Helpful ReplyBBQ spare ribs question

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Grits-N-Gravy
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2010/02/12 14:07:27 (permalink)

BBQ spare ribs question

From looking at some pics here, I know I'm in the right place.
 
I'm working on my menu and am  undecided on offering ribs. My concept is grill heavy (no pastas), and I would like to offer ribs. Doing steaks, chicken, pork chops, seafood off a hickory fired grill.
 
I have a couple of uses for BBQ sauce, so I'll already have that on hand.
 
What I wont have is a smoker.
 
My question is could I make some good spares using a oven or Sham?
 
Thanks in advance.
post edited by Grits-N-Gravy - 2010/02/12 14:09:56
#1
kman160
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 14:21:10 (permalink)
good maybe-great doubtful
sauce does not make good good 'que, it masks the mistakes
low & slow with real wood is only way to go
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Ice Cream Man
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 14:24:12 (permalink)
I don't like smoked meat.
I should take a sh** kicking for saying that.
I think you can have good BBQ without smoking the hell out of it.
A lot of snow birds probably would agree.
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Ice Cream Man
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 14:27:42 (permalink)
No sauce for me just the clean cooked ribs that melt in your mouth, I love the taste of the meat.
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 14:33:55 (permalink)
kman160

good maybe-great doubtful
sauce does not make good good 'que, it masks the mistakes
low & slow with real wood is only way to go

The ribs will not be my signature dish, nor the foundation of my concept. My goal is to get as far as I can up the "good" ladder with the equipment I have.
 
I used to work for a chain that used a Alto Sham to cook them. They put the ribs on a grate in a hotel pan, poured liquid smoke in the bottom, foiled them up and cooked them overnight at about 225..In the morning we pulled them, portioned and wrapped them, then finished them on the grill to order.
 
I'd really appreciate any guidance on this.
 
Thanks

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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 14:35:24 (permalink)
Ice Cream Man

I don't like smoked meat.
I should take a sh** kicking for saying that.
I think you can have good BBQ without smoking the hell out of it.
A lot of snow birds probably would agree.


It isn't BBQ without the smoke, just Baked spicy ribs.
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kman160
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 15:13:26 (permalink)
noooooo-not liquid smoke
better no smoke flavoring than chemicals
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knifeguy
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 15:16:49 (permalink)
Plenty of places make good ribs without smoke...low and slow!
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 15:17:38 (permalink)
recipe?
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Russ Jackson
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 15:25:58 (permalink)
Spice rub your ribs with your favorite rub. Wrap twice in foil. Must be airtight. Cook for 3 hours at 225. Open foil and cool to room temp as this will release water so they wont be slushy. Refrigerate until ready to finish on grill with sauce. Finishing on grill: Get grill very hot and place rib side down on grill with a little sauce brushed on. This will give the bottom some color so they dont look grey. Once it starts burning brush top with sauce and flip for 60 secs. Repeat this for or five times until look and color are acheived...Russ
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 15:32:48 (permalink)
Russ Jackson

Spice rub your ribs with your favorite rub. Wrap twice in foil. Must be airtight. Cook for 3 hours at 225. Open foil and cool to room temp as this will release water so they wont be slushy. Refrigerate until ready to finish on grill with sauce. Finishing on grill: Get grill very hot and place rib side down on grill with a little sauce brushed on. This will give the bottom some color so they dont look grey. Once it starts burning brush top with sauce and flip for 60 secs. Repeat this for or five times until look and color are acheived...Russ

 
Thank you, Russ.  I dont have a convection here at the house, is the 3 hours at 225 the same for a regular gas oven?
 
I dont want to push my luck, but,I'd be thankful for a solid BBQ recipe too..I was actually considering buying in sauce, but If I could find a pretty simple scratch recipe, I'd prefer that.
 
