Buying the turkey ...

We're brining our turkey for the first time this year ...

Last few years, we'd had a bird raised by a friend ... but not this year.

So, I'm paying a little more attention to the turkey we'll buy.

Hens? Toms?

Butterballs (always my last choice)

Fresh? Frozen?

The supermarket advertises from 49 cents to $1.99 a pound.


Any observations? Advice?

quote:

Originally posted by wheregreggeats.com

We're brining our turkey for the first time this year ...

Last few years, we'd had a bird raised by a friend ... but not this year.

So, I'm paying a little more attention to the turkey we'll buy.

Hens? Toms?

Butterballs (always my last choice)

Fresh? Frozen?

The supermarket advertises from 49 cents to $1.99 a pound.


Any observations? Advice?

I always brine and I always buy fresh, not frozen. I do not think there is anything wrong with frozen birds but I do not like having to think about thawing them. I always let them rest for about 15-20 minutes after cooking to allow the juices to recirculate. I cover the breast with foils about a half a hour before completion to avoid overcooking.

Just my thoughts.

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

quote:

Originally posted by wheregreggeats.com

We're brining our turkey for the first time this year ...

Last few years, we'd had a bird raised by a friend ... but not this year.

So, I'm paying a little more attention to the turkey we'll buy.

Hens? Toms?

Butterballs (always my last choice)

Fresh? Frozen?

The supermarket advertises from 49 cents to $1.99 a pound.


Any observations? Advice?

Always a tom and always fresh. It'll cost more, but it's certainly worth it.

I buy a freshly killed frozen hen 14-16lbs which would feed about 8 people with leftovers from a local poultry farm on Long Island on Sunday and keep in the refrigerator till Thursday. I was raised on Butterballs, I always remember that they were delicious, nothing wrong with having them. Just try to figure out if you get a big frozen tom how many days in the fridge it would have to stay to defrost for THanksgiving, I think its about 4 hours per pound to defrost?

Mine will cost $1.39 per pound this year.

I buy heirloom birds (American Bronzes or Bourbon Reds) from Heritage Farms. Unlike Broad Breasted Whites, which account for over 99% of all turkeys sold and are freakish genetic hybrirds (can't fly, reproduce on their own or live outiside of a controlled environment), the heirloom birds have fabuluous flavor and texture. No need to go thru all of the gymnastics (brining, injecting, frying, etc) needed to make a regular bird taste like anything other than crumbly, squeaky, stick-in-the throat compressed sawdust. Just roast it & eat it. Lots of nice fat under the skin (since its older than a typical BB White) keeps everything unctuous and makes outstanding gravy.

Tbey're wildly expensive but worth it (to me anyway) once or twice a year. And eating 'em encourages small farmers to raise more of 'em, thereby preserving the breed and a smidge of genetic diversity. Raised without the usual blizzard of drugs & supplements, too.

BTW, if you look at the turkey in the Norman Rockwell "Freedom From Want" painting, notice how it has much longer legs a much less balloon-shaped body than a modern turkey. That's an old time bird like the heritage breeds.

Are heirloom birds available elsewhere ... say in the west ???

Anybody know?

quote:

Originally posted by wheregreggeats.com

Are heirloom birds available elsewhere ... say in the west ???

Anybody know?

Well, I don't know about buying a ready to cook bird, but if you want to raise your own, I'm pretty sure you can find either of those breeds from McMurray Hatchery and raise them yourself. McMurray Hatchery is on the web.

Don't laugh, but I have a thing for chickens, turkeys, ducks, etc. I think I am a frustrated poultry farmer wannabe. My whole kitchen is decorated with chickens, even my dishes. My poor husband. And all he wants to do is retire and travel. All I want to do is retire and raise chickens, gather eggs, cook, and look after a passel of grandchildren that I hope I will have someday.

But I digress....

The Heirloom birds post was quite interesting. Are the heirloom birds the same as wild turkey?
I suspect they are not but are more closely related to wild turkey than to agra-biz turkey.

For a quality modern type turkey I rely on Plainville Farms:
http://www.plainvillefarms.com/

Plainville is a privately held family business operating in Upstate NY since 1835. They still do things the old fashioned way and the result is a superior bird. It is my standard bird for Thanksgiving.

