Don’t Fear Big Beer

Page: 12 > Showing page 1 of 2
Author
GordonW
Double Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 924
  • Joined: 2003/11/13 13:09:00
  • Location: Chapel Hill, NC
  • Status: offline
2007/10/19 12:16:47 (permalink)

Don’t Fear Big Beer

"And the people who once thought the craft brewing movement was a fad can now see it for what it really is — a welcome return to normality."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/19/opinion/19oliver.html?ref=opinion
#1

32 Replies Related Threads

    desertdog
    Double Chili Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 1946
    • Joined: 2006/05/24 19:03:00
    • Location: Scottsdale, AZ
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/20 09:53:51 (permalink)

    Living in Germany for a number of years, I dreaded the thought of what beer awaited me when I came back to the states in "97. Imagine my surprise to find Microbreweries everywhere.

    I am a member of the Arizona Society of Homebrewers. I don't do a lot of homebrewing, but it puts me in touch with others who know and care about the way beer is made, and we have quite a few Brewmasters from the local Breweries who are members. One can really learn a lot about an art that nearly died in this country.



    DD

    #2
    Davydd
    Sirloin
    • Total Posts : 6346
    • Joined: 2005/04/24 12:15:00
    • Location: Tonka Bay, MN
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/20 11:40:40 (permalink)
    The Miller Coors merger is meaningless to me. I don't buy their beers and they are not a threat to craft brewers. I have just one nitpick with the opinion by the writer. You probably have to go farther back than just before prohibition in the United States. I think the brewers started substituting corn and rice and blandizing American beers in the 1870's.

    I home brewed enthusiastically a bit about 7 years ago. I have all my equipment mothballed but am getting tempted to go at it again. I even had labels.


    #3
    seafarer john
    Filet Mignon
    • Total Posts : 3481
    • Joined: 2003/03/24 18:58:00
    • Location: New Paltz, NY
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/20 11:43:08 (permalink)
    I'm not a ibg beer drinker, but when we travel I always seek ot the local beer being offered in the restaurants we visit. It is depressing when i hear from the waitress, "Bud,Bud Lite, Michelob,Coors, and Miller"... and it is a pleasure when something local is offered and it turns out to be somewhat unique and tastes good.

    Cheers, John
    #4
    jesskidden
    Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 152
    • Joined: 2005/07/25 06:15:00
    • Location: Middlesex-Monmouth-M, NJ
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 07:07:05 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Davydd

    The Miller Coors merger is meaningless to me. I don't buy their beers and they are not a threat to craft brewers.



    One of the reasons SABMiller and MolsonCoors gave for merging their US operations is to save money on production, shipping and distribution. Part of the way they hope to save on distribution, one suspects, will be to persuade/force local competing Miller and Coors distributors to merge or have one buy out the smaller one.

    State laws vary (some are very "distributor friendly", which, oddly isn't really good for small breweries, either) but fewer distributors with more very popular brands *might* mean less craft beer is going to be distributed in some areas. (Why bother selling some craft beer by the case, when you're selling Coors Light and Miller Lite by the pallet?)


    The "3 tier" beer distribution system that's the legal standard in the US with some variations, is the least "consumer friendly" aspect of beer in the US. Some states allow "self-distribution" but that's an expensive undertaking for most small brewers (and also limits distribution dramatically). Brooklyn Brewery tried it for a time, and it almost brought them down IIRC (based on the book BEER SCHOOL by the co-founders).
    #5
    Davydd
    Sirloin
    • Total Posts : 6346
    • Joined: 2005/04/24 12:15:00
    • Location: Tonka Bay, MN
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 10:39:14 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by jesskidden

    State laws vary (some are very "distributor friendly", which, oddly isn't really good for small breweries, either) but fewer distributors with more very popular brands *might* mean less craft beer is going to be distributed in some areas. (Why bother selling some craft beer by the case, when you're selling Coors Light and Miller Lite by the pallet?)


    The "3 tier" beer distribution system that's the legal standard in the US with some variations, is the least "consumer friendly" aspect of beer in the US. Some states allow "self-distribution" but that's an expensive undertaking for most small brewers (and also limits distribution dramatically). Brooklyn Brewery tried it for a time, and it almost brought them down IIRC (based on the book BEER SCHOOL by the co-founders).


