Beer Bust

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Adjudicator
Sirloin
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2005/02/12 07:39:05 (permalink)

Beer Bust

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=817&ncid=757&e=10&u=/ap/20050211/ap_on_fe_st/beer_bust
#1

27 Replies Related Threads

    nvb
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/12 07:54:30 (permalink)
    He deserves to be fired just because of his beer choice.
    #2
    tiki
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/12 08:37:32 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Slick

    He deserves to be fired just because of his beer choice.


    I'll second that!
    #3
    UncleVic
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/12 16:19:49 (permalink)
    Both them brews bite... But to get fired over what you do (legally) on your personal time is going overboard.. Have a simlar situation here in Michigan... Have a couple companys firing you if you smoke at home...
    #4
    cheesehead
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/13 02:33:22 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by UncleVic

    Both them brews bite... But to get fired over what you do (legally) on your personal time is going overboard.. Have a simlar situation here in Michigan... Have a couple companys firing you if you smoke at home...


    Agreed, both brews bite, HOWEVER, you should support the company that puts food on your table. By drinking the out of state swill, he was, in effect, supporting the competition. I would have fired him too.
    #5
    frognot
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/13 03:41:39 (permalink)
    Having your picture in the paper drinking a diet beer & getting canned for it. Would definitely drive ya to drink . . .
    #6
    Green_Chile
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/13 04:14:40 (permalink)
    What's next? The person working for Northern TP getting axed for using Charmin? Things are starting to get outta hand with these companies these days.
    #7
    UncleVic
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/13 05:02:28 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by cheesehead

    quote:
    Originally posted by UncleVic

    Both them brews bite... But to get fired over what you do (legally) on your personal time is going overboard.. Have a simlar situation here in Michigan... Have a couple companys firing you if you smoke at home...


    Agreed, both brews bite, HOWEVER, you should support the company that puts food on your table. By drinking the out of state swill, he was, in effect, supporting the competition. I would have fired him too.


    Hopefully the competition gives him a job! Would be even better publicity for them! (As long as the employee dont change his tastes in swill)..
    #8
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/13 09:14:40 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by UncleVic

    quote:
    Originally posted by cheesehead

    quote:
    Originally posted by UncleVic

    Both them brews bite... But to get fired over what you do (legally) on your personal time is going overboard.. Have a simlar situation here in Michigan... Have a couple companys firing you if you smoke at home...


    Agreed, both brews bite, HOWEVER, you should support the company that puts food on your table. By drinking the out of state swill, he was, in effect, supporting the competition. I would have fired him too.


    Hopefully the competition gives him a job! Would be even better publicity for them! (As long as the employee dont change his tastes in swill)..



    Ah yes; similar to Jared in the SUBWAY adds.


    And as far as Budweiser goes, I think "the original" is a damn good beer...



    http://www.budvar.cz/budvar/budvar-web/product/produkt_eng.html
    #9
    michaelgemmell
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/13 17:04:37 (permalink)
    Hopefully this man has hired a good attorney. He should be able to collect a settlement from his former employers sufficient to support himself and his family the rest of his life. His former employer probably supports so-called "tort reform" which is a code phrase for "no ordinary person may sue the rich and powerful."

    Unless the employee signed a contract stating he wouldn't consume competing products, the former employer is clearly guilty of violiating his constitutional right to free speech. The only message greedy corporations understand is money, which is why I hope the employee gets a huge settlement.

    Regardless of what beer you think is good, do you really want to be fired for something you do that is none your employer's business?
    #10
    cheesehead
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/14 20:47:11 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originily posted by michaelgemmell

    .............

    Regardless of what beer you think is good, do you really want to be fired for something you do that is none your employer's business?


    I wouldn't want this guy working for me. That picture says more about what he thinks about the beer, than what he thinks about his employer. That picture tells me two things about the guy. One, while he works for a Miller Distributor, Bud is a better product. Second, and more importantly, it tells the employer that the guy is just putting in his time at work, and has no loyalty to his job.
    #11
    CNW
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/15 02:33:22 (permalink)
    I have to disagree with those who say his employer was justified. I know of two similiar cases. I agreed with the firing of one but not the other.

