$1000 Pizza

Oh yes - there was a story on the news this morning about a new "pizzeria" on 2nd Ave in NYC called Belissima that is offering a new pie that costs $1000. It has creme fraiche, lobster, etc etc. They interviewed the owner who said he thought it was "worth it."
Yeah like worth it for the jerks who buy it... (while people all over the world are starving..."Let them eat cake/pizza....")

I think I saw on tv once that there was a place that had a $1000 ice cream sundae as well. It had like gold leaf on it I think. They interviewed someone who got one and they were talking about how it was worth it. I was like you and thought how crazy it is that probably 100 feet from where they ate that there was probably someone who was starving.

Let's suppose that the "jerk" that orders the $1000.00 pizza also does a lot more than most with charitable donations. Is he still a jerk?

Or you spend a lot of money on a car. Or a home. Or a stereo system. That makes you a jerk because you are not giving that money to starving people?

NYNM, weren't you just talking about fancy, high-end breakfasts on another thread? If you ate a more basic breakfast, you could probably donate the difference to those that are starving.

I'm just sorta reporting on (a segment of) the NY food scene here...
I think the pizza thing is basically a ploy to get publicity, but there are enough crazy people in NYC to actually order the food for bragging rights....Sometimes its just kind of humorous but sometimes it seems immoral....

quote:

Originally posted by saps

Let's suppose that the "jerk" that orders the $1000.00 pizza also does a lot more than most with charitable donations. Is he still a jerk?

Or you spend a lot of money on a car. Or a home. Or a stereo system. That makes you a jerk because you are not giving that money to starving people?

NYNM, weren't you just talking about fancy, high-end breakfasts on another thread? If you ate a more basic breakfast, you could probably donate the difference to those that are starving.

You might get a considered response if you posed your question as a question rather than as a diatribe. More flies with sugar, and so forth.

Yeah, you're probably right.

when you buy a $1000 stereo or $10,000 stereo, you're getting that amount's worth of equipment. When you see someone's $1000 stereo or $10,000 stereo, it's clear why the stereo was $1000 or $10,000. I don't think a pizza could really have a $1000 value. That's where the wastefulness of spending such an absurd amount of money on a pizza, seems so...well...absurd. It's not that the pizza is simply expensive, it's that the pizza is expensive for the sake of being expensive. It's like the $100 hot dog. It's not worth a $100 - even if some shmuck, or a group of schmucks pay that amount. Just because I sell a hotdog or pizza or other such item for an absurd amount of money, doesn't mean it's worth that much and it doesn't mean that it's moral to charge, or pay that much for something that simply shouldn't cost that much. That's wastefulness and that's the sin when one pays $100 for a hotdog, or $1000 for one pizza (or $40 million for an exclusive school for only 125 kids - but that's another story)

sometimes after another disapointing california pizza that advertises itselfas `real eastcoast pizza' I might be tempted to pay 1000 for a godd piece of maruca's pizza from seaside heights new jersey

quote:

Originally posted by hosseini

sometimes after another disapointing california pizza that advertises itselfas `real eastcoast pizza' I might be tempted to pay 1000 for a godd piece of maruca's pizza from seaside heights new jersey

LOL. You should find out if they'll FedEx it to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

when you buy a $1000 stereo or $10,000 stereo, you're getting that amount's worth of equipment. When you see someone's $1000 stereo or $10,000 stereo, it's clear why the stereo was $1000 or $10,000. I don't think a pizza could really have a $1000 value. That's where the wastefulness of spending such an absurd amount of money on a pizza, seems so...well...absurd. It's not that the pizza is simply expensive, it's that the pizza is expensive for the sake of being expensive. It's like the $100 hot dog. It's not worth a $100 - even if some shmuck, or a group of schmucks pay that amount. Just because I sell a hotdog or pizza or other such item for an absurd amount of money, doesn't mean it's worth that much and it doesn't mean that it's moral to charge, or pay that much for something that simply shouldn't cost that much. That's wastefulness and that's the sin when one pays $100 for a hotdog, or $1000 for one pizza (or $40 million for an exclusive school for only 125 kids - but that's another story)

Value is only the subjective worth that you assign to it. If I spend $1000.00 dollars to swim with dolphins, I'm not purchasing anything tangible-I'm paying what I think is the value of the experience. After I've actually done it, I may say that I would have paid twice that amount for it. Someone else may think that the value of that experience is $0.00. They don't do it. Neither person is wrong.

