65-mpg Ford WON"T be sold in US

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_37/b4099060491065.htm

It is interesting that they don't think Americans would be interested in this car just because it runs on Diesel. What annoys me even more is that Ford should be making engines like this in the US. It seems more foreign countries make their cars in the US than American companies. Something is wrong with that

quote:

Originally posted by fattybomatty

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_37/b4099060491065.htm

It is interesting that they don't think Americans would be interested in this car just because it runs on Diesel. What annoys me even more is that Ford should be making engines like this in the US. It seems more foreign countries make their cars in the US than American companies. Something is wrong with that

I agree fatty. Something is ajar in the way most Americans think, according to the article. I agree 100%. Also, I bet there would be buyers lined up for a mile at the dealerships to purchase a vehicle such as this.

Of course I wish I still had my 8-10 mpg '69 Firebird. I would build a shrine for it.

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/08.21.03/lupo-0334.html

Unfortunately, the same is true of the 78 MPG VW Lupo.

I drove a 50mpg VW diesel from 1979 to 1991 (300,000 miles), and have more recently been driving a 1991 Jetta Diesel (42mpg) for 175,000 miles. I have an order in for a 2009 VW Jetta Wagon, which should get somewhere around 42-44 mpg. These cars have been durable, and incredibly efficient. (I hope the new one will be as well.) For the vast majority of what we use cars for, what else is needed?

I think they should be offered to the American market, they would probably do pretty well with the price of fuel being so high!

I was reading an article not that long ago about economical cars in America and alot of the cars were Japanese and on offer in Europe too, one thing I noticed though about the MPG figures of the American versions was that they were alot less than the figures for the same cars in Europe!

The majority of cars on the road here are diesel and even though diesel fuel is more expensive than petrol atm, diesel cars still remain the popular choice!

My daily driver is getting me around 50mpg and more on a longer drive, its a Citroen C3, not the most exciting or powerful car to drive but for economy its great!

They also offer this car in their range:

http://www.citroen.co.uk/new-cars/citroen-C1/

The petrol version is getting around 60mpg and the diesel 70+ mpg!

It just annoys me that a supposed "American Car Company" won't sell this in the US. I really feel like the people running Ford just have no clue.

Part of the issue is the heightened requirements on emissions promulgated by CARB. Several northeastern states have adopted them as well, and it can be tough for manufacturers to meet the emissions requirements for diesel engines. This in fact preempted VW's importation of their diesel vehicles for a year, until they could certify the cars in all 50 states, not just CARB states. The emissions requirements in Europe are more lax and accounts for part of the sales strategies. On top of that, many of these cars can't pass the safety and collision requirements in the US. That all being said, it doesn't make it any easier to take .

And Tony Bad, we're still driving a 1999 VW New Beetle TDI that gets 50 MPG, and it has 218,000 miles on it.

It isn't that William Clay Ford, Alan Mulally, and the others running Ford Motor Company don't have a clue. It is that FMC, like GM (and ESPECIALLY like Chrysler) are in perilous financial straits.

From my reading of the article, it sounds like Ford cannot currently afford the $350 million that it would cost to build a new diesel engine factory in the US. They could import the engines from the UK, where they are currently being manufactured, but then the cost of these cars in the US would be far more than most people would be willing to pay for such a small vehicle (something on the order of $35,000., IIRC)

My interpretation of the article is that Ford would dearly love to sell these cars in the US. However, since the US public tends to be averse to diesel engines (the old ones were, indeed, very smelly, noisy, and slow, and the Oldsmobile diesels that GM attempted to market were an absolute disaster), Ford feels that the cost of building this new diesel engine factory is just too much of a risk to take, given their current financial problems.

The good news for the US public is that the new diesel technology (called Blue Tech, IIRC) is quite clean, much quieter than previously, and with the use of a turbocharger--more powerful than a comparably-sized gasoline engine. And, the fuel efficiency is really great. Current Honda and Subaru diesel drivers in Europe commonly report fuel economy that equates to 50+ mpg on vehicles like the Accord and the Outback. Even with diesel prices running higher than gas prices, this works out to being approximately 30% less expensive for the owners.