Thanks
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 15:41:27 (permalink)
Now you might experiment with this
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/who-loves-ya-baby-back-recipe/index.html

Plus I use extra meaty Ribs Farmland
And have smokers outside. Just different, flavors different times.
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Russ Jackson
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 15:57:18 (permalink)
Standard oven. My BBQ Sauce is very labor intensive and I am not sure if I want it out there. Been working on it for 30 years and I am finally done. I will give you my rub recipe in the next couple days. It is labor intensive also and involves roasting spices and such. I will post it Monday here. You will never get the same results in an oven but you can make some great ribs in an oven. The best way to make ribs fast is in an Orion Cooker. Here is the link for the thread. You will find the thread very funny and informative. One of the top threads on roadfood and is must reading. However it is the best way to cook ribs outside of low and slow. I own one and it is a great product. You can cook 9 racks in less than 2 hours. You can buy one for about $129.
http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/Orion-Cooker-m258079.aspx

Here is a link to Orion
http://orionoutdoors.com/products/

.....Russ
post edited by Russ Jackson - 2010/02/12 16:04:00
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Grits-N-Gravy
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 16:33:25 (permalink)
Curbside Grill

Now you might experiment with this


Plus I use extra meaty Ribs Farmland
And have smokers outside. Just different, flavors different times.

thanks for the link Curb. Gonna try this one too.
As to the BBQ sauce, I friends with the owner of a pretty popular BBQ resto owner here in town. I may just buy my BBQ sauce from him, and give him credit on the menu. I really wont have time to do in depth rubs and sauces as I'm gonna be making Brushetta, Bries, Cobblers, cutting steaks, making meatloafs, dressings, etc, etc etc.
 
Thanks again for all the feedback. I hope I'll be able to repay the help here eventually.

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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 17:04:05 (permalink)
There are several ways ribs can be cooked properly and they are good meat, even a deluxe meal with any of them.  But it is not real BBQ with out wood or with liquid smoke.   More, I don't know why, if you want to develop your own following,  you'd want to glop someone elses sauce on meat and serve that.
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Dr of BBQ
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 18:20:13 (permalink)
If your going to serve steaks, chicken, pork chops, seafood off a hickory fired grill. Just get some frozen cheap steaks, junk chicken, thin pork chops, fake seafood and cook it all from the frozen state. Since your going to do crappy half way ribs best if the rest of your menu follows suit. Just think you could open and close in less than a year. WOW what a concept.

Excuse the sarcasm.

Your answer is no. You can make ribs tender, you can make ribs the right texture, you can give ribs the appearance (color) everyone looks for but they will never be acceptable to real BBQ fans.

BBQ restaurants open and close as often as other type restaurants (steak, seafood,fast food)  but the people that really like good BBQ are more particular than any other food group, that I know of.

Real BBQ cooks and just BBQ fans share one thing in common, and that is they (both groups) think they know exactly what good BBQ taste like.  Why try and fool someone and hurt your reputation?

Jack
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 18:27:15 (permalink)
Dr of BBQ

If your going to serve steaks, chicken, pork chops, seafood off a hickory fired grill. Just get some frozen cheap steaks, junk chicken, thin pork chops, fake seafood and cook it all from the frozen state. Since your going to do crappy half way ribs best if the rest of your menu follows suit. Just think you could open and close in less than a year. WOW what a concept.

Excuse the sarcasm.

Your answer is no. You can make ribs tender, you can make ribs the right texture, you can give ribs the appearance (color) everyone looks for but they will never be acceptable to real BBQ fans.

BBQ restaurants open and close as often as other type restaurants (steak, seafood,fast food)  but the people that really like good BBQ are more particular than any other food group, that I know of.

Real BBQ cooks and just BBQ fans share one thing in common, and that is they (both groups) think they know exactly what good BBQ taste like.  Why try and fool someone and hurt your reputation?

Jack

Glad to see your perception isnt skewered by your passion on a subject.
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Dr of BBQ
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/12 19:47:56 (permalink)
LMFAO it really doesn't. I'm serious as a heart attack, Real BBQ cooks and BBQ fans share one thing in common, and that is they both think they know exactly what great BBQ taste like. And I might add they'll both tell everyone they can get to listen, about who sells fake ribs.