    Can one deduce from these laws that there are more beer friendly, i.e. craft brew friendly, states in which to live if there are variations?
    #6
    MilwFoodlovers
    Filet Mignon
    • Total Posts : 3144
    • Joined: 2001/03/31 23:43:00
    • Location: Milwaukee, WI
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 11:05:56 (permalink)
    Some of our Wisconsin craft brewers were quoted as being somewhat worried for that very reason.
    #7
    jesskidden
    Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 152
    • Joined: 2005/07/25 06:15:00
    • Location: Middlesex-Monmouth-M, NJ
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 11:10:36 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Davydd

    quote:
    Originally posted by jesskidden

    State laws vary (some are very "distributor friendly", which, oddly isn't really good for small breweries, either) but fewer distributors with more very popular brands *might* mean less craft beer is going to be distributed in some areas. (Why bother selling some craft beer by the case, when you're selling Coors Light and Miller Lite by the pallet?)


    The "3 tier" beer distribution system that's the legal standard in the US with some variations, is the least "consumer friendly" aspect of beer in the US. Some states allow "self-distribution" but that's an expensive undertaking for most small brewers (and also limits distribution dramatically). Brooklyn Brewery tried it for a time, and it almost brought them down IIRC (based on the book BEER SCHOOL by the co-founders).


    Can one deduce from these laws that there are more beer friendly, i.e. craft brew friendly, states in which to live if there are variations?


    Well, I think it's fair to speculate that alcohol beverage control laws in general do have an effect on beer distribution and brewing on a state by state basis. New Jersey (my home state), tho' it has a great brewing heritage, is way behind in craft brewing. It was late to legalize brewpubs and the law makes a distinction between microbreweries and brewpubs, so it's either one or the other. In addition, liquor licenses are VERY expensive. OTOH, being an affluent state, we always were a prime market for more expensive imported beer and that's continued with out of state craft beers. (It probably also helps to me small and heavily populated, making distribution within state cheap).

    Pennsylvania, on the other hand, is known for many restrictive beer laws, primarily it's "case law" in which most beer is sold on the retail level at "distributors" and can only be purchased by the case. Six packs and singles can be sold at bars or "bottle shops" (which are still relatively rare) but they are restricted to selling 2 six packs or LESS and beer is usually very expensive, comparitively. BUT, those laws (in part) kept the PA. local brewing industry very active (when I started paying attention to beer, PA alone had something like 20% of all the licensed breweries in the country- far more independent brewers than any other state.). That's continued on with a very active craft beer scene, even tho', with their higher prices, craft brewers don't benefit as much from the "case laws".

    And, as one would expect, beer marketing is very different in states that allow supermarket/convenience store/gas station sales, as opposed to "liquor store" only sales.
    #8
    desertdog
    Double Chili Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 1946
    • Joined: 2006/05/24 19:03:00
    • Location: Scottsdale, AZ
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 12:02:28 (permalink)
    quote:

    And, as one would expect, beer marketing is very in states that allow supermarket/convenience store/gas station sales, as opposed to "liquor store" only sales.


    Are there still states that require Liquor Store only sales?

    Surely not the old State Run stores where you go in to a counter and tell the person what you want and they go back to get it for you.....has to be in a brown paper bag......closed on Sundays...

    DD

    #9
    Farmallcub
    Hamburger
    • Total Posts : 55
    • Joined: 2004/11/16 04:44:00
    • Location: Springfield, TN
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 12:12:32 (permalink)
    Tennessee still has liquor only stores. You must go to a quick sack or grocery to get beer. The liquor stores can only sell liquor and wine, no beer, no cork screw, candy, soda pop, or mixers. Thay are closed on Sundays and Holidays.
    #10
    Davydd
    Sirloin
    • Total Posts : 6346
    • Joined: 2005/04/24 12:15:00
    • Location: Tonka Bay, MN
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 13:00:56 (permalink)
    Minnesota only allows beer, wine and liquor in off-sale liquor stores open until 8 PM Monday through Thursday, 10 PM Friday and Saturday and closed Sundays. Fortunately there are plenty of them around. Within 2 miles of my house in the exurbs of Lake Minnetonka I have two chain liquor stores, two independent specialty liquor stores and one municipal city owned liquor store. All have a different focus. One chain is a discount oriented store and the other chain is wine focused. One of the independents is into mostly quality wines and craft beers. Grocery stores can't sell beer or wine. One local grocery store does but the sales are in a separate door enclosed room with separate outside access and with separate cash registers. You can't run through it with a grocery cart and conveniently ring up with your groceries. It has to be a separate transaction.

