English-only ordering policy

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MilwFoodlovers
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 10:59:59 (permalink)
One of my favorite Chicago red hot places in town has chosen to add political slogans to all his food (he's a far far right wing kook btw). After being shocked at the Freedom fries , the Doyle burger and the Clinton something or other, I left, never to return. I'd have loved to tell him why, but there were only teenagers behind the counter. That said, I work in healthcare and I'm amazed at the lack of English spoken by a number of patients. Lao, Hmong, Vietnamese and Spanish with the majority of them Spanish. My point is that why do we accomodate the Spanish with bi-lingual signs and forms and not the others? That is what I feel is unfair. My grandfather was beaten at Carlisle if he attempted to speak Ojibwe and his was the native language of America! A WWI veteran, he and my Seabee veteran uncle were denied a beer on a hot day here in Wisconsin, this after WWII. I have Spanish friends, love Mexican food and shop in Hispanic markets but it boils my blood when my poor Spanish doesn't allow me to ask what some dish is because no one at the restaurant speaks a word of English. San Miguel de Allende is a potential retirement location but I guarantee that I'll be proficient in Spanish within 6 months. I speak French in Quebec, patios in Jamaica and Spanish to some of my patients (all poorly but the effort is always apreciated) . I do think its in everyone best interests to learn or at least attempt to learn English if you live in America. Speak whatever you want at home, at church, and at ethnic festivals as I think holding on to one heritage is very important; just don't expect everyone in America to learn your language, whatever it is.
#31
RibRater
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 11:28:47 (permalink)
I was at a local mexican restaurant last week. The waiter didn't speak a lick of english. Despite that, I received my 36 oz Michelob Lite ($2.00 each! I had two at that price) and my fajitas with chorizzo.

Pointed at the photo of that big mug of beer on the wall..pointed at the menu.

Ate, drank, all was good. Left a nice tip.

I respect the fact that a business owner can make the rules for their establishment..within the confines of the law. Other than that, you can add "English as the Official Language" debate to the long list of other things I could care less about..don't we have bigger fish to fry?

BUT, in the past I had to do some business with some folks in Quebec. I don't speak a lick of French. If the French are doing it, I tend to think it's not a good idea case in point:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,,1738529,00.html


#32
V960
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 11:31:57 (permalink)
How quickly do they have to learn? I am told by my Japanese friends that the most perfect Japanese you will ever hear spoken comes from older Koreans who were forced to learn it during the occupation. Is that correct? I agree that if you move to another country you learn the language. But how quickly? I can order food or get myself past the guard shack to see a customer in at least six languages. I did this out of need. Somehow a cheese steak doesn't seem to be in the same league. Want to bet that three doors down there is an equally good steak place that will take their order? I would not order in this place if I saw this sign. Obscence gestures, the finger, should not be on menu boards. BTW I have NEVER ordered Cheese Whiz.

Can't order a sandwich because you don't speak crap English? The word is "with" not "wit" you stupid Philly WOP. But I digress. Next he won't serve southern boys or ivy leaguers becusee they speak slowly or through clenched teeth?

This bothers me more than it should. Restaurants are not the place to make political statements. It is a service industry and should serve the customer who graces your door. My father comes to mind, many years ago, we had a family from eastern Europe come into the restaurant. NOT A WORD OF ENGLISH...how they found us is beyond me. Dad proceeded to show them each dish as it came out of the kitchen. Heads nodding we took as orders and side to side meant no. The Father handed my Father a wad of cash...Dad took out the bill, a decent tip and handed the man back the rest.

I somehow think their next experience was not as good. Waffle House for these folks would have been interesting.

Private businesses should be able to refuse seervice to unruley patrons but not to, say blacks or Irish or Chinese or anyone else the bigoted owner chooses. That is simply wrong. This chap is refusing service to Latinos...he says non English speakers but get real...he's discriminating against Latinos.

Them black boys don't eat right. Those Irish are trash and steal. Chinese need to go to the back of the place. WOP's talk funny. Got to talk crap English to get a cheese steak here.

I'm sorry if I ranted too much but small minded bigots just tick me off.



