1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking

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eric/Jenn
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2013/10/16 21:40:38 (permalink)

1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking

Oh I was so excited and on a roll too. Purchased an old Tool truck 6.5 diesel engine ran good driving it home. I killed the batteries by accident and it hasn't started since. I got the inside all stripped out and was ready for the build of the walls but then this :(
 
I turn the key it just clicks now. not the starter though. It is a lighter softer click like under the dash panel. Gauges come up wipers come on but just clicks now? Its bad when it goes from running nice to not starting because of my forgetting to shut off the lift gate switch bah... any ideas?
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    Uncle Groucho
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/16 22:28:13 (permalink)
    Charge the batteries over night on a good charger, if you killed them than they are dead and need replacement.
    Post the model , how many batteries , this wont be that bad.
    Diesels need a lot of juice to get going but once they are hot they run and start like troopers.
    #2
    Rcoy
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/17 09:14:57 (permalink)
    eric/Jenn

    Oh I was so excited and on a roll too. Purchased an old Tool truck 6.5 diesel engine ran good driving it home. I killed the batteries by accident and it hasn't started since. I got the inside all stripped out and was ready for the build of the walls but then this :(

    I turn the key it just clicks now. not the starter though. It is a lighter softer click like under the dash panel. Gauges come up wipers come on but just clicks now? Its bad when it goes from running nice to not starting because of my forgetting to shut off the lift gate switch bah... any ideas?

    It could also be a bad connection at one of the battery terminals.
    #3
    Kokomo_Sno
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/18 19:30:53 (permalink)
    I 2nd what Groucho said. Charge it up and try again. You can have enough power to run a few accessories and still get a click. Diesels like juice and lots of it. Takes a lot to turn over a high compression engine.
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    fishscale28
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/19 00:10:51 (permalink)
    I have a very similar truck with the same powerplant (6.5).  I feel your pain...oh do I!!!
     
    Great start by getting the batteries fully charged/replaced.  These trucks are also known to have some problems with the ignition switch-which is mounted on the steering column towards the firewall.  Kind of a tricky spot to get into but might we worth checking.  You'll get all the dash lights, etc. going but no starter...Also the neutral safety switch might need to be looked at.
     
    These are even more sensitive to their grounds.  Double check them all and it would probably be a good idea to replace them.  Super sensitive to how things are grounded.  Make sure you are getting good contact from the block/transmission/batteries/computer/etc with the chassis.  Very important.  That was once of the biggest things I needed to straighten out before it started working right.  Once it does though you'll be a proud owner!
     
     
    #5
    Buck & Vi's
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/19 11:28:05 (permalink)
     one other thing if you have either 2or 4 six volt or 2 or 4 12 volt batt make sure to see if there in series or parallel
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    Rcoy
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/19 19:53:46 (permalink)
    It did run before he killed it, so hopefully the batteries are wired correctly, lots of potential for smoke if not, (And not the good kind!)
     
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    edwmax
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/19 22:32:14 (permalink)
    Clean the battery terminals and tighten. If you have a battery tester, check the battery charge.   Charge or replace if needed.  ... If there is still a clicking, then check the battery/starter solenoid.   it is either a weak current or bad solenoid.      I believe the solenoid is on the side of the starter.  The contact plates/ring are not hard to replace and about $5.    A starter shop can do this for you, but more money.
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    fishscale28
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/20 03:09:24 (permalink)
    Solenoid is on top os the starter. But clicking is said to come from under dash...which wouldn't be the starter solenoid. There's a small terminal point on the firewall (drivers side) that has a couple wires relating to the starting and charging system, both with fuses. When it rains a lot these get wet and sometimes cause hella problems with starting and running. Great area to clan, correct and secure while trouble shooting. Amongst batteries, grounds, ignition switch, etc
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    edwmax
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/20 06:26:02 (permalink)
    The clicking has to be from mechanical movement of something ... aka: a solenoid ... there could be a another solenoid at that location. (not sure why, but...)  or the starter solenoid might be echoing at that location.
    #10
    eric/Jenn
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/20 13:46:24 (permalink)
    Thank you all for the help and ideas. There are 2  12 volt batteries wired factory (not sure if its called parallel or series) but they are correct. The batteries I purchased brand new along with the all new terminals. All are good and tight. I went out and purchased one of those $200 chargers that deep cycle charge, regular charge and 200 amp start charge. Trying that now but thus far no luck. I have ground on the one battery and positive on the other, is this correct?
     
