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 Chains Bad!

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Michael Hoffman

  • Total Posts: 14550
  • Joined: 7/1/2000
  • Location: Gahanna, OH
Chains Bad! Sun, 10/2/05 2:27 PM (permalink)
Here's a story from The Associated Press that ought to make some folks happy.

By Clarke Canfield ASSOCIATED PRESS



OGUNQUIT, Maine — You won’t find McDonald’s golden arches or pink-and-orange Dunkin’ Donuts signs in this seaside town. It’ll stay that way if voters approve a proposed ordinance that would outlaw chain restaurants.
Ogunquit is the latest town nationwide to consider a law over so-called "formula’’ businesses. From Maine to California, more than a dozen municipalities have laws that ban or restrict chain restaurants, motels, retailers and other establishments.
Supporters of the chain-restaurant ban say they don’t want their seaside town to turn into just another congested strip of Applebee’s, Burger Kings and Subways.
"This is a pristine and special community that we are stewards of,’’ said Mary Breen, owner of a high-end bakery, who spearheaded a petition drive to get the question on the Nov. 8 ballot. "It’s not about finance and marketing; it’s about preserving this small fishing and arts community.’’
Opponents say Ogunquit’s existing ban on drive-throughs and its design-review process are enough to help the town maintain its character.
As chain stores have spread in recent years, so has the movement to control them on the local level, said Stacy Mitchell, a senior researcher with the nonprofit Institute for Local Self-Reliance.
In the mid-1980s, Carmel-bythe-Sea, Calif., became the first city to enact a formula restaurant ban. Since then, communities in California, Florida, Maine, New York, Rhode Island and Washington have passed similar laws, she said.
Local communities are given a lot of leeway over local zoning and land-use issues.
But the issue is about more than signs or drive-throughs — it’s about economics, Mitchell said. Studies show that more money stays within a community when it is spent at locally owned businesses, she said.
Ogunquit, a community of 1,200 year-round residents on the southern Maine coast, is a popular summer destination.
Breen, who started the Bread and Roses Bakery in 1989, became alarmed last spring when rumors spread that a Dunkin’ Donuts was coming to town.
She and others circulated a petition and collected 125 signatures to force a vote on whether to ban formula restaurants, defined as establishments with the same name, employee uniforms, color schemes, architectural design, signage, or similar standardized features as another restaurant regardless of location or ownership.
While chains might be appropriate elsewhere, Breen said they don’t belong in Ogunquit.
"Once you have a Dunkin’ Donuts, you’re going to have a TCBY, a Subway and a McDonald’s,’’ she said.
Dick Grotton, president and chief executive of the Maine Restaurant Association, said if people don’t want chain restaurants in town, they won’t support them.
"It doesn’t get done by the ballot box. People vote with their feet,’’ he said.
 
#1
    chezkatie

    • Total Posts: 1329
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    RE: Chains Bad! Sun, 10/2/05 3:18 PM (permalink)
    Now I know why I have vacationed in Ogunquit for 8 out of the last ten years..............smart people and great local restaurants.
     
    #2
      V960

      • Total Posts: 2429
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      RE: Chains Bad! Sun, 10/2/05 4:59 PM (permalink)
      Let me see...didn't we learn what embargos and protectionism got us in the past? If the locals are good the chains will die.

      Competition makes us great not pretectionism...no English allowed, only French? Only seafood? Only owners from this county? Wherer does it stop?

      What if the owner of the Mickie D's lived in the town...is that acceptable?

      What I "read" about Ms. Breen was that if Dunkin Donuts comes to town she'll have to work very hard, offer a bigger variety and have a really good coffee (not the cheap stuff from Sysco).

      i
       
      #3
        mr chips

        RE: Chains Bad! Sun, 10/2/05 7:39 PM (permalink)
        Now I know where some of the"lost" posters ended up.
         
