Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution

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Pigiron
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 08:48:38
Are you sure this particular time it's a case of a greedy landlord?  It sounds like the restaurant is in serious trouble on it's own.  The article says that Junior's sales have dropped 20% in three years and their costs have skyrocketed.  The article does not state what the landlord demands were for the new lease.  Yes, it's awful when a great old restaurant closes, but it's not automatically the landlord's fault (often times it is, but it might not be in this case). 
MetroplexJim
Filet Mignon
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 10:17:48
As a (very small-time) commercial landlord I want absolutely nothing but business success for my tenants. 
 
Several years ago there was a generational change in the management of a long-time tenant, a 'white table cloth' Italian restaurant.  When recent reviews on Urbanspoon and Yelp turned sour I feared the worst.  Sure enough, they went from timely pay to "slow-pay" to "no-pay". 
 
In the end I not only got stuck with 6 months' "no-rent" I had to pay an agent a hefty fee to find a new tenant and then had to pay for an even heftier build-out allowance for the new tenant before I saw even a dime of "new rent".  Through all of that I made timely payments to the property's mortgagor and timely payments to the taxation authorities.  (What do you think their attitude would have been if I had tried to have them "participate" in my financial misery)?  Thank goodness this "tenant gone bad" only occupied 2% of the property; that's why I avoid "big box" like the plague.
 
Happily, the new tenant is very successful; so successful that they expanded into a vacant ajacent space and built a piano bar.  This morning I checked them on Urban Spoon and 88% of the 171 reviews are positive.  Such is the "creative destruction" of the free market.
 
As 'venerable' as Junior's Deli was, the market was clearly "telling them something" when their gross revenues declined by 20%; in a business sense that "something" is "marked for death".  Their clientele spoke this eloquently by withholding their patronage and taking it to other places which better satisfied their needs, wants, and desires. 
 
Believe me, "landlord greed" played no part in this process; all they wanted is a fair market rent for their 11,000 s.f. property and for it to be paid timely and in full.  In fact, given my "sob story" above one might even feel a little pity for the costly process this failed business is forcing them through!
 
& BTW:  why is a "deli" whining about a $4.00/# increase in the cost of corned beef?  Any Deli "worth its salt" (and worthy of the name) brines and seasons their own corned beef, pastrami, etc.  And the last time I looked, wholesale brisket is cheap as dirt.  Also, if I had a business grossing $7MM out of 11,000 s.f. I would have made it a priority to become my own landlord, like those 'venerable' NYC delis and specialty groceries who own their own buildings.    
post edited by MetroplexJim - 2012/12/27 10:28:20
wanderingjew
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 10:23:52
Mar,
 
After reviewing the article, I agree with Pigiron.
 
If the Kosher Style Deli's are anything like the small handful of deli's left in the NYC area they're mostly relying on tourists for  a culinary treat that unfortunately is taking its last gasp of breath.
mar52
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 12:26:36
They are looking for a new location. 
 
Sales are down in the Los Angeles area almost across the board.  Unfortunately that's where things are these days as prices on everything are rising.
 
Junior's is never empty so I'm not sure if they're using the figures as a bargaining tactic.  That harp store picture I posted last month was taken while I was sitting in a crowded Junior's.  My mother and I eat there often.
 
My mother is landlord to a hot dog stand and a Subway.  She adjusted the rent for the year rather than lose tenants by raising it even though the raise was in the lease.  Sometimes you have to be flexible.
 
I believe it's some of both working in this picture.
 
I knew Marvin Saul.  Years ago I had breakfast with him, my brother and a few others once a month at Junior's.  They were all Lion's Club members and I tagged along. 
 
As I've said in past posts, the Pico Boulevard/Westwood area were/are my stomping grounds.  My brother's store was on Pico around the corner from Junior's and down the block from Apple Pan.
 
Junior's will be missed and other businesses in that area will feel the ramifications of the loss of Junior's.
 
