Chevy Volt, would you buy one?

I could really go for a diesel Golf - VWs have that great tank-like solidity, and one with such great MPG is well nigh irresistible. I just wish I knew why diesel is consistently more expensive than gasoline - and its price fluctuations seem unrelated to that of gas. A VW rep at the auto show told me it was due to processing facilities getting hit by Katrina and with things getting back online the price would soon level out - but they were selling diesel cars there, so...?

Vince Macek


I could really go for a diesel Golf - VWs have that great tank-like solidity, and one with such great MPG is well nigh irresistible. I just wish I knew why diesel is consistently more expensive than gasoline - and its price fluctuations seem unrelated to that of gas. A VW rep at the auto show told me it was due to processing facilities getting hit by Katrina and with things getting back online the price would soon level out - but they were selling diesel cars there, so...?

Diesel costs more now for a couple of reasons.
 
The gubmint mandated ultra-low sulphur diesel a couple of years ago. More expensive to refine now.
 
The gubmint taxes diesel at a higher rate than gas. Apparently nobody cares because very few of us drive diesel passenger cars. (but all of us depend on over the road diesel trucks for our food, etc.) It all comes out of our pockets sooner or later. Go figger.
 
 

Vince Macek


I could really go for a diesel Golf - VWs have that great tank-like solidity, and one with such great MPG is well nigh irresistible. I just wish I knew why diesel is consistently more expensive than gasoline - and its price fluctuations seem unrelated to that of gas. A VW rep at the auto show told me it was due to processing facilities getting hit by Katrina and with things getting back online the price would soon level out - but they were selling diesel cars there, so...?

I have been driving VW diesels since the 70's so you know I like them. The latest gets about 35mpg in combined driving and 42-45 on highway, depending on a/c usage and speed. It isn't the slug that the old 50HP ones were, but there is a lot more technology in these newer ones, so I doubt they'll be as durable and cheap to run over the long haul.

Russ Jackson

tmiles


I would if gas went to $10 a gallon.

If that happens the Horse will comeback...Russ

Thats already happend here in rural Oklahoma---when gas goes close to $3 high schoolers leave Dad's big ol truck at home and ride to school---the Round Up Club is closed to the school and they leave thier horses there while at school. my wife fell in love with Cheotah ok when we went to Sonic and saw two guys on horse back putting in their orders! Been a while since anyone rode thier horse into a bar though---maybe 10 or 12!

In response to the original question. No, I would not buy a Volt. Two reasons...Current technology seems to be limiting the range/recharging situation...and In the great debate over Ford vs Chevy, I am firmly in the Ford camp.

I won't be buying any GM products. The government is currently trying to destroy Toyota. Who's next... Nissan, Honda?

BR


I won't be buying any GM products. The government is currently trying to destroy Toyota. Who's next... Nissan, Honda?

I drive a Toyota and i THINK toyota had a hand in their problems and didnt need any YS govt help!---by the way my all time favorite car was my 57 CHEVY!!!!---i'd buy a new oine of them today--got 24mpg on the freeway and weighed a ton!--or two!

Tony Bad

TrentonDog

I owned a VW Rabbit Diesel back in the late eighties - 50 mpg, but 0-60 in about 20 seconds. It went over 250K miles before the rings wore out and it regularly suffered from "diesel runaway" and had to be put to rest. I don't particularly dislike the Prius, but I loathe what it has become to symbolize. 

A $3 baffle that kept the breather on top of valve cover from sucking in oil was all that was needed to fix this. Later diesels had this, but the early ones needed it as an add on. 

As for what a Prius symbolizes, that is all in YOUR head. I am sure some people buy them for good reasons that don't deserve your loathing. 

The baffle might have kept it on the road a little longer, but the engine was just worn out. It was becoming hard to start, consuming oil, and really clattering when it wasn't warmed up. It had gone a quarter million miles without the baffle with no runaway issues, so I definitely got my money's worth out of it. That was an awesome car. I still have the cam locking tool and the dial indicator used to time the injection pump. I replaced the cam belt every 50,000 miles. I was a little paranoid about it snapping and ruining the engine.
 