    I'm happy with my selections from Leinenkugel's, Summit, James Page, Surly and August Schell locally. Amongst them I get my beer satisfaction. We also have Bell's from Michigan in abundance and many of the other craft brews around the country. I don't need them all. Since I like to travel a lot I would rather reserve the others for travel and not home consumption.
    #11
    jesskidden
    Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 152
    • Joined: 2005/07/25 06:15:00
    • Location: Middlesex-Monmouth-M, NJ
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 13:06:01 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by desertdog

    quote:

    And, as one would expect, beer marketing is very in states that allow supermarket/convenience store/gas station sales, as opposed to "liquor store" only sales.


    Are there still states that require Liquor Store only sales?




    You mean for beer, or alcoholic beverages in general? Most states that have state controlled liquor distribution (not a big Wiki fan, but this seems pretty accurate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_state )
    *don't* require beer to be sold in liquor stores. But, anumber of states still require all alcoholic beverages to be sold in privately owned liquor stores. New Jersey is one, and, since I just took a trip to Maine, I can say Mass. seems to be the same (so restriction on sales is not necessarily a red state/blue state divide).

    quote:
    Originally posted by desertdog

    quote:






    Surely not the old State Run stores where you go in to a counter and tell the person what you want and they go back to get it for you.....has to be in a brown paper bag......closed on Sundays...



    PA still had some of those type stores a while ago, but I don't buy much liquor so can't really say about most states (see Wiki link). As with just about any part of the subject, it's hard to generalize about alcoholic beverage sales in the individual states.
    #12
    Big Dave
    Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 142
    • Joined: 2005/05/13 23:03:00
    • Location: Warren, OH
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 19:38:58 (permalink)
    When I was in Indiana in 1996, one could get beer at the supermarket, except it was warm (bleccccchhhhh). Supermarkets could not sell it cold. Stop and robs could not sell any alcohol. No Sunday sales except bars and restaurants. The (state?) liquor stores sold beer warm and cold, but cold cost a buck more. Corkscrews, shotglasses and the like were available. Nobody could sell beer/wine/liquor on Election day (primary or general) until 6PM, when the polls closed. IIRC, at bars, the liquor bottles had to be covered (or was that Ohio?) Bars could sell beer and liquor to go.

    A good friend of mine told me that Ohio had a law that prohibited alcohol sales. I looked it up in my ORC book and this law was repealed in 1976. Most, if not all supermarkets stop selling at about 1245AM. Same is true with stop and robs. Bars and restaurants can go to 230AM. When Ohio had the State Liquor Stores (run by the state), some went back and filled your written request. Others had it on the shelves self service. All product was brown bagged and stapled. State stores are now State Liquor Agencies. A statewide issue changed things, but I don't remember which year. State agencies can sell booze and beer. They set their own hours of operation, but I think closing is still determined by the state. Sunday is restricted to bars and restaurants. I have seen some agencies in supermarkets. They are in a totally seperate area and the transaction is seperate from grocery purchases. I believe that carts are allowed in the agencies. The brown bagging is still the norm. Since I don't buy booze on a regular basis, I'm not sure if there were changes.

    Ohio also advertises state minimum pricing. This is for beer. The state minimum is advertised more at the stop and rob than the supermarket.

    To attempt to get this thing back on topic, I'll bring up craft brew. I save sampled many of our local brews. I can't think of one I didn't like. I can't say the same for the nationals. I have been a Miller drinker since GHW Bush was President. As of now, I don't have any take on the pending merger.