        #4
          tmiles

          • Total Posts: 1673
          • Joined: 10/1/2004
          • Location: Millbury, MA
          RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 8:54 AM (permalink)
          I was recently in Ogunquit. Dunkin is already open and very busy. It is not right in town, but outside it on the main road. It may even be over the town line. I'm a former planning board member, and I can tell you from experience that well meaning people make bad, but well meaning zoning decisions all the time. IMO, as much as I like Ogunquit as it is, Ogunquit's proposed ban is Un American
           
          #5
            chezkatie

            • Total Posts: 1329
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            RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 10:07 AM (permalink)
            quote:
            Originally posted by tmiles

            I IMO, as much as I like Ogunquit as it is, Ogunquit's proposed ban is Un American


            I do not understand this being un-American. I am assuming that every registered voter will be able to cast a ballot. Sounds sort of like a democracy to me. (Democracy is a form of government in which policy is decided by the preference of the majority in a decision-making process, usually elections or referenda, open to all or most citizens.) Yup................sounds like the United States of America to me.
             
            #6
              Tedbear

              • Total Posts: 1832
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              • Location: Somerset, NJ
              RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 11:00 AM (permalink)
              quote:
              Originally posted by chezkatie

              quote:
              Originally posted by tmiles

              I IMO, as much as I like Ogunquit as it is, Ogunquit's proposed ban is Un American


              I do not understand this being un-American. I am assuming that every registered voter will be able to cast a ballot. Sounds sort of like a democracy to me. (Democracy is a form of government in which policy is decided by the preference of the majority in a decision-making process, usually elections or referenda, open to all or most citizens.) Yup................sounds like the United States of America to me.



              Yup! I would say that Chezkatie has defined exactly why this proposed referendum is the essence of democracy. Just as laws regarding things such as guns, gambling, motor vehicles, liquor, prostitution, etc. vary from one state to another, municipalities have the ability to regulate certain things as they see fit. The reason for the difference in laws from one state to another is a reflection of the differences in the "culture" or the mind-set of the people in that state. Similarly, differences in the cultures in municipalities can lead to various regulations that may be a bit different.

              While Ogunquit could not impose their own restrictions on many other things, they do have the right to regulate things such as this issue. In Freeport, Maine, for instance, the local McDonald's has only a sign that is approximately 4 ft. x 1 ft. on the lawn to advertise their presence. They are not allowed to have the usual giant version of the Golden Arches, because Freeport does not allow signs of that type. Whether this was voted upon by the locals, I don't know, but I can tell you that it was extremely civilized to see such a tiny sign on the front lawn of that McDonald's.

              In the case of Ogunquit, the fact that this will be a referendum means that Ogunquit is truly democratic (in the lower-case "d" sense). In other words, if the city fathers (or mothers!) unilaterally imposed this restriction, then it could be viewed as undemocratic. The fact that this will be left up to the voters is the true essence of democracy.

              Viva Ogunquit!
               
              #7
                Dipstick

                • Total Posts: 332
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                • Location: Crystal, MN
                RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 11:07 AM (permalink)
                I whole-heartedly agree with Chezkatie. This is the power of the polls in action. It is no different than voting on purposed zoning laws, or the use of gated communities for crime reduction.
                As far as fast food establishments however, as one who does indulge, the un-American thing to do is to stifle those who wish to share their opinions and experiences.
                 
                #8
                  saps

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                  RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 11:48 AM (permalink)
                  Going back to Adam Smith, our economy was built on the ability of market forces to determine success or failure.

                  If you have a viable product that people want, people will vote with their dollars. If there is no demand, it will ultimately fail.

                  Protectionism is a discriminatory policy that also encourages the production of lowest common denominator of product (why use costlier ingredients when the competition is eliminated).

                  Protectionism impedes business as well. Suppose I wanted to open a small hamburger stand in Ogunquit, but the laws there said that no outsiders could do so. Suppose my place had better food and used better ingredients than the other places. In that case, two groups lose out; me, the seller, since I can't ply my trade, and the consumer, who loses out on the opportunity to purchase a higher grade of food.

                  Protectionism opens the door for abuse as well. Suppose there is only one hamburger stand in town X. Suppose the demand is there for 2 stands and I see an opportunity. However, the local person is well-liked and even though he makes average food, creates a groundswell to form an ordinance against outsiders coming in and opening restaurants. The ordinance is created, I can't build a stand, and he drops his food quality further (and raises his prices) since there is no incentive since there is no competition. Once again, the consumer suffers.

