LockedCincinnati Chili

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Pat T Hat
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/05/31 16:55:03 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by porkbeaks

quote:
Originally posted by Josquin

Greetings, all. Never posted before, but this topic is worth registering to weigh in on. I'm in Minnesota now, but spent ten years in Cincinnati, and there is little more dear to my heart than Cincinnati chili. By default, I'm a Skyline fan, but only because there's a Skyline every 150 yards pretty much everywhere in town. There are two reasons I believe they are superior to Goldstar: 1. They use a thinner noodle. 2. They are less likely to stew said noodles into oblivion.

Regarding the celery question, my gut reaction is "no way." But I suppose anything is possible. Online recipes are almost never an accurate guide. For example, almost every one I've seen includes chopped onion, which is just no-way, no-how, present in the real thing. That's one of the reasons I love it.

Anyway, if you want to make it yourself, the best recipe I've found is at beergeek.com. I should probably mention that I am in no way affiliated with the site. Batch #13 is still the way to go, if you stop by.

Whew. That's it. Thanks for listening.

Jos

I finally got around to trying Cincinnati chili and used the recipe recommended in this post, Batch #13 at beergeek.com. I followed it to the letter and the unanimous opinion of my family (6 adults who all love chili) was that it sucked.....BigTime!




I've been eating and making Cincy "style" chili most of my life.
I don't have to make this recipe to know it's not even close to the chili parlors in town.
I'm not saying there's not someone in town who puts mustard in their chili, but I'll be damned if I can think of anybody. Add the lemon and vinegar to tomato sauce and paste and I'd have to imagine you had to of puckered.
Being that a proper Cincinnatian will not under any circumstances pucker, you see, this recipe cannot be correct!

The recipe on that site sounds closer to Cincinnati Mock Turtle soup than chili. Mock Turtle is mostly a west side (the best side) of town thing.
Although there are similarities in the meat texture and allspice is prevelant in both, the two are worlds apart.

To judge our wonderful spicy Greek meat gravy (for those that can't get over it, don't think of it as chili) on that recipe would be a shame.
If you get the chance, I hope you'll try the real deal
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Josquin
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/05/31 19:24:59 (permalink)
Now Pat, it's fine if you don't like my recipe, but you have to offer an alternative. I'm trying to make this stuff in Minnesota. I have eaten a great deal of Skyline in my day (more than may have been wise in many circumstances), and I think that recipe compares very favorably. I would welcome another suggestion.

Cheers,

Jos
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porkbeaks
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/05/31 19:51:27 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Pat T Hat

quote:
Originally posted by porkbeaks

quote:
Originally posted by Josquin

Greetings, all. Never posted before, but this topic is worth registering to weigh in on. I'm in Minnesota now, but spent ten years in Cincinnati, and there is little more dear to my heart than Cincinnati chili. By default, I'm a Skyline fan, but only because there's a Skyline every 150 yards pretty much everywhere in town. There are two reasons I believe they are superior to Goldstar: 1. They use a thinner noodle. 2. They are less likely to stew said noodles into oblivion.

Regarding the celery question, my gut reaction is "no way." But I suppose anything is possible. Online recipes are almost never an accurate guide. For example, almost every one I've seen includes chopped onion, which is just no-way, no-how, present in the real thing. That's one of the reasons I love it.

Anyway, if you want to make it yourself, the best recipe I've found is at beergeek.com. I should probably mention that I am in no way affiliated with the site. Batch #13 is still the way to go, if you stop by.

Whew. That's it. Thanks for listening.

Jos

I finally got around to trying Cincinnati chili and used the recipe recommended in this post, Batch #13 at beergeek.com. I followed it to the letter and the unanimous opinion of my family (6 adults who all love chili) was that it sucked.....BigTime!




