LockedCincinnati Chili

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Michael Hoffman
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 01:04:53 (permalink)
Now, you see, I happen to love Cincinnati-style chili. But it took me a long while to reconcile the fact that it's not really chili. Once I was able, in my mind, to completely disassociate it from real chili everything fell into place. Cincinnati-style chili is a sauce that bears not the slightest resemblance to actual chili. It's good. I love it, but it's not chili.
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porkbeaks
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 10:26:06 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

....it took me a long while to reconcile the fact that it's not really chili. Once I was able, in my mind, to completely disassociate it from real chili everything fell into place. Cincinnati-style chili is a sauce that bears not the slightest resemblance to actual chili..

I'm in 100% agreement with you on this much. To some, however, it tastes like a sauce that is so heavily spiced, the freshness of the meat could be questioned. To consider the recipe for this sauce to be some chili variation, is a reach.
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ncmike1
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 11:05:25 (permalink)
Oops,
I'm new to this forum, and didn't mean to post that last reply here, it obviously belongs elsewhere.
Anyway...
I agree with Jokadama and Hoffman. Cincinnati "chili" is a misnomer. I lived in Texas and New Mexico for most of my life, and I've also had Cincinatti "sauce". I refuse to call it chili, because it's not in any sense...Look it up in Websters...nowhere is spaghetti mentioned. Spaghetti? ? ? Ye gods!
Websters: Chili: 2 a: a thick sauce of meat and chilies.
OR Chili con carne: a spiced stew of ground beef and minced chilies or chili powder usually with beans
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PapaJoe8
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 15:52:21 (permalink)
Ncmike, welcome to Roadfood! Lotsa great info about chili in this section.

Shanghai Jimmy served his famous chili rice in Dallas for many years, great stuff! It was even sold at the Sate Fair of Texas.

Wolf Brand chili is good over sketty w/ some sharp cheddar and jalapenos. I was makin that here in Texas long before I heard about Cincy chili. I thought I invented chili and sketty, shoot %^&*.
Joe
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TJ Jackson
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 16:08:21 (permalink)
I guess you all can point at a steak and call it a chicken, and point at a chicken and call it a steak, if that's what floats your individual boats.

If you grew up in Cincinnati, you'd have no issue calling it chili.

I find it discouraging that in this forum, hosted as it is on a website where the core mission is to not only merely accept but to *revel* in the culinary differences between regions, posters find themselves unable and/or unwilling to accept a regional difference.
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porkbeaks
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 17:05:29 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by TJ Jackson

I guess you all can point at a steak and call it a chicken, and point at a chicken and call it a steak, if that's what floats your individual boats.

If you grew up in Cincinnati, you'd have no issue calling it chili.

I find it discouraging that in this forum, hosted as it is on a website where the core mission is to not only merely accept but to *revel* in the culinary differences between regions, posters find themselves unable and/or unwilling to accept a regional difference.


Could a poster dare to suggest that, "in some regions, Miracle Whip is a must ingredient when making Reubens"? Or more to the point, could it be suggested without meeting resistance from those who are sure nothing tastes good with Miracle Whip? Probably not. I like Miracle Whip, but I find it does not improve the taste of pastrami at all. For the same reason, I find myself unable to "revel" in those quirky "spicial" ingredients that make your personal regional specialty so very different. Perhaps the whole problem has to do with calling it chili, just as Mr. Hoffmann has suggested. pb
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TJ Jackson
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 17:17:53 (permalink)
Revel in your intolerance, then

I doubt you'll find any reasonable roadfooder - yourself naturally excepted - that would consider Miracle Whip a "regional" food
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Pat T Hat
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 18:24:17 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by porkbeaks

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

....it took me a long while to reconcile the fact that it's not really chili. Once I was able, in my mind, to completely disassociate it from real chili everything fell into place. Cincinnati-style chili is a sauce that bears not the slightest resemblance to actual chili..

I'm in 100% agreement with you on this much. To some, however, it tastes like a sauce that is so heavily spiced, the freshness of the meat could be questioned. To consider the recipe for this sauce to be some chili variation, is a reach.



Now I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure that's why it may be called..."Cincinnati Chili".

The "Cincinnati" part, is the part that helps avoid all the "chili" confusion for chili "purists" I'd imagine.

Oh my word what will be next? Best be leaving my oyster crackers alone" />!
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PapaJoe8
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 18:36:14 (permalink)
Pat, Shanghai Jimmy served oyster cackers w/ his chili rice! Oh, and lemonaide. Oh, and chopped celely as an optional topping. This all happened in Texas!

My sweety insists on a mix of mirical whip and mayo in some of her dishes. Kinda like those ketchup mixers.