I'm also reacting to the loss of another of my favorites. 
MetroplexJim
Filet Mignon
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 14:03:57
Mar, I'm glad to hear that they are looking for a new location; 11,000 feet is a HUGE space for a deli and their present staff of 95 has to include many who work part-time.  Their present annual gross receipts of $5.6MM could still be extremely profitable with a smaller overhead.  Moving and a little downsizing may well be the best thing that ever happened to them.
 
I know that it is "counter-intuitive" to have sympathy for any landlord, but I tell you truly that I would far rather have the property taxes I pay rather than my residual claim as the owner.
brisketboy
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 14:06:40
Funny, I had this discussion at work about the decline of the New York style deli. The landscape is changing and the kosher deli seems to have no part in this change. I grew up on the north side of Chicago and remember a slew of deli's on Kedzie, Montrose, Lawrance Ave. And by the time I went back in 1980 most of them were gone. Sadly there are none herein Austin worth visiting.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 14:56:19
Brisket is not as cheap as chips these days

When you have a busy Deli in a major market with high rent and have tons an tons of product to $tore that takes a good month until it's ready to serve....there are many additions cost$ that the consumer does not always take in account.

kland01s
Filet Mignon
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 15:30:11
Metroplexjim, I really appreciate your insight! I have seen many places in this area go under and blame rent and/or economy as the reason they closed but I have been to many of them and know the reason they closed was that they were no good in either food or service and nobody came.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 15:57:48
When a business disappears there is only one person to blame, the owner. In this case the old man died and the son couldn't handle it.
Or the guy who wrote the story didn't like Landlords.
It's quite possible the son made up his mind that if he couldn't get the rent he wanted he would complete the down sizing he already started somewhere else. Maybe from 11000 SQ FT to 6000 SQ ft.
The existing Landlord could never match that price.
JRPfeff
Filet Mignon
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 16:11:03
Reminds of when I took my wife to see Rent, not knowing what it was about.  I was cheering for the landlords, hoping they'd bulldoze their building and run off the freeloading scum.
 
Now that's a happy ending! :)
MetroplexJim
Filet Mignon
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 18:44:08
JRPfeff

Reminds of when I took my wife to see Rent, not knowing what it was about.  I was cheering for the landlords, hoping they'd bulldoze their building and run off the freeloading scum.

Now that's a happy ending! :)



 
As an economic policy "rent control" has a demonstrated, consistent history of causing truly unfortunate, unintended consequences.
mar52
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 19:20:16
It's true that the sons are not the father.  This could very well play in to what is happening.
 
In Los Angeles 6,000 square feet could cost the same or more than 11,000 square feet.  Location!
 
That's probably the same everywhere.
 
 
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 19:36:30
Location!

Zoning as well. You can have the sq. footage and be zoned-out. Landlords that have jewels...keep them in the crown...for good reason.

It took 2nd Ave. Deli a long time to find another location.
MetroplexJim
Filet Mignon
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 19:54:18
mar52

It's true that the sons are not the father.  This could very well play in to what is happening.


 
Sadly, that's what happened with my little "sob story" above.  The scion came in and "sophisticated" the menu by jacking prices and featuring offal.  Even though Anthony Bourdain (on his expense account) may have been impressed, neither "move" was received well by the wealthy, reserved Ft. Worth neighborhood in which his establishment was located on my premises.

MetroplexJim
Filet Mignon
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 20:23:27
CCinNJ 

Landlords that have jewels...keep them in the crown...for good reason. 


 
Yes! 
 
As opposed to residential, the value of commercial real estate is driven not by speculation, appearance, or pride.  It is rationally, "green eye-shade" determined by the value of the tenant leases.  Yet, taxation authorities pay little attention to this fact and "assess" by location (comparables) and physical facility.
 
A "crown jewel" tenant should really consider purchasing his premises.  If they ever think that they can "get away" with paying less than fair market rent "just because", they are egregiously incorrect.  The "tax man" always has his gun at the landlord's wallet and doesn't want to hear any "sob story" or "tradition" crap.
 
