Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay?

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wanderingjew
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 14:52:39 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by billyboy

I've never had a good slice from Ray Bari's, any of the various Famous Ray's/Famous Original Ray's/Original Famous Ray's (with the exception of the Prince St. location actually called just "Ray's"),


I have to disagree... The slices at Rays ( the "alledged" original one in Greenwich Village on 6th ave at 12 street) have always been excellent. In fact I've yet to have a spinach slice ANYWHERE as good as the one served there!
#31
Davydd
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 15:09:43 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by porkbeaks

quote:
Originally posted by Pigiron

quote:
Originally posted by MetroplexJim

These ovens which cook the pie at temps of 700 - 1000 degrees have led to great "gourmet" pies I've enjoyed all over the country



1000 degrees??? Do they really get that hot? That sounds like it would scorch and melt anything that came within 50 feet of the oven, including the pizza, the peel, and the arms of the chef!

[url='http://video.google.it/videoplay?docid=3527298901888342949&q=pizzafest']Here's[/url] an excellent quality Italian video that shows a pizza being cooked in under a minute. It doesn't indicate the temp, but I'll bet it's at least 1000 degrees.


After viewing this I went onto Youtube.com and search "wood fired pizza" for more examples. I was amazed how many people have built backyard wood fired pizza ovens. Now I am inspired to go to the next step. I want to build one in my backyard! Then Wandering Jew I will treat you to the absolutely very best considering no commercial pizza joint can stay in business with the investment of ingredients I am willing to put into a pizza of my own at home. My Margherita pizzas start out with $8 worth of fresh basil and buffalo mozzarella cheese alone.
#32
wmceaton
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 15:29:35 (permalink)
Love the crust & underside slightly burnt. The crust in the picture is a little too done for my tastes...but not by much.
That burnt crust being used to mop up the oil left over in the pan accompanied by an ice cold cheap American beer (PBR, Rolling Rock or Genny) with Sinatra on the juke box...really tough to beat.


#33
porkbeaks
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 15:42:50 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Davydd

quote:
Originally posted by porkbeaks

quote:
Originally posted by Pigiron

quote:
Originally posted by MetroplexJim

These ovens which cook the pie at temps of 700 - 1000 degrees have led to great "gourmet" pies I've enjoyed all over the country



1000 degrees??? Do they really get that hot? That sounds like it would scorch and melt anything that came within 50 feet of the oven, including the pizza, the peel, and the arms of the chef!

[url='http://video.google.it/videoplay?docid=3527298901888342949&q=pizzafest']Here's[/url] an excellent quality Italian video that shows a pizza being cooked in under a minute. It doesn't indicate the temp, but I'll bet it's at least 1000 degrees.


After viewing this I went onto Youtube.com and search "wood fired pizza" for more examples. I was amazed how many people have built backyard wood fired pizza ovens. Now I am inspired to go to the next step. I want to build one in my backyard! Then Wandering Jew I will treat you to the absolutely very best considering no commercial pizza joint can stay in business with the investment of ingredients I am willing to put into a pizza of my own at home. My Margherita pizzas start out with $8 worth of fresh basil and buffalo mozzarella cheese alone.


As you may have noticed, this pizza oven has excited a lot of folks over at pizzamaking.com.
http://www.2stonepg.com/2stone-pizza-ove.html
#34
Twinwillow
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 16:01:11 (permalink)
I'm sorry but, imho, that pie in the first picture of this thread looks way too burnt to me.
#35
Davydd
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 17:15:21 (permalink)
Here is another video making a simple Margherita pizza in a wood fired oven in Italy. The hostess is a must see.

http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/pizza_margherita
#36
UncleVic
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 17:38:26 (permalink)
Davydd.. If you do a search here, some lady had a thread on her husband building one a couple three years ago..
#37
Roy
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 18:09:35 (permalink)
As a big fan of New Haven coal fired brick oven apizza, even I have to say the edge of the apizza shown is a little "over the edge" in degree of doneness. Parts of that crust have gone to inedible charcoal though the rest of the pie looks good. I personally prefer Modern for red pies though nobody can touch Pepe's for the white clam. At Modern, when ordering you can specify regular, well done or burnt. Usually you get what you request though it's not an exact science.
I do think it is a fairly narrow geographical preference for the well done versions. I commented on a photo of the day a few weeks back of a pizza from a place in Onset, Ma. It looked to me like it needed some more oven time but nobody else seemed to agree.
#38
MetroplexJim
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 18:16:00 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by MetroplexJim

quote:
Originally posted by Pigiron

quote:
Originally posted by MetroplexJim

These ovens which cook the pie at temps of 700 - 1000 degrees have led to great "gourmet" pies I've enjoyed all over the country



1000 degrees??? Do they really get that hot? That sounds like it would scorch and melt anything that came within 50 feet of the oven, including the pizza, the peel, and the arms of the chef!