I've been eating and making Cincy "style" chili most of my life.
I don't have to make this recipe to know it's not even close to the chili parlors in town.
I'm not saying there's not someone in town who puts mustard in their chili, but I'll be damned if I can think of anybody. Add the lemon and vinegar to tomato sauce and paste and I'd have to imagine you had to of puckered.
Being that a proper Cincinnatian will not under any circumstances pucker, you see, this recipe cannot be correct!

The recipe on that site sounds closer to Cincinnati Mock Turtle soup than chili. Mock Turtle is mostly a west side (the best side) of town thing.
Although there are similarities in the meat texture and allspice is prevelant in both, the two are worlds apart.

To judge our wonderful spicy Greek meat gravy (for those that can't get over it, don't think of it as chili) on that recipe would be a shame.
If you get the chance, I hope you'll try the real deal


First off here's the "beergeek #13" recipe I followed:

Cincinnati Style Chili Batch Lucky 13

2.5 lbs lean ground beef (extra fine grind if possible) — 80% lean
3 14oz cans Swansen’s Beef Broth (lower salt version) chilled
1 cup cold water

1 can tomato paste - (6 oz)
1 can tomato sauce - (8 oz)

.5 oz bitter chocolate
4 whole cloves
1/2 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp ground allspice
1 tsp vanilla
2 Tbsp Dark Brown Sugar
1/2 tsp ground ginger

1 tsp ground cumin
1.5 tbsp chili powder (dark)
1 tsp (Morton) kosher salt
1 tbsp ground black pepper
4 tbsp cider vinegar
2 tbsp Worcestershire sauce
1 tsp granulated garlic
2 bay leaves
1/2 tsp onion powder
1/2 tsp turmeric
1 tsp ground coriander
1/4 tsp ground mustard
1 tbsp lemon juice
1/2 tsp dried oregano

Gather all the spices, sauces, etc. in one container before starting — makes it easier.

If you use frozen ground beef, let sit in the COLD water until it is matched the temp and it is no longer frozen. Failure to do this will result in lumpy chili.

Place broth over medium-low heat and add the ground beef. Stir the ground beef into the cold broth. Continue to stir as the water is heated. The ground beef will nearly dissolve into the liquid developing into almost a meat paste. MMmmmm meat paste. Once dissolved, increase heat to high.

Add the other ingredients and continue to stir until the chili comes to a strong boil. Turn down the heat to maintain a simmer. Let simmer for 4-12 hours. The closer to 12 hours the better.

For best results, let simmer for at least 8 hours.

Once done, remove the bay leaves and cloves, if you can find them.

Refrigerate for 2-3 days before reheating and serving.

Once reheated, additional salt, pepper, cayenne pepper, and yeast can be added — to taste.

Serve as traditionally served or as you wish. I prefer over spaghetti with shredded cheese (3-way).


The objectional taste was not a "pucker" caused by lemon, vinegar, etc.. It was the combination of chocolate, cinnamon, cloves, ginger, and allspice. Cincinnati chili, spicy Greek meat gravy, or whatever you want to call it, it didn't taste good. The texture achieved by the extra fine grind meat didn't help matters either. I would, however, still give it another try if I'm ever in the area of Skyline, Camp Washington, or wherever the "best" example is served. pb
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dadetigl
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/05/31 21:04:57 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by porkbeaks

quote:
Originally posted by Pat T Hat

quote:
Originally posted by porkbeaks

quote:
Originally posted by Josquin

Greetings, all. Never posted before, but this topic is worth registering to weigh in on. I'm in Minnesota now, but spent ten years in Cincinnati, and there is little more dear to my heart than Cincinnati chili. By default, I'm a Skyline fan, but only because there's a Skyline every 150 yards pretty much everywhere in town. There are two reasons I believe they are superior to Goldstar: 1. They use a thinner noodle. 2. They are less likely to stew said noodles into oblivion.

Regarding the celery question, my gut reaction is "no way." But I suppose anything is possible. Online recipes are almost never an accurate guide. For example, almost every one I've seen includes chopped onion, which is just no-way, no-how, present in the real thing. That's one of the reasons I love it.