As a landlord I really don't OWN anything.  I just control it, for better or worse.  Even after I get rid of the mortgagor, I will still "report" to the tax-man, always and forever. 

CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 20:41:09
But in Los Angeles & NYC there are only so many commercial listings that would fit the needs for potential tenants. Those tenants wanting to become owners often bid against potential owners that wish to become their landlord...with the cash-in-hand to make it happen before the tenants wanting to be owners can hail a cab to the bank.
mar52
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/27 21:26:18
Do they have triple net in Texas?
 
Triple Net killed me as the leasee.  I was responsible for the landlord's taxes and licenses.  The one that bothered me the most was that I had to pay for her business license that afforded her the right to collect money from me.
 
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 00:13:11
Triple net is simplified.
The Landlord collects all the expenses to run the building from the tenant or he forfeits  the building.
The tenant collects all the expenses to run the business from his clientele or he forfeits the business.
If the landlord and tenant don't make a profit on top of their expenses it's classified as a hobby.
CNW
Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 02:56:43
Before everybody praises all landlords and blames all tenants I thought that I would share a story about a local Kansas City restaurant that has been visited by many Roadfooders when they come here. I am a regular diner at this restaurant and have listened to the employees gossip. They talked about how problems with the property started right away. The physical plant was old and worn out. The Electrician and HVAC guys were there so often that they got to know the manager by name. The parking lot began to crumble into gravel and potholes formed on a regular basis and the landlord wouldn't do anything about it. Now I admit that I don't know whose responsible for what as far as maintenance is concerned but more then once I heard customers say as they were leaving that the parking lot needed to be fixed before they would come back.
 
It got to the point that by last summer, I heard more then one employee mention that they thought that there was a good chance that they would be unemployed come Spring when the lease is up. Finally, after more then three years of a beat up parking lot the landlord came in rebuilt it in September. The employees don't know if a new lease has been signed or not but at least the talk about loosing their job in the Spring has stopped. I am an ex restaurant manager and I know that the landlord and the tenant have to be able to work together if they expect to be successful.
 
CNW
 
 
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 06:20:08
These days (most often unless property ownership was established way back in time) landlords of large commercial properties in the highest-ticket real estate markets are not individuals or a family...but a real estate investment trust that has no emotional attachment to anything but their investors portfolios.

It's about their business and best interest...nothing else.

They know that if/when things do not work out with a tenant (no matter how beloved) a new tenant will move right in.

If you look around at the locations that used to be a restaurant deli etc. in the high-ticket markets ...and for whatever reason things did not work out with a lease many cases the new tenant that follows happens to be...a bank.

The businesses that have owned their own property for a very very long time in NYC are fortunate. It's impossible to consider purchasing a property in this market...considering the majority of properties in NYC also come with an expensive building above it.
post edited by CCinNJ - 2012/12/28 07:16:00
MetroplexJim
Filet Mignon
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 10:02:34
As is true in all professions and lines of endeavor, there are indeed bad landlords.  From back in my business days in Metro-DC one particular retail group comes instantly to mind. 
 
Please do not take the instances I cited above to make all landlords "angels"!  Truly, all I am saying is that often there are two sides to an unfortunate circumstance such as Junior's.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 14:06:43
My parking lot would cost a year of tenants rent.
Sounds simple but there are also other expenses in every year.
My lot is 11 years old I budgeted (hoped) for 20 years.
I hope I don't have to stretch it but the tenants always want a deal.
It would be no problem if I had the same tenant for 20 years but every time a tenant leaves it can cause a 6 month loss in revenue even if a new tenant moves in right away.
They always want at least 2 months to renovate, they say that it benefits me, they are improving my building.
So they make it what they want but then they leave, trouble is it's not what the next tenant wants so we have the expense to rip it out before we can start anew. 
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 14:10:16
It's about their business and best interest...nothing else.
 