    If I wanted to get the Pabst brands (once in a while), no problem. PBR, Blatz and Stroh's are readily available. Schlitz is nowhere to be found (it was nasty on tap).

    I was thinking about attempting homebrewing. With my luck (I would have brewed lagers), it would have tasted like gasoline. Even worse, like bp.

    #13
    Davydd
    Sirloin
    • Total Posts : 6346
    • Joined: 2005/04/24 12:15:00
    • Location: Tonka Bay, MN
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 20:08:49 (permalink)
    Believe it or not I saw Schlitz in my local liquor in six pack bottles. I didn't pull one out of the cooler to see who is actually brewing it. I may on the next visit. In Cincinnati during my college days (60s) the local bar in the half level down cellar on Ludlow Ave. got a free sample case of Schlitz bottles from a distributor. None of the locals would drink it but at the time was one of my favorites that you could easily get in Indianapolis but not in Cincinnati. I struck up a deal with the owner. I got to drink it at half price (25 cents per bottle) and he kept it cold for me. It lasted me a few weeks. I suspect he would have given me the case if I asked for it but it was more fun stopping in and getting a "deal".

    About those Ohio state liquor stores. They were hard to find and few and far between. One time back in the sixties we had an address and knew the block but drove up and down that block at least a half dozen times and couldn't find it looking from a car. That's how bad the signage was. The were little black signs with gold lettering and they were not very big. I hope for Ohioans things have changed.

    David Stovall
    Tonka Bay , MN
    #14
    Big Dave
    Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 142
    • Joined: 2005/05/13 23:03:00
    • Location: Warren, OH
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/22 21:16:34 (permalink)
    Good pernt. I forgot that Ohio's liquor stores had small and sometimes unreadable signage. Now, the liquor agencies have3 decengt signage. It's even backlit.

    I made a big typo. The law that was repealed applied to Election day. I encourage my fellow Ohioans to drink and vote.
    #15
    desertdog
    Double Chili Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 1946
    • Joined: 2006/05/24 19:03:00
    • Location: Scottsdale, AZ
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/23 00:42:57 (permalink)

    very interesting.

    In Arizona the only restriction that I have been faced with is the sale of alcohol (packaged or at a bar) before 10 AM on Sundays.

    The grocery stores all sell Cold Beer, alcohol and wine, as do the gas stations, pharmacys, in addition to the liquor stores. Not sure what purpose the liquor stores serve in AZ, other than maybe a wider variety of booze.

    DD

    #16
    jesskidden
    Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 152
    • Joined: 2005/07/25 06:15:00
    • Location: Middlesex-Monmouth-M, NJ
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/23 07:00:54 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Big Dave


    If I wanted to get the Pabst brands (once in a while), no problem. PBR, Blatz and Stroh's are readily available. Schlitz is nowhere to be found (it was nasty on tap).



    As noted, Pabst owns and markets most of the old Stroh and Heileman labels, so the four brands above are all Pabst brands. ( http://www.pabst.com/ tho' I suggest turned down/off your speakers first). Pabst has no breweries (soon to be the #3 "brewer", they are merely a marketing company, or as it's sometimes put in the industry a "virtual brewer") and most of their beer is brewed at Miller breweries, tho' more seem to be coming from City (Lacrosse WI- the former Heileman headquarter brewery) and from The Lion (Wilkes-Barre, PA). The Coors-Miller merger in the US may affect that, of course.

    Schlitz, the long-time #2 US brewery (in the late 40's-mid-50's they were sometimes #1) feel on hard times (mostly due to mis-management- messing with their brewing technique and recipe), was bought by Stroh (circa early 1980's) and continued downhill. Pabst looks like it's about to try to re-create the success they had with Blue Ribbon with they old Milwaukee rivals from the looks of this new website-
    http://www.schlitzgusto.com/

    The current "success" of Pabst Blue Ribbon, tho', wasn't really Pabst's doing, they just fell into it. In fact, "Pabst" today has little relationship to the Pabst of old. In the mid-80's, it was bought by the company S+P, that was infamous for buying up breweries and driving them into the ground, and is best known as the owners of the Falstaff-General-Pearl group. All those breweries are gone now (some gutted and shipped to China), tho' S+P/Pabst still markets some of their old brands, of course.
    #17
    acoustic blues
    Hamburger
    • Total Posts : 86
    • Joined: 2003/11/09 17:44:00
    • Location: carbondale, PA
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/23 12:22:54 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by desertdog



    Are there still states that require Liquor Store only sales?