As far as what the Prius has come to symbolize, you're right, some folks buy them because it makes sense for them. Many people that buy them are eco-weenies, and they think they are better than you. (this could be a regional thing) The Honda Accord Hybrid was canned because of a lack of sales even though it is a much more practical car. Camry hybrid sales pale in comparison to the Prius too.
 
 
 
 

Tony Bad

Vince Macek


I could really go for a diesel Golf - VWs have that great tank-like solidity, and one with such great MPG is well nigh irresistible. I just wish I knew why diesel is consistently more expensive than gasoline - and its price fluctuations seem unrelated to that of gas. A VW rep at the auto show told me it was due to processing facilities getting hit by Katrina and with things getting back online the price would soon level out - but they were selling diesel cars there, so...?

I have been driving VW diesels since the 70's so you know I like them. The latest gets about 35mpg in combined driving and 42-45 on highway, depending on a/c usage and speed. It isn't the slug that the old 50HP ones were, but there is a lot more technology in these newer ones, so I doubt they'll be as durable and cheap to run over the long haul.

Mine was a the 1.6L 48HP version. It looked very similar to the gas engines on the outside, but must have been beefed up internally to take the extra compression. The new TDI's are sweet. Very quiet and powerful. Mine old bunny had no a/c, a 4 speed manual, AM radio, and crank windows. Somehow, I still miss it. It made people jump in the parking lot whan I started it up. So much "big truck" noise from a little car.
 
I heard that Subaru, Honda and Toyota were planning on bringing diesels here to America, but that was a couple of years ago. I think the time is right again. The new generation of diesels is nothing like the ones from the 70's and 80's.
 
 
 

I really don't have a problem with anybody's reason for buying a Prius, Volt, etc.  Just do me one favor.....Stay out of the passing lane.  Your car was not made to sustain a high speed, even on the slightest incline.  And if you have you foot to the floor trying to keep up with big dogs, you are losing your gas mileage advantage, so stay on the porch with the puppies.  There, I feel better.

joerogo


I really don't have a problem with anybody's reason for buying a Prius, Volt, etc.  Just do me one favor.....Stay out of the passing lane.  Your car was not made to sustain a high speed, even on the slightest incline.  And if you have you foot to the floor trying to keep up with big dogs, you are losing your gas mileage advantage, so stay on the porch with the puppies.  There, I feel better.

Hahaha! I totally get it. I used to flog my Rabbit Diesel so I wasn't in anybody's way. Come to think of it, my old Datsun B210 (1977) and Toyota Corolla (1979) were about as gutless.
 
I've driven a Prius, and to tell you the truth, the acceleration and high speed cruising aren't as bad as you think. It'll put an 70's econobox to shame. But like you said, if you're driving it at 75 mph, you're pretty much killing any advantage to driving a hybrid. Heck, just driving them on the highway kills any advantage. A hybrid really shines in city driving, where it can take advantage of the electric assist and regenerative braking. If you do freeway, just buy a VW diesel (if you want mileage, comfort and power) or a Hyundai Accent (if you want to sacrifice the comfort and power).
 
I'm all for conserving natural resources. We own a fuel sipping economy car (4 banger Hyundai) and a gas guzzling SUV (Jeep Grand Cherokee). The Jeep really only gets used when we need the space or the AWD. The econobox is used when we just want to move people, not stuff. Really enjoy the comfort and utility of the Jeep. The 4.0 six, which was designed when dinosaurs roamed the earth, will still be running when humans are long gone I think. The Hyundai (Tiburon 2.0) is not particularly comfortable, but it is fun to drive (5 speed), pretty quick, handles well, and gets about 35 mpg vs. the Jeep's 18 mpg.
 
But the most fun of the bunch is my Kawasaki Ninja 500. 0-60 in less than 4 seconds and 60 mpg. Great commuter vehicle. When gas hits 5 bucks a gallon, look for more motorcycles.
 
