Hot!1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build

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reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/04 18:24:28 (permalink)
Just got the information from tech support regarding the inverter and battery bank setup.
 
I will need (6) "T-105" 6 Volt 225 Amp Hour Deep Cycle Golf Cart Batteries.
Putting my amp hours at 1350 allowing me to be able to pull the full 8000 watts at 666 amp hours.
 
In order to achieve the 12V necessary to operate the  8000 Watt inverter I will need to hook up the battery's series parallel meaning running 3 sets of 2.
 
Meaning I will need to connect the 3 sets of batteries somehow such as a terminal block or similar so that they are all as one.  From that terminal block you can run 4 200 amp fuses to each input to the inverter using 4awg wire (inverter has 4 separate inputs).
 
Basically the 3 set of battery banks need to be connected 3 into 1 and then the 4 inputs to the inverter need to be fused.
 
Charger:
The charger I will need is a smart charger and the Amp out will be determined on how long it will be on to replenish the battery for what you have taken out of it but not to exceed the 25% back into it.
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Based on the above, I need to only fuse the positive to the inverter correct?
Dr of BBQ
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/04 19:21:28 (permalink)
I can't answer your question but I assume your going to do this correct? If so, your going to be the mad scientist that answers a BOAT LOAD of questions for a lot of people. And that's very cool. 
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/04 19:40:25 (permalink)
Dr of BBQ

I can't answer your question but I assume your going to do this correct? If so, your going to be the mad scientist that answers a BOAT LOAD of questions for a lot of people. And that's very cool. 

 
Yup, no turning back, I already ordered the $700 inverter. Trying to find a local place to buy the batteries so I can avoid the shipping charge.
 
Dr of BBQ
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/04 19:56:41 (permalink)
Good for you and good luck.
 
In some areas Sam's Club carries golf cart batteries but I'm not sure of the brand/quality.
Uncle Groucho
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/04 20:24:31 (permalink)
Hello Reese I work next to and have done lots of business with Swiftindustrialpower.com check their locations. I can only vouche for the one in Louisville, as I said they are my work neighbors, I know a LOT of houseboat owners  in the area and we turn them on to SWIP, I have seen MANY industrial batteries come and go, they are heavy suckers. Good luck.
OurCoffeeTruck
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/04 20:33:49 (permalink)
Ok so how long can you run pulling a constant 8000 volts before having to recharge? And how are you going to recharge the batteries should you run out during an event?
OurCoffeeTruck
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/04 20:35:51 (permalink)
Sorry for my lack of electrical knowledge. I'm learning as I go.
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/04 20:48:30 (permalink)
OurCoffeeTruck

Ok so how long can you run pulling a constant 8000 volts before having to recharge? And how are you going to recharge the batteries should you run out during an event?

 
I will not be pulling the full 8000 Watts. My system will use about 4K Watts max and that is if everything is on and AC which is the biggest draw will be off unless really hot outside. I over sized the inverter and battery bank so I would always only use 50% max. I will buy a big enough smart charger to charge overnight.
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/04 20:49:02 (permalink)
Uncle Groucho

Hello Reese I work next to and have done lots of business with Swiftindustrialpower.com check their locations. I can only vouche for the one in Louisville, as I said they are my work neighbors, I know a LOT of houseboat owners  in the area and we turn them on to SWIP, I have seen MANY industrial batteries come and go, they are heavy suckers. Good luck.

 
I will look them up, thanks.
Dr of BBQ
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/04 22:46:08 (permalink)
reese77 I will not be pulling the full 8000 Watts. My system will use about 4K Watts max and that is if everything is on and AC which is the biggest draw will be off unless really hot outside. I over sized the inverter and battery bank so I would always only use 50% max. I will buy a big enough smart charger to charge overnight.

 

edwmax
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/05 04:59:09 (permalink)
reese77

Just got the information from tech support regarding the inverter and battery bank setup.