Same for people that pay for concert tickets as well.

Is the difference between a $1000.00 stereo and a $10,000.00 stereo based solely on the cost of it's components? I doubt it. There is extra profit added into the brand and the luxury and the market that the 10,000.00 dollar stereo reaches.

Your need for better sound is the value that you assign to the unit. Between a $1000.00 stereo and and a $10,000 dollar stereo, does the sound value per $$ increase that much? Your $10,000 dollar stereo probably isn't that much different from the $1000.00 pizza. They are both luxury items.

The big difference is that a pizza is perishable, and a stereo isn't. You can resell a stereo in a month. But someone who isn't an audiophile may assign more value to a $1000.00 pizza than they would to a $10,000 stereo.

Don't confuse value with price.

quote:

Originally posted by saps

Value is only the subjective worth that you assign to it.

If I spend $1000.00 dollars to swim with dolphins, I'm not purchasing anything tangible-I'm paying what I think is the value of the experience.

neither of these statements are true.

Value in economics is the market worth or estimated worth of commodities, services, assets, or work. Therefore, the price of your dolphin swim isn't what you would be willing pay to swim with the dolphins, or what I would be willing pay to swim with the dolphins. The price should be based on the value of the market worth or estimated worth of the service.

People overpay (and underpay) for things all the time. It doesn't mean the product, perishable or not, is appropriately priced. When things are egregiously over priced, I think it's fair to make a moral judgement on the seller, and buyer.

I don’t have a problem with people judging other peoples behavior, as long as they first lead by example. When it comes to money there are very few people who are totally selfless, so it’s hard to listen to anyone make these sorts of judgments. I’ve caught myself doing it, being outraged by people spending on this that and the other thing. But you only have to look as far as some of the photos I’ve posted on this site to see I “over spend” on food. Lets face it, throwing cognac on a grill to make flaming fajitas is not exactly frugal.

quote:

Originally posted by Theedge

I don’t have a problem with people judging other peoples behavior, as long as they first lead by example. When it comes to money there are very few people who are totally selfless, so it’s hard to listen to anyone make these sorts of judgments.

that's a cop-out. A small amount of selflessness like flaming a dash of cognac into your fajita is a far cry from wasting $1000 for a pizza that MIGHT be worth $100. Don't let your small amount of self-indulgence blind you into thinking that shameful acts of wastefulness is not subject to condemnation.

The issue I'm discussing isn't a little sin vs. a bigger sin. (and by "sin" I don't mean a sin in God's eye, I mean a sin against humanity. ) I'm discussing apathy and carelessness. To say that it is ok to spend $1000 on a pizza because it has some lobster on it just because someone HAS the $1000 shows an apathy for man and the common good. Ignoring common sense, which tells you that the value of the pizza might be $100, or even $200, while spending 5 to 10 times the value is careless.

If we are all so afraid to make judgements on things that are clearly wrong simply because we've made mistakes of our own, then we will never truely correct our own errors. Rather we will not only let others continue to make the same mistakes, but we will pardon those mistakes and any later mistakes.

There is a time and place to say "that is wrong" "that is wasteful" "that is immoral." Just because one has been wrong, wasteful or immoral in the past doesn't mean one shouldn't comment on things that are wrong, wastful and immoral. We tell kids that we learn from our mistakes, but then we say to adults that because we make mistakes we can't call out the mistakes of others. That is illogical. If we learn from our mistakes as kids, then we learn from our mistakes as adults. And it is our moral obligation to speak out when wrongs occurs.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

quote:

Originally posted by Theedge

I don’t have a problem with people judging other peoples behavior, as long as they first lead by example. When it comes to money there are very few people who are totally selfless, so it’s hard to listen to anyone make these sorts of judgments.

that's a cop-out. A small amount of selflessness like flaming a dash of cognac is a far cry from wasting $1000 for a pizza that MIGHT be worth $100.