    The paperwork in the compartment when I bought the truck shows an ignition switch was replaced last year. The doo hicky thingy on the fire wall drivers side is what is clicking, wife turns the key that little tiny (looks like a solenoid like on the old ford trucks) clicks.
     
    I did take the batteries out and put one each into my other vehicles and they started right up. I cant imagine spending another $500 on 2 new batteries as the 30 days has expired blah. (but I will) Also definitely not the starter solenoid I had my wife turn the key while I was at the starter and nothing there at all.
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    edwmax
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/20 15:15:04 (permalink)
    First, you need to know what series & parallel is.     If a battery cable from one battery connects (negative) to directly to the positive of the other battery, then this is series; and you are cranking with 24 volts.   ...   Parallel connection is when the positive cables & negative cable, each,  connect to common points.  This is 12 volts.  
     
    Looking up the starter on the internet, the P30 Chevy starter is shown to be 12v.  So the batteries should be wired parallel.
     
    Now you can test the starter.   At the starter solenoid you will find a large battery cable connected.   Check the voltage to make sure it is 12 volt.  Then with a screw driver jump from the bat cable to the small wire connection.  The solenoid should close and the stater start cranking.  MAKE SURE THE TRUCK IS IN NEUTRAL AND BRAKES are LOCKED.   If the solenoid closes but the starter does not crank, the starter is bad.  If the solenoid clicks, then repair the solenoid.   ... In the solenoid are two brass contacts. These wear out and do not make good solid contact. You will hear a single click when the solenoid closes.   If you hear multiple (continuous) clicks, the solenoid need replacing.  http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_x_5220459-P_x_x?cm_mmc=ACQ-_-Google-_-GPLA-_-5220459&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=5220459&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw=&gclid=COb-5dyHproCFcuZ4AodgikAMQ#
     
    If the starter is cranking, go back and investigate the 'doo hicky thingy on the fire wall'.  It must have a small solenoid built in or be another solenoid.   Check and make sure all the connections are tight.    You should be able to test it the same way as the stater.  Locate th power lead and jump to the starter lead.
     
    It the batteries are full charged, you do not need the charger/booster to be connected.
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by edwmax - 2013/10/20 15:20:24
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    Rcoy
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/20 20:19:07 (permalink)
    Actually, if there is a bad connection in either the ground or positive side cable, the solenoid may still close but the voltage drop will prevent enough current from flowing to actually spin the starter motor. Most times but not all it will "chatter" @ the solenoid. I would like to hear what this gentleman's problem actually is/was.
    #13
    Tristan225
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/22 02:48:28 (permalink)
    A few points here can be grey areas. GM solenoids rarely fail anymore.   Make SURE the batteries are charged up all the way first. Make sure the battery connections (cables) are clean and TIGHT. Make sure the large battery cable connection on the starter is clean and tight and the terminal is not broken (wiggling loose) inside starter. Remove ground terminal at frame clean and re tighten. Pretty much in this order.  From your description we are not sure both batteries are used to crank the engine. Myself I would have the battery (ies) tested since they (one) may be defective. I suppose what works on your car may not work on the larger engine in the truck (small chance, but possible).  
    edwmax

    First, you need to know what series & parallel is.     If a battery cable from one battery connects (negative) to directly to the positive of the other battery, then this is series; and you are cranking with 24 volts.   ...   Parallel connection is when the positive cables & negative cable, each,  connect to common points.  This is 12 volts.  

    Looking up the starter on the internet, the P30 Chevy starter is shown to be 12v.  So the batteries should be wired parallel.