We;re going there for lunch today. I'll report what (a reported: http://www.guidelive.com/portal/page?_pageid=33,97400&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL&item_id=55833) "1000 degrees does.


Our lunch pie seemed to be done in an instant. It was wonderful - a few darker spots on the bottom and edges, but no char. They said the temp was "nearly 1000 degrees". Whatever the temp, the result was worth the trip down to U. Park.
#39
Michael Hoffman
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 18:30:07 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Davydd

Here is another video making a simple Margherita pizza in a wood fired oven in Italy. The hostess is a must see.

http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/pizza_margherita


That is one delicious looking hostess.
#40
MetroplexJim
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 18:40:59 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:
Originally posted by Davydd

Here is another video making a simple Margherita pizza in a wood fired oven in Italy. The hostess is a must see.

http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/pizza_margherita


That is one delicious looking hostess.


I agree! So, I turned off all the filtersand "image googled her". Her pics came up courtesy of "Stars and Stripes"; she is married to a VERY LUCKY lieutenant in the USN!
#41
JBarry713
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 19:12:55 (permalink)
I love it burnt, though if the end crust is anymore burnt than the way it is in the original post's photo then the crust starts to lose its bread flavor and starts tasting a little too much like ash. I've been to both the original and Fairfield Pepe's many times, every time the end crust has a nice "char" but would fall short of what I would call "burnt." The pizza above seems to stradle the lines for me, possibly slightly overcooked, but it still seems very tasty.
#42
Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 19:28:20 (permalink)
There does seem to be something else going on with these "burnt crust" pies. What I mean is, when I make pizza at home, if there's any blackened crust, it tastes burned, like burned toast. Not so at Pepe's, and other hot-oven pizzerias. What I think is happening is that the super high oven heat scorches the surface but leaves the insides unburned. When I cook pizza at home in a 500 degree oven, by the time the crust is scorched, it burns all the way through.
#43
Davydd
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 20:42:27 (permalink)
BB&SB, Since you have eaten at Frank Pepe's I think your explanation makes sense. Our new oven with a maximum of 550 degrees in a one rack high space makes all the difference in my home pizzas per the picture I posted on the previous page. I won't get charred but I will get a nicely leopard look.
#44
ann peeples
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 21:01:16 (permalink)
I love the term "leoparding"-never knew that.Apparently, that is what I like!!!
#45
Davydd
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 21:07:53 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by annpeeples

I love the term "leoparding"-never knew that.Apparently, that is what I like!!!

I too learned the term right here in this message thread and like it too.
#46
Bruce Bilmes and Susan Boyle
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 21:12:03 (permalink)
Davydd, I think those extra 50 degrees help. The problem with homemade pizza, if you're a crust person, is you have to leave the pie in the oven too long, at those relatively low temperatures, in order to cook the pizza. The crust suffers. Our pies taste pretty good, all things considered, but not as good as the best pies we can get out, and our crust is the weakest link. For us, Pepe's is the gold standard for pizza crust.
#47
Davydd
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 21:27:52 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Bilmes & Sue Boyle

Davydd, I think those extra 50 degrees help. The problem with homemade pizza, if you're a crust person, is you have to leave the pie in the oven too long, at those relatively low temperatures, in order to cook the pizza. The crust suffers. Our pies taste pretty good, all things considered, but not as good as the best pies we can get out, and our crust is the weakest link. For us, Pepe's is the gold standard for pizza crust.

Heat and a pre-heated stone to bake on top of. The pizzas I made this week without a peel had to go into a gas oven at 500 degrees. I had to cook on an aluminum pan that I in turn placed on the stone for instant contact heat. It took about 12 to 14 minutes to bake those pizzas. At my home with our new oven that is shallow in height and heats to 550 degrees my pizzas directly on a stone are baking in 8 minutes and it does make a difference.

This is the GE Profile electric double oven we have with the shallow top oven ideal for pizzas. I love it.


#48
Ashphalt
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 21:59:25 (permalink)
This thread is bringing me back.

Growing up in RI in the 60s there were pizza joints and good pizza restaurants and then there was just pizza from department and convenience stores. Of course, there was also Caserta's, which was thick crust (not as thick as what we now call Sicilian, but it was considered Sicilian by the Sicilians).

What my folks considered to be good pizza, from a pizza restaurant, was deckled black. I guess that's what you call "leopard." Blacked all around the crust like some of the Connecticut specimens shown here was called burned, which was a special order. The Contis in our neighborhood who ran a restaurant, and my Grandfather's restaurant clients, all claimed you couldn't cook a pizza without a high heat oven. Most of them used gas pizza ovens, but they cranked.

Then when the first energy crisis hit in the 70s the crusts stopped being blackened. People were eating out less, the restaurants couldn't afford to keep those ovens cranking on high all the time, and it was more to the kids' tastes like Caserta's.

