Chevy Volt, would you buy one?

Personally, I could think of many other nicer cars that I'd rather have for less money. A VW Jetta Turbo-Diesel can be had for about 25K, has great gas mileage, and decent power.

I have no plans or desire to buy one. We just purchased a 2011 Subaru AWD Outback wagon and I am hanging onto my 2004 Nissan Titan 4x4 pickup truck as long as it keeps running since I only put about 6,000 miles on it a year now doing mostly chores in retirement. So we are pretty set for some time. I don't think it would make for a good long distance traveling car given today's infrastructure. We have a diesel RV MB Sprinter camper van for that and it gets 24 mpg.

Why would i spend $40K for the equivalent of a Chevy Cobalt? Makes no sense to me. Not a chance! 

I'm a little tired of people saying that Ford, GM and Chrysler don't make the kind of cars that people want to buy. So now they have this 41K 4 seater shoebox while Toyota and Nissan are edging in on the SUV and pickup markets with the Tundra, Titan, Sequoia, and Armada. Chrysler will be selling crappy little Fiats, since they are owned by Fiat now. I remember Fiats, and I also remember why they haven't been sold on here in over 25 years!

That SUV and pickup market won't be a growth market for them unless they are very fuel efficient.
 
I'm not convinced that GM or Chrysler do make a car I'd want.

I don't see a market for the Volt. I can see having a small city car for grocery trips and work commutes but not at $41K. 16K sure. Buy a Ford Fiesta and invest the difference.

The new Fiat's are a vastly dfifferent car than those terrible ones in the past. I remember when Honda Civic's had a 50,000 mile life span and Hyundai's were a laughing stock so I wouldn't knock a 2011 Fiat just yet.

Well, the guys at BBC's Top Gear seem to like the Fiat, and I tend to believe them - they get to drive the coolest cars ever and are quick to point out any deficiencies.

A bunch of home repair necessities have my Toyota truck held over for the 16th year - still doing fine at 260K miles* - but I'm looking for something new that's small, cheap and high-tech...looking at the Fiesta's doppelganger, the Mazda 2.

*Top Gear famously tried to kill one of these, and just couldn't do it - the battered hulk has a place of honor on their stage.

I'd buy a Corvette, Volt ah , no!

I buy used former rental cars at dealer auctions. My current one, a 1997 Chevy Lumina sedan, was bought for 3800 bucks grand total back in 2001. In the ensuing years, outside of regular maintenance expenditures such as brakes, oil changes, and one set of tires, I've had only two repair bills for a total expenditure of $850.

I'm sticking with my method.

i will in a few yrs---but at used price not $40000!

MilwFoodlovers


That SUV and pickup market won't be a growth market for them unless they are very fuel efficient.
 
I'm not convinced that GM or Chrysler do make a car I'd want.

I don't see a market for the Volt. I can see having a small city car for grocery trips and work commutes but not at $41K. 16K sure. Buy a Ford Fiesta and invest the difference.

The new Fiat's are a vastly dfifferent car than those terrible ones in the past. I remember when Honda Civic's had a 50,000 mile life span and Hyundai's were a laughing stock so I wouldn't knock a 2011 Fiat just yet.

For the most part, the mid-sized SUV segment is rapidly being replaced with the relatively new "crossover utility vehicle" category. (Which is a minivan with hinged doors and an AWD option) Truck based SUV's are becoming a niche market for those that still need the towing capacity. The new Jeep Grand Cherokee is still a truck based SUV, the new Ford Explorer is basically a Taurus Wagon. The Ford F-150 is consistently the best selling vehicle in the USA.
 
As far as cars like the Volt or the Nissan Leaf (100% electric) being good "city" cars, I suppose so, if you have a garage with charging station in the city.
I owned a 1st gen Civic, it went 120K before developing a rod knock. (two head gaskets too) That was better than the Fiat X-1/9 which blew an engine at 60K. (after giving numerous other headaches) My friend had a Fiat 128, another POS. Renault was another horrible import. LeCar and the Alliance, sold at AMC dealers.
 