Plug in electrics are probably never going to be mainstream. Sorry to see GM put so much time, effort and money into the Volt. It reminds me of another car they made that began with a "V". The Vega. While the all aluminum engine block with aluminum cylinder bores was revolutionary, it wasn't perfected technology, and it damaged their reputation. (well, I could think of a lot of GM blunders, but they have been a great source of innovation too)
 
 
 

TrentonDog


Mine was a the 1.6L 48HP version. It looked very similar to the gas engines on the outside, but must have been beefed up internally to take the extra compression. The new TDI's are sweet. Very quiet and powerful. Mine old bunny had no a/c, a 4 speed manual, AM radio, and crank windows. Somehow, I still miss it. It made people jump in the parking lot whan I started it up. So much "big truck" noise from a little car.
 
I heard that Subaru, Honda and Toyota were planning on bringing diesels here to America, but that was a couple of years ago. I think the time is right again. The new generation of diesels is nothing like the ones from the 70's and 80's.
        

 


Hey, if you want a project, I still have a 79 ---German made with round headlights ---48hp diesel out behind my shed. It was retired there after about 300,000 miles. The axle beam bolts on the left side rusted though, but I am sure you could get her going with some duct tape and string. My wife would be happy to have it vanish. I know what you mean about missing that car. It was so simple and basic. Another funny thing about the progression of diesels is that 79 always got around 50mpg, my 91 jetta, which was a big 52HP, got around 43-45mpg, and new TDI gets around 40-42mpg on highway use. Seems to be heading the wrong way. Is that progress?

Tony Bad

TrentonDog


Mine was a the 1.6L 48HP version. It looked very similar to the gas engines on the outside, but must have been beefed up internally to take the extra compression. The new TDI's are sweet. Very quiet and powerful. Mine old bunny had no a/c, a 4 speed manual, AM radio, and crank windows. Somehow, I still miss it. It made people jump in the parking lot whan I started it up. So much "big truck" noise from a little car.

I heard that Subaru, Honda and Toyota were planning on bringing diesels here to America, but that was a couple of years ago. I think the time is right again. The new generation of diesels is nothing like the ones from the 70's and 80's.
       

 


Hey, if you want a project, I still have a 79 ---German made with round headlights ---48hp diesel out behind my shed. It was retired there after about 300,000 miles. The axle beam bolts on the left side rusted though, but I am sure you could get her going with some duct tape and string. My wife would be happy to have it vanish. I know what you mean about missing that car. It was so simple and basic. Another funny thing about the progression of diesels is that 79 always got around 50mpg, my 91 jetta, which was a big 52HP, got around 43-45mpg, and new TDI gets around 40-42mpg on highway use. Seems to be heading the wrong way. Is that progress?

 


Yeah Butt, look at all the toys, bells and whistles you got, and a heck of a lot mores horsies.

joerogo


I really don't have a problem with anybody's reason for buying a Prius, Volt, etc.  Just do me one favor.....Stay out of the passing lane.  Your car was not made to sustain a high speed, even on the slightest incline.  And if you have you foot to the floor trying to keep up with big dogs, you are losing your gas mileage advantage, so stay on the porch with the puppies.  There, I feel better.

Nobody ever likes my suggestion.  We could put off the eventual necessity of converting entirely to non-gasoline combustion engines at least a handful of years by just going back to an enforced, nationwide 55 mph highway maximum speed.  Not to mention save some lives.
 
*crickets*

I am retired and most of retired driving is 4-5 miles a few times a week.  I have two cars.  One is a 2009 Mazda MX5 (Miata) that will get close to 45 mpg on the hwy on cruise.  The other is a 2008 Caddy DTS and believe it or not, it will do 29 MPG on the hwy at 55 MPH.  I only drive the Caddy when I make a trip to the Smokies or a Roadfood trip.
 
I am having difficulty understanding why anyone should pay in the $30's for a electric car when you can buy a Honda Civic that gets better MPG for a whole bunch of money less.
 