For those of you who are interested in heirloom turkeys and have the room and desire to raise your own (or just check them out), McMurray Hatchery DOES have them, including pictures and descriptions. Very interesting stuff.

Here's the link to the turkeys:
http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/category/turkeys.html

The heirloom turkeys I get come from Heritage Foods USA, an organization that promotes the saving of heirloom breeds by commercializing them. In other words, the best way to save a breed is to eat them, thereby creating a demand which will lead to greater supply, etc. They source birds, hogs (Tamworths, Gloucestershire Old Spots, Red Wattles & Berkshires) & a few other things. Sometimes they get a little new agey in their approach, but the vittles are outstanding. The turkeys are raised by a guy in Kansas.

All done by mail order over the web. Turkeys are fresh killed & shipped chilled. Any that don't get sold from this or the Xmas slaughter are frozen & sold at a discount over the ensuing months.

May be too late to get a bird for this year's thanksgiving, but check them out at www.heritagefoodsusa.com. I believe D'Artagnan also sells them (www.dartagnan.com), as well as a great selection of game & wild poultry (grouse anyone?).

I warn you, the prices will probably make your eyes bug out -- but for a once/twice a year holiday, I can justify it.

Happy thanksgiving, all.

NB: Oyster dressing is really good with this.

We will be picking up our free range turkey this weekend, and I'm considering brining it ...for the first time.

I imagine brining a frozen bird would be just fine, just don't brine one thats already brined...Last time I looked, a lot of the frozen birds are injected with "solutions"...which is the industrial method of brining.

By the way Plainville puts out a great bird, The Dinosaur BBQ serves their own brined and smoked Plainville sliced turkey breast sandwiches every Tuesday in Syracuse.

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost

The Heirloom birds post was quite interesting. Are the heirloom birds the same as wild turkey?
I suspect they are not but are more closely related to wild turkey than to agra-biz turkey.

For a quality modern type turkey I rely on Plainville Farms:
http://www.plainvillefarms.com/

Plainville is a privately held family business operating in Upstate NY since 1835. They still do things the old fashioned way and the result is a superior bird. It is my standard bird for Thanksgiving.

The heirloom birds are domestic breeds, not wild turkeys. They were relatively common 50 - 100 years ago when small local farms accounted for most of the food supply. The Broad Breasted White supermarket bird was developed during the postwar period as poultry production became institutionalized and American tastes (or lack thereof) demanded a bird with as much white meat as possible.

Similar thing happened with hogs, which is why commercial pork now has that same crumbly, squeaky stick-in-the-throat texture as commercial turkey. "The other white meat" indeed. So now it needs, brining, injecting etc. to taste like much. Now those nice fat Berkshires that root around outside -- that's a hog for ya.

quote:

Originally posted by brightcopperkettles

quote:

Originally posted by wheregreggeats.com

Are heirloom birds available elsewhere ... say in the west ???

Anybody know?

Well, I don't know about buying a ready to cook bird, but if you want to raise your own, I'm pretty sure you can find either of those breeds from McMurray Hatchery and raise them yourself. McMurray Hatchery is on the web.

Don't laugh, but I have a thing for chickens, turkeys, ducks, etc. I think I am a frustrated poultry farmer wannabe. My whole kitchen is decorated with chickens, even my dishes. My poor husband. And all he wants to do is retire and travel. All I want to do is retire and raise chickens, gather eggs, cook, and look after a passel of grandchildren that I hope I will have someday.

But I digress....

I'm sure you're going to love a retirement filled with hauling 100-pound sacks of feed around and cleaning up the droppings you haven't already stepped in while gathering eggs.

A Plainville fan as well. But, last year, I bought a frozen.
It came out fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by brightcopperkettles

quote:

Originally posted by wheregreggeats.com

Are heirloom birds available elsewhere ... say in the west ???

Anybody know?

Well, I don't know about buying a ready to cook bird, but if you want to raise your own, I'm pretty sure you can find either of those breeds from McMurray Hatchery and raise them yourself. McMurray Hatchery is on the web.

Don't laugh, but I have a thing for chickens, turkeys, ducks, etc. I think I am a frustrated poultry farmer wannabe. My whole kitchen is decorated with chickens, even my dishes. My poor husband. And all he wants to do is retire and travel. All I want to do is retire and raise chickens, gather eggs, cook, and look after a passel of grandchildren that I hope I will have someday.