 

Would I buy one?  As much as I'd like a low operating cost vehicle, one must always remember:

General Motors + New model & technology = Disaster in the making

Beyond that, the vehicle has very little utility.  It is only good for short commutes and short shopping trips.  The first I do not have.  The second is not something I'd spend a large percentage of my annual salary to buy a specific vehicle to accomplish. 

The moral of the story:  Motor vehicles should not be designed by political appointees.

JRPfeff


Would I buy one?  As much as I'd like a low operating cost vehicle, one must always remember:

General Motors + New model & technology = Disaster in the making

Beyond that, the vehicle has very little utility.  It is only good for short commutes and short shopping trips.  The first I do not have.  The second is not something I'd spend a large percentage of my annual salary to buy a specific vehicle to accomplish. 

The moral of the story:  Motor vehicles should not be designed by political appointees.

Well, to be fair, the Volt was already in the works before General Motors turned into Government Motors. The Volt has become a symbol of what "they" want "us" to drive. (while they get driven around in Suburbans and Caddy Limos)
 
Think about this though. One of the reasons why driving a plug-in electric or CNG vehicle is less expensive is because the electricity or natural gas used in not taxed as a motor fuel like gasoline. If these technologies get popular enough, expect to have two meters in your home. One for domestic use, and one for road use. 
  
Makes me sick when I hear them cry about our crumbling roads and bridges. Well where in the hell did all the gasoline tax money go that was supposed to maintain the roads and bridges? Crooks...
 

TDog,

I hadn't thought of the motor vehicle electricity tax.

I did find interesting research showing the thermodynamic efficiency of plug-in electric vehicles is superior to internal combustion engine powered cars.  That part of the "green" of the Volt is real.

jrp

 And why does an electric car cost so much more than a gas powered??? Seems like it would be much cheaper to produce!

I think it's mainly the batteries. The LiPo batteries in the Volt are very expensive to produce. Lithium is also a very reactive chemical. Remember when laptops were banned from airplanes temporarily because of defective Lithium batteries catching on fire? I hope they are well protected in the Volt. Go to youtoob and look up lithium battery fire to see how spectacular a battery can combust.

Here is one on google video:
 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3690260570423705609#docid=-7999636960714830130
 
Not through short circuiting or overcharging, but mechanical impact........
 
 
Also notice that cordless electric yard equipment is more costly, and less powerful than their gasoline powered equivilants. You would think that a single cylinder gasoline engine, with all of its moving parts, would cost more than an electric motor and batteries.
 

 

JRPfeff

The moral of the story:  Motor vehicles should not be designed by political appointees.

A part of me would like to agree with you but I am afraid the Volt may very well be a symbol of what was wrong with General Motors that drove them to the circumstances they are in. As Trentondog said, it was in the works long before GM became "Government Motors". Unfortunately, this county could use some symbology for alternative energy and this was all they had. In a way it seems a latent embarrassment that had to be carried out because of all the time and expense that went into it.

I haven't seen one nor driven one yet. I hear they're pretty nice, but I reserve judgment until I get to spend some time with one. As much as I hope to like it, it will be going against other $40k automobiles; the argument for the Volt will have to be very compelling.

Factor in a $8000 tax credit and it brings the price down to...double what I would like to pay for a new car. Still, $32K is in the range of a lot of buyers...I'd like to see the cost difference between gas and electricity here.

A GM spokesman said the Volt should be thought of not so much as a car as an electronic device - to me that says 'a first-generation device is nosebleed expensive, but wait a bit and the price will go down' (I still haven't bought a flat-screen tv, mind you).

Back on Top Gear again, James May made a statement that the revolutionary alt-fuel car will be perfectly unexceptional - that is, it will barely alter the daily routine for people who practically live in their cars (this while he was trying out the hydrogen-powered Honda and filling up at an LA service station).

Vince Macek


Factor in a $8000 tax credit and it brings the price down to...double what I would like to pay for a new car. Still, $32K is in the range of a lot of buyers...I'd like to see the cost difference between gas and electricity here.

A GM spokesman said the Volt should be thought of not so much as a car as an electronic device - to me that says 'a first-generation device is nosebleed expensive, but wait a bit and the price will go down' (I still haven't bought a flat-screen tv, mind you).

