Cincinnati Chili

quote:

Originally posted by TJ Jackson

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

Of course it's chili. Didn't I call it Cincinnati chili?

err.....you also said

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

......and I don't care that it's not chili.

so.....you're waffling :-) Not surprising given your interest in a certain local hash-brown heaven :-)

Ever consider a career in politics? :-)

I'm not waffling.I'm not even Waffle Housing. As far as I'm concerned it is definitely Cincinnati chili.

Very well then :-)

Can we all accept the statement that "Cincinnati Chili is to chili as Hawaiian Pizza is to pizza?" pb

Well put PB! Now we need for you to get to work on world peace! :~)

We have had these same type discussions about Pizza. Someone said not to call that round mac n cheese stuff pizza, or the PBnJ round things. But... if they call it Pizza on the menu it might be a Pizza.
Joe

quote:

Originally posted by porkbeaks

Can we all accept the statement that "Cincinnati Chili is to chili as Hawaiian Pizza is to pizza?" pb

Not I. Cincinnati chili actually is made with chili powder. But pineapple on dough ...?

It is a nice effort at a compromise, Porkbeaks, but no....the correct statement is "Cincinnati chili is chili" ala "Maryland crabcakes are crabcakes" and "White rice is rice"

PJ8

I have a good friend that manages the Skyline here in Lawrenceburg, IN. The local skylines don't know what is in the chili. It comes frozen from the commisary in big blocks.

According to him, even the commisary people do not know the whole recipe. the spices come pre mixed in a bag. So they add part A to Part B and Part C, heat and stir, then freeze.

I have eaten skyline for 30 yrs, I know there is no actually celery in the cincinnati chili, but who knows if celery salt is in there.

As for the argument about Cincy style chili being real chili??

You say Toe May Toe, I say Toe May Tah, you say Poe Tay Toe, i say Poe tah tah

If you like it eat and enjoy it!!!!!!!!

Ahhh, celery salt!!!! Thanks CK! Could be why soooo many Cincy chili recipes call for celery???? If celery salt is good on a Chicago Dog.............
Joe

quote:

As for the argument about Cincy style chili being real chili??

To me, the only real chili is a heaping four-way, with extra oyster crackers and an extra squeeze of hot sauce. If you don't think that's chili then that's just your problem.

quote:

Originally posted by FlippyTheRed

quote:

As for the argument about Cincy style chili being real chili??

To me, the only real chili is a heaping four-way, with extra oyster crackers and an extra squeeze of hot sauce.

How sad.

I'm just as much in disagreement with this statement (the polar opposite of earlier statements) that Cincinnati Chili is the ONLY chili

I frankly don't think there is any one dish that is "real" chili. There's the beanless Texas variety, the "wacky" (a Stern word) Cincinnati stuff, the chile of the Southwest, basically a spare and elegant stew of pure chile pepper, and many other things in between. As outlined in Jane Butel's "Chili Madness" and the Sterns' own "Chili Nation", Chili in all its forms is a truly multistate passion.

And the search for "purity" can be counter productive. Calvin Trillin punctuates a story in one of his books about the people who say "this isn't the true Aioli" or "they don't make Boulliabase this way in France" by remembering a time he was eating Gazpacho at a friend's house, and holding forth on how this differed from the authentic version he had in Spain. As he wolfed down more of the Gazpacho, he realized that one way it was different from the Genuine Article was that it tasted better.

He also said, in a piece about Cincinnati chili, "I like chili, but not enough to argue about it with anybody from Texas."

Which is good, because, as the late Charles Kuralt said in a piece about a Texas Chili Cook-Off, "Texans will argue about anything."

A little fuel to the fire. Please read before you debate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_con_carne

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

quote:

Originally posted by Sundancer7

A little fuel to the fire. Please read before you debate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_con_carne

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

As is so often the case with anything in Wikipedia, the orgins are wrong.

in the very least, the wikipedia entry shows that there is no single absolute chili. The origins of a food can always be contested.

I let it drop

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

quote:

Originally posted by jmckee

I frankly don't think there is any one dish that is "real" chili...

Well, just what makes chili, chili, then? (or chile, chile?) I was born in New Mexico, and grew up in Albuquerque. My Mom was Mexican, my Dad Norwegian. I’m sure that I have chile in my blood. I don’t remember having pureed green chile as a baby, but I can’t swear that it didn’t happen, either. From my experience (and I think that I’ve eaten chile (or chili) in every state but North Dakota) if it tastes like chile, it IS chili.
First and foremost, it has to have the flavor of the pod. Whether red or green, fresh, frozen, chopped, diced, dried, ground into a powder, whatever—if it doesn’t have that taste, it is NOT chili. If it doesn’t also have the flavors of Mexican oregano, cumin, and red meat, you’ll have an uphill fight convincing me to call it chili. Having said that, I will admit to having had more than one bowl of vegetarian chili that I would accept as the real McCoy. Likewise chile verde in Arizona where I could taste no cumin whatsoever. If it tastes like chile, it is.

quote:

Originally posted by jmckee

I frankly don't think there is any one dish that is "real" chili...

I’ll agree with that, I’m not a member of the P. C. (pure chili) police. But some things just should not be called chili.

