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 Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches

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fatdaddy

  • Total Posts: 9
  • Joined: 10/30/2007
  • Location: Sacramento, CA
Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sat, 01/5/08 2:35 PM (permalink)
Hey All,

I'm in Northern Ca (Sacramento) and I finally got my cart!

Going with a Chicago theme - Chicago Dog's, Maxwell Polish, Italian Beef (???) and yes I'll still have Sabbret Red Onion Sauce, NY Style Dog and maybe pretzels.

Was wondering where I could get Italian Beef or a substitute in the CA area or Online, although shipping costs cut way into the profit margin? I just want the beef I've seen kits all over the place but offering the sandwiches at $4.50 and ordering a kit doesn't make sense - $0.20 $0.30 a sandwhich.

Can't make it myself... Must be prepackaged and reheated....

Also any ideas on where to order Poppyseed Buns????
 
#1
    phatphil

    • Total Posts: 643
    • Joined: 9/25/2005
    • Location: loxahatchee, FL
    RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sat, 01/5/08 2:56 PM (permalink)
    go to vienna's website and click locator, you will see 30 chicago hot dog places in california,i think sysco food distributors sells vienna bulk products.if csd sees this im sure you will get more info.
     
    #2
      ShellysDawgHouse

      • Total Posts: 469
      • Joined: 3/18/2007
      • Location: parlin, NJ
      RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sat, 01/5/08 5:10 PM (permalink)
      I want to do Italian beef been looking at some recipes and i am gonna give it a go VERY sooon. I will try it at home first and then see. Sounds yummy.
       
      #3
        Dr of BBQ

        • Total Posts: 3158
        • Joined: 10/11/2004
        • Location: Springfield, IL
        • Roadfood Insider
        RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sat, 01/5/08 9:28 PM (permalink)
        quote:
        Originally posted by ShellysDawgHouse
        I want to do Italian beef been looking at some recipes and i am gonna give it a go VERY sooon.


        It is the easiest item to make and I can do it with my eyes closed. But a couple of weeks ago Buddy Roadhouse brought me some from Big Al's in Chicago, although I don't care for the texture (it's sliced) it was great. The only difference in his and what I currently make is they are adding some Tarragon to the mix. Tarragon is one of my all time favorite spices, so I'll start adding it to mine when I make the next batch. The basics are so simple, I use inside round (don’t trim the fat) throw it in a six inch pan add garlic, salt, pepper, oregano, some flat leaf parsley, onions, thyme, dried marjoram, and finally a very small touch of fresh basil. I use commercial bullion cubes (beef) and throw two of them into a two cup container filled with water, put it in the microwave until hot dump it over the meat and dump the rest of the ingredients right on top of the meat. Cover it with foil and cook it at 250 for about 7 hours. Mine falls apart. And it gets great reviews.
        Jack
         
        #4
          fatdaddy

          • Total Posts: 9
          • Joined: 10/30/2007
          • Location: Sacramento, CA
          RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sat, 01/5/08 10:15 PM (permalink)
          Thanks Guys,

          Dr. BBQ I know this is gonna make you fall off your seat...But guess what I found today?

          Pre-Cooked Pulled Pork! No Sauce! Here in Nor-Cal I can't serve anything off my cart that isn't pre-cooked and packaged...

          Originally I set out to start a BBQ joint but that would take far too much time and money to get off the ground so I went the Hot Dog route - with the end game in mind.

          Still looking to keep the Italian beef on the cart so as to offer one sandwich and keep with the Chicago theme... But if that doesn't work out (shipping to CA is almost as much as the product) I'm gonna include a "mock" Pulled Pork Sandwich. Doesn't appear to have the chewy "Mr. Brown" but I figure I can season it a bit, add some liquid smoke and maybe pull it off. I'll Dr. up the sauce a bit as well KC Masterpiece).

          I will try it out next week. Tonight we are trying out the Sabrett Red Onion sauce and doing Dog taste tests. Tomorrow night we try out the Chicago with our favorite dog...

          It's 15.00 per 5 lb. bag.... About how many oz. of Pork do you put on your sandwiches? I was going to go with a Hoggie roll and throw on some slaw pre-made of course...).
           
          #5
            Dr of BBQ

            • Total Posts: 3158
            • Joined: 10/11/2004
            • Location: Springfield, IL
            • Roadfood Insider
            RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sun, 01/6/08 12:26 AM (permalink)
            quote:
            Originally posted by fatdaddy



            Dr. BBQ I know this is gonna make you fall off your seat...