                  The U.S. car business ran along this way. While U.S. car manufacturers turned out crap over the years, Japanese manufacturers looked for ways to penetrate markets by making autos less expensive with higher performance. While the U.S. auto industry suffered, it did eventually figure out that it had to create an improved product at a lower cost with better performance.

                   
                  #9
                    wheregreggeats.com

                    RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 12:00 PM (permalink)
                    In central Oregon, a McDonald's was being built in a small un-chained-up town and one of the locals torched it before it opened.

                    Not pretty.

                     
                    #10
                      Dipstick

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                      RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 1:07 PM (permalink)
                      I must admit Saps, you have given me food for thought.
                      (no pun intended)
                       
                      #11
                        Tony Bad

                        RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 1:26 PM (permalink)
                        quote:


                        Yup! I would say that Chezkatie has defined exactly why this proposed referendum is the essence of democracy. Just as laws regarding things such as guns, gambling, motor vehicles, liquor, prostitution, etc. vary from one state to another, municipalities have the ability to regulate certain things as they see fit. The reason for the difference in laws from one state to another is a reflection of the differences in the "culture" or the mind-set of the people in that state. Similarly, differences in the cultures in municipalities can lead to various regulations that may be a bit different.

                        Viva Ogunquit!


                        I don't agree...A plan to limit who can own or operate a business in their town smells like exclusionary or protectionist behavior...not democracy. As far as I know laws regarding those things you mention (guns, gambling, motor vehicles, liquor, prostitution, etc.) do not vary according to who owns the car, gun etc. If Ogunquit banned cars for anyone except those who fit a certain profile no would laud that as "the essence of democracy", so I am at a loss to understand why this type of protectionism is so democratic.

                        The "differences in the "culture" or the mind-set of the people in that state" has been used to protect or justify some abhorrent behaviors in the past...I am not buying that the simple fact a local group votes in favor of something it is the "essence of democracy".

                        I have been vacationing in Maine for many years and love the Ogunquit area, but I am not a fan of giving people an unfair advantage in business. Let them provide a good product that people want and their business will thrive, regardless of the competition.
                         
                        #12
                          V960

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                          RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 5:14 PM (permalink)
                          Hate to break this earth shattering news to public school grads but this country is NOT a democracy, it's a republic. We therefore restrict the laws passed by our representatives to pass certain reasonable standards. Restricting an owner from using his/her property in a reasonable manner is absurd. OK, you can make Wendy's have signs that are x by y but you can't tell them Joe has been here for twenty years selling square burgers so you can't build and sell your square burgers.

                          Where will it stop...Fred has two places in Myrtle Beach so he can't build another burger shack here because he didn't pay his poll tax? My brother is the mayor and my ice cream shop needs protection from a better managed company w/ a wider selection at lower prices in a cleaner, newer and much more attractive location, but I'm a native and the other guy bought his franchise from maga ice cream giant. Who cares...don't like the way mega whatever looks passing zoning rules but don't restrict commerce.

                          Next thing you know it will be "I'm the hot dog guy in town and we don't put mustard on our dogs"
                           
                          #13
                            chezkatie

                            • Total Posts: 1329
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                            RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 5:18 PM (permalink)
                            quote:
                            Originally posted by V960

                            Hate to break this earth shattering news to public school grads but this country is NOT a democracy, it's a republic.


                            Get off the crap................because someone does not agree with you, they are only a high school graduate.................lol lol

                            You have a lot to learn, sonny boy.
                             
                            #14
                              Tedbear

                              • Total Posts: 1832
                              • Joined: 1/26/2004
                              • Location: Somerset, NJ
                              RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 5:55 PM (permalink)
                              Quote: "As far as I know laws regarding those things you mention (guns, gambling, motor vehicles, liquor, prostitution, etc.) do not vary according to who owns the car, gun etc."


