Dinner Music?

Do any of you play background music on your trucks? Since my truck is going to have a Caribbean theme I'm planning on using Trop-Rock (aka Jimmy Buffett style "Island Music") and I've been trying to decide whether to play just any Trop-Rock music or Trop-Rock songs specifically about food (you'd be surprised how many there are). What do you think?

Though its unlikely you'd actually get caught (or reported) for failing to do this, do keep in mind that if you are going to play any music through speakers that anyone other than you can hear, you are technically required to register with BMI or ASCAP for a public performance license. If you do get caught playing music without one, the fines run into the thousands of dollars.

Alternately, there are many companies out there that will sell you cds of royalty-free music, but by and large that music sucks.

Years ago I ran a business, and I had music set up to play through the phone system when I put callers on hold. One day, a guy that works for BMI called with a computer problem (my company did computer support), he got put on hold, heard the music, apparently checked to see if I had a license, and Lo and behold the next day a demand letter came by overnight mail. Not a happy day that day.

So, anyway... the moral of the story? Well, there's two really. One is that everybody's gunning for the little guy. And the other one is, I won't be playing any music at my truck.

Geeze, thanks Stubby! I didn't even think about that. You probably helped me dodge a bullet!

The good news is that if you're in a location where you think the music will really help you attract customers (for example, lots of foot-traffic in a tourist area), the license isnt outrageously expensive, probably only a couple hundred bucks a year. Not worth it for me in my location, but I can definitely see where in the right situation it'd be cheap advertising. So if the beach music is a major part of your game-plan, look into getting the license. It might be worth it.

I will do that. Running a Caribbean themed truck in southern Florida the music will be a good draw.

bmi and ascap are bottom feeders.....
being in and out of the bar/live music biz for 10-12 years im speaking from experience...
tell them to kiss your butt(but dont be that nice about it) it takes more red tape then the gov for them to strong arm the small guy.....
when you get one of those demand letters, they are hoping for the "easy target", anything more then a "yes sir, heres your check" and they back burner you due to the difficulties they have "busting" you......
worst case scenario, ya change the music your playing, and the bottom feeders go away....

main thing is.....your not selling tickets to hear the music, so they really dont have a case that would hold up in court to begin with.....they wont bother you, play what you want......

Cool. Thanks.

BackAlleyBurger


bmi and ascap are bottom feeders.....
being in and out of the bar/live music biz for 10-12 years im speaking from experience...
tell them to kiss your butt(but dont be that nice about it) it takes more red tape then the gov for them to strong arm the small guy.....
when you get one of those demand letters, they are hoping for the "easy target", anything more then a "yes sir, heres your check" and they back burner you due to the difficulties they have "busting" you......
worst case scenario, ya change the music your playing, and the bottom feeders go away....

Bottom feeders? Is it your position that the people who write the words and music should not be paid for their work? Are you going to give away your hot dogs?

the people who write and sing get very little from what they charge, very little... so yea, i have a problem with someone sitting behind a desk making millions a year just so little johnny and his cousin can sing a metallica cover song in my bar on open mic mondays

you show support to the artist by buying concert tickets

Michael Hoffman

BackAlleyBurger


bmi and ascap are bottom feeders.....
being in and out of the bar/live music biz for 10-12 years im speaking from experience...
tell them to kiss your butt(but dont be that nice about it) it takes more red tape then the gov for them to strong arm the small guy.....
when you get one of those demand letters, they are hoping for the "easy target", anything more then a "yes sir, heres your check" and they back burner you due to the difficulties they have "busting" you......
worst case scenario, ya change the music your playing, and the bottom feeders go away....

Bottom feeders? Is it your position that the people who write the words and music should not be paid for their work? Are you going to give away your hot dogs?

 
and yes....you pay me 1500 a year license fee and you can come and have all the hot dogs you want, up to 2 a day
edit: but remember to wear the "back alley burgers" t shirt when you do........
sounds dumb huh ??..... same thing they are doing.....
 
do you pay your hot dog supplier a commission for every single hot dog you sell ?? its the same thing with music..... they write it, they sing it, they sell it (albums/concerts) why are they so special they should keep getting paid year after year for something they did 10 years ago????? 

BackAlleyBurger


you show support to the artist by buying concert tickets

ASCAP and BMI are not involved with the performers. They represent the composers, lyricists and publishers.

BackAlleyBurger

Michael Hoffman

BackAlleyBurger


bmi and ascap are bottom feeders.....
being in and out of the bar/live music biz for 10-12 years im speaking from experience...
tell them to kiss your butt(but dont be that nice about it) it takes more red tape then the gov for them to strong arm the small guy.....
when you get one of those demand letters, they are hoping for the "easy target", anything more then a "yes sir, heres your check" and they back burner you due to the difficulties they have "busting" you......
worst case scenario, ya change the music your playing, and the bottom feeders go away....