I will need (6) "T-105" 6 Volt 225 Amp Hour Deep Cycle Golf Cart Batteries.
Putting my amp hours at 1350 allowing me to be able to pull the full 8000 watts at 666 amp hours.
  ...


 
amp-hour = 1 amp for 1 hour  ... 6 batteries @225 AHr =1350 AHr
Inverter: 8000 watt @ 120 volt (output)= 800 watt @ 12 volt (input) = 66.67 amps
 
service time: 1350 AHr / 66.67 amps = 20.25 hr
Efficiencies of the system was neglected, so I think your actual operating time will be about 12 to 15 hours (at full load), 60% to 75% efficiency.
post edited by edwmax - 2012/09/05 05:57:00
edwmax
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/05 05:53:36 (permalink)
Correction,   connecting 2 batteries in series to increase voltage does not increase AHr.   Therefore, two 6 volt batteries @ 225 AHr connected for 12 volts is still 225 AHR.    .... 6 batteries wired for 12 volt results in equivalent three 12 volt batteries @ 225 AHr.
 
redoing the calcs:
3 batteries @225 AHr =675 AHr
Inverter: 8000 watt @ 120 volt (output)= 800 watt @ 12 volt (input) = 66.67 amps   ... (Is 8000 watts the calculated load? Has efficiency losses been included?)
 
service time: 675 AHr / 66.67 amps = 10.12 hr
Efficiencies of the system was neglected, so I think your actual operating time will be about 6 to 7 1/2 hours (at full load), 60% to 75% efficiency of inverter, wiring, & motors.
 
Note efficiency of the battery is accounted for in its AHr rating. Which is 20 hours  of 100% loading or approx. 80% of battery capacity.     ... The above system will be depleted at 10.12 hours (80% discharge), At which time the batteries needs recharging.
 
*** my 2 cents and exercise for myself to understand.
post edited by edwmax - 2012/09/05 06:45:43
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/05 08:56:14 (permalink)
edwmax

Correction,   connecting 2 batteries in series to increase voltage does not increase AHr.   Therefore, two 6 volt batteries @ 225 AHr connected for 12 volts is still 225 AHR.    .... 6 batteries wired for 12 volt results in equivalent three 12 volt batteries @ 225 AHr.

redoing the calcs:
3 batteries @225 AHr =675 AHr
Inverter: 8000 watt @ 120 volt (output)= 800 watt @ 12 volt (input) = 66.67 amps   ... (Is 8000 watts the calculated load? Has efficiency losses been included?)

service time: 675 AHr / 66.67 amps = 10.12 hr
Efficiencies of the system was neglected, so I think your actual operating time will be about 6 to 7 1/2 hours (at full load), 60% to 75% efficiency of inverter, wiring, & motors.

Note efficiency of the battery is accounted for in its AHr rating. Which is 20 hours  of 100% loading or approx. 80% of battery capacity.     ... The above system will be depleted at 10.12 hours (80% discharge), At which time the batteries needs recharging.

*** my 2 cents and exercise for myself to understand.

 
The batteries will be run in series parallel. Check out this tool.
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/05 09:41:40 (permalink)
Here is the on-board battery bank smart auto charger I will be using.

 

edwmax
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/05 11:21:01 (permalink)
reese77

edwmax

Correction,   connecting 2 batteries in series to increase voltage does not increase AHr.   Therefore, two 6 volt batteries @ 225 AHr connected for 12 volts is still 225 AHR.    .... 6 batteries wired for 12 volt results in equivalent three 12 volt batteries @ 225 AHr.

redoing the calcs:
3 batteries @225 AHr =675 AHr
Inverter: 8000 watt @ 120 volt (output)= 800 watt @ 12 volt (input) = 66.67 amps   ... (Is 8000 watts the calculated load? Has efficiency losses been included?)

service time: 675 AHr / 66.67 amps = 10.12 hr
Efficiencies of the system was neglected, so I think your actual operating time will be about 6 to 7 1/2 hours (at full load), 60% to 75% efficiency of inverter, wiring, & motors.

