Choke 'em Down Lunch Room

I found this picture in a gallery of Florida Great Depression photographs.  I'm pretty sure the Choke 'em Down Lunch is included in the 1937 version of the Stern's book.

What this photo of the diner doesn't say is that "Colored" would only be served through the back window and would not be allowed inside, FL is a Southern confederate state and its flag still flies the red diagonal kkkonfederate stripes and it is the same as its neighbor of Alabama flag with only the Fl state emblem in the center to differentiate it
 
South FL is the Caribbean but Central and North FL except for Tampa and Orlando city are in reality southern GA and AL

Wow. That's an awful lot to get from a photograph. I give your post "not long until removed for being needlessly confrontational."

jonjax71


What this photo of the diner doesn't say is that "Colored" would only be served through the back window and would not be allowed inside, ..........

Accorrding to the original website:
 
"Although housing was usually segregated by race according the social restrictions of the era, businesses in migrant worker communities such as diners sometimes transcended the constraints of segregation in order to provide services and amenities to as many of the agricultural workers as possible."
(emphasis added by me)

jonjax71


What this photo of the diner doesn't say is that "Colored" would only be served through the back window and would not be allowed inside, FL is a Southern confederate state and its flag still flies the red diagonal kkkonfederate stripes and it is the same as its neighbor of Alabama flag with only the Fl state emblem in the center to differentiate it
 
South FL is the Caribbean but Central and North FL except for Tampa and Orlando city are in reality southern GA and AL

 What a crock!  pb

Mosca


Wow. That's an awful lot to get from a photograph. I give your post "not long until removed for being needlessly confrontational."

 
Confrontational?  Surely you jest. Stating actual facts about US hisotry is not confrontational, you may not like it or feel comforatble about, I understand that, however it is not confrontational to simply report the facts.
 
Please refute any of words if you feel I have erred.

porkbeaks

jonjax71


What this photo of the diner doesn't say is that "Colored" would only be served through the back window and would not be allowed inside, FL is a Southern confederate state and its flag still flies the red diagonal kkkonfederate stripes and it is the same as its neighbor of Alabama flag with only the Fl state emblem in the center to differentiate it
 
South FL is the Caribbean but Central and North FL except for Tampa and Orlando city are in reality southern GA and AL

 What a crock!  pb

 
Please point out the crock part of my post

6star

jonjax71


What this photo of the diner doesn't say is that "Colored" would only be served through the back window and would not be allowed inside, ..........

Accorrding to the original website:
 
"Although housing was usually segregated by race according the social restrictions of the era, businesses in migrant worker communities such as diners sometimes transcended the constraints of segregation in order to provide services and amenities to as many of the agricultural workers as possible."
(emphasis added by me)

 
Although what you say is true, it doesn't imply "colored" were allowed inside, it only means they were served from the back of the eatery through a window, seperate facilties was the norm in pre-1964 Jim Crow South
 
Most folks are unaware that during WW2, captured German POWs being transported through the South were taken inside diners to eat, while Black GIs, the armed forces were almost completely segragated, were not allowed inside to eat. After WW2, there were many cases of lynching in the South of GIs returning from Europe who after experiencing non-segragation spoke out about conditions for them in the South, 2 or 3 were GIs were hanged in uniform

This is a great photo.  I had never thought about there even being small  Roadfood type restaurants  in this time period.  I sure wish that I knew what their menu was!  Does anyone else have pictures of really long ago restaurants to share?

jonjax71


South FL is the Caribbean but Central and North FL except for Tampa and Orlando city are in reality southern GA and AL

If that statement was true, I'd be able to get a lot better bar-b-q here in Melbourne, FL (Central East Coast).

 
 
Here's a photo my Dad took during his only tour in the South, circa 1941, he was called in to be the sub trumpeter for his pal who took ill. They had played at a juke joint in an suburban Tallahasee FL farming community
 
My pops and his bandmates-most of them seen here, were all from So Cal where they faced a different type of prejudice and racism, none of them had ever confronted Jim Crow and all of the seperate facilities of the South. My dad never returned to the South after this 2 week tour.

jonjax71


 
 
Here's a photo my Dad took during his only tour in the South, circa 1941, he was called in to be the sub trumpeter for his pal who took ill. They had played at a juke joint in an suburban Tallahasee FL farming community
 
My pops and his bandmates-most of them seen here, were all from So Cal where they faced a different type of prejudice and racism, none of them had ever confronted Jim Crow and all of the seperate facilities of the South. My dad never returned to the South after this 2 week tour.