                              Well, actually, them sometimes do vary. A convicted felon cannot own a gun (well, at least they can't in most states), motor vehicle codes in many states specify that drivers under a certain age cannot have more than one underage passenger with them, and/or cannot drive after a certain time at night.

                              The age at which one can purchase liquor varies with the state, but certainly the ability to purchase liquor is not universal for everyone in a state--so that varies within a state also, depending on "who you are". Even though the US Constitution guarantees Freedom of Assembly, some municipalities have general curfews for teenagers, so the right to be on the street (to "assemble") is something that varies, depending on "who you are".

                              Are these things the same as banning a certain type of business? No, obviously not. But, they are examples of how a certain right is not necessarily universal, and can be restricted, depending on who someone is.

                              Just because we don't like the outcome of a certain referendum or the results of a piece of legislation does not necessarily mean that democracy has been subverted. There is an old saying, to the effect that "people get the kind of government that they deserve". Whether I like the outcome or not, if the people of a certain municipality or county or state have participated in the democratic process, I have to abide by the outcome when I am in that area.

                              In the case of the prospective fast-food businessman, he can locate his business elsewhere. While the right to live somewhere may be a constitutionally protected right, it appears that the same does not apply to businesses--as determined by many court decisions on the legality of local ordinances. Otherwise, the owner of the "Adult Toy Store" could display his wares in areas where they may be objectionable to families. Courts have ruled that municipalities have the right to restrict businesses that they deem to be offensive. In this case, if the residents of Ogunquit decide that fast food is offensive to them, then they should be able to restrict this type of business. You may not like it, but you do have to abide by it. And, if new court decisions override the local ordinance (or referendum), then the locals will have to live with that decision.
                               
                              #15
                                V960

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                                RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 6:36 PM (permalink)


                                Sonny boy? Really? I like that!!!! Talk to me Darling...

                                Touch of gray in my curls but the blue eyes are still right up there w/ P. Newman's. Not quite but real close. Man has the bluest eyes on this planet.

                                As George C. Scott's character in the Flim Flam Man said "Boy, I'll dance on your grave". Doing my road work...five miles w/ a good kick up Wright Rd this afternoon. Got to get back in shape so I can spoil my grandkids which are at least ten years away.

                                By the way, this is not in anyway meant as a threat but merely an understanding of the long lived nature of the Irish. Also their dashing good looks and having unknown womem call us "Sonny Boy", golly gee I'm flattered.

                                As Mark Twain (S. Clemens) once was quoted as saying "All men (sorry but it was a man's world in those days) are ignorant of some things". I confess to being ignorant of many things.

                                Public school refers to funding of the institution not grade level attainment. The University of North Carolina is also a public school...GO HEELS! Public school grads generally don't know this country is not a democracy but a republic...really it isn't and there is a BIG difference.

                                Sadly this small town, if history is any indication, will wither on the vine as it were because the intend to do a economic version of an ostrich.

                                In rereading the article reprint the populace hasn't even cast the vote yet...why are we argueing? Some frightened shop owner is worried she will be out classed by a chain (almost a given) and rightfully put out of business.

                                Food service is a business not a right. Run a small place be ready to go up against the big boys. They were once the small boys, did it right and are coming to take your business unless you do it better. Hide behind a local ordinance and your whole district goes down the economic tubes with you.

                                Do it better or "die". Welcome to American business, like it or not.

                                I always have to laugh when people complaim about the "big chains", they ALL started out as ONE store...figure it out and shut up, they did.
                                 
                                #16
                                  Tedbear

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                                  RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 6:44 PM (permalink)

                                  Quote from V960: "Sadly this small town, if history is any indication, will wither on the vine as it were because the intend to do a economic version of an ostrich."
                                  Actually, since the demographic of Ogunquit's vacation population is largely gay, there is little chance of that. Over the years, the town has learned that its economic fortunes depend very heavily on that demographic, as well as on straight people who are not alarmed by "alternate life-styles". As a result, the local business people have learned to fashion the environment in a way that will appeal to their target demographic.

                                  I predict a prosperous future for Ogunquit, no matter what the outcome of the referendum may turn out to be.
                                   