And who says a $1000 pizza isn't a small amount of selflessness?

Maybe I worked hard and I own a large company and employ hundreds of people which supports the local community and economy. In relative terms the $1000 pizza is a small selflessness.

Is a $1000 pizza ridiculous. To some yes to others no.

How many people here drive an SUV? Is that a small amount of selflessness? At the price they cost and the environmental impact they make that is an extremely selfish act. But it's considered acceptable because so many people do it.

It's a pizza. It cost's $1000. You either think it's worth it or not. But don't make these broad judgments on how moral or immoral it is to pay that amount for food until you look at all the decisions you've made in life that impact others.

quote:

Originally posted by pdxyyz

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

quote:

Originally posted by Theedge

I don’t have a problem with people judging other peoples behavior, as long as they first lead by example. When it comes to money there are very few people who are totally selfless, so it’s hard to listen to anyone make these sorts of judgments.

that's a cop-out. A small amount of selflessness like flaming a dash of cognac is a far cry from wasting $1000 for a pizza that MIGHT be worth $100.

And who says a $1000 pizza isn't a small amount of selflessness?

Maybe I worked hard and I own a large company and employ hundreds of people which supports the local community and economy. In relative terms the $1000 pizza is a small selflessness.

Is a $1000 pizza ridiculous. To some yes to others no.

How many people here drive an SUV? Is that a small amount of selflessness? At the price they cost and the environmental impact they make that is an extremely selfish act. But it's considered acceptable because so many people do it.

It's a pizza. It cost's $1000. You either think it's worth it or not. But don't make these broad judgments on how moral or immoral it is to pay that amount for food until you look at all the decisions you've made in life that impact others.

if the pizza has a true market value of $1000, then it's not a problem. But the toppings for the $1000 pizza that was mentioned was creme fraiche and lobster. It would take an AWFUL LOT of lobster to make a $1000 pizza. even in NYC.

I get the sense from NYNM's post that the pizza's value is not nearly the $1000 price tag it comes with.

you guys throw around value and worth like it's a personal preference. When I'm online talking about value and worth, I'm talking about economic value and worth, not my personal attitude toward what satisfaction I get or don't get out of a product, service or commodity.

I'm told I'm confusing value and worth with price. In fact, I'm relating worth and value to price. What I'm not doing is confusing personal preference with the value and worth of a product.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader
if the pizza has a true market value of $1000, then it's not a problem. But the toppings for the $1000 pizza that was mentioned was creme fraiche and lobster. It would take an AWFUL LOT of lobster to make a $1000 pizza. even in NYC.

FWIW, it's also got caviar on it. If you're concerned about the true value of the pizza, then a little caviar goes a looooong way.

well, a little bit of sturgeon roe, admittedly, can be $$$.

Of course, I don't know if it's wasteful to put caviar on pizza or not, since I've never done it. But, it seems like a waste. Just like people figured out years ago that it was a waste to have caviar as an ingredient in Russian Dressing - which is why caviar is no longer in russian dressing. (or at least one reason why it's no longer there)

Some folks from my favorie food blog, NY Magazine's Grub Street, have a report on this silly thing:

http://nymag.com/daily/food/2007/03/1000_pizza_brilliant_or_just_a.html?gs-recent

Would it tatse better with a $500.00 beer?

from the article, it "tasted something like a bagel with lox and cream cheese."

for $1000, I really wouldn't want it to taste like any other item I could get for less money.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

if the pizza has a true market value of $1000, then it's not a problem. But the toppings for the $1000 pizza that was mentioned was creme fraiche and lobster. It would take an AWFUL LOT of lobster to make a $1000 pizza. even in NYC.