            Pre-Cooked Pulled Pork!

            Originally I set out to start a BBQ joint

            Still looking to keep the Italian beef on the cart

            I'm gonna include a "mock" Pulled Pork Sandwich.

            I figure I can season it a bit, add some liquid smoke

            I'll Dr. up the sauce a bit as well KC Masterpiece).

            It's 15.00 per 5 lb. bag.... About how many oz. of Pork do you put on your sandwiches?


            Ok now that I have picked myself up off of the floor not once but 3 times. LMAO

            Here are some thoughts. I know chasing your dream cost a small fortune and I can fully understand why you went the cart direction rather than opening a BBQ joint.

            But that said

            You’ll throw away your investment no mater how big or small in a heart beat trying to compete with all the other BBQ joints, restaurants, bars, and fast food joints that are trying to get the same dollars your looking to put in your till if you don’t kick there ass in some manner.

            And I promise you won’t win the battle if your buying pulled pork and shipping it half way across the country. There has to be a good BBQ operation somewhere in a thirty-mile radius that has been in business for at least 5 or 6 years that you can buy P.P. from. And I’d guess at a substantial savings, but the saving grace is you’d get to taste it and look at their operation just by buying lunch.

            If you add liquid smoke to anything you serve I’m coming out there and kicking your ass.
            Anyone with even a little bit of knowledge about even decent smoked food would recognize that bitter taste of artificial smoke. Oh I know Alton Brown did an entire show on how it’s made and it’s real liquid smoke BUT it taste like fake snow compared to real snow. You have one-maybe two shots at every customer that eats your food. Give them a bad meal once and they shrug it off. But do it a second time and you’ll not likely see them again and worse yet they’ll tell all their friends. Just walk by the fake smoke isle in your grocery store and snicker, don’t let it or some food channel short cut suck you in.

            No what was next?

            Oh yes LOL

            Why would you want to Dr. up anything the Dr. doesn’t Doctor up anything LMAO Besides I think that’s a slur…….but I’m not sure.

            And then there was the question about sandwich size mine are right at ½ pound each, but that’s after sauce. To tell the truth I have never weighted one before sauce and the only reason I weighed one was my help didn’t understand how to stack meat on a bun and I had them each make a sandwich and I made one. Mine looked better and bigger but weighed less, because there is an art to staking P.P. or any lose meat sandwich. In fact I have one employee (Leo) that can make four ounces look like 8 ounces when he builds a sandwich, and if we are running out of anything at an event Leo can save the day and make an extra $100.00 when all the meat is gone. God Bless his soul, he is the best of the best.

            One final thought NEVER sell anything food wise that you aren’t more than proud to serve.

            Ok I’m going back to the kitchen now and stir my five gallons of gumbo I’m making for next week.
            Jack





             
            #6
              chewingthefat

              • Total Posts: 5268
              • Joined: 11/22/2007
              • Location: Emmitsburg, Md.
              • Roadfood Insider
              RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sun, 01/6/08 11:57 AM (permalink)
              Fatdaddy, if your saying that you can buy pulled pork @ $15.00 per 5 lb. bag, or $3.00 per lb., stay away from it, it has to be toxic.
              Your sandwiches should be 6 to 8 ozs., use kaiser rolls. Just my $.02
               
              #7
                kensandyeggo

                • Total Posts: 567
                • Joined: 6/3/2007
                • Location: Charlotte, NC
                RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sun, 01/6/08 3:37 PM (permalink)
                Having lived in CA for about 20 years, I would double-check with whatever Health dept. governs your cart. I don't see them approving beef sandwiches. Carts can't even do chili unless it's in individual packs in some areas. BUT.....some areas are more flexible than others, but check before you invest in the food and equipment to serve something that they won't let you.

                For my 2 cents worth, there are plenty of Vienna distributors in CA and we use their Italian beef and gravy (au jus) and are happy with the quality and taste. It comes the beef or au jus alone or a case with beef and au jus in it.
                 
                #8
                  fatdaddy

                  • Total Posts: 9
                  • Joined: 10/30/2007
                  • Location: Sacramento, CA
                  RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sun, 01/6/08 5:34 PM (permalink)
                  Dr. I suspected that would be your reaction and I must admit I feel the same way and by no means would I consider it to be competing with other BBQ joints... I am just looking for a little variety outside of a hot dog and working with what I can off a cart - Italian Beef would be the way I'd want to go... Just thinking outside the box and working with what I got.