#33
Greymo
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 12:01:43 (permalink)
The correct spelling isI-T-A-L-I-A-N and not WOP.
#34
BT
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 12:25:57 (permalink)
Problem at the new neighborhood Chinese the other day (I tried it for the first time): I walked in, looked at the menu and ordered "Szechuan Chicken". The waitperson, smiled, nodded, said, "Ah yes, SESAME chicken." I said, "No, no, SZECHUAN chicken." We did several rounds of this so finally I grabbed the menu and pointed to the Szechuan chicken. When the order came, the waitperson said, "Here your order. Sesame chicken, right?" So I said, "NO!! Szechuan chicken!" Finally I just gave up and took it home. It was Szechuan chicken and pretty good.
#35
BT
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 12:36:42 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Larry - RibRater - Jay

you can add "English as the Official Language" debate to the long list of other things I could care less about..don't we have bigger fish to fry?



As the article I linked back at the beginning discusses, perhaps not in the long run of our country. But let's first emphasize that the country's OFFICIAL LANGUAGE doesn't have much to do with what people speak at home, in the street or when ordering a cheesesteak. I agree with you that what people do in all those situations is of little concern to me.

Officially, though, language is a big part of the glue that holds any country together and countries that have more than one widely spoken language tend to get into trouble over it (not always, there's Switzerland). So I'm for making English OFFICIAL, meaning that's the only language with which you can communicate with the government and carry out its functions including voting, while avoiding government interference in the language required to order that cheesesteak. And, at the same time, I think the government should offer widespread, free English-As-A-Second-Launguage (known around here as "ESL") classes for anyone who wants them including South Philly natives and others who don't yet speak English.
#36
The Travelin Man
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 13:47:29 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Greymo

The correct spelling is I-T-A-L-I-A-N and not WOP.


I always thought it was spelled G-U-I-N-E-A?
#37
beentheredonethat
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 15:04:22 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by V960


The word is "with" not "wit" you stupid Philly WOP.


Could that statement make YOU a small-minded bigot, since "WOP" is a derogatory term for Italian (no matter what it "really" means)? And you may want to ask a sometime-poster here if it's "wit"...he knows. It's part of his name. And he's far from stupid.

Lastly, Mr. Vento couldn't be too stupid, could he, since business is more than likely better than ever. No such thing as bad press!

#38
MilwFoodlovers
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 15:56:27 (permalink)
Oh, Mr. Vento can too be stupid.
He may be financially rich and still lack those qualities that assure you a pleasant afterlife.
BTW, why are there two threads on this fellow?
#39
V960
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 16:12:39 (permalink)
Folks he's a BIGOT...I think that gives me the right to call him a WOP, Guinea (does anyone kown the origin of that one?) or just bigotted jerk. To put an obscene gesture on your menu is absurd and down right wrong.

I'm a mick. No problem, our time of discrimination is over. So is the time for WOPS.

To get back to food...The best Italian food comes from Irish women who lived in the same walk-ups in NYC as the Italians. The Italian women would cook by feel but the Irish would be unsure of red sauce and would write everything down. The may have changed it slightly but it basically remained the same for FOREVER.

My Irish Grandmother's recipe for red sauce came from an Italian lady down the hall she wrote down in the late 1800's. Great stuff.
#40
NebGuy
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 16:27:54 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by V960
To put an obscene gesture on your menu is absurd and down right wrong.

V960 2 things. First the picture is from Pat's not Geno's, and second Frank "doctored" up the picture a bit.