    In the first case about fifteen years ago a family from Alabama or Mississippi won the Grand Prize in a Pepsi sweepstakes. His kids preferred Pepsi, so that was what his wife bought. He was a delivery driver for Coke. Coke fired him, and Pepsi hired him. They also ran a local commerical about it. Coke ended up with a lot of egg on their face. If Coke had kept quiet and just let it ride, they wouldn't have had to spend advertising dollers to overcome the bad publicity.

    In the other case that I know of, a Dominoes Pizza manager was fired because he was eating lunch on a regular basis at Pizza Hut. What makes this case different is that he was parking the company car with Dominoes advertising in the Pizza Hut parking lot when he was eating lunch. The Pizza Hut manager took a picture and sent it in to the company newsletter.

    What makes the difference for me is that in one case the persons employer was identified in the photo. In the other case, they were not. So, unless the photo had him in his Miller work clothes, or the caption identified Miller as his employer, they should not have fired him.
    #12
    ScreamingChicken
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/15 09:09:58 (permalink)
    Just to keep things clear, the fellow in question was an employee of a Miller distributor, not of Miller Brewing itself. Miller Brewing has stated that it has no policy on the issue:

    http://www.channel3000.com/news/4191531/detail.html

    To me the most amusing thing is that he refers to Bud Light as "a great beer".

    Brad
    #13
    michaelgemmell
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/15 14:56:40 (permalink)
    cnw, I think you've done a fine job showing how this depends on the situation. I would have a problem with someone using a marked company car to patronize a competing business. Hopefully, the pizza manager was given a warning. I used to work for the federal government, and we were forbidden to make any personal use of government vehicles, most especially to go to lunch, and I think that's as it should be.

    Brad, thanks for posting that article from the Madison television station. Did you take their poll? 90% of the respondents feel the beer distributor was not justified in firing the employee.
    #14
    ScreamingChicken
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/16 09:08:24 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by michaelgemmell

    Brad, thanks for posting that article from the Madison television station. Did you take their poll? 90% of the respondents feel the beer distributor was not justified in firing the employee.
    I'm usually not one for online polls so I skipped it. However, I'm kind of surprised that the number wasn't higher than 90%...must be the non-Madisonians dragging the number down. I'm sure the story's also mentioned at http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com; if that station also did a poll it'd be interesting to see if the numbers are significantly different than the Madison ("Berkeley of the Midwest") numbers.

    Brad
    #15
    michaelgemmell
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/16 16:14:41 (permalink)
    I had friends who attended college in Madison, so I understand your reference. What a nice thing to say about Madison!
    #16
    michaelgemmell
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/17 14:07:49 (permalink)
    Today's San Francisco Chronicle carries an op-ed piece by Chron columnist Debra Saunders that is germaine to this issue. Saunders is something of a reactionary (sorry, the term "conservative" is vastly misused in our country), so consider that before you think, "liberal bias in the paper from SF," especially since the Chron today also carries a letter to the editor that neatly proves the Chron DOES NOT have a liberal bias.

    You need never register or pay the Chron to use its website, sfgate.com. Here's the article:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/02/17/EDGH1BA4PC1.DTL
    #17
    Oneiron339
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/17 16:57:05 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by michaelgemmell

    Hopefully this man has hired a good attorney. He should be able to collect a settlement from his former employers sufficient to support himself and his family the rest of his life. His former employer probably supports so-called "tort reform" which is a code phrase for "no ordinary person may sue the rich and powerful."

    Unless the employee signed a contract stating he wouldn't consume competing products, the former employer is clearly guilty of violiating his constitutional right to free speech. The only message greedy corporations understand is money, which is why I hope the employee gets a huge settlement.

    Regardless of what beer you think is good, do you really want to be fired for something you do that is none your employer's business?