I had a Honda scooter that got 100 MPG that I drove to the grocery store, drug store and liquor store.  I had a luggage on the back and it was new and would do 40 MPH wide open.  I got a little scared of it and sold it for a few hundred dollars more than I paid for it.
 
I drive much less now that I am retired.
 
Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

Nancypalooza

joerogo


I really don't have a problem with anybody's reason for buying a Prius, Volt, etc.  Just do me one favor.....Stay out of the passing lane.  Your car was not made to sustain a high speed, even on the slightest incline.  And if you have you foot to the floor trying to keep up with big dogs, you are losing your gas mileage advantage, so stay on the porch with the puppies.  There, I feel better.

Nobody ever likes my suggestion.  We could put off the eventual necessity of converting entirely to non-gasoline combustion engines at least a handful of years by just going back to an enforced, nationwide 55 mph highway maximum speed.  Not to mention save some lives.
 
*crickets*

 
Oh you are right, I don't like that one.  I say kick it up to 75MPH and I'll buy carbon offsets
 
I have a scooter that gets 75MPG and will do 55 with ease.  I only get to use it for 6 months up here. 

Nancypalooza

joerogo


I really don't have a problem with anybody's reason for buying a Prius, Volt, etc.  Just do me one favor.....Stay out of the passing lane.  Your car was not made to sustain a high speed, even on the slightest incline.  And if you have you foot to the floor trying to keep up with big dogs, you are losing your gas mileage advantage, so stay on the porch with the puppies.  There, I feel better.

Nobody ever likes my suggestion.  We could put off the eventual necessity of converting entirely to non-gasoline combustion engines at least a handful of years by just going back to an enforced, nationwide 55 mph highway maximum speed.  Not to mention save some lives.
 
*crickets*

You are free to drive 55 on a freeway (in the right lane) if you wish, I don't mind. I'll cruise along at 65-70 when conditions permit, and be happy with that. With careful driving, I can squeeze 23mpg out of the Jeep, and 38 mpg out of the Hyundai without limiting my top speed to 55 on the freeway. It is all about being consistent and not jamming the throttle to pass a 55 mph slow poke. :) j/k
 
Today's cars could get much better mileage if it wasn't for the gubmint mandated air bags, side intrusion beams, along with "necessary" amenities like power windows, seats, A/C, etc. Compare the weight of a 2010 Toyota Camry and a 1970 Dodge Dart and you'll see what I mean.
 
A modern diesel would get much better gas mileage if it wasn't for the catalysts and particulate filters mandated by gubmint.
 
I think a 1990 Geo Metro was good for 60 mpg without batteries or hybrid gee-wizardry, just a small engine (1.0 liter) and light weight. But I would feel much safer in a Jeep Grand Cherokee in an accident though........

Tony Bad


Hey, if you want a project, I still have a 79 ---German made with round headlights ---48hp diesel out behind my shed. It was retired there after about 300,000 miles. The axle beam bolts on the left side rusted though, but I am sure you could get her going with some duct tape and string. My wife would be happy to have it vanish. I know what you mean about missing that car. It was so simple and basic. Another funny thing about the progression of diesels is that 79 always got around 50mpg, my 91 jetta, which was a big 52HP, got around 43-45mpg, and new TDI gets around 40-42mpg on highway use. Seems to be heading the wrong way. Is that progress?

Hey Tony,
 
Thanks for the offer, but as much as I'd love to be back behind the wheel of a diesel bunny, I am currently trying to figure out how I'm going to tell the missus that I just bought another motorcycle. (a "project" 1982 Yamaha Seca 650T)
 
Can you imagine the fuel economy of a diesel VW if they were able to have the common rail injection system with turbo - without the DPF emissions BS? (and afformentioned air bags, side intrusion beams, etc) You'd have a (more) fun to drive car with the same 50 mpg of the classics and three times the horsepower!
 