But I digress....

I'm sure you're going to love a retirement filled with hauling 100-pound sacks of feed around and cleaning up the droppings you haven't already stepped in while gathering eggs.

No, actually I won't be able to do any of that. Like I said, hubby has another plan, hence, so do I. But I can still romanticize about the dear little things.... ;-)

I used to just use the thawed out frozen turkeys until a few years ago when I discovered Diestel fresh organic turkeys. I was at a local boutique grocery store and noticed a line of people asking for their ordered turkeys. I thought they may have been cooked, but they were just fresh turkeys that people were picking up on Wednesday. I asked some of the people about them and they said they were the best turkeys they ever had... wide breasted, less fat, less water and organic from a family farm. I was able to purchase one and gave it a try. It was the best turkey I have ever tasted and I have bought them every year since.

So I first have to agree with the posts in here that state that "fresh" is a big factor. They are not as inexpensive as the frozen factory turkeys, but worth it. It's the centerpeice of your meal, don't go cheap on it. I'd rather have cranberries and green beans out of a can now than a frozen turkey.

Those of you on the west cost this is the link to the organic turkey farm: http://www.diestelturkey.com/ Also Whole Foods and Wild Oats Markets carry this turkey.

To everyone here on Roadfood, Happy Thanksgiving.....

and to those of you who deep fry your turkeys, please do so wisely and safely...

Since it's just the four of us this year, and the kids don't eat much poultry (unless it's in "nugget" form!) we'll probably just roast a large chicken. BUT, when I buy a turkey, I always buy fresh...to me, there is a huge difference in tenderness, particularly with the dark meat, which is my favorite. I bought a free-range bird from a local farm one year, and I think this bird was a bit TOO fit. There were almost no drippings at all! I've had reasonably good luck with Butterball fresh, but I know there are better choices out there. I also think a lot of stores that advertise their birds as fresh have actually just thawed frozen birds.

Maybe next year, I'll try the place in upstate NY. Sounds yummy!

The heirloom turkey sounds delicious. I'd like to try it some year.

As usual, our bird will be whatever was on sale for $.29/lb at Wegmans. You had to spend $25 to get the sale price, which is not hard to do when food shopping. My wife got two, a few days apart and we'll have the second for New Years dinner. I just checked and it's a Country Pride, packaged by Pilgrims Pride. Not sure if this is the same on-sale brand as years before, but we have always had good birds.

Brining is the way to go with a turkey. No big trick; it just comes out more moist. There are a bunch of brining recipes, but I always take with lazy way by looking up Alton Brown's approach http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_ea/episode/0,1976,FOOD_9956_16922,00.html. He since has said that stuffing is ok, through in a very complicated way.

"Fresh" turkey is an interesting question. The USDA says that "fresh" turkey can be chilled to 26 farenheit. http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/pubs/focustky.htm

quote:

Originally posted by brightcopperkettles

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by brightcopperkettles

quote:

Originally posted by wheregreggeats.com

Are heirloom birds available elsewhere ... say in the west ???

Anybody know?

Well, I don't know about buying a ready to cook bird, but if you want to raise your own, I'm pretty sure you can find either of those breeds from McMurray Hatchery and raise them yourself. McMurray Hatchery is on the web.

Don't laugh, but I have a thing for chickens, turkeys, ducks, etc. I think I am a frustrated poultry farmer wannabe. My whole kitchen is decorated with chickens, even my dishes. My poor husband. And all he wants to do is retire and travel. All I want to do is retire and raise chickens, gather eggs, cook, and look after a passel of grandchildren that I hope I will have someday.

But I digress....

I'm sure you're going to love a retirement filled with hauling 100-pound sacks of feed around and cleaning up the droppings you haven't already stepped in while gathering eggs.

No, actually I won't be able to do any of that. Like I said, hubby has another plan, hence, so do I. But I can still romanticize about the dear little things.... ;-)

You can probably tell that when I was a little kid I had some chores I didn't care all that much for.

Did anyone mention Wild Turkey for Thanksgiving?

Gordon read thru the thread about Grampy's Cocktail guide and check the recipe for a Fascist Pr**k cocktail!

