Coney Islands

As befits my handle here,I have been wondering just how many little lunch places in this country of our serve chili dogs of some stripe,and are called 'Coney Island'...I know there are some cities that have several places with that name.....maybe we can come up with a list!

In Detroit and the surrounding suburbs, there are hundreds of coney island shops. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Coneys were the "official" cuisine of Detroit. I believe these coney shops are of greek origin and they all serve the classic coney dog with chili, mustard and onions. They go great with a Vernor's Ginger Ale.

Detroit has lots of great coney places (i.e., American and Lafayette downtown), but I put my money on Flint coneys (especially Angelo's). The "wet" coney sauce of Detroit can't beat the "dry" coney sauce of Flint (As a side note, in my view there are chili dogs and then there are coneys. Coney sauce is not the same as chili...). Angelo's piles the onions high - you smell like the restaurant for days. I must say that my wife disagrees and this has prompted heated debates .

At any rate, since moving to Kansas we miss coneys of both the Detroit and Flint varieties. We also miss Vernor's, but usually fill our car with it when we visit relatives in the region.

Worcester MA has George's Coney Island. It's got a 3-story high Art Deco neon sign featuring a disembodied hand holding a hot dog, which drips mustard down the side of the building.

The hot dogs are tasty little Kayems. The chili sauce is dry. Triple ground chili meat cooked in an ancient blackened cauldron that sits on a burner behind the grill. They cost under a dollar well into the 90's.

A Greek Orthodox priest worked the line for many years. He would wear his collar under his white kitchen shirt. It made the whole experience feel, well, sanctioned in some way. I miss it so.

I neglected to mention that George's has been in business since 1918, and that the preferred beverage is chocolate milk.

wanderingjew is right on. A Coney Island must have chili sauce (triple ground, no beans), chopped onions, and mustard. Anything else is just a chili dog. I wonder why.

Here in Roanoke, Va. we have a little place downtown called the Texas Tavern. A ten stool hole in the wall that has been serving "Coney Hot Dogs" (at least that is what is on the sign)since the 30's. Although mustard, chile (no Beans) and onions are available, the standard is a dog with what is known as "Carny" relish and chile. Carney relish is chopped cabbage, sugar, mustard, salt, pepper and dill pickle brine. Of course you can have your dog "with" or "without" onions. They also serve chile beans, little hamburgers (onions, dill pickle slices, and mustard) and a few egg sandwiches. One is, egg, a hamburger patty, and a slice of cheese,also with the relish and pickle.

What's being described as a "chili dog", or "coney island" is usualy called a "texas hot wiener" here in the Hudson Valley of New York . Steamed hot dog (the quality of the hot dog itself varies greatly from joint to joint) on a steamed roll, chili sauce,mustard choppped onions. That's usually ordered as
"Two with everything". I like milk with mine...

Seafarer...where Hudson Valley??? Here in Middletown, the joint [and the dogs] is called just plain old 'Coney Island' [est. 1924]..with the standard chili/onions/mustard...plus the chocolate milk...which I STILL do not understand....

Coney Island Lou: Kingston and Poughkeepsie. They both have restaurants named Dallas hot wieners. or Texas Hot wieners
that have been around since at least the early 1930s. It is possible that the name has attached to all chili dogs in those communities because of the restaurants having introduced the product to those places. Or maybe Middletown is just a Catskill Mountain town and not really part of the Hudson Valley like the River cities. Seriously, it is possible that Middletown being on Rt 17 - gateway to the Catskills- gets more of its culture from NYC than the river towns do. Whatever the local name they are great dogs and I love them. The place in Poughkeepsie, corner of Main and Cherry, had a counterman who, as teens, we liked to bug.
We always asked what kind of pie thay had. He would respond,
"WE got two kinds a hopple- hopple and pinehopple". We thought that was hilarious.

At Many of the Gold Star Chili Parlors in the Cincinnati area they offer a pair of Coney's as a choice for those who can't decide on 3 way, 4 way, or 5 way chili. They are 'small' (about 6 inch) chili dogs with a mess of grated cheese on them . Nothing to drive out of your way for....but in a pinch they fill the tummy.

In Scranton PA there are TWO Coney Islands about a block from each other. Both claim to be the "original" and serve Texas Weiners. The talk around town is that a feud caused a split, but I don't know exactly. Probably because I've never been a big fan of either (though it's been awhile since I've visited). It might be because they use brown mustard on their dogs. Eek!
The Original Coney Island (on Adams Ave.) is actually underground and is quite a sight.