Anyway, if you want to make it yourself, the best recipe I've found is at beergeek.com. I should probably mention that I am in no way affiliated with the site. Batch #13 is still the way to go, if you stop by.

Whew. That's it. Thanks for listening.

Jos

I finally got around to trying Cincinnati chili and used the recipe recommended in this post, Batch #13 at beergeek.com. I followed it to the letter and the unanimous opinion of my family (6 adults who all love chili) was that it sucked.....BigTime!




I've been eating and making Cincy "style" chili most of my life.
I don't have to make this recipe to know it's not even close to the chili parlors in town.
I'm not saying there's not someone in town who puts mustard in their chili, but I'll be damned if I can think of anybody. Add the lemon and vinegar to tomato sauce and paste and I'd have to imagine you had to of puckered.
Being that a proper Cincinnatian will not under any circumstances pucker, you see, this recipe cannot be correct!

The recipe on that site sounds closer to Cincinnati Mock Turtle soup than chili. Mock Turtle is mostly a west side (the best side) of town thing.
Although there are similarities in the meat texture and allspice is prevelant in both, the two are worlds apart.

To judge our wonderful spicy Greek meat gravy (for those that can't get over it, don't think of it as chili) on that recipe would be a shame.
If you get the chance, I hope you'll try the real deal


First off here's the "beergeek #13" recipe I followed:

Cincinnati Style Chili Batch Lucky 13

2.5 lbs lean ground beef (extra fine grind if possible) — 80% lean
3 14oz cans Swansen’s Beef Broth (lower salt version) chilled
1 cup cold water

1 can tomato paste - (6 oz)
1 can tomato sauce - (8 oz)

.5 oz bitter chocolate
4 whole cloves
1/2 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp ground allspice
1 tsp vanilla
2 Tbsp Dark Brown Sugar
1/2 tsp ground ginger

1 tsp ground cumin
1.5 tbsp chili powder (dark)
1 tsp (Morton) kosher salt
1 tbsp ground black pepper
4 tbsp cider vinegar
2 tbsp Worcestershire sauce
1 tsp granulated garlic
2 bay leaves
1/2 tsp onion powder
1/2 tsp turmeric
1 tsp ground coriander
1/4 tsp ground mustard
1 tbsp lemon juice
1/2 tsp dried oregano

Gather all the spices, sauces, etc. in one container before starting — makes it easier.

If you use frozen ground beef, let sit in the COLD water until it is matched the temp and it is no longer frozen. Failure to do this will result in lumpy chili.

Place broth over medium-low heat and add the ground beef. Stir the ground beef into the cold broth. Continue to stir as the water is heated. The ground beef will nearly dissolve into the liquid developing into almost a meat paste. MMmmmm meat paste. Once dissolved, increase heat to high.

Add the other ingredients and continue to stir until the chili comes to a strong boil. Turn down the heat to maintain a simmer. Let simmer for 4-12 hours. The closer to 12 hours the better.

For best results, let simmer for at least 8 hours.

Once done, remove the bay leaves and cloves, if you can find them.

Refrigerate for 2-3 days before reheating and serving.

Once reheated, additional salt, pepper, cayenne pepper, and yeast can be added — to taste.

Serve as traditionally served or as you wish. I prefer over spaghetti with shredded cheese (3-way).


The objectional taste was not a "pucker" caused by lemon, vinegar, etc.. It was the combination of chocolate, cinnamon, cloves, ginger, and allspice. Cincinnati chili, spicy Greek meat gravy, or whatever you want to call it, it didn't taste good. The texture achieved by the extra fine grind meat didn't help matters either. I would, however, still give it another try if I'm ever in the area of Skyline, Camp Washington, or wherever the "best" example is served. pb



I moved away from Cincinnati in 1973 and spent the next 25 years trying to reproduce "Cincinnati chili" at home. My mother would send me Cincy chili recipes from the Cincinnati Enquirer to help me out. Some of them were close, but not the same. They were close enough to feed my need but not the same as eating it in a chili shop in Cincy. They finally got frozen Skyline Chili at my local grocery store so now I use that. Even then, it is still not as good as in the restaurant.