I get the sense from NYNM's post that the pizza's value is not nearly the $1000 price tag it comes with.

you guys throw around value and worth like it's a personal preference. When I'm online talking about value and worth, I'm talking about economic value and worth, not my personal attitude toward what satisfaction I get or don't get out of a product, service or commodity.

I'm told I'm confusing value and worth with price. In fact, I'm relating worth and value to price. What I'm not doing is confusing personal preference with the value and worth of a product.

There are several different definitions and theories of value within economics. One can easily say that the personal preference that one has of a product is how an individual assigns a value to it. Value, from an individual standpoint, is definitely tied to personal preference.

I can only see ethical or moral issues rising in the case of commodities in a monopolistic environment. If someone wants to buy a $1000.00 pizza, and they feel that that is worth it, it's really no one elses place to determine what that pizza is worth that to that individual. There is no ethical or moral dilemma there. And if the market will bear $1000.00 pizzas, then that's the market value of the pizza. Anyone's decision to judge those buying that pizza is simply exercising his or her subjective opinion based upon personal preference and economic feasibility of making such a purchase. There are no ethical or moral issues here, but some may construe it as a symptom of such.

In my opinion,it's obscene to waste $1000 on something frivolous as a pizza...

quote:

Originally posted by saps

quote:

I can only see ethical or moral issues rising in the case of commodities in a monopolistic environment. If someone wants to buy a $1000.00 pizza, and they feel that that is worth it, it's really no one elses place to determine what that pizza is worth that to that individual. There is no ethical or moral dilemma there. And if the market will bear $1000.00 pizzas, then that's the market value of the pizza. Anyone's decision to judge those buying that pizza is simply exercising his or her subjective opinion based upon personal preference and economic feasibility of making such a purchase. There are no ethical or moral issues here, but some may construe it as a symptom of such.

that's where you and I differ. Just because someone is willing to pay an egregiously overinflated price just because they can afford it, doesn't make it right.

"Anyone's decision to judge those buying that pizza is simply exercising his or her subjective opinion based upon personal preference and economic feasibility of making such a purchase."

Look, I was initially under the presumption that the pizza was not worth (because of its ingredients) $1000. With caviar as an ingredient, certainly the market value on the pizza could near $1000 with the right kind of caviar.

When speaking of buying for $1000 a pizza that is worth $100, that's completely false. personal economic feasability has nothing to do with it. Neither does personal preference. Apparently you didn't really read my above responses.

" it's really no one elses place to determine what that pizza is worth that to that individual. "

No one is determining the worth to that person. What is being discussed is what it's worth to society as a whole. Just because the person WANTS to waste his money (on anything that is egregiously overpriced), and has the right to waste his money, doesn't mean it's moral or ethical to do so.

WANTS and RIGHTS are not the same concepts as MORALS and ETHICS.

I just want to be clear, that I'/m not against someone spending $1000 for ANYTHING as long as the anything is actually worth $1000. A Caviar topped pizza could weigh in at $1000. Great. Eat, enjoy.
The original ingredients we were told was lobster and creme fraiche, which clearly couldn't possibly reach the value of $1000 on a 9" pizza.

I believe scalping is unethical. I have lots of facts regarding business practices and such to back my beliefs up. There are laws in states that agree with that belief. If you sell something for $1000 that is worth 10-20% of that value, it is equivlant to scalping. And it's wrong.

If the pizza has enough caviar to warrant a $1000 price tag, I have absolutely no objections.

I don't know where people here get to be the moral authority. You can say you wouldn't pay that much for it, but how do you say it's wrong or immoral?

Based on these standards isn't it immoral to eat in any one of the establishments mentioned on this website when people are starving.

Do you need a pork cutlet the size of your head (even if less than $1000) when we have refugee camps in Darfur?

Is anyone who eats more than 1500 calories a day immoral?

Are people who are overweight immoral?

Are people who live in a home with more bedrooms than occupants immoral? There are plenty of homeless people right here in the US?