                                  #17
                                    garryd451

                                    • Total Posts: 694
                                    • Joined: 12/28/2004
                                    • Location: dowagiac, MI
                                    RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 7:10 PM (permalink)

                                    You won't find McDonald's or Dunkin Donuts in the twin villages of Saugatuck-Douglas Michigan either!! Approx 8 years ago, McDonld's tried, it failed, big time! Below is a site about these two Villages located on both Lake Michigan and the Kalamazoo river.


                                    http://www.saugatuck.com/tour/map.htm
                                     
                                    #18
                                      V960

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                                      RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 7:10 PM (permalink)
                                      Given that demographic aspect I agree w/ you. Actually sounds like my kind of yankee resort...no, I'm not gay just practice a sort of reverse discrimination.

                                      Actually I'm 2 1/2 hours from beaches where the beach is four times wider than anything in NE, the shrimp and crabs are much better, granted the lobster sucks, but the water is twenty degrees warmer. Yea, I'm going to drive I-95 for twelve hours to spend time w/ my yankee relatives...NOT.

                                      Nothing could be finer than to be in Carolina in the morning.......

                                       
                                      #19
                                        Tony Bad

                                        RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 7:19 PM (permalink)
                                        quote:
                                        Originally posted by Tedbear
                                        Are these things the same as banning a certain type of business? No, obviously not. But, they are examples of how a certain right is not necessarily universal, and can be restricted, depending on who someone is.

                                        Just because we don't like the outcome of a certain referendum or the results of a piece of legislation does not necessarily mean that democracy has been subverted. There is an old saying, to the effect that "people get the kind of government that they deserve". Whether I like the outcome or not, if the people of a certain municipality or county or state have participated in the democratic process, I have to abide by the outcome when I am in that area.

                                        In the case of the prospective fast-food businessman, he can locate his business elsewhere. While the right to live somewhere may be a constitutionally protected right, it appears that the same does not apply to businesses--as determined by many court decisions on the legality of local ordinances. Otherwise, the owner of the "Adult Toy Store" could display his wares in areas where they may be objectionable to families. Courts have ruled that municipalities have the right to restrict businesses that they deem to be offensive. In this case, if the residents of Ogunquit decide that fast food is offensive to them, then they should be able to restrict this type of business. You may not like it, but you do have to abide by it. And, if new court decisions override the local ordinance (or referendum), then the locals will have to live with that decision.


                                        The article quotes the owner of a bakery, so baked goods are not being deemed offensive...only certain purveyors of those baked goods. If Ogunquit sought to ban donuts, your argument would make sense...they would have banned an offensive product or business, but that is not what they are doing. They are making a judgement of the type of business and owner they will accept in their community. Isn't there a word for that??

                                        What if the vote was to ban businesses that sell art the locals deem offensive...not all art, or books that don't agree with their religious point of view...but not all books...or sought to ban businesses that catered to certain ethnic groups or those with certain sexual preferences but allowed business catering to people they approve of to exist without restriction. Tell me how this is any different...because I don't see it.

                                        If the residents of this town truly find the chains offensive, let them vote with their pocketbook...not by some process masquerading as what you call "the essence of democracy".
                                         
                                        #20
                                          Tony Bad

                                          RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 7:22 PM (permalink)
                                          quote:
                                          Originally posted by Tedbear


                                          Quote from V960: "Sadly this small town, if history is any indication, will wither on the vine as it were because the intend to do a economic version of an ostrich."

                                          Actually, since the demographic of Ogunquit's vacation population is largely gay, there is little chance of that. Over the years, the town has learned that its economic fortunes depend very heavily on that demographic, as well as on straight people who are not alarmed by "alternate life-styles". As a result, the local business people have learned to fashion the environment in a way that will appeal to their target demographic.

                                          I predict a prosperous future for Ogunquit, no matter what the outcome of the referendum may turn out to be.



                                          So would it have been the "essence of democracy" if the old residents of Ogunquit enacted a referendum to ban gay owned businesses? I am sure you find that thought repulsive...so I am at a loss to understand why other exclusionary behavior is something to cheer.