Since it is just the two of us, we usually get invited over to one of the kids homes for a dinner on Thursday, but we'll get a bird also to do for ourselves. We usually go for the sale-priced frozen Turkeys, but we will search out the brand that has the lowest percentage of injected stuff in it. It really suprises me that you can find anything from 3% to 15% or more in added "water solution" weight added. I tried smoking a bird a couple of years ago that had 12% added solution...It turned out terrible (MUSHY +). So now we look closely at the label. Smoking whole birds or just the breast turns out great and makes much better sandwiches for those "after the holiday" meals.

Brining a turkey is new to me and with the little research I have done on the subject, it seems pointless. Of course I have had brined turkeys before...that's what Butterballs and most frozen turkeys are. I do not see where saturating the meat with a saline solution does anything at all other than make the bird taste salty and dry. I might try such a thing as an experiment, but not on Thanksgiving.

I will do my turkey the old fashioned way...fresh turkey, roasted with butter saturated cheese cloth over the breast to retain moisture. Works for me. Every time.

Of course I am always willing to learn. Can anyone come up with a good reason why brining would make the turkey any better?

Our family is small soI usually look for a fresh 10 to 12 turkey. Toms are most readily available. In Louisiana,no matter where you get your turkey, home-raised or otherwise, brine and inject with a flavored marinade, usually Zattaran's or Cajun Injector. Try frying it in peanut oil! Juicy every time!

quote:

Originally posted by Al-The Mayor-Bowen


I tried smoking a bird a couple of years ago that had 12% added solution...It turned out terrible (MUSHY +). So now we look closely at the label.

I know what you mean...my merit ultra lights got just a few drop of water, and they were nearly impossible to smoke!



just kidding.
The BEST turkey I ever had was at a friends house near Atlanta and they had a smoked turkey for Thanksgiving, and it was incredible.

I almost had squirrel for the first time that weekend, but the squirrel he got when hunting, was too old. I think he made jerky out of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Al-The Mayor-Bowen


Gordon read thru the thread about Grampy's Cocktail guide and check the recipe for a Fascist Pr**k cocktail!

quote:

A Fascist Pr**k has:

6 oz of Wild Turkey Bourbon,
12 oz of Mountain Dew and
one large Smoked Turkey Gizzard
Served in a 24 oz Slurpee cup. with Ranch Dressing on the side

Seems everything has been Ranchified. Is the Ranch Dressing for the qizzard or for the deep-fried Moon Pie that would come with this cocktail?

My family is different,the majority of us like the dark meat.
Does anyone know where I might find a turkey raised for the dark meat?
We have done Thanksgiving with just roasted thighs, but it isn't the same.
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost

Brining a turkey is new to me and with the little research I have done on the subject, it seems pointless. Of course I have had brined turkeys before...that's what Butterballs and most frozen turkeys are. I do not see where saturating the meat with a saline solution does anything at all other than make the bird taste salty and dry. I might try such a thing as an experiment, but not on Thanksgiving.

I will do my turkey the old fashioned way...fresh turkey, roasted with butter saturated cheese cloth over the breast to retain moisture. Works for me. Every time.

Of course I am always willing to learn. Can anyone come up with a good reason why brining would make the turkey any better?

Brining can improve factory turkey & pork by making it juicier and saltier, which tends to amplify flavor. The actual chemistry is a little complicated, but in essence, the salt in the brine denatures some of the protein strands in the muscle (ie. meat) which makes them tangled and able to trap and hold water. Which, of course, translates into a juicier bird. Only applies to meat that is cooked well done (poultry & pork, mainly) where the high heat causes the proteins in the muscles to contract & squeeze out moisture.

Cooks Illustrated mag and their website has a more in depth discussion. But it really does work, though finding a container large enough to brine a big turkey that also fits in the fridge can be a hassle. Fortunately for me, the heritage birds I get (see earlier post) don't need the treatment.

RJB,

Thanks to your knowledgeable posts on brining, I am coming around to the point of giving it a try next time I do a turkey. I am thinking of trying it with a Plainville turkey breast to keep the size factor down.

I just got through listening to a celebrated local chef on Northeast Public Radio, who agrees with your approach right down the line. He uses only organic heirloom birds and offers only brined turkey at his upscale restaurant. He starts the bird cooking in a preheated 500 degree oven to crisp it a bit, then reduces the oven to 300 degrees cooking the bird till done.

So between your posts and listening to the local chef, I will give the method a try, although I think I will stick to my long slow cooking method.