Note efficiency of the battery is accounted for in its AHr rating. Which is 20 hours  of 100% loading or approx. 80% of battery capacity.     ... The above system will be depleted at 10.12 hours (80% discharge), At which time the batteries needs recharging.

*** my 2 cents and exercise for myself to understand.


The batteries will be run in series parallel. Check out this tool.

2 (6 v) batteries are wire in series for 12 volt output.  Then the 3 sets (pairs) are wired parallel to the inverter as shown by the charging diagram.   .... I know that ...
edwmax
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/05 11:40:43 (permalink)
The Gen3 charger is rated at 30 amp.   Power in (charging) = power out (used)
 
From calcs above  and power usages stated the battery bank would be depleted at 10.12 hrs.
 675 AHr/ 30amp = 22 1/2 hours charging time.
 
I think you need 2 or 3 chargers or a bigger one.  2 chargers same size as shown = 11 1/4 hrs; 3 chargers = 7 1/2 hrs;  to charge 675 AHr
 
Granted I realize not all the equipment will not run at the same  and power usage is not always at the max 66.7 amps, but I think if your were working during the day and charging the battery bank at night, then the recharge  needs to be less than 10 hours. 
post edited by edwmax - 2012/09/05 15:46:00
THE WILD DOG
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/05 15:18:20 (permalink)
http://www.batteriesplus.com/ ( right in your town )  This is where I am getting my batteries ( $155 a piece ) 255ah 6vs  
 
You're going to need a better charger, You want the most bang for your charge, the bigger the amp charge the less time you waste charging.  Unless you go solar.  Talk to the battery plus ppl, that is what they do best, they design these types of systems
post edited by THE WILD DOG - 2012/09/05 15:19:24
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 00:44:41 (permalink)
THE WILD DOG

http://www.batteriesplus.com/ ( right in your town )  This is where I am getting my batteries ( $155 a piece ) 255ah 6vs  

You're going to need a better charger, You want the most bang for your charge, the bigger the amp charge the less time you waste charging.  Unless you go solar.  Talk to the battery plus ppl, that is what they do best, they design these types of systems

 
Yes, I spoke with the guy at Batteries Plus and I need to search for a bigger charger.
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 00:46:28 (permalink)
Purchased batteries, $81.99 +30 core fee so $111.99ea @ Batteries Plus. (6) 6V 225Ah

These bastards are heavy as crap! 

 

post edited by reese77 - 2012/09/06 00:48:55
downtowne
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 01:04:42 (permalink)
Hey there, just a quick question for you, I was sent to this site by a friend of mine who's building a food truck up here in Victoria regarding the battery bank your building, she wanted to do something similar to power up her truck and was hoping to be self contained and seemed to think your setup was conducive to what she wanted. After reviewing your calculations, though, I have some concerns about your design. Basic electrical calculations says power in equals power out in a n equal but inverse relationship - ie as volts go down amps go up, power remains constant. According to your numbers, 8000 watts at 120 volt requires 66.7 amps. This would mean at 12 volts, you would require 667 amps, not the 66.7 shown in the calculations, resulting in a battery life of 1.2 hours at 8000 watts. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you might need to revisit your calculations
THE WILD DOG
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 01:27:56 (permalink)
@ DT nope your calcs are wrong. 675amp hours x your amp requirements (66.X)= your total run time till discharge, now you don't want to discharge if you can help it as it will kill your batteries.  Which would be 10.x hours. not 1 hours. 
THE WILD DOG
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 01:28:44 (permalink)
@ reese, you will want to look into the car battery chargers that come on their own dolly's  these are 300-500 amp chargers and they run about 500$+
THE WILD DOG
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 01:30:00 (permalink)
four stacked in a square 21" x 21" 
THE WILD DOG
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 01:32:50 (permalink)
oh and use O gauge wires for all your wiring or you can blow your equipment and batteries. The less the gauge the better voltage you will get.
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 01:34:06 (permalink)
downtowne