Are people who have money in the bank immoral because they don't give it to those who don't have money?

quote:

Originally posted by pdxyyz

I don't know where people here get to be the moral authority. You can say you wouldn't pay that much for it, but how do you say it's wrong or immoral?

Based on these standards isn't it immoral to eat in any one of the establishments mentioned on this website when people are starving.

Do you need a pork cutlet the size of your head (even if less than $1000) when we have refugee camps in Darfur?

Is anyone who eats more than 1500 calories a day immoral?

Are people who are overweight immoral?

Are people who live in a home with more bedrooms than occupants immoral? There are plenty of homeless people right here in the US?

Are people who have money in the bank immoral because they don't give it to those who don't have money?

it's unethical to scalp products. That's the discussion. I haven't heard anyone say it's unethical to buy or sell anything at a fair market value.
Morals is another issue.

your questions, I take it, are rhetorical. But, at some point, some issues of apathy and ignorance will have to be addressed. The real rhetortical question is, when will people finally address it?

Everybody gave Dan Quayle crap for commenting on the current state and attitude of family values in the early-90's and he was shred apart because of it. But, when the moral fiber is picked apart and goes unquestioned because of an air of conventional wisdom that questions who has the right to be the moral authority, then that moral fiber has no chance of being repaired.

I'm not bible thumping. It's not a God issue. I could care less about anyone's religious beliefs. That's your own, I wouldn't step into that arena. It's a human issue. When do we stop saving the planet, the whales, the dogs and cats and start saving the people? If we think about what it takes to keep people living on the planet, our attitutdes about how we use the earth and its resources differently and the whales, cats and dogs and such will be saved.

as per your questions, only you can answer for yourself about your own morals. But, if you feel fat and are over-eating, then perhaps you are being gluttonous and should take a look at it.

If you sell a $20 pizza for $100, just because you can, then you're contributing to the persistance of thought that your actions are your own and only affect you in this time, and not others in a later time.

If you sell a $1000 pizza that is actually worth a $1000, then congratulations on finding a niche market.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

Everybody gave Dan Quayle crap for commenting on the current state and attitude of family values in the early-90's and he was shred apart because of it.

Sorry, but that's crap. Dan Quayle was shred apart because (among other reasons) he pointed to a sitcom that showed a single woman having a baby, and basically called it immoral. Aside from being hypocritical, it was stupid beyond belief. His actual quote:

"It doesn't help matters when primetime TV has Murphy Brown—a character who supposedly epitomizes today's intelligent, highly paid, professional woman—mocking the importance of fathers, by bearing a child alone, and calling it just another 'lifestyle choice.'"

quote:

Originally posted by hosseini

sometimes after another disapointing california pizza that advertises itselfas `real eastcoast pizza' I might be tempted to pay 1000 for a godd piece of maruca's pizza from seaside heights new jersey

Places out here advertising "real east coast pizza" are almost as silly as east coasters and former east coasters looking for it and thinking they're going to find it on the west coast.

NOTICE TO THOSE PEOPLE: This is the west coast. It is not now, has never been, nor ever will be the east coast. That's the way we natives like it. If we wanted east coast, we'd move there. Kind of like the way east coasters in their millions have moved out here.

Now, back to topic, I seem to recall a place out on Long Island selling a 1000 dollar hamburger some time in the recent past. Maybe it's a NY thing.

Quote: Places out here advertising "real east coast pizza" are almost as silly as east coasters and former east coasters looking for it and thinking they're going to find it on the west coast.


ah but there is always hope....into these wild pioneer lands may yet come pork roll, white castle,decent pizza, whole belly clams and other delicacies of true civilization....

Oh my goodness all this over a pizza. Them that has gets. them that don't eat a normally priced pizza!

quote:

Originally posted by hosseini


ah but there is always hope....into these wild pioneer lands may yet come pork roll, white castle,decent pizza, whole belly clams and other delicacies of true civilization....

Never will we accept the..... whaddaya call it, the thing you put around oxen....... the ox holding together thing of civilization! NEVER!