Back in '07 when gas shot up to over 3 bucks a gallon, a buddy of mine that works at a motorcycle dealer said that the owners of many old motorcycles were trying to get theirs fixed up and back on the road. They were turning the work away because it takes a lot of time to de-gunk carburetors and gas tanks that sat with fuel in them for decades. Wasn't worth the owners or the shops time to get 'em running again. They sold out of their allotment of smaller cycles (250-500cc) by July. Ninja 250's were getting several hundred dollars over list price, when previously, they had to be discounted. For some reason, nobody wants a "small" motorcycle here in the USA - just big, loud V-twins. But that's a rant for another day. :)
 
 
 
 
 

I push over 4 tons down the highway in a 5 cylinder Mercedes-Benz turbo diesel and get over 24 MPG and it is fast enough to drive on the Indianapolis 500 Race Track.

Audi has had great success with their diesels in racing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10_TDI

Maybe a diesel/electric hybrid would kick ass in the city and on the highway!

Davydd


I push over 4 tons down the highway in a 5 cylinder Mercedes-Benz turbo diesel and get over 24 MPG and it is fast enough to drive on the Indianapolis 500 Race Track.  

Open windows???


Didn't you get a rumble when you hit triple digits?

Tony Bad

Davydd


I push over 4 tons down the highway in a 5 cylinder Mercedes-Benz turbo diesel and get over 24 MPG and it is fast enough to drive on the Indianapolis 500 Race Track.  

Open windows???


Didn't you get a rumble when you hit triple digits?

Hey! I did that 2-1/2 mile lap in 8 minutes and 11 seconds with a top speed of 40 MPH on the backstretch. Indy cars do it in 39 seconds.

As to the electric cars, doesn't it take fossil fuel to create the electricity to charge the batteries? Where's the "green" part?

Not necessarily.  It can be nuclear generation, wind-generated, or any number of things that are in the development stages.  That's why there's currently a push toward electric engines, because there are more 'green' options available for the generation of electricity, although at this point they aren't cost effective.

I wouldn't buy a Volt, I will buy a Cadillac CTS-V, 558 HP, 0-60, 3.7 seconds. Amen!

chewingthefat


I wouldn't buy a Volt, I will buy a Cadillac CTS-V, 558 HP, 0-60, 3.7 seconds. Amen!

 
I just signed up to test drive one on a race track in Oct.  But if I buy one it will probably be the V-6 version.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/08/19/1630817/duke-energy-shows-off-electric.html

I wonder if this means that the utilities are starting to sniff around this, or if somebody at Duke Energy just wanted a Tesla to tool around in.

Nuclear generated I am for, but can we overcome the environmentalists who oppose it? Wind generated is not practical as most places do not have a consistently strong enough wind. I'm not trying to be negative. I just wonder about pushing for electric cars when the production of electricity is still a problem.

You should read more about wind, actually.  I don't know if you've seen the turbines they use for wind but I don't think they're as weather-dependent as you think.

"just the facts, M'am". I don't know what Joe Friday would have thought of this national debate. I've followed the subject for months, and even posted earlier in this thread. I listen to Rush and Fox, but also CNN and NPR, so I have heard a lot of noise. I'm sure that this fact has been "out there" for a long time, but the first time that this reasonably well informed guy got this fact was in the paper today. ... An electric car uses about 70 cents worth of electricity to get the energy of a gallon of gas. That is a good deal if the range/cost issues can be fixed.........but then as a previous poster mentioned, the gov't will figure out a way to tax the electricity used in the car. 

No, I wouldnt buy a Volt, but then again, I wouldnt buy any GM vehicle. I bought a 2000 Honda Civic new and it has 200K on it now with no issues other than regular maintenance items. I mean, not even a start, alternator, waterpump,,,nothing. I have never owned an american car that can claim that. The Honda spoiled me so I bought a 2003 Tundra and with 75K on it now,,,the same thing. I'll be buying a new Tundra next year too only because I want a crew cab and the extra horsepower to pull a camper.
 
Maybe GM, Dodge, and Ford can make vehicles as good, but it sure hasent been in my experience.