The other good news is that these clean diesels will be available in relative abundance in the US within two years, maximum. Currently, the only manufacturers who are fully on-board with this are VW, Mercedes and BMW. The VW is either already available here, or will be VERY soon. The problem, of course, is that VWs have had an abominable reliability record for several years now, so there is a definite downside to owning a VW--but if someone wants a clean diesel, they will be available first from VW, with Mercedes and BMW following shortly thereafter.

Within two years, maximum, US buyers will be able to choose from Honda and Subaru diesel vehicles, in addition to the VW, Mercedes, and BMW models that will beat them to our shores. Other makes are possibilities also. Personally, I am going to hold onto my current car for two more years, and then I will buy a diesel vehicle.

Because of the rave reviews from the British motoring press for the Subaru engine ("Subaru has perfected the diesel engine", said one of the rave reviews), and because of my very positive experiences with Subarus, it will likely be of that make, but regardless of make, I will be in line to buy a clean diesel vehicle in about 2 years.

Hopefully Ford can rise out of their current monetary malaise in order to be one of the companies marketing this technology, because I would be willing to consider one of their products also.

Tedbear that $350 million was to manufacture the diesel engine in Mexico. Seems Ford has no plans of trying to manufacture these engines in the US.

The article states that even with the British manufactured engine the car would cost, "At prevailing exchange rates, the Fiesta ECOnetic would sell for about $25,700 in the U.S. By contrast, the Prius typically goes for about $24,000. A $1,300 tax deduction available to buyers of new diesel cars could bring the price of the Fiesta to around $24,400." I don't think that factors in the importing cost. So I believe you are right about it costing more if they want to make money. However, if they could sell it for around the same price, say give or take a few thousand, I think people would buy it

I also understand the original emissions problems, but it seems that is not a problem with this car either. Now I am not Mr. Buy American, but if Ford actually brought more of its operation back to the US and started making cars that are actually of a decent quality and reliable I would definitely purchase a Ford. However, as of right now my Hyundai is more American than most fords out there

Oh and the Lions need to fire Matt Millen.

quote:

Originally posted by MGWerks

Part of the issue is the heightened requirements on emissions promulgated by CARB. Several northeastern states have adopted them as well, and it can be tough for manufacturers to meet the emissions requirements for diesel engines. This in fact preempted VW's importation of their diesel vehicles for a year, until they could certify the cars in all 50 states, not just CARB states. The emissions requirements in Europe are more lax and accounts for part of the sales strategies. On top of that, many of these cars can't pass the safety and collision requirements in the US. That all being said, it doesn't make it any easier to take .

And Tony Bad, we're still driving a 1999 VW New Beetle TDI that gets 50 MPG, and it has 218,000 miles on it.

Another issue has been the poor quality of diesel fuel here in the US. Diesel models sold here have used old technology up until recent mandates that changed US fuel to ultra-low sulpher content. You are right though...my old diesels are rather dirty cars, with mechanical fuel injection that makes them sooty and smoky. The newer tech diesels run much cleaner yet still have the efficiency benefits of the older types.

Oh, and your 99 Beetle isn't even broken in yet!

quote:

Originally posted by fattybomatty

Tedbear that $350 million was to manufacture the diesel engine in Mexico. Seems Ford has no plans of trying to manufacture these engines in the US.

The article states that even with the British manufactured engine the car would cost, "At prevailing exchange rates, the Fiesta ECOnetic would sell for about $25,700 in the U.S. By contrast, the Prius typically goes for about $24,000. A $1,300 tax deduction available to buyers of new diesel cars could bring the price of the Fiesta to around $24,400." I don't think that factors in the importing cost. So I believe you are right about it costing more if they want to make money. However, if they could sell it for around the same price, say give or take a few thousand, I think people would buy it

I also understand the original emissions problems, but it seems that is not a problem with this car either. Now I am not Mr. Buy American, but if Ford actually brought more of its operation back to the US and started making cars that are actually of a decent quality and reliable I would definitely purchase a Ford. However, as of right now my Hyundai is more American than most fords out there

Oh and the Lions need to fire Matt Millen.