If you don't like Cincinnati chili, Fine. Cincinnatians don't really care. More for them. Until you eat in a Skyline, Camp Washington chili shop, don't bash our chili because you will never be able to reproduce it at home. I tried for 25 years with the help of the local newspaper. It is not a Texas chili where you can throw anything you want into the pot with a bunch of hot sauce and cumin. Cincy chili is a unique flavor and apparently a secret recipe.

Josquin has it right. You either love it or hate it. You don't really grow up with it or grow to love it and if you're comparing it to something else then you probably won't like it.

How many cities can boast having a truly unique dish. Maybe San Francisco with Cioppino, but all other unique dishes are usually regional. Cincinnati has it's chili as it's truly unique dish.

Sorry for the rant. I had a 4 way using the frozen Skyline tonight for dinner. Now if I could just find those tiny hot dogs......<g>
#64
Michael Hoffman
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/05/31 21:21:20 (permalink)
That does it! I have just so much resolve. Tomorrow night I'm going to have a large four-way with onions from Skyline.
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enginecapt
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/05/31 21:42:39 (permalink)
Isn't that a five-way?
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Michael Hoffman
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/05/31 22:12:46 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by enginecapt

Isn't that a five-way?

Nope. A five-way has the spaghetti, chili, onions, beans and cheese. A four-way can have either the onions or the beans, in addition to the spaghetti, chili and cheese.
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 09:40:17 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:
Originally posted by enginecapt

Isn't that a five-way?

Nope. A five-way has the spaghetti, chili, onions, beans and cheese. A four-way can have either the onions or the beans, in addition to the spaghetti, chili and cheese.



Well, nope again. There is a near-sacramental order to the -ways.

Three = cheese
Four = cheese and onions
Five = cheese, onions, and beans

So a four-way with beans would actually be "Five-way, no onions."

Myself, I prefer a five-way, inverted, dry, extra cheese.
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Michael Hoffman
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 10:20:59 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by jmckee

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:
Originally posted by enginecapt

Isn't that a five-way?

Nope. A five-way has the spaghetti, chili, onions, beans and cheese. A four-way can have either the onions or the beans, in addition to the spaghetti, chili and cheese.



Well, nope again. There is a near-sacramental order to the -ways.

Three = cheese
Four = cheese and onions
Five = cheese, onions, and beans

So a four-way with beans would actually be "Five-way, no onions."

Myself, I prefer a five-way, inverted, dry, extra cheese.

Not at the Skyline near me. A three way is spaghetti, chili and cheese. A four way can be either onions or beans, and a five-way, of course, is all of them.
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TJ Jackson
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 10:41:32 (permalink)
jm, my experience also is that a 4 way is either beans or onions, so in fact that when one orders a 4-way, one needs to say 4-way-bean or 4-way-onion.

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enginecapt
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 10:47:56 (permalink)
I have so much to learn....
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 10:49:41 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by enginecapt

I have so much to learn....

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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 11:28:13 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by TJ Jackson

jm, my experience also is that a 4 way is either beans or onions, so in fact that when one orders a 4-way, one needs to say 4-way-bean or 4-way-onion.




That may be my problem. I haven't looked at a menu at Skyline since, oh, say, 1968.
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Pat T Hat
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 11:51:26 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by enginecapt

I have so much to learn....


The way of "The Way" is what it is! Wait till you get the de-coder ring.



Josquin, I didn't say I didn't like your recipe. It looked like something I'd eat! I'm saying I can't conceive a taste comparison to any "Cincy Chili" I've eaten.
The vanilla, lemon and mustard is a variation I've never seen before.
Hey I'm game...! Maybe this week, I'll let ya know!