Those blackened crusts remind me of an earlier day. I know I didn't like them as a child, but I'll bet they'd taste pretty good to me now.
#49
thediningroom
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 22:04:55 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by UncleVic

Ok.. I see all these folks on the East Coast bragging about their burnt crust pizza. Here, and I speak as a former Pizza Shop worker in the Midwest, a burnt crust could get you shot! Actually if you over brown them around here you're getting returns. May be a regional deal, but honestly, these burnt crusts are not for me either..

One of the reviews: http://www.roadfood.com/Reviews/Overview.aspx?RefID=5224
One of the pics:


I agree with you UncleVic, our deep - dish thick crust pizza beats that thin cracker crust east coast/N.Y style anyday. Some flamers will probably take that as a bash against NYC, no, I love NYC I go there monthly on business, I just think their pizza is no better than frozen pizza from the supermarket, and I don't mean the gourmet frozen pizza. I mean, Jenos, Tony's etc.....
#50
Michael Hoffman
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 22:16:52 (permalink)
I grew up in New Haven and I am unfamiliar with thin cracker crust pies.
#51
porkbeaks
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 22:30:56 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by thediningroom

I agree with you UncleVic, our deep - dish thick crust pizza beats that thin cracker crust east coast/N.Y style anyday. Some flamers will probably take that as a bash against NYC, no, I love NYC I go there monthly on business, I just think their pizza is no better than frozen pizza from the supermarket, and I don't mean the gourmet frozen pizza. I mean, Jenos, Tony's etc.....


You've obviously been eating at the wrong pizza joints on your many visits to New York City. Cracker crust and N.Y. style are two distinctly different pizzas. Also, I don't think you know what you are talking about when it comes to food in general or you would never compare true NY pizza to Jeno's, Tony's, etc.... You, sir, are the flamer in this group and the provocative nature of the majority of your posts proves it. pb
#52
dannybotz
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/27 22:43:03 (permalink)
quote:
I just think their pizza is no better than frozen pizza from the supermarket, and I don't mean the gourmet frozen pizza. I mean, Jenos, Tony's etc.....


Dining room Dining room Dining room......

You are absolutely right!! Lombardis, Johns, Patsy's, Grimaldis, Frank Pepes, Joe and Pat's, shall i go on???? they all are no better than a frozen Jenos or tonys pizza!!!

I really want some of what you are on my friend!! I dont think ill ever take you seriously again!! I know everyone has their own tastes but that is just such an unbelievable statement i just had to chime in!! As lousy as MOST of chicagos pizza is I would never compare it to crap as you have done!!Next time your in New York you can get a great steak at TAD'S than go home and slam Our Steakhouses too!!
#53
Michael Hoffman
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/28 00:42:57 (permalink)
The thing to remember about this diningroom poster is that he used another name to ask whether Morton's was like Ponderosa and Texas Steak House -- or was it Longhorn? -- then, using this diningroom name, owned up to trolling.
#54
unabashed
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/28 01:39:03 (permalink)
thats something to think about...
#55
UncleVic
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/28 01:45:08 (permalink)
Whoa there.. I never mentioned anything about the thickness of a crust. I lover cracker, and I love normal thickness crusts... Just not the ones burnt. That was all. But in all honesty, if the crust in the picture was not burnt (and you know the bottom is crusty black as well), it would make for a fine tasting pizza! I love the grease on top of the cheese from the sausage and pepperoni. We had a shop here in town 20 years ago called Russo's that put out one of the finest greasiest pizzas you ever ate. Pure heaven from days gone bye.

#56
unabashed
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/28 02:16:12 (permalink)
I'm just messing with hoffman Vic....
#57
boyardee65
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/28 04:16:10 (permalink)
I love "burnt crust" if you mean dark golden color on the bottom and sides. I always order my pizza well done as I like it crispy. I used to work in a small bistro and our brick oven ran about 700 - 750 degrees. It only took about 5 minutes to cook a pie. Always had that dark charcoal color on the bottom and everybody loved it! I wish I had a fire place at home so I could rig something up to get that wonderful flavor at home but, alas no hope for me here in Wickenburg AZ.

David O.
#58
Davydd
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/28 08:46:44 (permalink)
Until I actually taste Pepe's pizza I am going with Bruce and Sue's explanation that the high heat only sears the outer surface and does not actually burn the crust. If so, it should taste pretty good. You cannot always judge by looks. If that were the case Madison Avenue and major food companies and chain restaurants would have us all bamboozled with their slick presentations. Er, it actually works it seems for Papa Johns.
#59
MiamiDon
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RE: Burnt Pizza Crust - Yay or Nay? 2007/12/28 09:46:07 (permalink)
Boy, I'd better check out those frozen pizzas again! You say they are like this one?



Pie from Luzzo's in lower Manhatten, NYC
#60
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