                  As far as Veinna Distributors most are in So. Cal the two in my area are over 2 hrs away so it may make it difficult to pick up products. I'm going to check out the one in Vallejo.

                  Helth Dept. allows anything that is pre-packaged (buying pulled pork from a local won't qualify) so chilli and anything else in a package to be reheated will do.
                   
                  #9
                    ShellysDawgHouse

                    • Total Posts: 469
                    • Joined: 3/18/2007
                    • Location: parlin, NJ
                    RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sun, 01/6/08 7:32 PM (permalink)
                    okay so speaking of Italian beef, I tried it today. As a matter of fact i just took it out of the oven, so my question since i have NEVER eaten it in my life, What they heck am i looking for???? I have read alot and i can tell you this..... It is very spiced. (italian seasoning,oregano,pricked with lots of fresh garlic, took some advice from DR. and added a bit of tarragon, i used fresh basil and then i sliced up onion and i put some hot cherry pepper slices in there. So it is very well SPICED. Is this what i am looking for??? I won't slice it tonite but give me some more to go on. I have read alot of different things. when i eat it (tom. for dinner) crusty Italian bread and top it with hot cherry peppers or Gardiner??? Thanks guys.
                     
                    #10
                      MilwFoodlovers

                      • Total Posts: 2921
                      • Joined: 3/31/2001
                      • Location: Milwaukee, WI
                      RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sun, 01/6/08 8:14 PM (permalink)
                      Shelly, slice it as thin as you can and I think your ideas are perfect.
                       
                      #11
                        fatdaddy

                        • Total Posts: 9
                        • Joined: 10/30/2007
                        • Location: Sacramento, CA
                        RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sun, 01/6/08 8:49 PM (permalink)
                        Sounds delicious! What time should I arive for dinner?
                         
                        #12
                          MilwFoodlovers

                          • Total Posts: 2921
                          • Joined: 3/31/2001
                          • Location: Milwaukee, WI
                          RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Sun, 01/6/08 9:04 PM (permalink)
                          Shelly, I forgot to mention that I usually make a very garlicky, oregano laden au jus for dipping. If you want, since you don't have access to Gonnella Bakery's bread, I'd use a French-type bagette, add your gardinara, and dunk the entire sandwich in your sauce. It should be pretty messy.

                           
                          #13
                            ShellysDawgHouse

                            • Total Posts: 469
                            • Joined: 3/18/2007
                            • Location: parlin, NJ
                            RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Mon, 01/7/08 1:55 AM (permalink)
                            I will let you all know how it turned out. As for the garlic i put slits in the meat and added garlic slivers so i hope that is good enough. No i don't have access to that bread but i do have some good alternatives. I will post after dinner Monday night. and i will try and post pix. Thanks all.
                             
                            #14
                              ShellysDawgHouse

                              • Total Posts: 469
                              • Joined: 3/18/2007
                              • Location: parlin, NJ
                              RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Mon, 01/7/08 2:17 AM (permalink)
                              http://www.roadfood.com/Insider/photos/3882.jpg
                              Here is the "before" But i don't think i uploaded that properly.
                              I will post the finished product Monday nite.
                               
                              #15
                                ShellysDawgHouse

                                • Total Posts: 469
                                • Joined: 3/18/2007
                                • Location: parlin, NJ
                                RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Mon, 01/7/08 7:43 PM (permalink)
                                okay so for some reason i can't seem to get my photo here but, here's the thing.... The beef was good. Not great but good. I don't remember anyone saying anything about thickening the au jus at all. so i did not. (i felt it should have been tightened up just a touch) I liked the flavor of the beef but, i would season more next time. all and all, i would definetly like to try it again. And another question..... I have heard dip and not to dip but definetly wet. What is the correct way??? As i said i liked the flavor but i would make it more flavorful next time. I will try and add photo later. Not such a good one anyway.
                                 
                                #16
                                  DandyDog

                                  • Total Posts: 175
                                  • Joined: 7/28/2007
                                  • Location: Lake Placid, FL
                                  RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Wed, 01/9/08 7:23 PM (permalink)
                                  quote:
                                  Originally posted by ShellysDawgHouse

                                  okay so speaking of Italian beef, I tried it today. As a matter of fact i just took it out of the oven, so my question since i have NEVER eaten it in my life, What they heck am i looking for???? I have read alot and i can tell you this..... It is very spiced. (italian seasoning,oregano,pricked with lots of fresh garlic, took some advice from DR. and added a bit of tarragon, i used fresh basil and then i sliced up onion and i put some hot cherry pepper slices in there. So it is very well SPICED. Is this what i am looking for??? I won't slice it tonite but give me some more to go on. I have read alot of different things. when i eat it (tom. for dinner) crusty Italian bread and top it with hot cherry peppers or Gardiner??? Thanks guys.