    Surely not the old State Run stores where you go in to a counter and tell the person what you want and they go back to get it for you.....has to be in a brown paper bag......closed on Sundays...

    DD




    Welcome to my state of Pennsylvania, Desert Dog, where you can only buy liquor and wine from state run stores and beer only from a distributor.
    And not on Sundays, although there are a very select few state stores that are open on Sundays. Talk about stifling competition.
    PA has got to be one of the most restrictive states there is in this regard, and it's not likely to change anytime soon.
    State store jobs (were/are?) traditionally political patronage positions awarded to cronies.
    I absolutely LOATHE our system and even have gotten into some bitter exchanges with state store employees.
    I am lucky enough to live close to both the NY and NJ borders and that's where I spend my money for wine and spirits.
    I boycott PA State Sores every chance I get.


    #18
    tamandmik
    Double Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 949
    • Joined: 2003/06/25 10:11:00
    • Location: Las Cruces, NM
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/23 12:33:11 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by desertdog


    very interesting.

    In Arizona the only restriction that I have been faced with is the sale of alcohol (packaged or at a bar) before 10 AM on Sundays.

    The grocery stores all sell Cold Beer, alcohol and wine, as do the gas stations, pharmacys, in addition to the liquor stores. Not sure what purpose the liquor stores serve in AZ, other than maybe a wider variety of booze.

    DD




    Same in New Mexico, except we have to wait until noon on Sunday instead of 10. Which means, of course, no Miller Lite on my Corn Flakes on Sunday morning.

    It's amazing how much more liberal alcohol sales are here in the Southwest, compared to my former home of New Jersey. And, as the other poster mentioned, you can forget about buying booze in Pennsylvania. They make it very difficult to obtain there, unless you are out drinking. It seems as though the laws are meant to stifle home consumption, it's as if the tavern owners are somehow in cahoots with the state legislature.
    #19
    seafarer john
    Filet Mignon
    • Total Posts : 3481
    • Joined: 2003/03/24 18:58:00
    • Location: New Paltz, NY
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/23 16:04:44 (permalink)
    NY still has some pretty arcane alcohol laws. I's only been about two years since liquor stores (all private operations, no chains, no state stores) were allowed to stay open for sales on Sunday. The weekday hours are 9am -9pm, and the store MUST BE OPEN DURING ALL OF THOSE HOURS- NO EXCUSES! Brewpubs were allowed at least 25 years ago, and they've had a spotty history - a lot of bad food and so-so beer has closed a lot of them - those that are left are pretty good on average. However, a brew pub cannot package and sell its product outside their own shop. Small breweries have also had a rough tme in NY - the brewery in Kingston, has , I think, been thru three owners since it opened about 20 years ago - the curent operator is very good and has his products in a lot of restaurants and bars in the area.

    Just this past year small distillers were able to get reasonably priced licences from the State, but they still have a tough time with the Feds. This new law s a modification of the Farm Winery law of about 30 years ago which encouraged grape growers to vinify their own wines and sell them out of their own shops - they are also allowed to sell through distribtors throughout the nation (except ststes that wont allow such sales). The Farm Winery Law has been a great success here in New York.

    The distributors have a monopolistic lock on all aspects of the alcohol business here in New York (except the Farm Wineries). Everything must go from the producer (maybe to a jobber), then to the distributer and then to the retailer. The distributers have pretty much whacked up the state into individul fiefdoms with very little competition and they take a big part of the price we all ay at he local store. Further, the distributers cntrol what we can buy. i.e. up until August of this year I got my favorite Vermouth - a relativey obscure brand, Boissiere, thru several nearby liquor stores. Now it is not carried by any of them - the distributor doubled the price in an obvious and successful attempt to boost sales of his favored producer - Tribuno.