CC. This better be true about all businesses or they will eventually fail.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 14:39:52
It was meant as a statement in regard to why a landlord would not go out of their way and make any  concessions so many of the beloved Roadfood establishments in high-ticket markets  remain in business.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 15:06:06
I realized that.
It still remains, business is business. Unless it benefits business you should beware. Charity is a whole other animal.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 15:16:43
Hardly charity. Many of the deal breakers are what's to be done in terms of improvements with a location that has been there generations before the reps. were born. In return the standard "concession" would always be a lease extention to ensure the current iconic tenant will not be out on the curb...in 36 months looking at a new Duane Reade or Chase Bank....while having to scramble to see if they can land elsewhere.

That's usually where it all breaks down...in NYC.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 16:02:35
Still, if you owed a building and had a choice, greasy spoon that's hard on a building and may fold anytime or a bank that will pay and be there for 20 years.
The cart guys can set up outside the door.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 16:08:56
We're not talking about greasy spoons. Many of the lost businesses were a very big part of the culture of...home (for many) and will be mourned. This is Roadfood. That's what happens.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 18:24:35
You're definition and my definition of a greasy spoon are probably different. I thought we were talking about bad landlords and good business not morning the loss of landmark road food.
Here we seem to loose a landmark business a year, some are Road food some are hardware stores. The common denominator in most cases is they have outlived their usefulness. Not enough customers willing to eat the fat or pay the price.  McRib is king.  
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 18:41:40
There are plenty of winners...right in <<<Hoboken>>> Useful? They are only the collective best at what they do...and will not be stopped by any Landlord. Given the chance...they would be deemed a casualty of business. Thankfully...enough talented business folk cherish them enough to support that battle and retain that culture. That's life.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 19:52:14
No landlord in his right mind would try to stop a successful tenant, they are just to hard to find. You will also find successful tenants have long term leases with long term options or have purchased their own building. In my mind only a fool would build a business and not try to buy a building. Mine has increase in value by 5 times since I bought it in 1998.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 19:55:52
Ice Cream Man...this is NYC. There's a long list of successful long-standing Roadfood businesses that have gone dark....simply because of Landlord disputes.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 19:58:32
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 20:17:08
I read the whole article.
Seems his business was down 25% and he wanted a better deal on the rent than the landlord would give him.
It doesn't say why the landlord needed more.
It does say why he couldn't pay more.
Just because his business is down doesn't mean the landlord should carry him, what if his business continues to drop, just because he has been there for 29 years and isn't a chain he gets a free pass?
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 20:25:24
Well even I can't make sense out of the second one.
He's got 5 years left on his lease and he closes because the landlord wants to raise the rent in 5 years ?
He passed his inspection but needs to renovate because he's done nothing for 30 years.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 20:25:48
In a down economy a landlord that asks for a steep increase in rent from a long-time successful tenant and decides to not renew a lease would not be considered greedy? Paramount Group ain't hurtin' for money.

So anything a landlord considers what they want from a tenant without negotiation or even a damn comment if they had a side after all those years of a loyal tenant ...is good business? Take whatever. Ok. We will not agree.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 20:28:04
If the second guy wants to come north I'll lease him the same SQ FT for 3000.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 20:32:17
No 2nd Ave was only guaranteed a lease for those years left and could not justify the risk of making an investment without any further guarantee that they will have their lease renewed. Sometimes landlords simply opt-out without option of renewal...because there are sweethearts waiting in the wings. Like a Chase Bank.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 20:33:20
Just because the tenant goes public with his wows doesn't mean the landlord has to publicly defend himself.
The old landlord had a lot less costs than the new one, and I'm sure the new tenant will cover them.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 20:35:28
He hasn't renovated for 30 years he can wait another 5.
Why close now with 5 years to go ?
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 20:39:21
Because he was not going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to be up to the future year code...without a lease extention. Tenants ain't always the landlords bi*ch.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 20:56:31
It's sort of a news story when iconic places in NYC close. I'm sure every news outlet went to them to ask. It's nice to explain to loyal customers that this was not a decision that was reached because they wanted to be out of business.