    Since Wisconsin is an "employment-at-will" state, the guy can be fired for any reason as long as it doesn't discriminate based on some categories like age, sex, race, etc. The company doesn't have to give a reason for firing him. The employee says he was fired for this reason. Granted, Miller will have egg on it's face, but they don't have to admit to why he was fired. I agree with the company.
    #18
    Adjudicator
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/17 19:31:38 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by oneiron339

    quote:
    Originally posted by michaelgemmell

    Hopefully this man has hired a good attorney. He should be able to collect a settlement from his former employers sufficient to support himself and his family the rest of his life. His former employer probably supports so-called "tort reform" which is a code phrase for "no ordinary person may sue the rich and powerful."

    Unless the employee signed a contract stating he wouldn't consume competing products, the former employer is clearly guilty of violiating his constitutional right to free speech. The only message greedy corporations understand is money, which is why I hope the employee gets a huge settlement.

    Regardless of what beer you think is good, do you really want to be fired for something you do that is none your employer's business?

    Since Wisconsin is an "employment-at-will" state, the guy can be fired for any reason as long as it doesn't discriminate based on some categories like age, sex, race, etc. The company doesn't have to give a reason for firing him. The employee says he was fired for this reason. Granted, Miller will have egg on it's face, but they don't have to admit to why he was fired. I agree with the company.


    True, while many states have the "employment-at-will" stipulation; termination of employment still has to be for a valid reason. As far as I can see, this employee did nothing wrong while he was "on-the-clock". Employers have no jurisdiction (to a general degree), what their employees do off the clock. I hope said employee sues the hell out of his former employer.
    #19
    ScreamingChicken
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/18 09:12:04 (permalink)
    With the amount of exposure the initial story's received I'll be surprised if the final outcome isn't publicized. I'll have to keep my eyes open.

    I also wouldn't be surprised if there are some details that haven't been made available to the public...

    Brad
    #20
    Oneiron339
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/18 10:18:03 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Adjudicator

    quote:
    Originally posted by oneiron339

    quote:
    Originally posted by michaelgemmell

    Hopefully this man has hired a good attorney. He should be able to collect a settlement from his former employers sufficient to support himself and his family the rest of his life. His former employer probably supports so-called "tort reform" which is a code phrase for "no ordinary person may sue the rich and powerful."

    Unless the employee signed a contract stating he wouldn't consume competing products, the former employer is clearly guilty of violiating his constitutional right to free speech. The only message greedy corporations understand is money, which is why I hope the employee gets a huge settlement.

    Regardless of what beer you think is good, do you really want to be fired for something you do that is none your employer's business?

    Since Wisconsin is an "employment-at-will" state, the guy can be fired for any reason as long as it doesn't discriminate based on some categories like age, sex, race, etc. The company doesn't have to give a reason for firing him. The employee says he was fired for this reason. Granted, Miller will have egg on it's face, but they don't have to admit to why he was fired. I agree with the company.


    True, while many states have the "employment-at-will" stipulation; termination of employment still has to be for a valid reason. As far as I can see, this employee did nothing wrong while he was "on-the-clock". Employers have no jurisdiction (to a general degree), what their employees do off the clock. I hope said employee sues the hell out of his former employer.
    That's not the way "employment-at-will" works. You DON'T have to specify why you terminate someone. There doesn't have to be a reason as long as it doesn't violate any civil rights or related statute. The company never specified why the termination occurred - and doesn't have to. The guy could have gotten more mileage by saying the termination was age or racially motivated. I dislike Miller Beer but again, I'm with the company on this one.

    Also, Brad above, makes a good point. The guy may have been a marginal employee and this event could have triggered the firing. He could have been "playing footsie" w/ the boss' wife on the side. That too, would have happened outside the scope of the job. We don't know all the facts.
    #21
    garykg6
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/18 11:08:45 (permalink)
    Let the guy keep his job,nobody is going to lose out because this came up,free country and all that....people need to relax,like roadfooders do,just relax
    the best beer(domestic) I ever had was in Madison (MICHAELGEMMEL please note),,,,,Augsburger Ocktoberfest.....what a brew!!, nice town as well,they even let me in at the 'Brauhouse' where I looked like someone's grandfather.
    #22
    michaelgemmell
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/18 15:19:10 (permalink)
    We're forming our opinions based on the information given. Adding a "what if" is not a good way of bolstering your opinion. However, if this employee was not doing good work, the employer would have solid written records documenting that, and could cite those records. Have they?