    We have Beer distributors who have no incentive to carry small producers and who's distribution is based on a single major brand - the only product they promote - they are allowed to sell beer only. The liquor distributors can sell any other kind of alcohol. Liquor stores cannot sell beer, but can sell accessory items like glasses and corkscrews - but no food items.
    Grocery and convenience stores can sell only beer, but they also, obviously, have all the accessories and the food products that go along with the beer.

    Liquor, wine, and beer purchases must be wrapped before thay can leave the premises - and we have strictly enforced "off-premises open container" laws. Liquor stored mst have only one entrance door and all incoming products and all outgoing products must pass thru that door only.Emergency fire exits are required, but must not be used as part of the business.
    Most prices in NY State are uniform throughout the State, but some discounting is allowed- 5%, I think is the maximum. If wine sells for a dollar a bottle, a half case can be discounted 5%, a full case 10% (we saw some discounts of 20% in the Finger Lakes wineries, but I suspect that was a gimmick and they were still operating within the law).

    The laws regulating bars is even stranger. more draconian, and enforced in a pecurliarly uneven way. All bars are required by law to have food available for sale to teir clients. A slightly notorious bar in Poughkeepsie used to have their customers leave their brown bag lunches in the refrigerator at the bar and claimed that those were "ready made take-out lunches" available to anyone.

    Cheers, John
    #20
    marshrat
    Junior Burger
    • Total Posts : 38
    • Joined: 2006/03/06 14:09:00
    • Location: Savannah, GA
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/23 16:38:57 (permalink)
    Looks like Schlitz is engaged in some revisionist history based on the timeline on their website. It was my beer of choice in the early seventies.
    #21
    jesskidden
    Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 152
    • Joined: 2005/07/25 06:15:00
    • Location: Middlesex-Monmouth-M, NJ
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/24 08:57:49 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by marshrat

    Looks like Schlitz is engaged in some revisionist history based on the timeline on their website.


    Well, more "deletionist" than "revisionist", I'd say. They have left out going to a faster fermentation period, switching to corn syrup and hop extract (from corn grits and hop pellets) and playing around with chemical additives that often didn't work well together, resulting in either cloudy or flat beer. Some of their advertising campaigns are also blamed for helping bring them down- in particular, the Schlitz Light commercials with tough guy actor James Coburn, which, as legend has it, were ridiculed on Madison Ave as the "drink Schlitz Light or I'll Kill You" campaign. And, when they finally collapsed, the fight between Stroh (the eventual buyer) and Heileman (Schlitz's preferred partner) over the once great brewing company.

    The interesting thing is, with the failure of both Schlitz and Pabst (and before that, Blatz) Milwaukee became a one mega-brewery town. But, with Pabst now contracting with Miller for it's beers, all those brands are once again "brewed in Milwaukee" - as is Old Milwaukee, Schlitz's former economy beer that eventually outsold both the former-flagship Schlitz and Stroh beers and is even Pabst's best selling brand- outselling Pabst Blue Ribbon by almost 2 to 1 (based on 2006 sales, anyway).

    The former Schlitz breweries are mostly closed, with the NY state facility having been bought by Anheuser Busch (they made a big deal about spending a lot of money bringing it up to A-B standards, IIRC)and the Memphis brewery recently closed by Coors after they finally got their Virginia plant brewing and merging with Molson (Blue Moon, once brewed in Memphis, is now coming from Canada).

    Maybe the most "successful" former Schlitz plant is the one in Florida that was eventually sold by Stroh to Yuengling. The once tiny PA brewing company is now in the top five of US breweries. (When I started my interest in beer, Yuengling was #7- in Pennsylvania. They didn't even make the top 30 in the US).
    #22
    tiki
    Filet Mignon
    • Total Posts : 4140
    • Joined: 2003/07/07 18:31:00
    • Location: Rentiesville, OK
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/24 14:27:02 (permalink)
    I n Oklahoma all the beer you get in groceries or conveinence stores is 3.2 beer---for REAL beers--be it domestic corporate beers or microbrews and imports--then you have to go to "Liquor store"---and if you sell 3.2 beer at you club,resteraunt--etc--you dont need a full liquor licence--just a "Beer" licence.
    #23
    GordonW
    Double Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 924
    • Joined: 2003/11/13 13:09:00
    • Location: Chapel Hill, NC
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/24 15:00:08 (permalink)
    North Carolina recently saw the light and now all kinds of beer can be sold. Previously there was a cap at 6%, so strong beers like Dogfish 90 Minute IPA and some of the Belgian beers can be sold, not even in liquor stores. But malt liquor could be sold in grocery stores.