A landlord does not have to explain...but the story is pretty clear when they decline comment.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 21:04:36
CCinNJ

Because he was not going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to be up to the future year code...without a lease extention. Tenants ain't always the landlords bi*ch.

 Still didn't answer my question.
He hasn't renovated in 30 years, he passed his health inspection, he has 5 years left on the lease, WHY did he close.
A sane person with a good business would use the 5 years to negotiate a new lease or find a new location.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 21:07:04
A landlord does not have to explain...but the story is pretty clear when they decline comment.
 
Not to me, maybe they just don't want to get into a public pissing match with a tenant.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 21:13:41
"But he said that the restaurant needed several hundred thousand dollars' worth of renovations to meet Board of Health regulations, and that without a long-term lease at a rent he felt he could pay he could not justify doing the work."

Yeah...because Ben Benson was really pissin' in that article.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 21:20:14
He just passed his health inspection so he has time to do renovations, negotiate a lease or move, instead he closed and went public with his wows. Still doesn't make sense to me unless he can't pay his bills.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 21:23:43
Where does it say how much time he had to satisfy the health department?

He's paying his bills just fine at another location now.
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 21:44:44
We passed our last inspection, but I know we have to do a lot of work."
 
If you pass an inspection it means there is nothing pressing you have to do. This place probably only gets inspected every 6 months.
The question remains why close now ?
Another question appears, if he closes now he still owes the rest of the lease almost 5 years x 24000 but I guess the landlord will eat that.
post edited by Ice Cream Man - 2012/12/28 21:45:46
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 21:47:54
Nothing pressing?

Construction in NYC?

Really?

The NYC Health Department rolls around once every blue moon and they just said hey get it done...whenever?

Because NYC construction is so quick & easy around a working restaurant?

Maybe it was a business decision much like your parking lot.

They didn't eat it. Chase moved in. A Roadfood happy ending! Now if all those pesky Roadfood restaurants would just close so we could have more Chase!
post edited by CCinNJ - 2012/12/28 21:51:13
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 21:54:01
NYC restaurants are randomly inspected at least once a year. Not when you are told something has to be fixed. There is a timeline to that.


They closed because they would fail the next inspection by the Health Department and not be able to operate until they moved forward with the renovation and it was complete.

The NYC Health Department most certainly checks back soon to make sure the ball is rolling towards resolution. If no progre$$ is determined...closed.
post edited by CCinNJ - 2012/12/28 22:11:54
Ice Cream Man
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 23:07:20
I don't know what you're reading, he said he passed the health inspection, as I assume he has for 29 years. He said he wants to renovate to bring the place up to modern standards, something he has failed to do for 29 years. Still got 5 years left but wants to blame the landlord for closing. He said if the Landlord gave him the deal he wanted he would reopen. If Chase is in there I guess he walked away. His choice.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/28 23:19:17
If it wasn't a pressing matter I'm sure he would not opt to close with plans to sink hundreds of thousands of dollars into the basement and prep area @ 5 years to go...just because. He was interested in staying if he could justify the cost with a extension.

I am reading the article written in the month of Jan and it mentions that he intended to move forward with the renovations in the month of Jan or Feb. and the restaurant would remain closed until the negotiations were complete. If it was not pressing it would have been like any other year when he was not told that he has to get it done.

The renovations were about the basement and prep area. So when you say he has not done hundreds of thousands of dollars in renovations...I guess it makes sense volunteer hundreds of thousands of dollars into the basement on your own volition..

His choice to close? That makes no sense because while he has a thriving business today at another location...it took 2 years to get back into business with a new location.