While I'm on the topic, think about it this way, If you make chicken soup you boil the chicken. Your basicly boiling the taste out of the chicken.

So never boil ribs unless your making rib soup. And cooking them in an oven is the same thing.

Jack
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 07:40:00 (permalink)
Your initial question has seemed to morphed from cooking ribs into a discussion of what good BBQ is. I have to agree that wood is required and necessary for a genuine BBQ spareribs however Ribs can be very tasty without the smoke. The Chinese and Koreans have been doing it for a long time. I think that it is possible to Cook your ribs low and slow and finish them in a multitude of ways. Develope a Chinese style sauce, Korean, add ribs to a nice homemade sourkraut and call em German. I bet you can come up with a Southwestern style (without mesquite!). 
A spare rib is an inferior cut of meat that has to be handled just the way most inferior cuts have to be handled. Braised or low and slow. Thats how BBQ was invented. The cheaper cuts were given to the farm workers who developed this particular method of cooking it to make it more palatable and as you see...very popular! 
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 07:56:27 (permalink)
Dr of BBQ

LMFAO it really doesn't. I'm serious as a heart attack, Real BBQ cooks and BBQ fans share one thing in common, and that is they both think they know exactly what great BBQ taste like. And I might add they'll both tell everyone they can get to listen, about who sells fake ribs.

While I'm on the topic, think about it this way, If you make chicken soup you boil the chicken. Your basicly boiling the taste out of the chicken.

So never boil ribs unless your making rib soup. And cooking them in an oven is the same thing.

Jack

Its pretty obvious it does.
As to your "BBQ fan" comment...I'm a BBQ fan myself.I grew within a 1/2 mile either way of 2 of the older BBQ joints in Georgia (Finchers BBQ and Tuckers BBQ)..in Macon/
You are a BBQ purist,and thats awesome. You guys make the world a better place. If I want off the charts ribs, Ive got a couple of spots to go to.
That said, you realize that the vast majority of the dining out public arent BBQ purists like you, dont you?
 
The assertion that me adding non-smoked ribs (not frozen, fake, crappy quality, etc, just oven cooked)to my menu would expose me as someone trying to serve "fake BBQ", and "hurt my reputation" is just silly.
 
Thats like saying if I order pasta at a Steakhouse and because their pasta isnt made fresh in house, I would be outraged and  expose them for serving fake pasta. I realize when ordering Pasta from a steakhouse its not going to be authentic Italian restaurant quailty. This analogy holds with all restaurants. Ive been with people that order a burger at a BBQ joint, and guess what?? It wasnt as good as it would be at a Grill/Bar that specializes in burgers. I have enough sense to know to go with a restaurants signature items, and realize if I go with something other than that, its a crap shoot.
I think we can agree Chili's doesnt serve the best ribs around, but they made a dang song about them..and I havent had one BBQ expert run up to me to tell me to avoid Chili's because "the serve fake ribs"..If they did, I'd laugh at them.
 
If a BBQ guy comes to my restaurant, I would hope they would have the good sense to know we arent a BBQ joint, and stick to our strong suits..Grilled steaks, Chops, southern dishes, etc.
 
anyway, I hope I dissagreed without being too disagreeable..thanks.
post edited by Grits-N-Gravy - 2010/02/13 08:08:38
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Russ Jackson
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 08:06:31 (permalink)
I agree with you Dr of BBQ completely. BBQ isn't slapping something on a propane grill and burning some sugar on it. Liquid Smoke is terrible. But you can cook Ribs or just about any meat in an oven and get quality flavor. Just don't try to pass it of as BBQ. Baked Ribs can be excellent but are totally different from BBQd Ribs. Doing true BBQ is right at the top of the difficulty scale. Most home cooks would not even know where to buy or pick out the correct meat. Let alone have the time or patience to learn how to cook low and slow. Or the expense of a quality set up. Of course they could start on a Weber and work their way up. Most people could never produce great BBQ and to tell you the truth most do not even know what it tastes like. Proof is in the fact that places like Damons, Applebees, Big Boys, Lone Star and many others try to call it BBQ and people buy it...Just My Opinion...Russ