    Now you can test the starter.   At the starter solenoid you will find a large battery cable connected.   Check the voltage to make sure it is 12 volt.  Then with a screw driver jump from the bat cable to the small wire connection.  The solenoid should close and the stater start cranking.  MAKE SURE THE TRUCK IS IN NEUTRAL AND BRAKES are LOCKED.   If the solenoid closes but the starter does not crank, the starter is bad.  If the solenoid clicks, then repair the solenoid.   ... In the solenoid are two brass contacts. These wear out and do not make good solid contact. You will hear a single click when the solenoid closes.   If you hear multiple (continuous) clicks, the solenoid need replacing.  http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_x_5220459-P_x_x?cm_mmc=ACQ-_-Google-_-GPLA-_-5220459&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=5220459&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw=&gclid=COb-5dyHproCFcuZ4AodgikAMQ#

    If the starter is cranking, go back and investigate the 'doo hicky thingy on the fire wall'.  It must have a small solenoid built in or be another solenoid.   Check and make sure all the connections are tight.    You should be able to test it the same way as the stater.  Locate th power lead and jump to the starter lead.

    It the batteries are full charged, you do not need the charger/booster to be connected.







    #14
    BelCibo
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/22 12:17:33 (permalink)
    The solenoid you found clicking may be your glow plugs.  I would check a couple other things:
     
    1)  Crawl under and  make sure the positive battery line at the starter has 12v on it when the ignition is turned to the crank position.
     
    2) Put a volt meter on the starter solenoid wire ( little one that is not grounded to the starter case) and see if it goes to 12V when the key is turned to the crank position.  If there is not voltage there then you will need to trace the wiring from the started switch to the solenoid until you find what has failed.  
     
    3) A quick test of the starter is to short from the positive cable on the starter to the solenoid wire with a screwdriver.  If the starter cranks over you will know the batteries, solenoid and starter are good.  This assumes you have enough room to short it out safely.  You can also pull the starter off and test in on the ground using the same method using jumper cables. 
     
    I would suspect your solenoid wire is not getting 12v to trigger the starter.  Cranking with a low battery can also mess up a perfectly good starter.  If you don't feel comfortable doing these things you'll need to have a mechanic check it out for you.
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    edwmax
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/22 22:00:28 (permalink)
    BelCibo

    The solenoid you found clicking may be your glow plugs.  I would check a couple other things:

    1)  Crawl under and  make sure the positive battery line at the starter has 12v on it when the ignition is turned to the crank position.    ....

    This cable goes to the positive Battery terminal. There should be voltage on it at ALL times whether the ignition is turner or not.
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    Rcoy
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/22 22:15:07 (permalink)
    edwmax

    BelCibo

    The solenoid you found clicking may be your glow plugs.  I would check a couple other things:

    1)  Crawl under and  make sure the positive battery line at the starter has 12v on it when the ignition is turned to the crank position.    ....

    This cable goes to the positive Battery terminal. There should be voltage on it at ALL times whether the ignition is turner or not.

     
    Yes, but if there is 12+v at rest and less ( >10.5-11 ) when cranking you know there is an issue with the cabling or battery
    #17
    edwmax
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/10/23 04:27:34 (permalink)
    Rcoy

    edwmax

    BelCibo

    The solenoid you found clicking may be your glow plugs.  I would check a couple other things:

    1)  Crawl under and  make sure the positive battery line at the starter has 12v on it when the ignition is turned to the crank position.    ....

    This cable goes to the positive Battery terminal. There should be voltage on it at ALL times whether the ignition is turner or not.


    Yes, but if there is 12+v at rest and less ( >10.5-11 ) when cranking you know there is an issue with the cabling or battery

     
    He'll also know that with a battery tester (load test as instructed above; and when he moved the batteries to another vehicle as he stated above. ... When cranking, a good battery, the voltage will drop to approx. 10 or 11 volts.  Depending on the engine,  it may still crank if the voltage drops to 8 or 9 volts (bad battery with dead cell).
    #18
    BelCibo
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    Re:1990 food truck build Grumman Olson P 30 dead stand still clicking 2013/11/11 08:19:24 (permalink)
    What was the fix?
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