 
Although it was on my screen before posting, the photo didn't show up so here,s the link to my Flicker Page, I am Dena Lover
 
The photo is on the right hand side and is a companion photo to thei thread's original photo and subsequent commentary
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30879283@N02/?saved=1

jonjax71

Mosca


Wow. That's an awful lot to get from a photograph. I give your post "not long until removed for being needlessly confrontational."

 
Confrontational?  Surely you jest. Stating actual facts about US hisotry is not confrontational, you may not like it or feel comforatble about, I understand that, however it is not confrontational to simply report the facts.
 
Please refute any of words if you feel I have erred.

Surely you didn't think that no one knew the facts about the Jim Crow south, or that JRPf didn't know them when he posted the picture. Those facts were not germane to the intent of the post, which was (IMO) the funny name, and the connection of "diner" to roadfood.

It would be factual for me to say that the picture is poorly focused and exposed, that the highlights are blown out, the shadow of the tree is distracting and the walkway leads the viewer's eye away from the subject. All of that would be true. It would also be needlessly confrontational, and not to the point of the post.

In other words, you took a post of a picture with a diner that has a funny name and made it into a commentary on Jim Crowism, as if there was some new ground that needed to be covered there, as if posting a picture with a reference to segregation was an invitation to damn the picture and the post. Segregation has already been damned, in case you hadn't heard.

jonjax71 -

I won't argue with you one way or the other about indoor service or out the back door for African Americans.  I have no way of knowing.

But you can sure use a geography lesson.  Belle Glade is in South Florida, South of Lake Okeechobee.

jrp

I understand the post was about the name of the diner but one cannot help noting the other sign and it was worth a comment too. Geography lesson aside and crock set aside, JonJax makes a point. For those never having lived in the era that sign could give a false impression that whites and blacks sat side by side inside in harmony. JonJax just pointed out what it probably really meant. I would tend to believe JonJax on this one. In that whole website I did not see a single integrated photo. If JonJax is wrong I would bet if blacks were served inside it would have been at a separate time.

In 1955 my family drove from Indianapolis to St. Petersburg and back and that was my first exposure to the South. It was 100% segregated. I took a bus from Indianapolis to Ft. Lauderdale and back in 1962 that stopped in just about every town down and back. Same thing. I never observed a single integrated facility at any stop. It was very blatantly segregated even in 1962 on the Greyhound Line. I suppose you could cite anecdotes to my observation but I would bet it would be a 1 in a 1,000 instance and about the same odds of JonJax being wrong. That's my opinion.

Aaaaaa, heck. I'm not trying to clean it up; my point is that it simply is what it is, was what it was. We should be able to look back on it and acknowledge that Jim Crow was part of that time. We shouldn't avoid posting pictures because they show evidence of segregation. To me that would be far worse.

The picture stands for what it is, and needs no further comment, is my point. If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time, and if there is something I missed, tell me, and I'll admit that I didn't see that side of it.

Yes...but the Big Gay Ice Cream truck thread had to be locked because that was just too uncomfortable and "begged for trouble"

When I posted this picture I naively took that sign at face value and thought the Choke 'em Down was an example of an integrated eating establishment in the South during the depression.  Being that these photos depicted migrant workers during an era of massive social upheaval, I don't know that my assumption is that far off.  A businessman or woman during the depression may have had to serve both blacks and whites to be successful.  Especially in this area of transient workers that may have been evenly divided between races.

Coastal and Southern Florida has long been more Northern than Southern in attitude.  As far back as 1939? Maybe, but I don't know.

 My TN and AL relatives do not even consider FL to be a southern state.  

Greymo


This is a great photo.  I had never thought about there even being small  Roadfood type restaurants  in this time period.  I sure wish that I knew what their menu was!  Does anyone else have pictures of really long ago restaurants to share?

Greymo,

I'm looking through the WI Historical Society photo collection.  I found this and will post more.

This diner was located on Williamson St. in Madison.  I have passed this very spot 1,000's of times without any sign of this diner from the 1950's.  Those are the MG&E smokestacks in the background.

Jim

WI Historical Society:

The Trolley Inn, diner, overnight cabins, and gas pumps, located on state highways 53 & 63, one mile south of Spooner. The juxtaposition of the former trolley car and the parked cars is an ironic representation of the way in which automobiles brought about the end of street railroads for urban transportation.