                                  Shelley I have never had one either but would like to. My thought on this matter (and I could be wrong), is that it is a cross between a philly steak (w/o the cheese but spicey) and a french dip. If I'm wrong please correct me. I do have recipes that call for Gardiner which can give a punch. I do know that the bun is soppy but that is the thing that people like.
                                  One of these days I will experiment. I'm going to Chicago in a few months and plan on taste testing for myself.
                                   
                                  #17
                                    ShellysDawgHouse

                                    • Total Posts: 469
                                    • Joined: 3/18/2007
                                    • Location: parlin, NJ
                                    RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Wed, 01/9/08 8:07 PM (permalink)
                                    I used the gardiner and i made it soppy. It was the soppy i think i didn't like so much. I love to eat and i love food. but i don't really get into soppy so much. I would as i said in the past, spice it up a bit more but i think. (and i do mean think) i have the right idea. Let me know when you get back how the Chicago trip goes.
                                     
                                    #18
                                      kland01s

                                      • Total Posts: 2288
                                      • Joined: 3/14/2003
                                      • Location: Fox River Valley, IL
                                      RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Thu, 01/10/08 6:37 AM (permalink)
                                      I'm in the Chicago area and to me, a Italian Beef has to be wet even if it drips down your arm. It's from the meat juice, I prefer the sport peppers which do not add much juice. I think you need to come to Chicago and try the real thing at several places before you try to pass something off as being an Italian beef.
                                       
                                      #19
                                        ShellysDawgHouse

                                        • Total Posts: 469
                                        • Joined: 3/18/2007
                                        • Location: parlin, NJ
                                        RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Thu, 01/10/08 7:40 AM (permalink)
                                        I would love to but, i can't so if i were to "pass" something off as i would use maybe the words Italian "style" beef sandwich or Chicago "style" Italian beef. I have read alot of different recipes and all seem to be pretty similiar and i think once you decide which one to use, it would be a "personal" preference as to which taste best. I just wanted basically to know if they needed to be dunked.. I have not decided to sell one yet. I think i will do more research. Thanks.
                                         
                                        #20
                                          signman

                                          • Total Posts: 1739
                                          • Joined: 10/23/2000
                                          • Location: Baltimore, MD
                                          RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Thu, 01/10/08 10:01 PM (permalink)
                                          Shelly, will you be working your cart on Monday. Good chance I will be stopping by. Weather forecast is lousy though.
                                           
                                          #21
                                            kensandyeggo

                                            • Total Posts: 567
                                            • Joined: 6/3/2007
                                            • Location: Charlotte, NC
                                            RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Thu, 01/10/08 10:14 PM (permalink)
                                            I would guess that the majority, if not nearly all of the hot dog joints in Chicago do not prepare their own beef. Why do you think they are slinging hot dogs and not running a French cuisine restaurant with custom made pastries? To me, a Subway menu is too complicated.

                                            As CSD has said numerous times, what do people expect when they see a hot dog cart? HOTDOGS!! K.I.S.S. He's been very successful and sells one dog product and drinks.....not even chips. I think he's onto something. Beef sandwich also takes a lot more time to prepare than a dog. The au jus should be watery. We dip each end of the bread (ends trimmed off) in the au jus about a couple inches, then ladle on more after the beef is in the bun. The juice should drip at least down to your elbows as previously stated. We have a brick and mortar Vienna joint, but on a cart, I'd keep it simple and just push a great-tasting dog.

                                            We have Chicago-Style in our name, but that doesn't mean diddley outside of Chicago. You have to go with local tradition, as if California has any tradition. Find out where most of the people in your area are from and go with that. If they're all from New York, all you need is brown mustard and sauerkraut and a pan of hot water. Here in Charlotte, we sell more dogs with chili and slaw than anything else.

                                            Distributors deliver, although most will have a minimum order. If this is a problem, make friends with your nearest restaurant that uses the same distributor and have them drop off your order there and then go pick it up. I do this all the time with my secondary distributor, as I usually don't meet the minimum with my non-Vienna distributor.

                                            I myself don't see working a cart all day and then coming home and preparing and cooking beef, which also would be illegal unless you do it in an inspected kitchen. Shoot.....throw the dogs in the water, sling em on a bun, count your money, go home and pop a beer and watch South Park.