    Grocery stores can sell beer (now the high-test stuff), wine and fortified wine. Spirits are sold at liquor stores, but while under overall state authority, directly under authorities organized by individual counties and larger municipalities. Decision to sell spirits is by local election; there are four dry counties, through a town in a dry county can elect to allow alcohol to be sold.

    Restaurants need a license for each kind of beverage sold: one each for beer, wine, fortified wine, and spirits; for on-premesis and off-premesis. And then brown-bag permits, mixed drink permits, occasional permits, and culinary permits.

    This stuff can drive a person to drink.
    #24
    MilwFoodlovers
    Filet Mignon
    • Total Posts : 3144
    • Joined: 2001/03/31 23:43:00
    • Location: Milwaukee, WI
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/24 15:34:52 (permalink)
    Fortified wine? I didn't realize that it was still being sold!

    #25
    David_NYC
    Double Chili Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 2164
    • Joined: 2004/08/01 15:15:00
    • Location: New York, NY
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/24 23:20:51 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by GordonW

    "And the people who once thought the craft brewing movement was a fad can now see it for what it really is — a welcome return to normality."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/19/opinion/19oliver.html?ref=opinion


    For the record, the author of that NY Times Op-Ed piece is the brewmaster of the Brooklyn Brewery. But, he speaketh the truth.

    The industrial brewers are going to keep Joe Sixpack's patronage for the foreseeable furure. But the craft brewers, unburdened by the mega advertising expenditure requirements of the IB's, have achieved the critical mass to survive by selling to folks like the readers of this forum who appreciate quality.
    #26
    John Fox
    Double Chili Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 2334
    • Joined: 2000/12/03 14:29:00
    • Location: Union, NJ
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/25 10:08:33 (permalink)
    As a teenager I was always fascinated by beer even if I didn't drink it. Or like it when I had a sip of my father's. I watched baseball on television and enjoyed all of the beer commercials by the companies that sponsored the local teams. And I would sneak a peak at my father's Playboy magazines which had advertisements from breweries explaining why their beer was better. "Beechwood aging", "double fermentation", "real draught taste", "imported hops" "no rice or corn", "aged longer". These ads piqued my interest in beer before I even aquired a taste for it.

    Just before I was old enough to legally drink, my friends and I would get an older person to buy us cheap beer. When I became of age, I tried all the beers that I could and began a beer can and breweriana collection. Somewhere along the line I aquired a taste for good beer. At the time, you had to buy imports to get a good beer since micros or craft breweries did not start popping up, at least not on the East Coast.

    When the craft brewing revolution began, I was excited and tried everything I could get my hands on. I too became a homebrewer. I was taught by a guy who eventually opened up his own brewery (Climax Brewing, Roselle Par, N.J.). I learned that you can make top quality beer at home; especially if you used advanced brewing methods like all grain brewing as opposed to using malt extract. You also have access to top of the line ingredients and can brew with all malt rather than cheapening and lightening your beer with adjuncts like the big industrial brewers do.

    It was a lot of fun to brew. I even sent a few bottles of my Porter to Maryland for a competition and was elated to get a 3rd place ribbon. But then the novelty wore off and I became too lazy to brew. I still have the equipment stored away. I would recommend homebrewing to anyone who really enjoys and appreciates beer. It's fun and not really hard, though it does take a few hours. But there's nothing like tasting a high quality beer that you brewed yourself.