I had never considered that the automobile and diesel buses were the reason that Trolley Diners became prevalent.  As buses were introduced in the 1930's, the use of trolleys in public transportation abruptly ended (people hated trolleys, they were loud and uncomfortable, and demanded bus service).  These trolleys were not wanted for transportation, but at a cost of next to nothing they became prefab diners.  This photo is from 1941.

Those are great photos JPRfeff.

Greymo


... I sure wish that I knew what their menu was!  ...

Greymo - This may give you some idea.

WI Historical Society:

Woolworth's Window Display

F.W. Woolworth Company, 1-5 East Main Street, window display of restaurant menu and an array of desserts.

This picture was taken in Madison in 1928. 

I like the way they address the Homemade Pie peeve.  These pies are not homemade, they are Pies of our baking.


TIP:  Do NOT stand between buffetbuster and the entrance of Woolworth's.

As you can probably tell, I am having way too much fun with this.  The images in the WI Historical Society gallery are not limited to coming from within the state.  This one is from Chicago in 1932.



Here a challenge to the  Chicagoland members of The Contingent.  Identify the location of this restaurant, determine what is there now, eat there and post a report if it a restaurant. 

Added clues - the photo was donated by "McCormick - International Harvester."

WI Historical Society:

A "Tailoring and Remodeling" shop and restaurant are in the foreground at the entrance to a bridge, while a large utility pole with power lines, a number of tall apartment buildings, and a smokestack are in the background. The bridge may be part of Chicago's elevated train system.

This one is not fun and goes right to the point made at the top by jonjax71. 

This picture reflects the courage of these Civil Rights Protesters in fighting Jim Crow Laws in the deep south.  The term "Sit-in" did not have the peaceful connotation in the 1960's that it does today.  These protesters faced degradation and violence when they peacefully asserted their inalienable rights. I'm learning something this weekend.

The photo is from Jackson, Mississippi in 1963.

WI Historical Society:

Sit-in at Lunch Counter

Civil rights sit-in by John Salter, Joan Trumpauer, and Anne Moody at Woolworth's lunch counter. A crowd of people pours sugar, ketchup and mustard on them in protest.

JRPfeff


As you can probably tell, I am having way too much fun with this.  The images in the WI Historical Society gallery are not limited to coming from within the state.  This one is from Chicago in 1932.



Here a challenge to the  Chicagoland members of The Contingent.  Identify the location of this restaurant, determine what is there now, eat there and post a report if it a restaurant. 

Added clues - the photo was donated by "McCormick - International Harvester."

WI Historical Society:

A "Tailoring and Remodeling" shop and restaurant are in the foreground at the entrance to a bridge, while a large utility pole with power lines, a number of tall apartment buildings, and a smokestack are in the background. The bridge may be part of Chicago's elevated train system.

Maybe? http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=J+%26+J+Fish+%26+Chicken+8+E+Cermak+Rd+Chicago,+IL+60616-2108&sll=41.852926,-87.626858&sspn=0.479738,1.234589&ie=UTF8&hq=J+&%20J%20Fish%20=&%20Chicken=&hnear=8+E+Cermak+Rd,+Chicago,+IL+60616&ll=41.854571,-87.626824&spn=0,359.98071&z=16&iwloc=A

J & J Fish & Chicken
8 E Cermak Rd
Chicago, IL 60616-2108

ETR -

I don't think so.  The overpass needs to be concrete.

jrp

I was going to quit, then I ran into this photo taken by a guy who may be the original Roadfooder.

WI Historical Society

Breakfast Tray at Rennebohms

A snapshot of a partially eaten breakfast at an unidentified Rennebohm Drug Store cafeteria restaurant. The photograph was taken by Steven O. Kimbrough who was engaged in a personal project with friend Chuck Patch to eat breakfast and document every Rennebohms then in existence.

I can't imagine anyone around here doing that.

Rennebohm's was a local Madison drugstore chain that is now defunct.  They were everywhere, almost like Walgreen's today. 

The picture was taken in 1970.  I think Mr. Kimbrough's nickname was something like MadTownDiner or MadisonFoodLover.

Jim, I've got a pretty good idea of where that restaurant is. The highrise apartment buildings in the background, plus the electrified and elevated tracks of the former Illinois Central RR ( now Canadian National ) all tell me that this the Hyde Park neighborhood on Chicago's south side.