                                          I don't mean to give you a hard time...I just find such exclusionary behavior offensive. It is like the people who settle along the beaches and once there try to establish laws that prevent others from moving there. There is a lot of that these days and it bugs me...sorry if my replies sounded nasty...not my intention.

                                          I can see why the people in many small Maine (or any where for that matter) towns would like to keep their small village atmosphere, but enacting laws that favor one group over another doesn't seem like an equitable way to do so.
                                           
                                          #21
                                            zataar

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                                            RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 7:26 PM (permalink)
                                            quote:
                                            Originally posted by V960

                                            Given that demographic aspect I agree w/ you. Actually sounds like my kind of yankee resort...no, I'm not gay just practice a sort of reverse discrimination.


                                            There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination". Discrimination is just that. Discrimination. Bias against any sexual, ethnic or religious group. It has no direction, it can't go forward or backward (reverse). It is simply negative. Stagnant, if you will.
                                             
                                            #22
                                              jeepguy

                                              • Total Posts: 1555
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                                              RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 7:42 PM (permalink)
                                              Pawleys Island SC has absolutely no commercial places but over on highway 17 is a grocery store, "Food Lion", a Mac's, Hardee's and a KFC. And gas stations which are also franchised. I don't know one single person there that doesn't run over to KFC to get chicken from time to time. We're human, we eat we sleep. Sheesh...btw there's also a Waffle House there- is THAT ok??? We're not all retired.
                                               
                                              #23
                                                V960

                                                • Total Posts: 2429
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                                                • Location: Kannapolis area, NC
                                                RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 8:01 PM (permalink)
                                                quote:
                                                Originally posted by zataar

                                                quote:
                                                Originally posted by V960

                                                Given that demographic aspect I agree w/ you. Actually sounds like my kind of yankee resort...no, I'm not gay just practice a sort of reverse discrimination.


                                                There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination". Discrimination is just that. Discrimination. Bias against any sexual, ethnic or religious group. It has no direction, it can't go forward or backward (reverse). It is simply negative. Stagnant, if you will.


                                                Reverse discrimination is to patronize the places other folks shy away from due to their prejudice. To fight the discrimination w/ a positive action, ie spending money. IE you hate gays I go out of my way to buy from them, hate small businesses...that's where I shop...

                                                Reverse is support...oh, whatever.
                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  V960

                                                  • Total Posts: 2429
                                                  • Joined: 6/17/2005
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                                                  RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 8:06 PM (permalink)
                                                  Shame on you for mentioning Pawley's Island...lynching is a regular practice on weekends...yankees especially. Sewage washes up on the beach everyday. There's no parking, grits are the only food served and the water can't be drunk. No good restaurants, people are crabby and the weather sucks.

                                                  BAD BAD place. STAY AWAY if you value your health and happiness.

                                                  AND nothing but chains for food, McDonalds is the best place in town.










                                                  p
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    jeepguy

                                                    • Total Posts: 1555
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                                                    RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 8:06 PM (permalink)
                                                    quote:
                                                    Originally posted by V960

                                                    quote:
                                                    Originally posted by zataar

                                                    quote:
                                                    Originally posted by V960

                                                    Given that demographic aspect I agree w/ you. Actually sounds like my kind of yankee resort...no, I'm not gay just practice a sort of reverse discrimination.


                                                    There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination". Discrimination is just that. Discrimination. Bias against any sexual, ethnic or religious group. It has no direction, it can't go forward or backward (reverse). It is simply negative. Stagnant, if you will.


                                                    Reverse discrimination is to patronize the places other folks shy away from due to their prejudice. To fight the discrimination w/ a positive action, ie spending money. IE you hate gays I go out of my way to buy from them, hate small businesses...that's where I shop...

                                                    Reverse is support...oh, whatever.
                                                    We're all gay in some way, for sure.
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      V960

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                                                      RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 9:20 PM (permalink)
                                                      I'm one of the gayest (not sure what that means) puppies on the earth...I just love w/ sleeping women. And for the past twenty four years it's one woman named Kimberly. Love ya Darling!!

                                                      Enjoy life. people and food...who cares about the rest.