I've also hardly ever seen it not made without fresh, finely chopped onion. They stew on down to almost nothing is probably why you don't think they're in there. I like to sautee' them till they start to carmel before hand to sweeten it up a bit.

I admit I do rely heavily on powdered onion and garlic and I like your notation about using dark chili powder in addition to cumin.
I use a touch ground clove and though I know some that use ginger I'm in the no ginger camp.

It seems to me that the real key to authentic flavor is the quality and freshness of the allspice and the meat texture of whatever kind is your favorite.

I don't worry to much about how the meats ground.
I like my texture a little fine but my Mama for example likes it a little beefier (she's an old Gold Star on Walnut fan. I'm from the old Empress on Vine, "way" of thinking)).

I get it somewhere in the middle using a wand or stick blender. They will give it any texture you want, especially when you get those chunkies.
Best damn invention there's been since the pot for soups, sauces and such.

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UCmba97
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 12:03:34 (permalink)
I used to "hang out" at a place in St bernard called Cosley's (after the old reds ball field). Right down the street (walking distance if you'd had too many adult beverages) was a place called Chili Time. Open late. Just down from Roger Bacon High School. They not only had a great Cinti sytle chili, but also made a concosion called Chili chese gravy fries. Wavy cut fries on the bottom, cinti chili, chedder cheese, goetta gravy (like white sausaage gravy) and then we toped it with hot sause. Yummy at 2:30 am with scrambled eggs on the side and toast.
I was born north of Cinti (Hamilton), moved away, came back for college, and love all Cinti style chili types. I bring cans of it back from Ohio to S. Carolina when I drive north for a visit.
FWIW, There is also a Goldstar in Ft. Myers Florida. A semi-retired Cincinnatian owner for sure. I know lots of Ohioans vacation or winter in Ft. Myers as it's right on I-75 and easy to get to.

Enjoy!
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 12:49:22 (permalink)
Michael

Just got back from lunch

Skyline- Large 4way with bean, wet, xtra crackers*, special sauce, and a bigger plate and a bib.

Put the crackers on the bigger plate
Slide the wet 4 way off onto the bigger plate
Add only a few drops of the special sauce
Put on plastic bib
Dig in

* Special Sauce is "Blair's After Death Hot Sauce" kept under the counter for special customers

Come on down and dig in

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Michael Hoffman
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 14:19:34 (permalink)
I bring my own hot sauce to Skyline.
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TJ Jackson
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 14:37:12 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by UCmba97

Right down the street (walking distance if you'd had too many adult beverages) was a place called Chili Time.

It's still there, still open til 4am, etc etc. I called to confirm just now

http://citybeat.com/gyrobase/Restaurant/RestaurantListing?restaurant=Chili%20Time
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TJ Jackson
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/06/01 14:39:28 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by jmckee
That may be my problem. I haven't looked at a menu at Skyline since, oh, say, 1968.

I generally (exceptions made for Price Hill Chili and Camp Washingon Chili, which have broader menus that the typical chili joint) don't look at the menus either - but I'm not just talking Skyline, I'm talking ALL the chili parlors that I have been to are this way.....
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/06 02:21:02 (permalink)
Hot sauce on Cincy chili? I would think that a vinegar-based hot sauce would foul the original flavor of the chili. If you want heat, why not a little black pepper or bring a twist of cayenne?
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/06 08:49:52 (permalink)
1-3 types of hot sauce are on every table at virtually any chili parlor in town, actually....and generally you'll get a packet or two by default (more if you ask) in any carryout bag.....
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/06 16:40:06 (permalink)
Hi, I've been reading here for a long time, this is my first post.

I had Skyline Chili for the first time last week, even though I have been driving by it and wondering for 20 years now. I did not find the flavour unusual, being Greek. The different layers combined are fantastic. (I had the 5-way.) I liked the hot sauce, but thought it took away from the complexity of the dish, so I'll leave that off next time. I plan to go back tomorrow and have the 5-way again, with a cheese coney.