http://www.roadfood.net/Reviews/Overview.aspx?RefID=233
#41
V960
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 16:43:02 (permalink)
So basically this whole thread and my outrage is based on an altered photo and BS. Trolled again...I'll never learn.
#42
BT
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 17:04:11 (permalink)
But doesn't outrage make you HUNGRY? If so, all is not lost . . . .
#43
EdSails
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 17:05:29 (permalink)
Just as an aside.......one of my favorite veggies are pea shoots, very common in Asian cuisines. One day I had the urge to make them (if you ever find them, steamed lightly and served with just a splash of soy sauce on them-----delicious!) so I set off to the section of Long Beach populated highly by Vietnamese, Cambodians and Thai. The usual Vietnamese market that I bought them at was sold out. I went into maybe six or seven markets looking for it------asked someone there-----and got blank stares. Most places just shook their heads----obviously didn't understand English at all. If I'd known their name was "dot sau hòa lan" or "dou miao" I might have had a chance. I finally gave up that day-----defeated by the language barrier again!
#44
Pat T Hat
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 20:53:07 (permalink)
The correct spelling is D-A-G-O I believe. Before anyone accuses me of being a bigot, I must amend by saying I'm an equal opportunity bigot. I hate EVERYBODY equally ! One blob of protoplasm can be just as intolerant and insensitive as another. No group, race, or creed has cornered the market on ignorance yet!
#45
The Travelin Man
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 23:32:26 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by V960

Guinea (does anyone kown the origin of that one?)


The word is widely considered to be the most offensive thing you can call an Italian. I believe it's origins are from the Guinea coast of Africa (and what THAT has to do with Italy and Italians, I do not know), and roughly equates Italians dark skins with those that are from the area of Guinea, blacks.

Personally, my favorite Italian term is "garlic eater," which I learned while watching 'The Pride of the Yankees.'
#46
enginecapt
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/10 23:52:14 (permalink)
Joltin Joe's teammates referred to him as "Dage", seldom "Joe". That was back before everyone got so #@*^%$%^ touchy.
#47
MilwFoodlovers
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/11 20:46:29 (permalink)
From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_slur
Wop
(U.S. & UK Commonwealth) an Italian (sometimes any Southern European), especially an immigrant; probably originated in the U.S., but later spread to other countries. Probably derives from the Neapolitan slang term guappo! (pretty/handsome one), often used by the first immigrants from Italy to address or call to each other. Popular etymology gives the origin as "WithOut Passport", although some believe the acronym derived from "WithOut Papers" or "Without Official Papers", suggesting illegal immigration. This folk etymology sometimes combines the term with "guinea" to form "Giny Wop," with Giny being an acronym for Going Into New York, hence "Going Into New York Without Official Papers".

BTW, this site lists pretty much all of them.
#48
Bob in Cary
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/11 22:04:49 (permalink)
I love taquerias and am frequently the only English speaking person there. The first time I went to one near the house I was standing in line with the construction workers. They all placed their order in Spanish. When I got to the counter the lady asked in perfect English what I would like. I looked at her quizzically and said "No habla Inglese". She laughed and has been my buddy ever since.
#49
lunasatic
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/19 14:09:26 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by BhamBabe

Having been made fun of from the West coast, just three weeks ago I might add, to all over the North, I refuse to give my money to anyone who is rude. Making fun of my accent is not endearing to say the least. They may have the right to post whatever sign they like but I also have the right to take my money, and the money of those traveling with me, somewhere else.

I avoid places that mixes fast greasy food with politics or religion. I'm there for food, I could care less what they think about any subject. I want that I'll read the editorial section of the newspaper.

The joint in Cali was funny in a surreal kind of fashion, a hispanic making fun of my southern accent was just strange.


Yeah, I caught a piece of that action a few years ago myself. Born & raised in Louisiana by native parents; never lost the drawl in spite of several years up & down the east coast & in Scotland/Ireland. Decided to attempt to learn Irish Gaelic; had such an accent the TEACHER laughed! (Success was nil - I'm a numbers person!)Oh, well!
#50
-Tricky-
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/19 14:54:21 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by caratzas

To me, Geno's sign reflects a resistance to change and failure to accept that it's a free country, and this is kind of repulsive. I'm not denying his right to serve whoever he wants -- it's his store after all -- but the policy is reflective of a paleolithic attitude that at its worst manifests itself in blood feuds and civil wars. I expect better from an American.


