Mosca


Of course. Within the system, it was negligence. But how many people had the chance to stop it, and didn't, from the guys who pushed the lift out, to Sullivan himself? The deck was stacked, he couldn't even save himself because he wasn't able to break from the system that told him to do as he was told. Do you really doubt that if he'd said it wasn't safe, he'd have suffered any repercussions?

If you're dead set in using Sullivan's death to prove that Kelly and Notre Dame are criminal, then it leads me to believe that you don't care about him.

I can't write about him without seeing parents and college kids walking on quads, thinking about the future. I can't think about it without thinking about my own daughter, or Joe's kids at Penn State, or my neighbor's son in Afghanistan, or our friends' son who was in the car when another teenager who thought he was invincible went speeding down the road and into a tree, killing a third teenager. Or my nephew who is going to be a senior in high school, and he's a good kid who I hope doesn't make any stupid mistakes and learns to stand up for himself.

Or, I could just say, I don't understand hate.

I'm not sure what this has to do with any hate, and I don't think that what occurred at Notre Dame (which could have occurred at any school) was criminal.  I never said as much.  However, even if I said that it were criminal, it wouldn't mean in any way, shape, or form that I didn't care about Declan Sullivan.  I don't see any connection there.  If his parents thought that what occurred was criminal, would it then mean that they (his parents) didn't care about him?  It was definitely negligent, and I can't understand why no one is being held accountable here.  The buck needs to stop with the person that runs the program, and that person is Brian Kelly.
 
What you are setting up here is that if this were to occur again, at the same school, or any other school,  then it would just be systemic and no one again should be held accountable?  All I'm saying is that these were extreme weather conditions, there was risk and foreseeable danger, no one did anything about it, and someone died because of someone else's inaction. 
 
If a drunk individual gets into a car and hits a kid and kills him, is it a systemic failure because the bar overserved him, the police weren't there to stop him, and the treatment program he was in prior didn't work, or is it the drunk person's responsibility because he made a choice to drive? 
 

joerogo

Thanks Joe, we needed that
 
And now back to college football
 
The LSU v Ore game was looking to be a great game to watch, unfortunately it will now be which team has enough players left to start. LSU down 2 starters and ORE down their key speedman for liking the weed a little too much
 
So much for a big game to start the season

Enough of this philosophical stuff already. Let's get this thread back to discussing foodball.
Penn State plays 7 Big 10 games this year- IN, IA Purdue, Northwestern, NB, OSU & WI. I think they have a good chance to go to the Big 10 Championship Game! 

And what do you give to the man who wants nothing?
 
Ask JoePa!
 

‘Captains Letters to Joe’ book now available to public

August 26, 2011 at 9:37 AM by PSU Sports News Feed · Leave a Comment  

UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. — At the 2010 State College Quarterback Club banquet, which traditionally honors the seniors from the football team, a special gift was given to Coach Joe Paterno, in honor of a career with more than 400 wins.
Knowing that Paterno already had an adequate collection of plaques and trophies, the Penn State Football Letterman’s Club and the Quarterback Club created a unique gift. Their intention was to capture the impact Coach Paterno has on players’ lives, long after they have passed through the Beaver Stadium tunnel for the final time.
The Letterman’s Club placed a call to the former captains of Coach Paterno back to his first team in1966. The captains were asked to write a Letter To Joe, about the impact he and Penn State made on their lives. Some told stories, others revealed feelings long kept inside. Nearly all recounted the same, consistent lessons taught through the years. The letters were put into a single book and presented at the 2010 Senior Banquet. It was called, "Captains’ Letters To Joe."
 
What a great gesture for "The Man".
 

Foodbme


Enough of this philosophical stuff already. Let's get this thread back to discussing foodball.
Penn State plays 7 Big 10 games this year- IN, IA Purdue, Northwestern, NB, OSU & WI. I think they have a good chance to go to the Big 10 Championship Game! 

That's a tough Big 10 schedule. Minnesota isn't on it.

I'm going to buy one for my son for Christmas.
He lives and breathes PSU football!
EDIT: Done!

saps, I guess we're writing at cross purposes; I didn't understand what you meant, and probably made a point addressing something you hadn't thought you'd written. But I think that you're not seeing quite what I mean somewhat, either. We are victims of our hard wiring sometimes. It's hard to break the system, even if your life depends on it. We do what we think we're supposed to do.
 
I apologize. I mistook what you wrote for your not caring, and that was irresponsible of me. I shouldn't have done that.

Davydd

Foodbme


Enough of this philosophical stuff already. Let's get this thread back to discussing foodball.
Penn State plays 7 Big 10 games this year- IN, IA Purdue, Northwestern, NB, OSU & WI. I think they have a good chance to go to the Big 10 Championship Game! 

