Hot!1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build

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edwmax
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 21:24:40 (permalink)
downtowne

  ... Basic electrical calculations says power in equals power out in a n equal but inverse relationship - ie as volts go down amps go up, power remains constant. According to your numbers, 8000 watts at 120 volt requires 66.7 amps. This would mean at 12 volts, you would require 667 amps, not the 66.7 shown in the calculations, resulting in a battery life of 1.2 hours at 8000 watts. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you might need to revisit your calculations

 
You are correct Dt,  ... I drop a 0 on the 12 volt side of the equation.    It should have been 8000 w instead of the 800.    .... 8000w / 12 v= 666.7 amp      ... The battery group as described will last a little more than an hour.
 
Noting the 3426 watts Reese now gives for total watts usage, he might get 3 to 4 hrs out of the 6 batteries.   ... Also, he will 100% deplete the usable AHr rating of the batteries which his tech support states should not be done.   ....    For info, 'deep cycle' batteries are rated for 80% depletion and the AHr rating that can be supplied for 20 hr.   After this point heavy use will damage the battery.
Uncle Groucho
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 21:32:34 (permalink)
I speak from years of experience in the sheet metal trade, But I still have too buy a good cup of COFFEE.......
 
edwmax
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 23:29:02 (permalink)
After doing a little more research, I think this battery setup at the loading stated may be dangerous.    ... The problem is at the prolong high amperage output, the batteries will overheat.     ... I think the manufacture's recommended steady discharge rate is 225/20 = 11.25 amp per battery or 3 X 11.25 = 34.5 amps for this group.   This is calc from the AHr rating.   ... Some battery manufactures indicate this in their FAQ.   For short periods of high amp discharge, over heating is not normally a problem.
 
A question to Powertron: What is the max. steady safe amp. output of the battery?
 
Another question for Powertron:  At high discharge rate, how will this effect the AHr rating of the battery?     ... At high discharge rate & higher operating temp, the AHr capacity will be less.
post edited by edwmax - 2012/09/06 23:30:17
THE WILD DOG
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/06 23:47:15 (permalink)
there is nothing wrong with the set up he is going with. I spoke with a company that is all they do, build battery banks. I spent 45 mins on the phone with a guy who designed my system while I was on the phone, his AH to run time is MORE than 4 hours. it's more like 22.  I use a battery system on my food trailer and it's a cheap marine battery and a 1200 watt inverter that runs for 30 days running a cash register, a neon sign and a refrigerator.
edwmax
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 06:15:58 (permalink)
Still good questions for the manufacture to verify the batteries are operating within safe design range.
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 10:11:47 (permalink)
Starting to regret my decision. I will ask Powertron about potential overheating. Once the inverter arrives today, I will wire up the batteries, fuses, etc. on my work table and plug my garage refrigerator and separate deep freezer into it and monitor the amps/volts/watts.
 
Can I use 4 gauge wire for all connections? I cannot find zero gauge as suggested?
THE WILD DOG
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 16:34:15 (permalink)
i wouldn't, auto parts stores have 0 gauge
the smaller the gauge the better supply you will get
THE WILD DOG
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 16:37:30 (permalink)
or 2 gauge
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 16:45:01 (permalink)
THE WILD DOG

i wouldn't, auto parts stores have 0 gauge
the smaller the gauge the better supply you will get

 
OK. I found some 0 gauge at a auto stereo store (expensive).
Uncle Groucho
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 17:21:34 (permalink)
How much was it a foot? It shouldnt be more than 2.50 a foot, I pay much less when I buy it in bulk.
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 17:25:25 (permalink)
Uncle Groucho

How much was it a foot? It shouldnt be more than 2.50 a foot, I pay much less when I buy it in bulk.