Back on Top Gear again, James May made a statement that the revolutionary alt-fuel car will be perfectly unexceptional - that is, it will barely alter the daily routine for people who practically live in their cars (this while he was trying out the hydrogen-powered Honda and filling up at an LA service station).

 
Everyone is complaining about "tax cuts for the rich" - but the tax credit on the Volt and other Hybrids amount to a tax cut for the wealthy. I doubt your typical American family will be buying a Volt for their daily transportation. It will be purchased by well-to-do people as a second car to parade around and show everyone how eco-friendly they are while they live in their 4000 square ft. McMansions.
 
While the "revolutionary" alt-fueled car may be unexceptional as far as performance, comfort or even looks - it also MUST be unexceptional in price. Otherwise it is doomed to fail. The Volt, IMHO, is doomed to fail.
 
On another note, people equate Toyota and the Prius as the first Hybrid car for the masses, but in reality, it was the 1st gen Honda Insight that was the first mass produced Hybrid. The Prius is reduced to simply a symbol of "I am greener and better than you". Other Hybrids like the Camry, Civic, Accord, and even the redesigned Insight have dismal sales in comparison. Toyota won with its Prius and good marketing. The perception is that Toyota is a "green" car company while they focus on taking a larger share of the full size SUV/Pickup market with their gas guzzling Tundra and Sequoia.

Oh yeah, I know someone who bought an Insight back then - I drove it a bit and found it nicely 'unexceptional'.  Too bad it only seated two people.
I work for, and am related to, folks who drive Priuses (Priii?) - thankfully, they're not eco-smug elitists, they're just looking to not buy a lot of gas. I wish cars could be divorced from their socio-political connotations - I always admired BMWs, and was always bugged that they were seen as yuppie trophy cars.

Last year I visited the Studebaker Museum in South Bend, IN.  There I learned that Studebaker was an 1800's farm trailer manufacturer that started making cars in 1902.  They made only electric cars.  Thomas Edison bought the second one and advised them not to waste their time with gasoline cars because as soon as there was an improvement in battery efficiency no one would want a gas powered car.  They started hedging their bets in 1904 by making both, and decided in 1906 that the battery improvements were not going to happen and stopped making electric cars.

Some things never change – Over 100 years later and people with vested interests and people with no knowledge of science, engineering, technology or economics are promising electric car nirvana.
 
Some things have changed – We now have a huge infrastructure of pipe lines, refineries, tank trucks, filling stations, gas tank manufacturers, and gas tank disposal facilities.  While we do not have adequate power plants, transmission lines, substations, distribution lines, charging facilities, charging billing systems, or battery disposal facilities to handle a significant number of electric cars.
 
In addition we have a highway and road system that is paid for by gasoline taxes.  Not to mention other things like mass transportation that are highly subsidized by gasoline taxes.     


    

Vince Macek


Oh yeah, I know someone who bought an Insight back then - I drove it a bit and found it nicely 'unexceptional'.  Too bad it only seated two people.
I work for, and am related to, folks who drive Priuses (Priii?) - thankfully, they're not eco-smug elitists, they're just looking to not buy a lot of gas. I wish cars could be divorced from their socio-political connotations - I always admired BMWs, and was always bugged that they were seen as yuppie trophy cars.

I'm kind of a "techie" and I like the concept of the gas/electric hybrid car. And I too, wish that cars could be divorced from their socio-political connotations. BMW has really refined the inline six cylinder engine to perfection! I think the "yuppie mobile" stereotype has faded a bit, but it was in full force during the late eigties and early nineties. I think diesel technology has come a long way, and wish that more car makers would offer the same diesel powered cars and trucks they sell overseas here in America. I owned a VW Rabbit Diesel back in the late eighties - 50 mpg, but 0-60 in about 20 seconds. It went over 250K miles before the rings wore out and it regularly suffered from "diesel runaway" and had to be put to rest. I don't particularly dislike the Prius, but I loathe what it has become to symbolize.

plb


Last year I visited the Studebaker Museum in South Bend, IN.  There I learned that Studebaker was an 1800's farm trailer manufacturer that started making cars in 1902.  They made only electric cars.  Thomas Edison bought the second one and advised them not to waste their time with gasoline cars because as soon as there was an improvement in battery efficiency no one would want a gas powered car.  They started hedging their bets in 1904 by making both, and decided in 1906 that the battery improvements were not going to happen and stopped making electric cars.