The best Texas Weiners I've had in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are at the Central Lunch in Pittston (nice, spicier sauce, but get them to go---it's very smoky inside). Not bad: Liberty Restaurant and Keystone (Main Ave. in Scranton, about a block from each other).

Still, none can compare to those at Libby's Lunch in Paterson, NJ. The clear cut winner (along with Rutt's Hut) in a six hour, six hot dog New Jersey blitz a few months back. My tummy still aches!

Happy Mother's Day !
I'll salute the Detroit Coney Islands, the Orginals
Lafayette & American Coneys, located Next Door to each other
Which was something I never could firgue out
Steamed Hog Dog Buns
Grilled natural casing dogs, that Snap when biten
Coney Island sauce, not the same as Chili, no Beans
Smothered in diced Onions ... Extra for me please ...
A number of years ago, Queen Elizabeth was visiting Windsor, Ontario
and the reports are that she sent a car for a large carry out order !
Delivered to her Hotel Room in Canada
Can you get a better endorsement

Actually John..now that I think about it Newburgh has a Texas Lunch also...hmmm..maybe its the water from the Hudson that does it! as far as Middletown being a Catskills town..well....Middletown has ALWAYS been kind of an odd duck in the area - not really a Hudson River Valley town,not really a Catskills town,not a tri-state town like Port Jervis, and certainly not part of the so-called 'golden triangle' of Goshen,Monroe,Washingtonville...just kind of sits where it is on its own....

Here in the northeastern-most corner of NY (Clinton County-Plattsburgh, etc., 50 mi or so northeast of Lake Placid) we have a very unique hot dog creation called a "Michigan". No one seems to know for sure how the term came about, but more about that shortly.

A proper "Michigan" is served in (on?) a "New England Style" roll with a pocket sliced on the bread side not the crust side. A steamed dog is inserted first (unless you are have yours "buried", then the onions go in the bun first) followed by "Michigan" sauce. The sauce is what makes these things so special. In general it is moderately splicy hamburger based. Most places make their sauce using a tomato paste base, but after the sauce simmers for 6-8 hours, you probably wouldn't notice that. After the sauce then comes a squirt of mustard followed by finely chopped onions.

I've eaten a lot of meals in a lot of places around the country and never encountered anything quite like our Michigans. There are numerous restaurants (mostly drive-in or similar) where these treats are the featured item. The sauce varies from location to location, but is terrific almost anywhere. Most of the establishments have a very loyal following and the debate about who has the best reminds me of the "tastes great/less filling" debates.

My favorite is a seasonal place called Clare and Carl's. There is also Nitzis (aka McSweeney's) Gus', Ronnies and numerous others. I've seen 'Michigans" on menus boards in other parts of New York State, but they just aren't the same as those served in Clinton, Essex and part of Franklin Counties of N.Y. and a small slice of Northwestern Vermont along the east shore of Lake Champlain.

If anyone is interested enough, the Plattsburgh local paper, The Press Republican (www.pressrepublican.com)has a link which tells more of the story. The also elaborate about how these creations came to be called Michigans.

"I'll have 2 with and a fry to go"!!

Wally

As a footnote: The Middletown Coney Island's original location burned down about 12-13 years ago..it was interesting: the ruins had the distinct smell of 70 years of chili sauce that was absorbed into the woodwork! The original family sold out about 5 or 6 years ago,and the quality has suffered....

Even here in Fresno, we have a Coney Island shop... I was originally excited to find the place, especially when I discovered it had just been saved from the wrecking ball. HOWEVER when my husband and I tried the darn things....YUCK!!! I've had greek chili before and this was just nasty... it tasted like someone had dumped an entire box of cloves into the mix.. and yet the place is always full.... go figure.

The hot dog with mustard, onions, and beanless chili, or chili sauce is called in North Jersey a Texas Weiner. It originated in the Paterson area in the 1920's and is the fore runner of the Coney Island dog. There are 2 types of this dog. The Hot Texas Weiner, which is a deep fried pork and beef dog topped with onions, mustard and Green chili sauce, and the Plainfield area Texas Weiner, which is cooked on a griddle rather than deep fried, and has a thicker chili sauce. For a detailed look at the Hot Texas Weiner including history and pictures, see http:www.memory.loc.gov/ammen/wiphtml/essay6/essay6.html

I used to think that Coneys were limited to the Northeast, but we've found them as far west as Nebraska and in the deep South. The one place I'm pretty sure you won't find one is Coney Island.