Hey there, just a quick question for you, I was sent to this site by a friend of mine who's building a food truck up here in Victoria regarding the battery bank your building, she wanted to do something similar to power up her truck and was hoping to be self contained and seemed to think your setup was conducive to what she wanted. After reviewing your calculations, though, I have some concerns about your design. Basic electrical calculations says power in equals power out in a n equal but inverse relationship - ie as volts go down amps go up, power remains constant. According to your numbers, 8000 watts at 120 volt requires 66.7 amps. This would mean at 12 volts, you would require 667 amps, not the 66.7 shown in the calculations, resulting in a battery life of 1.2 hours at 8000 watts. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you might need to revisit your calculations

 
Downtowne,
 
I'm no electrical expert as you can tell, I am just going to the advice/suggested setup provided by the tech support company that manufactures the 8000Watt inverter that I purchased. I am still learning.
Below is their reply. The total watts for all my electrical equipment is 3426.
 
"If you are pulling the full 8000 watts you will be pulling 666 amp hours. You don’t want to pull more than 50% of what a battery can put out and don’t want to put more than 25% back into it. That being said you will need 6 of those battery's putting your amp hours at 1350 allowing you to be able to pull the full 8000 watts at 666 amp hours.   In order to achieve the 12V necessary to operate that inverter you will need to hook up the battery's series parallel meaning running 3 sets of 2."
 
I need to go over the numbers further.
downtowne
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 02:02:03 (permalink)
The important thing to remember here is that the change in voltage will result in a change of amperage, the 66.7 amps is the draw on the 120 volt side of the inverter, on the 12 volt side ( the battery side) the amp draw is 667. The technical support guy has said as much in his thread, but he has not outlined how long they will operate the inverter for, just that they will. Also remember when you put a battery in series, you are only doubling the voltage, not the amperage, if the batteries go in parallel then you double the amperage. So if you put your 6 batteries in a series- parallel output (2 batteries each in series, those 3 sets in parallel) the total output of those batteries will now be 12 volts, 675 Amp- hours, not the 1350 he said.
Uncle Groucho
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 20:22:38 (permalink)
Hello Reese, nice batteries. When I build Battery trays and boxes I coat them with Herculiner truck bed coatings, Or its equal. Batteries give of gases that will quickly corrode any kind of metal, especially black iron. If you have the means to, it is best to hot solder and shrink wrap the ends of your 0 or 00 batt cables, which you can buy at any good welding supply store, dont skimp on this step, those batteries have the power to blow a HOLE through your truck. Its also a good idea to look into a QUICK-RELEASE GROUND CABLE to kill the source of the juice , You now have the POWER, use it WISELY and SAFELY.
RodBangkok
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 20:49:25 (permalink)
Just a couple observations
go over your power numbers again
Make sure you have adequate ventilation especially during charging
Make sure you have easy access to check acid levels and specific gravity
Before you make frames and get all this installed, I would assemble all the components and test for life and charge times.  Like a bench test.  This could save you a lot of work in case something major needs to be changed.
In case you have not seen this here's link that may help:
http://marine-electronics.../battery_faq/b_faq.htm
Good luck take your time test as you go don't get in a rush to get everything in its final packed up state till you've worked out all the bugs.  
Uncle Groucho
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 20:58:01 (permalink)
I agree totally with Rods post Build your battery tray too last, gussets and bracing are essential , they are Heavy as you know and will want to Rock & Roll.Use a Never Seize or a good Marine grade grease on the Batt terminals.
OurCoffeeTruck
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 21:20:45 (permalink)
Wow there sure is a lot of good info being posted. And wish I had something more useful to add to this discussion. Lol. You guys are much smarter than I.
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