You are correct about the $350 million being the price of building a diesel engine foundry in Mexico, but with the cost of UAW labor in the US, it is not realistic for Ford or any other US-based auto maker to build that type of factory in the US today. Since I read the article several days ago (paper, rather than online), I was off by quite a bit on the projected US price of this car, but the fact remains that it would be unrealistically high for a very small car.

Yes, people who are interested in great fuel efficiency would likely buy this car, but with Ford's bad financial situation, they really can't make any big mistakes at this point, and this one is sort of a crap-shoot. If the US economy continues to be as bad as it is right now, families would be unlikely to want to spend that kind of money for a car that couldn't carry the whole family.

I am interested in buying the best-quality vehicle that meets my needs, for the best price. For me, for you, and for many other people, that has unfortunately meant buying Japanese and Korean cars in recent years. However, the quality of US cars is much better than it was a few years ago, and Ford leads the US manufacturers in quality. So--hopefully they can lift themselves out of their current plight.

I would love to be able to buy an American car with confidence, but the last GM car that I owned (a Chevy) was really bad. If I had not purchased the extended warranty on that car, I would have spent a veritable fortune to keep that car on the road. However, I also have to say that this particular car was an improvement over the previous car--a Volvo--which was the absolute worst car that I ever owned.

The car that came after the Chevy, a Ford Taurus, was actually a very good car, and was exceeded only by my Honda Accord. And the Accord was bested by a Subaru Outback. That first Outback was replaced with my present Subaru Outback, and that car has proven to be rock-solid reliable to the point that it is the best car that I have ever owned. Can an American car approach this level of quality? I really hope so, for the benefit of the US economy. Time will tell.

I believe that Ford is just afraid that the US is too diesel hy. Americans have never had a love affair with them except for in the huge work trucks where the power and low torque is really usefull. plus it will always stick in our minds about the way deisel got bumped up a buck a gallon during the current gas crisis. Even when diesel was the cheaper fuel it still didnt generate a lot of supporters.
britt

I agree with you completely Ted. I think that's what gets me mad about this article. I just wish Ford and GM would take some more steps, or I should say I wish they had taken more steps in the past, to be at the forefront of the auto industry instead of trying to play catchup.

I have a 2002 Dodge Ram Cummins Turbo Diesel 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive pickup.
It weighs right at 7000lbs and I get 20mpg local and 25mpg highway at 60mph. The difference in fuel savings between a gas and a diesel is amazing!
I no longer need the truck because I sold my fifth wheel travel trailer. Thinking about selling it and getting a small sedan.

This really does bug me - how are we incapable of building a high-mileage car, or, with our global economy, importing some that exist pretty much everywhere else on earth?
Well, I guess we did get caught by surprise - after all, the energy crisis only hit us THIRTY-FIVE YEARS AGO!

Vince you hit the nail on the head

Check this:

http://www.teslamotors.com/

0 to 60 in 3.9 seconds
256 mpg, Thats two hundred and fifty six MPH

You can buy it in the US

quote:

Originally posted by 007bond-jb

Check this:

http://www.teslamotors.com/

0 to 60 in 3.9 seconds
256 mpg, Thats two hundred and fifty six MPH

You can buy it in the US

If I'm gonna blow over $100K on an automobile, cost of operation probably won't be a factor. pb

quote:

Originally posted by fattybomatty

It just annoys me that a supposed "American Car Company" won't sell this in the US. I really feel like the people running Ford just have no clue.

There ARE NO AMERICAN car companies--hell there are practically no "American corporations at all--Corporations are now all Multinational and feel they owe nothing to ANY country. If you want an fuel efficient American made vehicle -BUY A HARLEY!