I don’t want to see somebody making a concoction of lobster, codfish, clams, goose breast, and peppercorns, tossing in a half tsp of cumin, serving it with cranberries on top of seaweed, and calling it “Maine Chili.” I don’t want my Dad to make a spicy stew with lutefisk and sour cream, and call it “Oslo Chili.” Back in the sixties, my mother-in-law in Omaha used to fry up some hamburger, add a teasppoon of chili powder, a can of kidney beans, a can of Campbells tomato soup, and call it chili. It wasn't. But she was sure that the spicy foods I favored (very rare in those years in someone named Dahlquist) would kill me before age thirty.

I’ll accept Cincinnati Chili only because the term is so well known and is descriptive of a particular food. That, after all, is the point of naming things.
I’ll accept chicken fried steak for the same reason. Even though it is not chicken, (arguably not steak either) if I see it on a menu, I know exactly what to expect on my plate.
Likewise, although soda crackers are made with baking soda, and cornbread with corn, where’s the oysters in oyster crackers? I won’t go in to the missing HAM in hamburger. The point is that that some food names (including Cincinnati Chili) enjoy such widespread acceptance and use that there is no point in trying to suppress them out of some silly sense of linguistic purity.
dahl

Cincinnati Public Library blog, quoting the Sterns in "Chili Nation":

http://www2.cincinnatilibrary.org/blog/entries/chili-nation

Cincinnati Public Library blog, quoting the Sterns in "Chili Nation":


Oh, what do THEY know? LOL

Cincinnati loosemeat can't be far off. pb

Also, interesting read:
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/09/04/Weekend/Yo__try_this_cheesest.shtml

For some wild chili ideas read the fantasy chili parlor thread. Note: chili purest warning!

Oh, the Roadfood discription of this section mentions Cinci chili.
Joe

So, on the stove right now is simmering a slightly tweaked version of Batch #13 from the Beergeek website. I upped the chocolate to an ounce, and halved the brown sugar, since the last batch I made struck me as a little sweet. My house smells wonderful, and I can't wait to dig in. I'll let you known about the changes. You know, maybe the trouble with duplicating Skyline is that most of the time I was coming directly from the bar. Maybe I should relax about the recipe and have a few beers first. Anyway, what I find interesting about this stuff is that there is almost no consensus among posted recipes. It's weird. Maybe that just comes from being secretive about the real thing. But it seems no two recipes I find agree even on the basic points, like whether or not to brown, whether or not to add onion, and so on and so on.... I've even seen quotes like, "You know you're in a fake chili parlor when they....", followed by a detail with which I totally disagree. No matter what the variation, folks are passionate about this stuff.

Cheers,

Jos

Jos, the fantasy thread was about what you would serve in your chili parlor if you had one. It kinda evolved into a giant chili parlor w/ everyones ideas. It has a REAL LARGE menu!!!!!
Joe

Hello All,
All I care is if it tastes good.
Take Care,
Fieldthistle

Cincy Chili is really Greek spagetti sauce which has cinnamon and choclate in the recipe. It is then put over noodles with the additon of shredded cheese. Options are beans and onions which complate a 5 way. The best and oldest is Skyline started by the Lambrinides family. For many it is a acquired taste. I love it.

Welcome to the boards, Dan

Cincy Chili is really chili, not a spaghetti sauce.

quote:

Originally posted by TJ Jackson

Welcome to the boards, Dan

Cincy Chili is really chili, not a spaghetti sauce.

No, it's not. It's a spaghetti sauce. Welcome to the boards, Dan! pb

FWIW

http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/Chili/ChiliHistory.htm



1922 - Cincinnati style chili is quite different from its more familiar Texas cousin. It is unique to the Cincinnati area and it was created in 1922 by a Macedonian immigrant, Tom (Athanas) Kiradjieff. He settled in Cincinnati with his brother, John, and opened a hot dog stand with Greek food called the Empress, only to do a lousy business because nobody there at the time knew anything about Greek food. So, it is said, that they called their spaghetti chili. He created a chili made with Middle Eastern spices which could be served a variety of ways. His "five-way" was a concoction of a mound of spaghetti topped with chili, then with chopped onion, then red kidney beans, then shredded yellow cheese, and served with oyster crackers and a side order of hot dogs topped with shredded cheese.




Although that site has a long list of sources it is quoting, I'm not sure where the cincinnati chili info came from.

quote:

Originally posted by porkbeaks

quote:

Originally posted by TJ Jackson

Welcome to the boards, Dan

Cincy Chili is really chili, not a spaghetti sauce.

No, it's not. It's a spaghetti sauce. Welcome to the boards, Dan! pb

Oh for gosh sakes, no it's not. It's chili. One of many, many, MANY MANY MANY different forms of chili in America.

To say that there's only one form of chili is like saying there's only one form of barbecue. Or that either thin crust or thick crust pizza is the only form of pizza. And being good Roadfooders we know better..

quote:

Originally posted by TJ Jackson

Welcome to the boards, Dan

Cincy Chili is really chili, not a spaghetti sauce.

I grew up eating homemade, thick con carne. I moved to Kentucky and all you could get was Gold Star. To my tastes, it was closer to spaghetti sauce than chili, and not on the "good" side of either. The locals swear by it though.