The only time you boil any meat is to make stock. And that would really be a simmer. I think if you boil meat you go to a bad place when you die. Treat the Animal that died for you with respect.
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 08:18:10 (permalink)
Grits-N-Gravy

Dr of BBQ

LMFAO it really doesn't. I'm serious as a heart attack, Real BBQ cooks and BBQ fans share one thing in common, and that is they both think they know exactly what great BBQ taste like. And I might add they'll both tell everyone they can get to listen, about who sells fake ribs.

While I'm on the topic, think about it this way, If you make chicken soup you boil the chicken. Your basicly boiling the taste out of the chicken.

So never boil ribs unless your making rib soup. And cooking them in an oven is the same thing.

Jack

Its pretty obvious it does.
As to your "BBQ fan" comment...I'm a BBQ fan myself.I grew within a 1/2 mile either way of 2 of the older BBQ joints in Georgia (Finchers BBQ and Tuckers BBQ)..in Macon/
You are a BBQ purist,and thats awesome. You guys make the world a better place. If I want off the charts ribs, Ive got a couple of spots to go to.
That said, you realize that the vast majority of the dining out public arent BBQ purists like you, dont you?
 
The assertion that me adding non-smoked ribs (not frozen, fake, crappy quality, etc, just oven cooked)to my menu would expose me as someone trying to serve "fake BBQ", and "hurt my reputation" is just silly.
 
Thats like saying if I order pasta at a Steakhouse and because their pasta isnt made fresh in house, I would be outraged and  expose them for serving fake pasta. I realize when ordering Pasta from a steakhouse its not going to be authentic Italian restaurant quailty. This analogy holds with all restaurants. Ive been with people that order a burger at a BBQ joint, and guess what?? It wasnt as good as it would be at a Grill/Bar that specializes in burgers. I have enough sense to know to go with a restaurants signature items, and realize if I go with something other than that, its a crap shoot.
I think we can agree Chili's doesnt serve the best ribs around, but they made a dang song about them..and I havent had one BBQ expert run up to me to tell me to avoid Chili's because "the serve fake ribs"..If they did, I'd laugh at them.
 
If a BBQ guy comes to my restaurant, I would hope they would have the good sense to know we arent a BBQ joint, and stick to our strong suits..Grilled steaks, Chops, southern dishes, etc.
 
anyway, I hope I dissagreed without being too disagreeable..thanks.

I'm on board here.
Going to Mamas Catfish House and having a RUNZA.  lol
Hell look at fast food, I'm going to KFC for Fish sandwich.
Going to Spagetti Warehouse and get a Tuna fish Sandwich.
 
 
We seem to go out with big crowds. some order steaks, some order Italian and yet some brave soul orders Fried chicken.
  
 
post edited by Curbside Grill - 2010/02/13 08:28:59
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 08:26:02 (permalink)
Not trying to pick nits, but as to the "you never boil meat" comments, If you intend on making a good mess of southern style beans you have to boil  hamhock in the water to start with.
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 08:41:34 (permalink)
Can I suggest something here that is big time at my house.
Hell with the ribs, GO to Sams talk to people in meat Dept., Country Style ribs , 1- 1.5lbs cut.
Do these anyway you want, call a day ahead, they cut and pack for you. am picking up a load on Mon.
Rest. people and individuals here get NY Strips at 1.5-2 inch cuts all the time.
For use a good brased Country Style rib, rice, Mac Cheese and whatever veggie offering. Pot'likker and cornbread. Oh My be there.
'Nana Pudding, Sweet Tea
post edited by Curbside Grill - 2010/02/13 08:44:46
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 08:43:05 (permalink)
also I dont know how you would make Chicken-N-Dumplings, or Chicken Pot Pie without boiling the chicken...