A gearhead friend has offered his "solution" to anyone who would listen for years. His idea seems great and common sense to me. He would let any "legitimate" US car company (to include foreign owed companies like Toyota) import up to 1000 per year of any overseas model that they make......without restrictions as to safety, emissions etc. They could be sold as experimental or whatever to guage demand before a big investment was made. Maybe there are not enough folks to make it worth setting up a Fiesta line over here, but I am sure that they could sell 1000, even at the high price that Ford would need to charge.

quote:

Originally posted by tmiles

A gearhead friend has offered his "solution" to anyone who would listen for years. His idea seems great and common sense to me. He would let any "legitimate" US car company (to include foreign owed companies like Toyota) import up to 1000 per year of any overseas model that they make......without restrictions as to safety, emissions etc. They could be sold as experimental or whatever to guage demand before a big investment was made. Maybe there are not enough folks to make it worth setting up a Fiesta line over here, but I am sure that they could sell 1000, even at the high price that Ford would need to charge.

I like the idea, but would 1000 be enough to support any allowance for repair and service? (I don't know how much dealer investment that would entail)
Apparently microcars sold well in Britain due in part to their being classified as motorcycles and thus being cheaper to license and insure. I wonder if we could do similar here with cars under a certain size - didn't we get SUVs around some smog restrictions by classifying them as trucks?

quote:

Originally posted by Vince Macek

quote:

Originally posted by tmiles

A gearhead friend has offered his "solution" to anyone who would listen for years. His idea seems great and common sense to me. He would let any "legitimate" US car company (to include foreign owed companies like Toyota) import up to 1000 per year of any overseas model that they make......without restrictions as to safety, emissions etc. They could be sold as experimental or whatever to guage demand before a big investment was made. Maybe there are not enough folks to make it worth setting up a Fiesta line over here, but I am sure that they could sell 1000, even at the high price that Ford would need to charge.

I like the idea, but would 1000 be enough to support any allowance for repair and service? (I don't know how much dealer investment that would entail)
Apparently microcars sold well in Britain due in part to their being classified as motorcycles and thus being cheaper to license and insure. I wonder if we could do similar here with cars under a certain size - didn't we get SUVs around some smog restrictions by classifying them as trucks?

I have no idea. I'm a foodie, not a gearhead. He is thinking in terms of "specialty" cars, that generally would get little dealer support anyway. If I were Ford, and got the right to import micro amounts of special cars, I would sell them at only a few dealers, who wanted to support them, at a price where they carried their own weight. As it is, a guy who wanted to experiment, and import one of these cars on his own, perhaps to run on used cooking oil, would face real proplems with permits to import.

Is anyone really surprised by this news?

When Ford and General Motors did sell 45-55MPG cars (dirt cheap too!!), no one bought them, or very few I should say since I've got one.

Now that an uncaring, fuel and resource wasting, big-car wanting nation is crying like a baby, no one cares.

quote:

Originally posted by Tedbear


The car that came after the Chevy, a Ford Taurus, was actually a very good car, and was exceeded only by my Honda Accord. And the Accord was bested by a Subaru Outback. That first Outback was replaced with my present Subaru Outback, and that car has proven to be rock-solid reliable to the point that it is the best car that I have ever owned. Can an American car approach this level of quality? I really hope so, for the benefit of the US economy. Time will tell.

American workers in Lafayette, Indiana put that Subaru Outback together so I guess they can approach that level of quality.

I had a Subaru Outback and I may buy another one. I agree they are great cars.

quote:

Originally posted by MrBurns

Is anyone really surprised by this news?

When Ford and General Motors did sell 45-55MPG cars (dirt cheap too!!), no one bought them, or very few I should say since I've got one.

Now that an uncaring, fuel and resource wasting, big-car wanting nation is crying like a baby, no one cares.