Some things never change – Over 100 years later and people with vested interests and people with no knowledge of science, engineering, technology or economics are promising electric car nirvana.
 
Some things have changed – We now have a huge infrastructure of pipe lines, refineries, tank trucks, filling stations, gas tank manufacturers, and gas tank disposal facilities.  While we do not have adequate power plants, transmission lines, substations, distribution lines, charging facilities, charging billing systems, or battery disposal facilities to handle a significant number of electric cars.
 
In addition we have a highway and road system that is paid for by gasoline taxes.  Not to mention other things like mass transportation that are highly subsidized by gasoline taxes.     


    

 
Very nice history.
 
Funny, even our county golf courses here use Yamaha gas powered golf carts because of the high cost of maintenance of the electric golf carts.
 
Trains and buses should charge enough to cover their true cost of operation rather than be subsidized. Either the concept works or it doesn't. Pouring money into something that cannot sustain itself is the definition of stupidity.
 
 

 

Vince Macek


Oh yeah, I know someone who bought an Insight back then - I drove it a bit and found it nicely 'unexceptional'.  Too bad it only seated two people.
I work for, and am related to, folks who drive Priuses (Priii?) - thankfully, they're not eco-smug elitists, they're just looking to not buy a lot of gas. I wish cars could be divorced from their socio-political connotations - I always admired BMWs, and was always bugged that they were seen as yuppie trophy cars.

 
  My neighbor has an Insight. It literally looks brand new! I really like it!

jeepguy


 And why does an electric car cost so much more than a gas powered??? Seems like it would be much cheaper to produce!

BATTERIES!  South Korea just announced a HUGE--like billions-investment in battery development so dont be surprised of in the future you see Hyundai offering an affordable all electric car!

I would if gas went to $10 a gallon.

How much does it cost to charge it full for its 40 mile range? 1st year models always have lots of bugs that get worked out over the model style. And i would think that this model will be full of Gremlins. I think Electric cars are a passing fancy for much better things to come. Thay E-85 fuel was a bust and actually costs more than gas when you consider it gets about 20% less range on a tank.

Americans like and buy large vehicles and I doubt the trend will change.

They want us to use gas and alot of it. Like Diamonds I think there is way more than enough oil. I actually think it reproduces itself. I don't buy the dinasaur thing. Think about how much oil came out of that leak in the gulf. And that was just one rig and there are 1000's.
For Example:
My 1948 Ford truck with a flat head six got 18mpg. My 1971 Chevey C10 with a 307 got 19 mpg. My 2006 chevy Silverado gets 17 mpg.

...Russ

tmiles


I would if gas went to $10 a gallon.

If that happens the Horse will comeback...Russ

TrentonDog

 I owned a VW Rabbit Diesel back in the late eighties - 50 mpg, but 0-60 in about 20 seconds. It went over 250K miles before the rings wore out and it regularly suffered from "diesel runaway" and had to be put to rest. I don't particularly dislike the Prius, but I loathe what it has become to symbolize. 

A $3 baffle that kept the breather on top of valve cover from sucking in oil was all that was needed to fix this. Later diesels had this, but the early ones needed it as an add on. 

As for what a Prius symbolizes, that is all in YOUR head. I am sure some people buy them for good reasons that don't deserve your loathing. 

I was listening to a radio talk show about the Volt and the tax rebate.
 
Chevy claims the vehicle can go 340 miles before needing a 3-4 hour charge.  What they don't mention is that only 40 of the 340 are powered by electric, the other 300 are from the gas engine.  If true, I can't imagine plunking down that much cashola for the Volt.
 
I believe Toyota, Ford and Honda hybirds are a better price/value and better for the environment.  In California, Honda products produce zero emissions due to the gas formula(I believe they have the copper removed), excellent gas milage, no batteries to worry about and all at a much cheaper cost.
 
Maybe Tony will chime in with the stats on his VW.