That's a tough Big 10 schedule. Minnesota isn't on it.

 
They were on it in 1999

Mosca


saps, I guess we're writing at cross purposes; I didn't understand what you meant, and probably made a point addressing something you hadn't thought you'd written. But I think that you're not seeing quite what I mean somewhat, either. We are victims of our hard wiring sometimes. It's hard to break the system, even if your life depends on it. We do what we think we're supposed to do.

I apologize. I mistook what you wrote for your not caring, and that was irresponsible of me. I shouldn't have done that.

 
No harm and no need to apologize, but thank you.  I understand where you are coming from.  The line gets fuzzy between the system and individual accountability.  In the case of college football, and the win-at-all costs mentality, there are a lot of dangers within that system in a variety of ways, and as we have seen with the player issues at OSU and Miami most recently.  
In any event, the best thing that can come from Declan Sullivan's death is the hope that coaches will be a lot more judicious in their choices regarding both player and student safety in a variety of situations, whether it's adverse weather conditions or being careful with potentially concussed athletes.  Have a good weekend.

Sad story about my Boilermakers in today's Wall Street Journal.  The season hasn't even started and the top 2 quarterbacks are out with anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injuries.  They both missed parts of last season, as did the top running back and the top wide receiver, all from the same thing.  And Purdue's arguably best basketball player missed all last season and part of the prior season from ACL injuries.

This may turn into the season of survival. Not really the best team but which team can survive the scandals and the injuries.
 
Is it me or does TCU's schedule look like a cake walk?
 
Looking at the top 10
 
AP                                            
Oklahoma
Alabama
Oregon
LSU
Boise State
Florida State
Stanford
Tx A&M
Oklahoma State
Nebraska
 
USA Today
Oklahoma
Alabama
Oregon
LSU
Florida State
Stanford
Boise State
Oklahoma State
Tx A&M
Wisconsin
 
 
I also would have thought Texas would have fared better than USA T #24 and not in the top 25 in AP

I think the only two teams that might be able to run the table are OK & AL, and that won't be easy. One or both of the teams in the BCS Championship game might have a loss, maybe 2.

Foodbme


I think the only two teams that might be able to run the table are OK & AL, and that won't be easy. One or both of the teams in the BCS Championship game might have a loss, maybe 2.

 
Of those two BAMA has the tougher schedule.  GO BAMA ROLL TIDE!!

CAN YOU SAY SLAP ON THE WRIST!!!!!!!!
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/i...ami_suspensions_083011
 
No wonder boosters, agents and the like get away with it!
I know the investigation is on going, but come on NCAA really????
 
This comes from an organization that wont allow college athletes to have CREAM CHEESE for their bagels.
GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
 
http://offthebench.nbcspo...rse-cream-cheese-rule/
 

The Miami decision is a joke!
At one time the NCAA was a respected institution.
Today it's a toothless tiger wandering around with no direction and no plan for survival.
Money corrupts sports at al levels.
Big Money corrupts even more.
Can you say BCS? Sure you can!

Foodbme

CajunKing

September 1 is the first game on ESPN.
Is it wrong NOT to have a favorite team, and just love the sport?

It is wrong NOT to have a favorite team!
Your favorite team should be any team playing Notre Dame!
FIGHT ON!!

It's posts like this that made me wish Roadfood had a "Like" button!

joerogo

Davydd

Foodbme


Enough of this philosophical stuff already. Let's get this thread back to discussing foodball.
Penn State plays 7 Big 10 games this year- IN, IA Purdue, Northwestern, NB, OSU & WI. I think they have a good chance to go to the Big 10 Championship Game! 

That's a tough Big 10 schedule. Minnesota isn't on it.

They were on it in 1999

We don't need to be reminded, Joe!
 
I hate the conference splits - they favored Michigan and OSU. They wrecked some great rivalries. It could've been done better to alleviate the abolishing of some great Big Ten traditions.......
but, no one asked me :o(
 

The other night, Mrs and I sat down and watched an awesome show about college football: HBO's Michigan vs Ohio State: The Rivalry. Truly awesome, it captured everything that is great about college football, regardless of what team you cheer for. Highly, highly recommended.
 

Foodbme


Enough of this philosophical stuff already. Let's get this thread back to discussing foodball.
Penn State plays 7 Big 10 games this year- IN, IA Purdue, Northwestern, NB, OSU & WI. I think they have a good chance to go to the Big 10 Championship Game! 

Even if PSU loses to Nebraska, if they win their division they go to Big Ten championship. Theoretically, they could play Nebraska twice.
 