Well, now I'm curious - what car do you have?
I'm thinking of doing something I've wanted to do since the mid-90s - buy a mid-90s Honda Civic. I like the hatchback bodies that can take my 6'-3" frame without my resorting to yoga, and mileage better than their current Fit. Since my '94 Toyota pickup is nearing a quarter-million miles I don't much fear old cars...
...besides, if I can get something on the cheap now, I may be able to afford whatever comes along in a few years - I'm really hoping the 3-wheel, 100-MPG Venture hybrid sees the light of day!

I saw a 3-wheeled scooter on the road the other day. Today on MotorWeek they did a spot on it ... the Piagio MP3. Gets 56mpg and goes upto 70mph.



Though from what I understand from another owner who has a very similar looking one but not a three wheeler (also a different brand), he gets 84mpg!.

quote:

Originally posted by Vince Macek

quote:

Originally posted by MrBurns

Is anyone really surprised by this news?

When Ford and General Motors did sell 45-55MPG cars (dirt cheap too!!), no one bought them, or very few I should say since I've got one.

Well, now I'm curious - what car do you have?
I'm thinking of doing something I've wanted to do since the mid-90s - buy a mid-90s Honda Civic. I like the hatchback bodies that can take my 6'-3" frame without my resorting to yoga, and mileage better than their current Fit.

Vince, I have a 1996 Geo Metro 4 door, 1.3l engine. With careful driving, I manage 52MPG city, 60MPG highway. Others do better than that. I used to have a Geo Metro hatchback with a 1.0l engine, that was even stingier; 60 and 70MPG respectively.

There was a Civic HB option in the early 90's, I think that was rated at 55MPG. The 1.3l Metro is rated at 45MPG average.

I paid 400$ for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Davydd

quote:

Originally posted by Tedbear


The car that came after the Chevy, a Ford Taurus, was actually a very good car, and was exceeded only by my Honda Accord. And the Accord was bested by a Subaru Outback. That first Outback was replaced with my present Subaru Outback, and that car has proven to be rock-solid reliable to the point that it is the best car that I have ever owned. Can an American car approach this level of quality? I really hope so, for the benefit of the US economy. Time will tell.

American workers in Lafayette, Indiana put that Subaru Outback together so I guess they can approach that level of quality.

I had a Subaru Outback and I may buy another one. I agree they are great cars.

I guess that I should have said American-designed car. I am well aware that both of my Subarus were made in Lafayette, Indiana--but of course, they were designed in Japan, and were manufactured to Japanese standards of quality. My Honda Accord was manufactured in Marysville, Ohio, and again, was designed in Japan and was manufactured to Japanese standards.

The problem is rarely American workers, as they can usually be counted on to assemble cars and other consumer products to the standards that the manufacturer demands. Unfortunately, US-based car companies have frequently used standards that were not sufficiently high for customers to be satisfied with the product.

Tedbear,

Are you sure those cars were designed in Japan? Most of the Japanese auto companies have design studios in the U.S. and many of their models are designed, engineered, made and sold only in the U.S.

I agree that American workers can assemble cars as good as those in Japan. I also think that US auto designers and engineers are as good as any anywhere. The problem is with U.S. executive management. Japanese auto executives spend most of their time working with people within their companies to compete with other companies in making cars people want to buy. Unfortunately, U.S. auto company executives spend most of their time competing with other executives within their own companies in office politics. And top U.S. executives spend most of their time working on extracting as much $$ as possible from the company for themselves.

I own a Japanese manufacturer truck, a 2004 Nissan Titan Pickup which was the Motor Trend truck of the year, but it was designed by Americans in California. The engine was made in a foundry in Tennessee and it was built and assembled in Mississippi. I doubt you can buy a Ford, Chevy, GMC or Dodge pickup truck with that kind of American pedigree. With a global economy the lines are blurred. Even if a Japanese company, Americans can benefit by holding stock in the company. Then it all comes full circle. The Japanese learned about quality assurance standards from W. Edward Deming, an American.