Well said. He can post anything he wants, just like people can choose to eat whereever they want to. I support his right to say anything he wants, as long as I have the right to think he's an #@$%S*&.
#51
Fieldthistle
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/19 14:58:34 (permalink)
Hello All,
It's a scary world, isn't it?
I know these words aren't meant in regards to terrorist, but
I try my hardest to live by these words from Leviticus 19:33-34
(I am not trying to preach or tell anyone they are wrong for their
feeling, okay?)
"When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong.
The stranger who sojourns with you shall be to you as the native among you, and
you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt:.."
and I will omit the last statement for non-believers and agnostics, due to
it's statement of a deity affirming Him/Her Self.
Frankly, I think we are all a bit of strangers to each other and the only way
to stop being strangers is to try to understand and eventually love each other.
Yeah, I know, sounds like crap. But it really works when you try it more than
once, or twice, or however many times. We can't give up on trying. Why is it
so easy to give into bitterness? Why is bad change so easy while good change so hard?
You, all, are such good people. That is why I come to roadfood.com..
It seems it is easier not relax with life, and loving seems to have been more complicated
than natural. I am trying, and it is hard, to relax and love. But it is hard in the
world where we all are strangers to each other.
Take Care, (and yeah, I sound like an as-hole)
Fieldthistle
#52
Pat T Hat
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/19 15:14:54 (permalink)
That was a wonderful passage Fieldthistle! I am in fact agnostic but that doesn't mean you can't find good words in good books! A phrase such as "why can't we all just get along" pales' by comparison. And by the way, no one who would try to live life by this passage from Leviticus could not possibly sound like an a-ho!
#53
WVHillbilly
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/19 15:27:19 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by tmiles

I speak only English. I have managed to order food all over the world. With few exceptions, I have been made to feel welcome at each place be it a simple soba cart or a white tablecloth restaurant.


That's exactly right miles. The best I can do is some very broken Spanish and like you, I've ordered in a number of non-English countries and always gotten what I wanted and usually by very gracious servers.
"This is America- order in English" is nothing but a mean spirited prop. I speak English, but I'd walk away from some rednecked place that posted a sign like that.

Americans are being terrorized into thinking that we are being invaded by immigrants. It's all a crock of bs perpetrated by people whose intent is to keep the masses on edge. They're much easier to control that way.
Sadly the mass of proles in their quiet desperation, fall for this terrorist propaganda.
OK, so I digress again.
#54
pcdiva
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/20 00:23:16 (permalink)
You know folks, I can count to ten, say please and thank you and swear in about 5 different languages. In situations where my command of a language wasn't up to ordering food, pointing and smiling worked really well. But with the proliferation of ethnic restaurants in the U.S., I feel pretty confident that I could order a meal most anywhere in the world and know what I was going to get. That's one of the blessings that immagrants have brought to us.

I don't support an English only policy for a restaurant any more than I would support it for the U.S. as a whole.
#55
Pat T Hat
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/20 01:46:22 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by pcdiva

But with the proliferation of ethnic restaurants in the U.S., I feel pretty confident that I could order a meal most anywhere in the world and know what I was going to get. That's one of the blessings that immagrants have brought to us.



What a very groovy way of looking at it!
#56
WVHillbilly
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/20 09:46:24 (permalink)
This has been a good thread. . . bogus origin or not. I've learned that most road fooders are NOT bigotted fools and realize what this country was founded upon and how it works. It's good to be among people like that even if it is cyber space.
WV(feelinthelove)Hillbilly
#57
Scorereader
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/20 10:17:37 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Fieldthistle

I try my hardest to live by these words from Leviticus...
Take Care,
Fieldthistle



Remember to take caution when quoting Leviticus. It's not all so kind and compassionate.



#58
a noid
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/21 12:41:46 (permalink)
The worst that I have heard is that my right-wing nutjob Senator, Rick Santorum, actually went to Geno's and told the owner that he approved his attitude. What a bunch of "uniting, not dividing," lying, hypocritical asses!
#59
-Tricky-
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RE: English-only ordering policy 2006/06/21 12:49:41 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by a noid

The worst that I have heard is that my right-wing nutjob Senator, Rick Santorum, actually went to Geno's and told the owner that he approved his attitude. What a bunch of "uniting, not dividing," lying, hypocritical asses!


I hope he loses in November. If he has to be my Senator much longer, I don't know what I'll do. That man definitely doesn't represent me!

(And, , to Santorum. I hadn't heard he'd said that.)
#60
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