And oh, about celery in Cincinnati Chili? I made some w/ celery and liked it.
Joe

#99
ncmike1
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 18:59:28 (permalink)
The big deal in Kansas City is Loose Meat chili. You sit down, they serve you a bowl of cooked hamburger meat, and you put what you want in it...onions, vinegar, whatever. And when I first had it, I was just a kid, and even then I thought, "This isn't chili."
So..whether you call it Cincinnati Chili, Loose Meat Chili or whatever..it's just some Northern City's way of cashing in on the name of a food that originated in the Latin American countries, and found it's way to perfection in Texas. Now...when you go to New Mexico it's spelled chile, and there are two kinds, red and green, and this was the forerunner of the TexMex version which concentrates on the red version, but even that is different because they use cumin mixed with their chiles, whereas you seldom taste cumin in NM chile.
It's silly to say you can call a steak a chicken. Just silly, because there is absolutely no similarities, whereas Cincinnatians want to call their concoction chili because of its similarity to CHILI...or at least they wish it was.
quote:
I find it discouraging that in this forum, hosted as it is on a website where the core mission is to not only merely accept but to *revel* in the culinary differences between regions, posters find themselves unable and/or unwilling to accept a regional difference.

We ARE reveling in regional differences!! And I never said that I didn't like Cincinnati chili, just that I THOUGHT it was a misnomer. And I DO accept that regional difference.
So quit yer gripin' LOL And revel in the differences.
PapaJoe8
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 19:11:39 (permalink)
Mike, that loose meat chili sounds good. Hmmm, what to add to my bowl???
Joe
ncmike1
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 19:18:42 (permalink)
LOL PapaJoe8,
It is pretty good, but tain't chili.
PapaJoe8
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 19:47:10 (permalink)
Anyone who would dare to read the entire chili section here at roadfood might have a whole new idea about what chili is.

I was told as a kid, by my PawPaw over a Wolf Brand chili dog, that real chili was made with ransid meat and enough chili powder so you could eat it. Hmmm, did he tell me that to make my chili dog taste better ar worse??? That is my still my speculation as to how the first bowl of chili was made, by some trail cook on a cattle drive, so he wouldn't have to waste that spoiled meat. Don't get me wrong, I love chili of all kinds. If anyone calls it chili I'll eat it and also call it chili.

I was hoping to get some feedback about celery in Cinci chili. Many recipes call for it but I can find no evadence that any chili parlor in Cincinnati will admit to using it. Hmmm? I think it may be a well kept secret ingreadent.
Joe
ann peeples
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 20:03:12 (permalink)
Once again, I agree with Mr. Hoffman and the rest of you.Cinncinati chili is not chili to me, but a good taste.When Bob brought me a sampling from his travels, I was shocked at the taste initially-but have grown to like it...
Josquin
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 20:06:20 (permalink)
Papa, I may be one of the new kids around here, but in my humble opinion, you would be laughed out of any self-respecting chili parlor in Cincinnati for asking about celery. It just isn't done, and (also in my humble opinion-all of my opinions are pretty humble, really) it would ruin the whole wretched mess. Whatever you call it, sure is good eatin'. And I'm not even a native.

Cheers,

Jos
PapaJoe8
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 20:17:15 (permalink)
Josquin, nice to meet you! And..... ur right of coarse. We have had more than a few discussions here at roadfood about this subject. The strange thing is,,, if you do a google for Cincinnati chili recipes, you will find houndreds that call for celery. Why is that I wonder?
Joe
Sundancer7
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 20:24:27 (permalink)
I have never had celery with any chili but in my opinion only, it sounds good to me. Nothing like adding something to anything to meet your own taste.

I have always been a fan on Cincinatti Chili.

Paul E. Smith
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PapaJoe8
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/07/31 20:27:40 (permalink)
Well said as always Paul!
Joe
TJ Jackson
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 00:17:19 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by ncmike1

It's silly to say you can call a steak a chicken.

Yep, it is. It is in my mind similarly silly to point at Cincinnati-style chili and name it something other than chili, especially on this particular website. There is an important difference between saying "it is a chili that is like a sauce" and saying "it is not chili, it is a sauce".

quote:
Originally posted by ncmike1

Just silly, because there is absolutely no similarities, whereas Cincinnatians want to call their concoction chili because of its similarity to CHILI...or at least they wish it was.

Correction....we KNOW it is chili.

Not think.

Not want.

Know.

The difference is that some folks (unlike many who have contributed to this particular thread of late) accept that there are regional variations in chili....which isn't surprising, because those who come here *generally* accept the mission statement of the website overall. We're seeing some folks who are the proverbial "exception to the rule" in this thread of late

quote:
Originally posted by ncmike1

We ARE reveling in regional differences!!