 
I overpaid, it is fancy transparent/colored cable for show cars, 7.50ft. I ran out on lunch break and was rushing. Called them and I can't take it back. I found that Home Depot has black 0 gauge much cheaper. I had tried 2 auto zones and Walmart auto section early in the morning before work and neither had zero gauge.
Uncle Groucho
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 17:38:48 (permalink)
Wow thats high check out weldingsupply.com just for a comparison. Also, add a couple inches for the cable length, not all batteries are the same dimensions and if you have to switch one out you wont have to make another cable.
 
Oh by the way, just FYI , when you buy battery cables, feel the coating on the cable, if it feels like rubber, that is the correct type to get, if it feels like plastic, it will get brittle and crack and you will have a possible short in your system.
 
post edited by Uncle Groucho - 2012/09/07 17:51:43
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 17:56:24 (permalink)
Uncle Groucho

Wow thats high check out weldingsupply.com just for a comparison. Also, add a couple inches for the cable length, not all batteries are the same dimensions and if you have to switch one out you wont have to make another cable.

Oh by the way, just FYI , when you buy battery cables, feel the coating on the cable, if it feels like rubber, that is the correct type to get, if it feels like plastic, it will get brittle and crack and you will have a possible short in your system.


 
OK, Will do. Thanks.
Dr of BBQ
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 18:28:06 (permalink)
Reese,
Don't get discouraged just go slow and find the best experts you can find. And if you get what you think is great advice from someone, call another expert and ask the same questions all over again to double check everything you just learned. We are pulling for you and want this thing to work perfectly.
jack
THE WILD DOG
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 18:32:24 (permalink)
anxiously waiting for your next post !    I know you'll be found. Our generator ran out of gas as our day ended today & had to put everything in the freezer for the drive home     (15 mins tops ) and man was it quiet. lol   Post pics too & make sure your batts are charged 100% before testing.
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 19:04:45 (permalink)
This inverter is huge.
 

 

 

edwmax
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 19:24:12 (permalink)
reese77

THE WILD DOG

i wouldn't, auto parts stores have 0 gauge
the smaller the gauge the better supply you will get


OK. I found some 0 gauge at a auto stereo store (expensive).

Slow down, your costing yourself money.   ... Hardware stores have 0 ga wire, as you have already found at Home Depot.   This is a stock item for them.  Much of your off-shelf supplies should be from a hardware stores.
 
I think the frig & freezer test will be just fine.   These appear to be within operational limits of the batteries at about 20 amp or less per battery.  (Golf carts limit the current draw on these batteries to 5 -8 amps; these will go 2 or 4 days without recharging)
 
...   I did a little search for overheating of batteries.  I found several RV'ers have attempted similar projects as yours and simply shorted out the battery plates and melted the cases.     ... This is why I suggested contacting the battery manufacture. From the above calcs and wattage  you gave (3426 w or 8000 w) the batteries will be operating at 10 or 20 Xs more than the 225 AHr rating of 11.25 amp.  ... i hate for you to lose these batts, when all it takes is a call or email to the manufacture to be sure
 
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 19:49:54 (permalink)
edwmax,
 
I sent them an email at powertronbattery@sbcglobal.net, I tried to call and got sales but could not get to a tech. I will let you know what they say.
OurCoffeeTruck
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 21:02:33 (permalink)
What exactly do you mean by "huge?" lol. What are the dimensions? And Do you have a rough price for what you think your system will cost you after all said and done?
For our truck being self contained, running the generator we will need for our power will cost more than ten thousand dollArs in fuel per year.. If we cAn swing a battery system that will keep us from running that thing, it will pay for itself very quickly.
OurCoffeeTruck
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 21:15:24 (permalink)
Also, did you pull building permits for your stuff or do you not have to have them? I'm afraid to ask my local office because they're such pain in the butts. I've. Been dealing with an inspector the past few months who has a power tripping vendetta against the GC and is making every sub do the most ridiculous things. So I REALLY don't want to have to deal with the morons.