Why Nebraska is Penn State's cross division rival completely escapes me.  But, in the end, until the Big 12 (now ten and soon to be 9 when Texas goes independent) dissolves, Nebraska will find recruiting to be difficult in neighboring states. This will hurt them in a couple years, the way Penn State was hurt. But like Penn State, they'll rebound. And if the Big 12 (er 10 soon to be 9) dissolves and a couple schools like Missouri join the big ten, while other schools like Oklahoma, and others join PAC 10 and KU and TTU et al go to SEC, (to help push the Super Conferences of 16 Teams) then the recruiting ground will be up for grabs and Nebraska will regain it's Southern- particularly TX- draw. If the Texas schools are all split up between Pac-10/12+, SEC, Big East (TCU), and Independent Texas, Nebraska offers up a great opportunity for Texas students with it's B1G connection.
 
By the way, speaking of the 16 team superconferences - as I typed above - check out the new design of the Big Ten logo - tell me that "0" (zero) isn't suspiciously drawn to easily convert to a "6"  ---------yup, I said it! - now with 12 teams - who are the last 4?
 

I have my predictions:
In the running - top 4
Missouri (Kansas City Market)
Maryland (DC/Baltimore Market)
Rutgers (Land grant university - NY Metro area)
Pitt (joining PSU in PA - re-establishing PSU's greatest rival after PSU got the short stick in the new 12 team set up - Stealing Pittburgh tv market from Big East to Big Ten - which most people in Pittsburgh would probably prefer)
 
Next down the line - and not in this order:
Notre Dame - but I doubt it. I have to mention it, simply because ND has a tradition of playing Big Ten Schools. Even Penn State played a series for over a decade until they joined the Big Ten. Big Ten could've used ND then as the 12th team when PSU joined, but not any more. It doesn't add a new market and ND - money-wise, still gets bigger alumni donation as an independent.
 
West Virginia - it's a geographic thing - but not great choice in terms of revenue. Better than ND, though, in terms of grabbing a new territory and tv market of the  state of WV - small in population as it is. It could also help to sway Pitt, as the Big East disintegrates in the football conversation.
 
Kansas - but they'd likely rather head to SEC - better fit.
 
K-State - Same as KU
 
Iowa State - but again, like WV, they offer up little new market - but they do give Iowa another rival - except, Iowa always plays ISU in football and other sports - now they'd be a conference game, which means they'd lose another in-conference rival in football in the exchange for adding ISU as an in-conference game (rather than having them as a permanent non-conference foe. So, I doubt Iowa would like this at all. ISU as an SEC team? I don't know. You'd have to ask ISU alums about that.
 
Futher down is Virgina - which I do not think will leave the ACC - because, it was Virginia who threatened to leave the ACC to join Big Ten or SEC a few years ago when ACC was looking to expand and VaTech was not going to be included. Virginia pulled to have VaTech, cutting Syracuse out of the deal of the move to ACC when Boston College and Miami defected.
 
Ultimately, as the SEC expands and tries to take Miami and FSU from ACC, and Big Ten croons Maryland,  the ACC and Big East could merge to create an Eastern giant: the Big Atlantic. A 16 team football and 20 team basketball conference.   
 
Yes...I'm ready for College Football!!!!!!!!
 
 
 

Foodbme


Enough of this philosophical stuff already. Let's get this thread back to discussing foodball.
Penn State plays 7 Big 10 games this year- IN, IA Purdue, Northwestern, NB, OSU & WI. I think they have a good chance to go to the Big 10 Championship Game! 

They actually have 8.  You left off Illinois.
 
I don't think I've ever been more ready for the season to start so there is something else to talk about.  Though I have very mediocre expectations for the Buckeyes this year.  Adn after hearing that they are going with "co" starting QBs, running back by committee, and no permanent captains, I am even less hopeful that this is going to turn out well.

I am so ready for the start of football ... .
 
This Saturday -- following the first high school home game on Friday night -- I not only get to watch Ohio State's openber, but that evening there's Oregon-LSU.
 
And for the first year in a very long time, I believe, Texas isn't in the pre-season Top 25. Fie on you coaches and AP voters.

Michael Hoffman

And for the first year in a very long time, I believe, Texas isn't in the pre-season Top 25. Fie on you coaches and AP voters.

 
TX is #24 in the USA Today
and not in the top 25 in AP.
 
I was surprised, they should climb up quick enough though

Th4 Big 12 is now offically toast.
Texas A & M is leaving and that will start a mega rush to defect or other conferences to raid the conference.
Once the animal is injured, the jackel's show up.  
The day of the mega conferences is rapidly approaching and I think it's bad for college football!

Can't hardly wait for LSU_Oregon. Go Ducks
 
 

mr chips

Can't hardly wait for LSU_Oregon. Go Ducks

Tigers are bigger, stronger and faster than ducks. Ducks don't have a chance even with tigers in Jail.
My criminals can beat up your criminals.