Bottom feeders? Is it your position that the people who write the words and music should not be paid for their work? Are you going to give away your hot dogs?

and yes....you pay me 1500 a year license fee and you can come and have all the hot dogs you want, up to 2 a day
edit: but remember to wear the "back alley burgers" t shirt when you do........
sounds dumb huh ??..... same thing they are doing.....

do you pay your hot dog supplier a commission for every single hot dog you sell ?? its the same thing with music..... they write it, they sing it, they sell it (albums/concerts) why are they so special they should keep getting paid year after year for something they did 10 years ago????? 

Your understanding of this subject is severely limited. The song writers should get paid just as you get paid. You are making money from their work. Work they own. You want to use my copyrighted work to make a profit you have to pay me for it. You use it without paying me and I'll sue you. And I'll win.

as soon as i start selling tickets you may have a case.....
song writers do get paid...when the song sells, every one gets paid as soon as the song sells...... if when the album goes gold/platinum etc... everyone gets paid big time!!!!
does a painting artist get royalties every time someone goes into a gallery and looks at his painting????.... does he even get a commission when one party sells to another??? no, so why should singers, composers get it?
just once i would like for you to answer a question i ask, in the context it was asked, and not just add to your list of mouth spouts.....
 
plain and simply.... why should a singer/whoever get paid 10-15-20 years later because someone listened to a song he sang/wrote/composed.... why isnt it a case of you sang it/wrote it/sold it.... over and done, come up with something new

oohh and just my little added 2 cents....
sue me all you want.... there are millions upon millions of people living in the US... you gotta find me number one, and number two, you have to prove i made a profit.....
thats why bmi and the other two are bottom feeders, because they cant prove anything unless you were selling tickets for a musical performance..... playing jimmy buffet at your hot dog cart doesn't prove a thing outside that you may be a parrot head......

 The song writers should get paid just as you get paid. You are making money from their work. 
 
your absolutely right.... im going to copyright my hot dogs, and every time you burp for the next 24 hours after eating one you owe me a quarter.....
 
in fact, my name "back alley burgers" is copy righted....... so you need to go back and count the times you typed it/said it outloud/posted in one of my threads..... that will a quarter each time thank you very much
 
sounds pretty stupid when you put it like that huh ?..... why should it sound any better for music ?
 
and one last time.... PROVE I MADE A PROFIT..... the burden is on you 

maybe my side of this argument will hit home if i use this example.....
you were a reporter right ? back in the day......
do you, or who ever you worked for get a royalty every time someone goes to the library and microphises(?) an old article you wrote, or a picture you took...
i mean, its your work, you created it, then you sold it.... just wondering

Back Alley Burger... you're missing something in this whole equation. The fact is, very rarely does a songwriter write a song and then sell it to a performer for a boatload of money. In point of fact, songwriter actually have very little or no control over the songs they write. Most of the time, for the vast majority of songwriters, the ONLY money they make on their songs are royalties that are paid when those songs are performed, recorded, or played on the radio or television.

Many years ago, my father had a song he wrote recorded by a small local band. That band never went anywhere, but about five years ago my father started getting annual checks from BMI. Turns out that my father's song is being used on the closing credits for a small-market tv show somewhere. He still has no idea what the tv show is or where it is broadcast, bit he gets about $35 a year in royalties. It is the only money he's ever made writing songs.

Do you think it would have been fair to my father if that tv producer had taken the standpoint that the writer of that song must have made money when he "sold the rights" to the band who recorded it and therefore there was no reason to report the use of the song to BMI?

Unless a songwriter is a major player in the industry, they do not get paid any significant amount when a song is recorded. They only get paid when the song is played or performed. In other words, for most songwriter, those license fees that are required for someone to sing at your bar are in fact the only way these songwriter have to make a living.

I'm not saying that the system is right or fair... I'm just saying that the system is what it is, and stealing someone else's work because you think its unfair to you is wrong, and not fair to them.

I write for a living. It is illegal to for anyone to make money by photocopying, or allowing anyone to photocopy, my work without paying me. If a library has my work it has paid for it. But it cannot charge someone to make a copy without paying me. A website cannot post anything of mine without paying me, unless it has written permission from me. (Which, by the way, is why I have frequently pointed this out on Roadfood when people post entire copyrighted articles. In cases where that is done, it is the website that is liable for the damages.)

@stubby77.... thank you for answering that like you did, now i have a little better understanding of how that works...... but if i am not making money by using it, how is it justified that i owe someone for using it?
 