anyways, I'm going to play around with the recipes Russ, and Curb provided, and I'm gonna make some BAKED SPARE RIBS with BBQ sauce so good, Dr. Of BBQ is gonna want to go in business with me!!
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 08:45:31 (permalink)
Curbside Grill

Can I suggest something here that is big time at my house.
Hell with the ribs, GO to Sams talk to people in meat Dept., Country Style ribs , 1- 1.5lbs cut.
Do these anyway you want, call a day ahead, they cut and pack for you. am picking up a load on Mon.
Rest. people and individuals here get NY Strips at 1.5-2 inch cuts all the time.
For use a good brased Country Style rib, rice and whatever vegie offering. Pot'likker and cornbread.

Thats a really good idea...Ive got a darn good Country Rib recipe,too...I could serve it over a bed of rice, and call it a day.
Thanks!
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 08:52:07 (permalink)


==anyway, I hope I disagreed without being too disagreeable..thanks. ===

I always wondered how the rest of the world ate their ribs before America invented BBQ...?
My experience with smoke as a requisite necessity for ribs ( or BBQ in general) is recent, within the last 15 years. Prior to that, I made mine without any long smoking.  BBQ as it is now wasn't the norm before then. Slapping a tri-tip on a open grill with Kingsford charcoal was mighty fine eating.

What I used to do was pre-grill the ribs, putting cross marks on the outside and searing them so the meat had color and to keep the succulence inside. It would firm up the outside and prevent it from becoming mushy meat on a bone.  I would cook them in a covered roasting pan for a period of time.  I did not boil them, but they were steamed and the moisture was retained.
When I had a order, I slapped them on the grill, reinforcing the appearance.  A glaze of sauce and they looked fine. That was then....

 Do not focus on the word "BBQ" in your description.  Focus on what you are doing.  That is your selling point that will offset any consideration of true BBQ.  You are not claiming to be one anyway. Think in terms such as:
Flame Broiled
Hickory Kissed
Wood Grilled
Steakhouse Style

Some of the more recent models of Alto- Sham do have the ability to smoke. They have a little box at the bottom near the heating elements. You will get the flavor, but will not get the smoke coloring that is important to a place that specializes in BBQ.
That said, if you want the appearance of a pinkish smoke ring, the Chinese do have a method for that. They have been cooking ribs way before America was discovered....

mark
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Russ Jackson
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 09:05:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Grits-N-Gravy

also I dont know how you would make Chicken-N-Dumplings, or Chicken Pot Pie without boiling the chicken...

anyways, I'm going to play around with the recipes Russ, and Curb provided, and I'm gonna make some BAKED SPARE RIBS with BBQ sauce so good, Dr. Of BBQ is gonna want to go in business with me!!

 
You would not boil the chicken or ham hock. You would bring it to boil then drop down to a low simmer. Then it would be covered and skimmed during the process. Boiling would cause the water to deplete far too quickly and destroy the meat. There is a big difference between Boiling and Simmering...Russ

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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 09:07:20 (permalink)
Will post pic of 1.5lb Later, have to pick up first.
But have 60 year old orphans  that want to be adopted. LOL
Never a slow moment at our place. I moved here for peace and quiet. LOL
Wife gets mad 8 for dinner.
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Re:BBQ spare ribs question 2010/02/13 09:48:09 (permalink)
Grits-N-Gravy

From looking at some pics here, I know I'm in the right place.
 
I'm working on my menu and am  undecided on offering ribs. My concept is grill heavy (no pastas), and I would like to offer ribs. Doing steaks, chicken, pork chops, seafood off a hickory fired grill.
 
I have a couple of uses for BBQ sauce, so I'll already have that on hand.
 
What I wont have is a smoker.
 
My question is could I make some good spares using a oven or Sham?
 
Thanks in advance.

I think you will find a lot of customers that like your food.

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