                                                      Except the troops...buy them lunch tomorrow...or an illicit adult beverage or buy a police officer a coke or just say thank you to our service people.
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        Bushie

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                                                        RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 10:09 PM (permalink)
                                                        quote:
                                                        Originally posted by tmiles

                                                        Ogunquit's proposed ban is Un American

                                                        It's not un-American. In fact, it is very "Constitutional". The Constitution was intended to be a guarantee that we could all come together to defend our freedom as a nation, but that we also had the freedom to make our own choices locally.

                                                        Our country is not that way anymore (because of short-sighted liberalism), but that was the original intent.

                                                        If a community wants to vote to ban a business coming in to their area, then that is their right. They certainly may regret that decision, but any community should be able to make their own choices, then live with the results of those decisions.

                                                        Liberals want a centralized government to run everyone's lives (except, of course, their OWN). People like me want to be free, and we also want everyone else to be free. Freedom, however, comes with the responsibility to suffer the consequences, good or bad, of your choices.

                                                        Anyway, I'd love to live in a town that only had local businesses. I'd love to be able to walk to work, the store, and church. For many people, though, that don't work.

                                                        Shanah Tovah

                                                         
                                                        #28
                                                          Tony Bad

                                                          RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 10:41 PM (permalink)
                                                          quote:
                                                          Originally posted by Bushie

                                                          quote:
                                                          Originally posted by tmiles

                                                          Ogunquit's proposed ban is Un American

                                                          It's not un-American. In fact, it is very "Constitutional". The Constitution was intended to be a guarantee that we could all come together to defend our freedom as a nation, but that we also had the freedom to make our own choices locally.

                                                          Our country is not that way anymore (because of short-sighted liberalism), but that was the original intent.

                                                          If a community wants to vote to ban a business coming in to their area, then that is their right. They certainly may regret that decision, but any community should be able to make their own choices, then live with the results of those decisions.

                                                          Liberals want a centralized government to run everyone's lives (except, of course, their OWN). People like me want to be free, and we also want everyone else to be free. Freedom, however, comes with the responsibility to suffer the consequences, good or bad, of your choices.

                                                          Anyway, I'd love to live in a town that only had local businesses. I'd love to be able to walk to work, the store, and church. For many people, though, that don't work.

                                                          Shanah Tovah




                                                          I am confused by statements that to me seem to be at odds...

                                                          "People like me want to be free, and we also want everyone else to be free"

                                                          and

                                                          "If a community wants to vote to ban a business coming in to their area, then that is their right."

                                                          Where is the freedom for those who want to run a different kind of business? Does freedom only apply to those already on the inside?

                                                          Legislating people out of their freedom to do what others have done before them is no freedom at all...and based on your comments, would seemingly be something you don't like. I don't have much regard for people or communities that use laws to ban or keep out things or people they don't like.



                                                           
                                                          #29
                                                            garryd451

                                                            • Total Posts: 694
                                                            • Joined: 12/28/2004
                                                            • Location: dowagiac, MI
                                                            RE: Chains Bad! Mon, 10/3/05 10:48 PM (permalink)
                                                            quote:
                                                            Originally posted by V960

                                                            Hate to break this earth shattering news to public school grads but this country is NOT a democracy, it's a republic. We therefore restrict the laws passed by our representatives to pass certain reasonable standards. Restricting an owner from using his/her property in a reasonable manner is absurd. OK, you can make Wendy's have signs that are x by y but you can't tell them Joe has been here for twenty years selling square burgers so you can't build and sell your square burgers.

                                                            Where will it stop...Fred has two places in Myrtle Beach so he can't build another burger shack here because he didn't pay his poll tax? My brother is the mayor and my ice cream shop needs protection from a better managed company w/ a wider selection at lower prices in a cleaner, newer and much more attractive location, but I'm a native and the other guy bought his franchise from maga ice cream giant. Who cares...don't like the way mega whatever looks passing zoning rules but don't restrict commerce.

                                                            Next thing you know it will be "I'm the hot dog guy in town and we don't put mustard on our dogs"
                                                             
                                                            #30
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