The article mentions the rules of today or today's standards (2006) and those rules and standards often change quickly....in regard to NYC Health Dept.
post edited by CCinNJ - 2012/12/28 23:40:37
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/29 00:32:27
Ohhh my it was the dysfunctional Wilpon family that sold the 2nd Ave. Deli property in 2006.

Obviously karma dictates that the New York Mets (owned by the Wilpons) have the curse of the 2nd Ave. Deli in effect. They went on to lose a heartbreaking NLCS in 2006 and the only thing good about them ever since is Shake Shack in Citi Field and Mr. Met.

I wonder if Bernie Madoff was holding the keys at the transfer.
post edited by CCinNJ - 2012/12/29 00:40:04
MetroplexJim
Filet Mignon
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/29 09:10:44
Ice Cream Man

"A landlord does not have to explain...but the story is pretty clear when they decline comment".

Not to me, maybe they just don't want to get into a public pissing match with a tenant.


Indeed!  What possibly could be gained?
 
Markets are constantly changing in response to changes in tastes, populations, technology, incomes, etc.  Even in a strict economic sense such "change" is not so much about greed but responding to that which is the best use for a scarce resource.
 
And just what malevolent force is this driving this change?  The consumer!
 
Yes, it is the lowly consumer who, through "voting" with his meager supply of hard-earned $$$, acts indepently (yet, effectively in concert) with his like-mined fellows to effect change.
 
I am certain that there was much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and economic disruption as community after community "died" when the whaling industry failed in the face of cheap kerosene. 
 
Such change is the "creative destruction" of free markets; it is driven by the soverignty of free individuals - acting in their own self-interest - in their vital role as consumer.
post edited by MetroplexJim - 2012/12/29 09:12:58
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/29 09:39:15
That's nonsense considering this is the 2nd Ave. Deli and I don't know any consumer that would agree in the case of the 2nd Ave. Deli that the time has come and they fit in the useless category.


It is a free market and with that there are sad stories as a consumer. Gladly...it was not a casualty forever lost...in the current landscape.

Yes...free individuals working with no consideration other than their best interest will be considered greedy by some...when it's at the risk of demise to a treasured establishment whose only "fault" is being a vital part of the neighborhood that drove the property values so high...in the first place.

I'm sure that bank will flip several time along the way...with many perks never afforded to Deli. Such is life...but not anything to be happy about.
kevincad
Cheeseburger
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/29 09:40:40
mar52

It's true that the sons are not the father.  This could very well play in to what is happening.

In Los Angeles 6,000 square feet could cost the same or more than 11,000 square feet.  Location!

That's probably the same everywhere.



 
You can't put blame on a landlord who has invested money, time, blood, sweat and tears into an investment and would like a return on that investment. I own two rental properties in the Atlanta, GA area and know first hand that there are a LOT of hidden expenses that people don't realize. These properties stay rented, good tenants but I'm really not making any money if you include my time. My hope is to sell them when the market is high. But, I'll bet that the tenants probably think I'm "greedy" because I simply don't want to lose money on them.
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/29 09:44:53
Money yes. The blood sweat and tears when it comes to high-ticket real estate?

That's all done by the tenants and investors....when the landlord is a REIT.
MetroplexJim
Filet Mignon
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/29 09:45:24
The issue is not "useless", but "best use".
CCinNJ
Sirloin
Re:Another Greedy Landlord Destroys an Institution 2012/12/29 09:48:55
Yes best use...a bank that flips more than pancakes at a busy Diner.

That's Roadfood!

In many cases when you fast-forward a few years the businesses at the controls (as well as many of the new tenants) are also the ones begging for mercy or in plenty of hot water in financial and/ or legal matters....with little to show but for the wonderful business decisions they left behind. Or investors that lost plenty in that game...banking on the good decisions of the REITs.



That's why ownership of so many properties flip so often...these days in Los Angeles & NYC.

That's why many people have such an opinion as "greedy landlord" in many cases of THESE particular types of property owners in Los Angeles & NYC.
post edited by CCinNJ - 2012/12/29 10:22:16
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