We know that LSU's quarterback has more shoes than Oregon's quarterback. 

mr chips

We know that LSU's quarterback has more shoes than Oregon's quarterback. 

He got them at the Salvation Army Thrift Store for $1 a pair!

Foodbme


Th4 Big 12 is now offically toast.
Texas A & M is leaving and that will start a mega rush to defect or other conferences to raid the conference.
Once the animal is injured, the jackel's show up.  
The day of the mega conferences is rapidly approaching and I think it's bad for college football!

I don't know. It's certainly bad for schools left out of the superconferences, but in essence, with 4 superconferences: Pac-16, Big-16, SEC and Big Atlantic (BE/ACC) what you have is actually 8 conferences of 8 teams, with a mini-tournament (championship game) which will create a top 4 and a play-off becomes very do-able. Who' left out? Mountain West and WAC. I feel bad for Boise State. Pac-10 has already deemed their institution as not worthy, because of academics, so where do they go?
 
A few independent schools mix it up, Texas, Notre Dame, BYU and Navy.
 
One school I thought would get stung by this is Cincinatti. In my view, the Big East/ACC merger will not be a merger in the true sense, it will be a selection of Big East and ACC schools. They will also be looking at the basketball ramifications - since those two conferences are basketball giants, and other sports. Plus, it needs to be a particular kind of school academically. Ley's not forget that the vote comes from the academic side of the fence to moce conferences, not athletics - although, obviously the athletics are driving the financial part, which does lead to better funding for academics. When I move schools around in most of my scenarios, there was no room for Cincy with a 16 team cap in the conferences.
 
 What we might find, is a merger of top tier C-USA, Mountain West, WAC and some other teams left out of the fold. A fifth Superconference - except, it will be a little brother in comparison. If you take the next 16 schools after the 64 superconference schools and the three top independents, we have? -- Boise State, Fresno State, Air Force, Nevada, Hawaii in the West, Cincy maybe Iowa State in Mid-West, Army, ECU in the East, and I've left a few off - still, you can easily see my point, from top to bottom, little comparison to the other 4 superconferences.
 
But the Big 12 could recover - believe it or not. Now, they lost TCU as an opportunity to add a school, but there are some schools to woo. Another model I drew up,I think on a bar napkin, had a fifth superconference if the Big 12 remained intact with the 10 they have. This came from my drawing up of conferences based on basketball and type of school. The Big 12 has shown that it can be the 3rd conference behind Big East and ACC in basketball (don't get mad SEC fans)- if those two conferences were to merge, Big 12 is the second best basketball conference. That alone could keep it together. Consider the Big East, a conference built on basketball - they're still treading water, even after the Miami, Boston College, VaTech defection several years back. In football, Big East was wounded, but alive - and improving. UConn will be a strong team competing. Same with USF.
 
Although unlikely, if Notre Dame was to move football into the Big East, it could be the beginning of a raid from the ACC. Take Maryland, a school that really hasn't benefited greatly by being in the ACC. They're always second in something. Except for the 2002 Basketball championship - how has it helped Maryland. Even in Lacrosse, which created a 4 team ACC (unrecognized) lacrosse league, it seems the other 3 schools have faired better in the relationship - where it's Maryland that should have the edge, historically. The DC Market is very much prized. The Big Ten is looking hard at Maryland,. Penn State has a history in most sports with them, because of geography (although in football it's an extremely lopsided "rivalry") and the Big Ten is so eager to get the DC market, they played a football game at FedEx Field last season - an Indiana home game against Penn State. If the Big East were to steal Maryland - something which would be good for Maryland Football, and Lacrosse would get to play SU, and it's an even swap in BAsketball -plus the cross town rivalry with G'town basketball, that would strengthen the Big East and poise it to raid the ACC along with the SEC doing some raiding of its own, scrapping up schools like FSU and Miami.
 
So, if the Big East still has breath, so does the Big 12.
 
(sorry for the long post, I'm home with my son today and he's napping right now, so...)

Scorereader,
How could you?? You left out the Originators of College Football----
THE MIGHTY IVY LEAGUE!
Move Duke and Vanderbilt into the Ivy league and that opens other spots in the SEC & ACC/BE for Cincy

I don't want to make sweeping generalizations, but University Administrators do a lousy job of running a football league. Who can explain the endless pseudo-scandals to a non-fan in a way that makes any sense in the grand scheme of things. Why would any sports league just auction off its postseason to a series of completely different entities. Why is it OK for a University President to accept free meals and gifts from a booster, but a scholarship athlete gets tossed out of school for the same thing.