No, you (plural) are saying it isn't chili at all. Thats a failure to accept a regional variation, not 'reveling' in regional variation.
ncmike1
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 00:53:02 (permalink)
TJ Sounds like you are just an argumentative person who likes to start things.
I think it's perfectly fine on "your" precious website to question a regional variation on food.
This isn't the holy scripture here.
If somebody wants to argue about some regional variation in MY part of the country that's fine with me. It's THEIR OPINION!!
TJ Jackson
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 01:14:50 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by ncmike1

TJ Sounds like you are just an argumentative person who likes to start things.

Incorrect.

You will find the start of the 'argument' (your term, not mine) in three posts in a row dated 7/30/2007 on page 3 of this thread. You will not find that I wrote any of these three posts, and ergo 'started' nothing.

quote:
Originally posted by ncmike1

I think it's perfectly fine on "your" precious website to question a regional variation on food. This isn't the holy scripture here.

Correction: This is not my website.
You are fully entitled to your opinion, however ill-thought out it is.

quote:
Originally posted by ncmike1

If somebody wants to argue about some regional variation in MY part of the country that's fine with me. It's THEIR OPINION!!

Then you are fine with me stating my opinion on behalf of our local variant - Cincinnati-style chili. Glad to hear it.
Pat T Hat
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 01:24:24 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by PapaJoe8

Pat, Shanghai Jimmy served oyster cackers w/ his chili rice!




Cool beans! A wise and sage man that Shanghai Jimmy!
(Uh oh...said the "B" word.)

(Wait a minute...This is the "CINCINNATI CHILI" thread...whew, it's OK then)


Howya been Joe?
Your chili topic is a must read for all true chili heads and affectionado's!
Michael Hoffman
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 11:00:23 (permalink)
Relax TJ. Cincinnati chili is something very special. I love it. I had a large four-way with onions and two coneys -- no cheese -- just the other night at Skyline. I'm planning to hit a Gold Star at Jeffersonville in the next week for at least one of their foot-longs. But it's not really chili, as chili is known and understood almost universally.

Now, I fully admit that when it comes to chili I am absolutely one-way. If it has beans it's not chili, as far as I'm concerned. If it has a tomato product it's not chili. And if it has chocolate and cinnamon it is definitely not chili.

But you can call Cincinnati chili anything you like. Me? I just call it Cincinnati chili, and I don't care that it's not chili.
TJ Jackson
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 11:23:06 (permalink)
But it is Chili :-)

(and now you say....no it isn't.....then I say, yes it is....lather, rinse, repeat. )
Michael Hoffman
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 11:45:16 (permalink)
Of course it's chili. Didn't I call it Cincinnati chili?
Sundancer7
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 12:18:36 (permalink)
Guys, why don't you all settle down. We can argue till Christmas on what is chili. Maybe it is and maybe it ain't but we have all been calling it chili since this forum was born.

You all are staying civil and we will let it be before we start using the eraser.

Respectfully to all

Sundancer
Paul E. Smith
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 12:40:59 (permalink)
Thing is, it isn't CHILI unless you're arguing about what is and isn't chili!


Tom
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 12:41:58 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by ncmike1

So..whether you call it Cincinnati Chili, Loose Meat Chili or whatever..it's just some Northern City's way of cashing in on the name of a food that originated in the Latin American countries, and found it's way to perfection in Texas.


Good point. Though wrong as Cincinnati chili makes no claims to be a version of the Latin American based stuff. Its roots are Greek.
Michael Hoffman
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 13:02:26 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by ncmike1

..it's just some Northern City's way of cashing in on the name of a food that originated in the Latin American countries, and found it's way to perfection in Texas.

Your grasp of chili history is extremely loose, to say the least. Chili did not originate in any way, shape, or form in any Latin American country. Chili originated in the North American Southwest -- most likely in San Fernando de Béxar, which is now called San Antonio, where it was prepared in the early 1700s by women from a group of 16 families that had emigrated from the Canary Islands. What they made was a spicy Spanish stew using chiles, according to historians.

Historian Charles Ramsdell: "Chili, as we know it in the U.S., cannot be found in Mexico today except in a few spots which cater to tourists. If chili had come from Mexico, it would still be there. For Mexicans, especially those of Indian ancestry, do not change their culinary customs from one generation, or even from one century, to another."

Diccionario de Mejicanismos, published in 1959, defines chili con carne as (roughly translated):

“detestable food passing itself off as Mexican, sold in the U.S. from Texas to New York.”

Have a nice day.

TJ Jackson
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RE: Cincinnati Chili 2007/08/01 13:08:36 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

Of course it's chili. Didn't I call it Cincinnati chili?

err.....you also said

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

......and I don't care that it's not chili.


so.....you're waffling :-) Not surprising given your interest in a certain local hash-brown heaven :-)

Ever consider a career in politics? :-)
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