    I also travelled around seeking out new brewpubs. These places usually have great beer. And you can't get it anywhere but where it's brewed. There's no fresher beer than what you get from a brewpub. Unless you brew it yourself. As my interest in travelling all over to visit new brewpubs began to fade, I developed a new fascination for sampling hot dogs. But that's another story. Gordon W, thanks for the link.
    #27
    Big Dave
    Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 142
    • Joined: 2005/05/13 23:03:00
    • Location: Warren, OH
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/25 23:29:54 (permalink)
    I had found an online manual on homebrewing. It was tempting and I really want to attempt it. I prefer lager over ale, with the exception of stout. There are a few problems. I know an electric stove doesn't have the temperature control that gas and propane have. I know I would screw up one of the critical stages, like quick cooling the wort. I really think a brew that I would make would make Big Jug look good.
    #28
    Mike_NZ
    Junior Burger
    • Total Posts : 48
    • Joined: 2007/01/17 08:28:00
    • Location: South Island, New Zealand
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/31 04:11:15 (permalink)
    John Fox,
    I have to agree with you about brewing your own beer.
    I'd also recommend it to anyone that likes a good beer with real taste.
    I've been making home-brew for about 15 years now and have barely touched commercial beer since.
    It's not difficult (especially if you go down the brew-kit road) and you don't need that much gear to get started either.
    However, what turns alot of first time brewers off is they have the brew go bad (either by lack of hygiene or from poor temperature control while the brew is fermenting) and they chuck the towel in before they even get started.
    Cleanliness is the biggest single issue with brewing beer.
    Biggest trouble I had initially was amassing enough (empty) beer bottles to get started brewing with.
    #29
    Davydd
    Sirloin
    • Total Posts : 6346
    • Joined: 2005/04/24 12:15:00
    • Location: Tonka Bay, MN
    • Status: offline
    RE: Don’t Fear Big Beer 2007/10/31 11:06:06 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by John Fox

    As a teenager I was always fascinated by beer even if I didn't drink it. Or like it when I had a sip of my father's. I watched baseball on television and enjoyed all of the beer commercials by the companies that sponsored the local teams. And I would sneak a peak at my father's Playboy magazines which had advertisements from breweries explaining why their beer was better. "Beechwood aging", "double fermentation", "real draught taste", "imported hops" "no rice or corn", "aged longer". These ads piqued my interest in beer before I even aquired a taste for it.

    Just before I was old enough to legally drink, my friends and I would get an older person to buy us cheap beer. When I became of age, I tried all the beers that I could and began a beer can and breweriana collection. Somewhere along the line I aquired a taste for good beer. At the time, you had to buy imports to get a good beer since micros or craft breweries did not start popping up, at least not on the East Coast.

    When the craft brewing revolution began, I was excited and tried everything I could get my hands on. I too became a homebrewer. I was taught by a guy who eventually opened up his own brewery (Climax Brewing, Roselle Par, N.J.). I learned that you can make top quality beer at home; especially if you used advanced brewing methods like all grain brewing as opposed to using malt extract. You also have access to top of the line ingredients and can brew with all malt rather than cheapening and lightening your beer with adjuncts like the big industrial brewers do.

    It was a lot of fun to brew. I even sent a few bottles of my Porter to Maryland for a competition and was elated to get a 3rd place ribbon. But then the novelty wore off and I became too lazy to brew. I still have the equipment stored away. I would recommend homebrewing to anyone who really enjoys and appreciates beer. It's fun and not really hard, though it does take a few hours. But there's nothing like tasting a high quality beer that you brewed yourself.

    I also travelled around seeking out new brewpubs. These places usually have great beer. And you can't get it anywhere but where it's brewed. There's no fresher beer than what you get from a brewpub. Unless you brew it yourself. As my interest in travelling all over to visit new brewpubs began to fade, I developed a new fascination for sampling hot dogs. But that's another story. Gordon W, thanks for the link.


    John Fox, I could have written this word for word almost exactly for my experience except I went on to breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches. You saved me the typing time.

    Big Dave, I started on an electric stove in my kitchen. The first boil over convinced me to invest in a propane cooker and move to the screen porch with the next batch.
    #30
    Page: 12 > Showing page 1 of 2
    Jump to:
    © 2014 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1