    What's more, it seems as if "work at will" is NOT working if an employer can fire an employee for no good reason. The fact that many localities do not offer protection against discrimination in the work place does not make it right--just easier for employers to take advantage of workers.

    #23
    Oneiron339
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/18 15:41:06 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by michaelgemmell

    We're forming our opinions based on the information given. Adding a "what if" is not a good way of bolstering your opinion. However, if this employee was not doing good work, the employer would have solid written records documenting that, and could cite those records. Have they?

    What's more, it seems as if "work at will" is NOT working if an employer can fire an employee for no good reason. The fact that many localities do not offer protection against discrimination in the work place does not make it right--just easier for employers to take advantage of workers.


    That's precisely what the "at-will" principle is, and besides, it's the LAW in many states. Without it, you'd have to have reams of paper to be able to fire someone. Look how hard it is to fire incompetent teachers (or professors) and government employees.
    #24
    Adjudicator
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/19 12:30:02 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by oneiron339

    quote:
    Originally posted by michaelgemmell

    We're forming our opinions based on the information given. Adding a "what if" is not a good way of bolstering your opinion. However, if this employee was not doing good work, the employer would have solid written records documenting that, and could cite those records. Have they?

    What's more, it seems as if "work at will" is NOT working if an employer can fire an employee for no good reason. The fact that many localities do not offer protection against discrimination in the work place does not make it right--just easier for employers to take advantage of workers.


    That's precisely what the "at-will" principle is, and besides, it's the LAW in many states. Without it, you'd have to have reams of paper to be able to fire someone. Look how hard it is to fire incompetent teachers (or professors) and government employees.


    Uno MOMENTO, por favor!!!!!!!!
    I am a government employee of the state of GA; a state that empowers the "at will" principle"". To say that an employer of anyone anywhere that uses the "at will" terminology has the power to fire anyone without a reason (discriminority laws understood); and not to have a recourse of action...; is bull****.
    I see you are also from GA, oneiron339...

    #25
    Oneiron339
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/20 18:46:54 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Adjudicator

    quote:
    Originally posted by oneiron339

    quote:
    Originally posted by michaelgemmell

    We're forming our opinions based on the information given. Adding a "what if" is not a good way of bolstering your opinion. However, if this employee was not doing good work, the employer would have solid written records documenting that, and could cite those records. Have they?

    What's more, it seems as if "work at will" is NOT working if an employer can fire an employee for no good reason. The fact that many localities do not offer protection against discrimination in the work place does not make it right--just easier for employers to take advantage of workers.


    That's precisely what the "at-will" principle is, and besides, it's the LAW in many states. Without it, you'd have to have reams of paper to be able to fire someone. Look how hard it is to fire incompetent teachers (or professors) and government employees.


    Uno MOMENTO, por favor!!!!!!!!
    I am a government employee of the state of GA; a state that empowers the "at will" principle"". To say that an employer of anyone anywhere that uses the "at will" terminology has the power to fire anyone without a reason (discriminority laws understood); and not to have a recourse of action...; is bull****.
    I see you are also from GA, oneiron339... Just read and understand the law. I have been practicing this for over 20 years in GA and am quite familiar with it.


    #26
    nvb
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/20 19:26:39 (permalink)
    I had me one of those gubmint jobs here in Texas ("at will state" ) for 29 years, and here you work "at the leisure" of your employer. I know cause I was investigating whether I could sue the guy I working for at one point, but after finding this out I just sat tight and in the end everything worked out.
    #27
    Oneiron339
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    RE: Beer Bust 2005/02/21 07:34:29 (permalink)
    Hey ADJ: FYI
    Employees in the USA are divided into two classes:
    at-will employees
    just-cause employees

    An at-will employee in the USA can be terminated at any time, and for any reason – or no reason at all – and the courts will generally not intervene to protect the ex-employee from allegedly unfair treatment by the employer.

    Just cause employees can be dismissed from employment only for a good reason, such as poor job performance by the employee.

    Also, in GA you are somewhat protected as a state employee because of the state merit protection board (as are many govt employees) But in general the at will principle prevails. Apology accepted.
    #28
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