@micheal.... its my understanding that unless you include a "not for any use without written permission" that you can "copy" anything you find if your just using it to share information(something about the "fair information act")....
because if not, the powers that are could copyright(or purchase those rights) every single piece of educational material there is, and we the common man would be kept stupid and in the dark(economic slavery i think its called)
 
thats why you dont get a check from the library every time they charge someone 10 cents to make a copy of something, they aren't charging for your work, they are charging for the use of the copier..
 
same thing i was saying before..... you can play any music you want to, if you are not charging people to specifically listen to the song, then you have done nothing wrong....
the case from earlier about the phone hold song, that was a bottom feeder tactic to get money out of them.... they could have told BMI to pack sand and i strongly believe that would have been the end of it....
 
technically, by the strict letter definition of the law, it may very well be illegal for you to throw a jimmy buffet CD into the boom box you have at your hot dog stand, but its a grey area at best the way i see it, its a law that has no benefit to humanity, its only reason for existence is the corporate greed thats so rampant in this country.... point in question, stubbys dad, he gets 35 bucks a year, i wonder how much BMI is getting? i bet you a dollar to a dime its a whole helluva lot more then 35 bucks......in fact, i bet you its closer to 100 times that amount, if not 1000 times that amount....... so you tell me, who is really screwing stubbys dad
 
im not some corporate fat cat making a living off someone elses back..... im just a poor slob that wants to hear some good music.....

>@micheal.... its my understanding that unless you include a "not for any use without written permission" that you can "copy" anything you find if your just using it to share information(something about the "fair information act").... <
 
Your understanding is incorrect. There is no requirement to include such a phrase to cover copyrighted material.

well, the fair information act say i can copy stuff and share it, as long as i give credit to the 'owner" and am not making money off of it
so i will place any CD cases of music i am listening to in the window.... good enough for me...
 
personally, im going to play whatever i feel like listening to thats appropriate for the location i am at, and not give it a second thought

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

•  
  1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
  2. The nature of the copyrighted work
  3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
  4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work

number 1- im using music to help drown out the sound of my generator, and its boring as hell, i wanna listen to some music
number two-well, its music, a book wouldnt help drown out much noise now would it
number three-most probably not the whole thing, most cd's have at least a few crappy songs on them....
number four- if anything i am giving them free advertisement to bring in new customers..... no harm, no foul.... no economic stress to anyone, other then me for buying the cd....
 
see, no case, BMI can go pack sand

Those arguments wouldn't even be fodder for a Three Stooges film, ket alone presented in a court of law. But you go ahead. One can't help wondering, though, if a person is so willing to violate copyright law how willing that person might be to violate other laws.
 

makes me wonder how sad and miserable you are that you cant help but interject your underlying snobbery every chance you get....
 
not to mention the fact you seem more then willing to lay down and let "the man" make all the rules....
not only that, but you seem to be an ardent supporter of such big government mindsets....
 
do you want me to send mr buffet a nickle every time someone pulls up next to me on the road while im jamming cheeseburgers in paradise ???
would that help you sleep better at night? would you feel like youve given a service to humanity for that ??
 
if i buy a cd, im going to play it any place i want to, its mine, i paid for it..... if some corporate fat cat wants to make a stink about fine.... i will deal with them..... and until someone who is more important then you tells me otherwise, i will continue to do .....
i dont feel bad, i dont feel like im cheating anyone, and if that makes me a criminal in your mind as you so plainly insinuated earlier then so be......i could care less about you, or bmi

The kids really hate it when mom & dad fight! And I dont want to hear about who started it either!

lmao !
 

  You can play a radio station and be legal and it won't cost you anything.  You can get a commercial option from XM/Sirrus for a small fee and play anything on their broadcasts.
  Backstreet,
  Relax fella, you don't need to antagonize everyone on this forum!  Take a double dose of chill pill, you're among friends and everybody loves you, just give em a chance!

Put the CD in a boombox and TURN IT DOWN! Not everyone WANTS to hear "your" music. Just a little background stuff is okay. Now if I could just find that moron who lives close to the RV park... Fool plays his "thumpy-thump-thump" music 24/7. Both in his home and in his car. I have times when the RV just vibrates from the bass. Makes me wish I still had my big speakers and my copy of  Strauss' "Also Sprach Zarathustra" (most of you would would recognize it from Kubrick's movie "2001: A Space Odyssey"). Wonderful method of pointing out to someone that not everyone wants to hear "their" music cranked up to the max the speakers can handle. Has worked many times in the past for me. I wouldn't eat at a place that plays rap (I don't like rap) or exceptionally loud music of any kind. There are folks who have the same feeling about country, Southern Rock, Reggae or (heaven help the poor souls) Jimmy Buffet. If you are playing for your own "personal use" even in the food cart (not thru loud speakers), then I don't see a problem. Unless you can't help but dance to "Nautical Wheelers" (there's just something about 3/4 time... ).