Anyways just wondering what your experience was before i put my foot in my mouth with them.
marco226
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/07 21:18:08 (permalink)
Reese,
i agree with the Dr. take it slow and steady. i know an electical enginer i will show him what you are doing.
i do not know if he can help can't hurt to ask right?
BTM676
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/08 00:08:03 (permalink)
marco226

Reese,
i agree with the Dr. take it slow and steady. i know an electical enginer i will show him what you are doing.
i do not know if he can help can't hurt to ask right?


Hey marco. I'm next up to bat when it comes to electrical, inverters and batteries. Whats this guys number.
 
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/09 10:27:33 (permalink)
marco226

Reese,
i agree with the Dr. take it slow and steady. i know an electical enginer i will show him what you are doing.
i do not know if he can help can't hurt to ask right?

 
Cool, thanks.
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/09 10:33:38 (permalink)
OurCoffeeTruck

What exactly do you mean by "huge?" lol. What are the dimensions? And Do you have a rough price for what you think your system will cost you after all said and done?
For our truck being self contained, running the generator we will need for our power will cost more than ten thousand dollArs in fuel per year.. If we cAn swing a battery system that will keep us from running that thing, it will pay for itself very quickly.

 
Product size (L x W x H): 22.44” X 11” X 8.5”
 
Batteries - $700
Inverter - $730
Cables, distribution blocks, fuses, terminal connectors, shunt, battery cut off/isolation switch, etc - $250
 
I already have a Trimetric TM 2025-RV battery bank monitor that I purchased awhile ago for my solar panels, I will use this. I also had to purchase more square tubing and angle iron to build the battery bay.
 
I will try to wire up the bank as soon as I can find some 0 gauge terminal crimp style connectors before I go out of town for  business on Wednesday.
 

post edited by reese77 - 2012/09/09 10:57:37
Uncle Groucho
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/09 10:51:35 (permalink)
Hello Reese
That seems to be a reasonable investment, Good for you, I cant wait for the results.
Use a good Hammer Crimp Tool google it or look on youtube there are videos.
The hammer crimp tool should be around 20 bucks and the cable ends like Tweco brand should be around 2.50 each.
reese77
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/09 11:00:09 (permalink)
Uncle Groucho

Hello Reese
That seems to be a reasonable investment, Good for you, I cant wait for the results.
Use a good Hammer Crimp Tool google it or look on youtube there are videos.
The hammer crimp tool should be around 20 bucks and the cable ends like Tweco brand should be around 2.50 each.

 
Got it, thanks. Where can I find 0 gauge cable ends locally? I see 2 and 4 gauge but no zero. I tried Northern Tool, Home Depot and Auto Parts Stores. I will try Lowes today, they usually have way more items then HD.
Uncle Groucho
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/09 11:13:51 (permalink)
Look in the PhoneBook for Welding Supplies there should be a few, when you tell them the size say ought instead of 0, it will make you sound cool,
ought = 0
1/0 is bigger
2/0 is bigger yet and so on and so forth.
Let your Fingers Do The Walking. If you are still unsure PM me your zip code and I will take a look for you.
 
PS dont just smash the cable and ends with a hammer on the curb.
edwmax
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/09 11:28:37 (permalink)
Lowes usually carry welding supplies and cable ends & terminals.
Uncle Groucho
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/09 11:50:18 (permalink)
0 gauge is pretty big. Good luck. If they do have them, "If they look and feel like junk, they are." Thats a lot of current to use an inferior piece.
PurpleCheetah
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Re:1993 Chevrolet P30 Food Truck Build 2012/09/09 14:56:56 (permalink)
Reese what happen to the idea of using the 2 honda eu inverter generators?...... at the cost you are spending on this battery bank plus having to recharge and then having to possibly replace the batteries after so long it seems that the honda's would have been a better go..... I'm not an expert at all but those batteries can be recharged so many times then won't they go kaput then you need to replace batteries????? not to mention the wear and tear on the inverter after so long
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