                                             
                                            #22
                                              Rick F.

                                              • Total Posts: 1736
                                              • Joined: 8/16/2002
                                              • Location: Natchitoches, LA
                                              RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Thu, 01/10/08 10:37 PM (permalink)
                                              MilwFoodlovers's 2nd photo looks about the way I remember IB sandwiches looking from my time in the Chi area. I'm also with ShellysDawgHouse on "soppy," but seem to remember that the assemblers took the split buns, turned them cut side down, and kind of pressed them into the juice. That way the bread was reasonably juicy; then the meat was added and, on request, more juice spooned over the assembled sandwich until it was as soppy as you wanted it. My own preference was the "combo," with a length of Italian sausage enfolded in the beef. Goddlemighty, I'm making myself hungry!
                                               
                                              #23
                                                chicagostyledog

                                                • Total Posts: 2940
                                                • Joined: 9/10/2003
                                                • Location: Hot Dog University Chicago, IL
                                                RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Fri, 01/11/08 12:09 AM (permalink)
                                                I ate this for lunch at Johnnie's in Elmwood Park, IL this afternoon.



                                                Here's an informative video about Italian beef: http://www.wttw.com/main.taf?p=1,37 Go to: Preview Jeoffrey's visit to Al's #1

                                                Italian beef is a regional food that originated in the city of Chicago. It's considered a "system," similar to a Chicago style hot dog. It's a thinly sliced, roast round of beef simmered in a spicy stock. The stock is flavored with garlic, oregano, paprika, and other secret ingredients. The sandwich is served on a French roll that has the texture and quality that consistently holds up to the beef drippings from peppers and gravies. The bread is piled high with beef and the sandwich is finished with a garnish of hot or sweet peppers. The sweet peppers are green bells and the hot are sport peppers used on Chicago style hot dogs. The best version of hot peppers is a scortching relish called giardiniera, which is a hot garden mix of chopped sport peppers, carrot rounds, celery chunks, and capers. Giardiniera is steeped in olive oil which may be further flavored with red pepper flakes. Giardiniera is available hot or mild. Sandwiches dipped in the stock aka gravy are "soaked." Real Chicago Italian beef stands aren't like hot dog stands; they're not fun, they're serious and strictly business. Manga!

                                                CSD PhD Professor of Hot Dogs with an MA in Italian Beef
                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  ShellysDawgHouse

                                                  • Total Posts: 469
                                                  • Joined: 3/18/2007
                                                  • Location: parlin, NJ
                                                  RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Fri, 01/11/08 1:21 AM (permalink)
                                                  signman, Weather permitting. YEs.
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    fatdaddy

                                                    • Total Posts: 9
                                                    • Joined: 10/30/2007
                                                    • Location: Sacramento, CA
                                                    RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Fri, 01/11/08 1:02 PM (permalink)
                                                    Great information guys!

                                                    Chi-style that is one good lookin sandwich!

                                                    Still gonna try and work the Italian beef on to the cart... testing the Sacramento
                                                    market and looking to see what sells and then will modify my menu accordingly.

                                                    Who knows what these Californians like may have to go with a "Vegan Dog"....!

                                                    Yes, that was a joke!
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      Mello Yello

                                                      • Total Posts: 6
                                                      • Joined: 3/1/2006
                                                      • Location: El Dorado Hills, CA
                                                      RE: Considering Italian Beef Sandwiches Wed, 06/25/08 2:48 AM (permalink)
                                                      quote:
                                                      Originally posted by fatdaddy

                                                      Hey All,

                                                      I'm in Northern Ca (Sacramento) and I finally got my cart!

                                                      Going with a Chicago theme - Chicago Dog's, Maxwell Polish, Italian Beef (???) and yes I'll still have Sabbret Red Onion Sauce, NY Style Dog and maybe pretzels.

                                                      Was wondering where I could get Italian Beef or a substitute in the CA area or Online, although shipping costs cut way into the profit margin? I just want the beef I've seen kits all over the place but offering the sandwiches at $4.50 and ordering a kit doesn't make sense - $0.20 $0.30 a sandwhich.

                                                      Can't make it myself... Must be prepackaged and reheated....

                                                      Also any ideas on where to order Poppyseed Buns????


                                                      Hey fatdaddy, I'm in Sacramento. Where are you setup for business? Any luck finding the beef?
                                                       
                                                      #27
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