By the way, I went to the Skyline on Federal Highway in Ft. Lauderdale. It may be surprising to know there is another west of Ft Lauderdale, but it seemed most of the customers were from Ohio, so I guess there is a demand down here.

I'll be back many times.
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/07 05:51:48 (permalink)
Also since it's a chili place,it's the best for Fresh HOT fries out of the fryer.Esp with their hot sauce (referring to Skyline).
Goldstar I consider as more of a Texas style,with chunks of green peppers,etc. Not bad,just a different exp.
Genuine T style,of course,is a completly diffrent(sp?) animal,I know.
But my fav is a 6 way,offered just over the river in Newport Ky, that includes fresh chopped garlic,by Dixie Chili.
I imagine I could get it that way at Skyline,just never thought to ask while there-BG.
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/30 21:17:08 (permalink)
The Cincy chili I've had is like soup, watery and lacking in flavor and body. Gold Star and Skyline.

If I were in the area and had a taste for chili I'd stop at the Waffle House.
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/30 21:54:24 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by westsidetommy

The Cincy chili I've had is like soup, watery and lacking in flavor and body. Gold Star and Skyline.

If I were in the area and had a taste for chili I'd stop at the Waffle House.

If you have a taste for chili then you don't want Cincinnati-style chili. If you want Cincinnati-style chili what you want is a particular sauce, not chili.

I love Cincinnati-style chili, but I also love chili, and the two are from different galaxies.
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/30 22:02:43 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:
Originally posted by westsidetommy

The Cincy chili I've had is like soup, watery and lacking in flavor and body. Gold Star and Skyline.

If I were in the area and had a taste for chili I'd stop at the Waffle House.

If you have a taste for chili then you don't want Cincinnati-style chili. If you want Cincinnati-style chili what you want is a particular sauce, not chili.

I love Cincinnati-style chili, but I also love chili, and the two are from different galaxies.


Absolutely!
#86
TJ Jackson
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/30 22:24:18 (permalink)
*shrug*

One could also say the clear-brothed chowder of Rhode Island is not chowder at all, and that person would be just as right as the two of you are regarding Cincinnati-style Chili.
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/30 22:27:20 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by TJ Jackson

*shrug*

One could also say the clear-brothed chowder of Rhode Island is not chowder at all, and that person would be just as right as the two of you are regarding Cincinnati-style Chili.

Not the same at all. The fact is, the Greeks who came up with Cincinnati-style chili name had no idea what chili was.
#88
wanderingjew
Sirloin
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/30 22:35:22 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by TJ Jackson

*shrug*

One could also say the clear-brothed chowder of Rhode Island is not chowder at all, and that person would be just as right as the two of you are regarding Cincinnati-style Chili.


Oh, I don't care what you say about Rhode Island chowder, as you know I'm not originally from Rhode Island anyway. We all know that Manhattan Clam Chowder is the "real stuff" anyway.

As far as what they call Chili in Cincinnati, you'll have to leave it up to Mr. Hoffman to discuss the historical aspects, I was agreeing that Cincinnati Chili is couldn't be different from what most would consider "traditional style" chili. Even Tex Mex Chili is quite different from what most chili lovers would expect.
#89
TJ Jackson
Filet Mignon
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 00:13:16 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:
Originally posted by TJ Jackson

*shrug*

One could also say the clear-brothed chowder of Rhode Island is not chowder at all, and that person would be just as right as the two of you are regarding Cincinnati-style Chili.

Not the same at all. The fact is, the Greeks who came up with Cincinnati-style chili name had no idea what chili was.

Actually, it is exactly the same. Did they call it (in the end, when all the dust settled and it was ubiquitous)?

sauce?
gravy?
stew?
greek glop?
mediterranean mud?

No

They called it....as we Cincinnatian's call it now.....chili.

Come on down 71 you old fart, and I'll even buy you a bowl, AND let you call it anything you want :-)

With or without beans, your call, no judgements. I wish we Cincinnatians could get the same in return......
#90
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