Corned Beef/Pastrami: Hand vs. Machine Sliced

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MiamiDon
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/08 16:41:15 (permalink)
The Travelin Man

MiamiDon

By the way, I found this interesgint tidbit in a New Times review:

Mo has recently introduced a new line of cold cuts, the same brand served at New York's renowned Carnegie Deli.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2002-10-17/dining/lox-stock-bagel


That article was written in 2002.  I was there more recently than that - it is possible that they have changed again - perhaps realizing that they could not make any money selling Carnegie pastrami at Miami prices?? 

I did not have their pastrami, but their corned beef is not something that I would ever link with the famed NYC delis.



TT:  Sure, I can believe that.  I think that I remember a thread or story somewhere about an on-again, off-again Carnegie export.  Maybe it was there.  I figured that you guys would tell me "no way."
 
ellen4641:  What should I order?
 
It's funny, but I heard an ad for Moe's on the radio for the first time today.  Some guy was having a conversation with a friend and mentioned "the wonderful scrambled eggs and salami" or something like that.
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ellen4641
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/09 16:43:44 (permalink)
hi Miami Don,
most likely their brisket and turkey are made right there...
you may want to do up a combo sandwich...
or an open faced hot sandwich with gravy...

Hey, can you ask the Moe's food server and/or deli manage just what brand pastrami they are using nowadays?
I'm betting they say National .....

often times though,  places will try to skirt around the question by saying "We do our own",  and when I further ask "Do you actually make it homemade right here; do you spice it and CURE it right here?",  THEN I get more to the truth of the matter...

maybe you'll go for that "scrambled eggs and salami"...., Don....
see what you're in the mood for...
I just would'nt personally get a straight pastrami or corned beef there, but you may want to get it along with other meats in a combo sandwich...
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ellen4641
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/09 21:18:35 (permalink)
UPDATE : I just called Moe's, and the gal on the phone said  they use "National Brand" deli  for their pastrami.
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MiamiDon
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/10 07:12:03 (permalink)

Is that the brand that Carnegie uses? 
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ellen4641
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/10 10:05:43 (permalink)
MiamiDon

Is that the brand that Carnegie uses? 

 
I went on the Carnegie deli website just now (www.carnegiedeli.com)
"we bake, smoke, cure our own ", etc...
They make it at their plant in Carlstadt, NJ, just across the river...
(so it's homemade, and trucked over the Hudson River)
So it would'nt be National Brand; I guess "homemade" means no brand..
 
And I even just called up the legendary Carnegie to ask "Do you use National Brand pastrami, or do you make your own?".... she said "We make our own"


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mhill95
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/10 10:40:55 (permalink)
Maybe this has already been covered:
The Starkman Family of Miami's Epicure Markets also own National Deli Brands among their other Deli Ventures. TooJay's, a Florida Deli Giant also use the National Brand at all their Deli's.

Mike
post edited by mhill95 - 2009/05/10 10:43:21
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GB944
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/10 18:57:31 (permalink)
The New York State National Brand, made in Albany, NY, is said to be the brand that Katz Deli uses.
post edited by GB944 - 2009/05/11 07:35:22
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Baah Ben
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/10 23:46:26 (permalink)
The Carnegie actually use to corn their own briskets upstairs at their restaurant.  That's when Harold was their General Manager. 

I have no idea where Harold gets his pastrami.  He may have a deal with the Carnegie, but I felt his pastrami was not exactly the same as the one I've had at the Carnegie..Both terrific, incidently. 


Is it possible that the plant in Carlstadt only provides pastrami and corned beef for itself?  I'd love to see that plant..Smoking navels, corning briskets...Terrific stuff.  Anyone ever even seen the plant from the outside?

Katz says they do their pastrami on site.   
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GB944
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/11 07:32:57 (permalink)
Baah Ben -
Katz says they do their pastrami on site.   


Hi, Ben,

I don't want to seem argumentative, but I am curious as to the source of that statement. Their website makes no mention, and I am sure that they would be the first to make that claim.
post edited by GB944 - 2009/05/11 07:34:33
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Baah Ben
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/11 16:02:26 (permalink)
I asked the manager when I saw them taking a big pan of pastramis out from the back of the kitchen the last time I was there.  It caught my eye and so I asked.

GB - You are not being argumentative.  I am just reporting what I was told by the manager.  A guy whose picture appeared in one of the Katz photos a while back.

To get the real story from any of these guys is not the easiest thing in the world.  They all keep their sources pretty quiet.  The Carlstadt plant for Carnegie is well known, but I've never seen it.  I'd love to.  

The Carnegie corning their briskets upstairs was something my partner personally saw when Harold was the GM there back in the 80's.  I have no idea if they still are doing that.  Maybe they do that in Carlstadt, too?

I reported what I was told by the Manager at Katz.
No different than when you ask some of them who makes their hot dogs and they say they are made special for them.  

I called up Irving's in Livingston six months ago and asked them if they roasted their own turkeys on the premises because I was considering going there with my wife.  Instead I went to Harold's.  

My wife only eats turkey in a deli and the good ones roast their own.  The woman said that their turkey was "made especially for them?" Thank you very much.

Incidently, I'd love to watch the process of making pastrami.  I know a lot of cracked black pepper is applied to the surface of what is called the navel cut of meat.  So how do they get their hands on that much cracked black pepper?  Do they grind it themselves?  Can you get bags of coarse ground black pepper?  I have no idea. 

I'd think a lot of kosher salt is also used.  Perhaps the navels are brined first, then the cracked black pepper is applied and then smoked?  I'll see if Katz or someone else has revealed the process.....
post edited by Baah Ben - 2009/05/11 16:05:17
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ann peeples
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/11 17:03:10 (permalink)
Baah Ben- I know food services sell bulk spices-so i would assume cracked pepper and kosher salt are available that way.In my deli, I could make homemade turkey( yes, a whole turkey) and on St.Pats day, homemade corned beef and cabbage.So I am sure( and I agree with you) that is entirely possible that some of these places cook their own pastrami and corned beef...
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ellen4641
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/11 17:51:05 (permalink)
More chances of finding homemade corned beef, compared to homemade pastrami....   (due to all the extra curing , pickling, smoking that is involved with the pastrami)

Unfortunately , due to time and labor costs, at most delis in this country NEITHER one is homemade...
but yet I keep searching for these homemade pastrami " joints !
not easy to find , but it sure is rewarding to come across one!  I consider it a DELIcacy !

One will find much more often that the brisket and turkey is homemade, however....
due to easier prep. involved
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acer2x
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/20 22:13:23 (permalink)
I was in Cherry Hill, NJ today and stopped in the original Kibitz Room. I ordered some hot pastrami to go and asked if they hand sliced or machine sliced. The counterman said machine so I asked if he could slice it  thick and he said no problem. It turned out looking like the pastrami from Carnegie as pictured above. When I got home, it was still warm and I made a sandwich using their rye bread- very good by the way- and A&H Deli mustard. The pastrami was very good- a little spicy and perhaps a little sweet too. The thicker slice definitely adds to the taste IMO as opposed to the usual thin machine sliced stuff in the Philly area.
post edited by acer2x - 2009/05/21 23:59:27
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Freddies Mommy
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Re:NYC Roadfood 2009/05/26 14:28:01 (permalink)
My vote is for Handsliced.  I like the texture that you have to bite into it as opposed to the meat becoming britle and thick. 
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