Sorry, the above link is no good. If you want to read the article, do a Google Search for "Paterson's Hot Texas Wiener Tradition" and click on the first article shown.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Stern

I used to think that Coneys were limited to the Northeast, but we've found them as far west as Nebraska and in the deep South. The one place I'm pretty sure you won't find one is Coney Island.

Considering that the Coney Island (Amusement park in Cincinnati), where these things got their name no longer exists I can understand why you won't find one there.

I remember a Coney Island in downtown New Haven, Connecticut back in the late '40s and early '50s. I could never understand why they called their little hot dogs with some strange sort of brown stuff on them Coney Island hot dogs as I'd been to Coney Island and all the hot dogs I found there were served with mustard, relish and sauerkraut.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Stern

I used to think that Coneys were limited to the Northeast, but we've found them as far west as Nebraska and in the deep South. The one place I'm pretty sure you won't find one is Coney Island.

Considering that the Coney Island (Amusement park in Cincinnati), where these things got their name no longer exists I can understand why you won't find one there.

I remember a Coney Island in downtown New Haven, Connecticut back in the late '40s and early '50s. I could never understand why they called their little hot dogs with some strange sort of brown stuff on them Coney Island hot dogs as I'd been to Coney Island and all the hot dogs I found there were served with mustard, relish and sauerkraut.

...Because the "Coneys" in the Northeast (Rhode Island in particular) were named by guys who came here by way of New York and made "Coney Sauce" (a kind of fine-grind chili) part of the package. To this day, Rhode Island Coneys are best enjoyed in "New York System" restaurants such as[url='http://www.roadfood.com/Reviews/Overview.aspx?RefID=89']Sam's[/url].

quote:

Originally posted by ConeyIslandLou

As befits my handle here,I have been wondering just how many little lunch places in this country of our serve chili dogs of some stripe,and are called 'Coney Island'...I know there are some cities that have several places with that name.....maybe we can come up with a list!

quote:

Originally posted by ConeyIslandLou

As befits my handle here,I have been wondering just how many little lunch places in this country of our serve chili dogs of some stripe,and are called 'Coney Island'...I know there are some cities that have several places with that name.....maybe we can come up with a list!

Well, nothing like reviving a dead topic, but...

In the late '60s, when visiting family in Cincinnati, I remember going to a little Mom and Pop place that as I recall was right there in my Uncle's neighborhood. It was a take out place that sold Coney Islands. They were shorter than a regular hot dog and smothered in chili and onions. Don't remember any sauce or mustard. But I do remember we brought home a bunch of them and they were one of the best things I had encountered up to that time.

I'm pretty sure that little place must be lon gone...

In the Altoona, PA area there are several at least three Coney Islands.

Walt

Herron,

You'll be happy to know that you can order all the Vernor's you want -- and Faygo pop and Sanders Hot Fudge (!!!) -- online:

http://www.vernors.com

I was born and bred in Detroit and am now a New Yorker. Interestingly, one of the places I believe one cannot find a Coney Island hot dog is... Coney Island!

quote:

Originally posted by gschwim

I was born and bred in Detroit and am now a New Yorker. Interestingly, one of the places I believe one cannot find a Coney Island hot dog is... Coney Island!

I suppose that's because of Nathan's Famous presence on Coney Island?

An nice summerazation appears here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coney_Island_hot_dog

Isn't the difference between a 'Coney Island', and a 'Texas Weiner/Hot' really the level of hotness of the sauce? On our Jersey Dog Runs, I have noticed that the chili at all the places down there was distinctively hotter than 'my' Coney Island's sauce. Manny's was the closest to the spice/heat level of CI Middletown. I remember John Fox commenting upon tasting the Middletown sauce how 'balanced' it was....

quote:

Originally posted by ConeyIslandLou

Isn't the difference between a 'Coney Island', and a 'Texas Weiner/Hot' really the level of hotness of the sauce? On our Jersey Dog Runs, I have noticed that the chili at all the places down there was distinctively hotter than 'my' Coney Island's sauce. Manny's was the closest to the spice/heat level of CI Middletown. I remember John Fox commenting upon tasting the Middletown sauce how 'balanced' it was....

I am no expert on defining a proper Coney Island. My only first-hand experience is my afroementioned encounter in the late '60s in Cincinnati, where part of the attributes of a Coney Island seemed to include its size--shorter than a regular hot dog.

Here in Athens, GA we have The Varsity (also in Atlanta) where they are famous for their chilli dogs. I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed with them, mainly because the chilli is very, very bland. It's really just finely ground beef, apparently mixed with something bland, giving it a spoonable consistency. Not much in the way of discernable spiceiness. But the Varsity is a local Atlanta/Athens fixture.