FAST FOOD and US

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Adjudicator
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2003/06/13 20:42:27 (permalink)

FAST FOOD and US

OK. Seems I have gotten quite a few intelligent responses to my last post concerning FAST FOOD NATION. Let's now take this a step further. All here know of the hazards of fast food, both in scenarios from e-coli to obesity. What should be done concerning this? I.E., have the corporate bean-counters with these institutions now totally assumed that the American public is totally ignorant? (example CKE/Hardee's advertisements for their new product line) OR has the public at large been totally sucked in by the corporate advertising strategy of these FFR corporate gluttons? Keep in mind that a burger is a burger, whether it is from a road-food type establishment or a corporate giant. Any comments?
#1

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    Sundancer7
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/13 21:12:08 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Adjudicator

    OK. Seems I have gotten quite a few intelligent responses to my last post concerning FAST FOOD NATION. Let's now take this a step further. All here know of the hazards of fast food, both in scenarios from e-coli to obesity. What should be done concerning this? I.E., have the corporate bean-counters with these institutions now totally assumed that the American public is totally ignorant? (example CKE/Hardee's advertisements for their new product line) OR has the public at large been totally sucked in by the corporate advertising strategy of these FFR corporate gluttons? Keep in mind that a burger is a burger, whether it is from a road-food type establishment or a corporate giant. Any comments?

    It seems that you have an axe to grind. I am not a fan of most chains, but I do recoginize that they have a standard of quality control. Not that I believe that all who own some of the establishments subscribe to the standard operational manual, but they do have it.

    I notice that when I go to Walmart, they empty their seafood counter each evening and totally clean it. I notice that Krogers also do the same. That cost a huge amount of money and I implore you to notice if you believe each mom and pop has the yenom (money spell backwards) can afford to do that??? Neither can many other small establishments afford to do that.

    The problem with chains is as they grow larger, the corporate mentality emerges. They have to keep improving profits and reducing cost. I know as that is the mentality of the company I work with. I have watched MickieD's go downhill since 1960. However, they are also forced by other pressures to keep certain quality standards up due to public scrutinty and lawsuits.

    Mom and Pop can come and go.

    Just another point of view.

    Sincerely and Respectfully
    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN
    #2
    ocdreamr
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/13 23:26:12 (permalink)
    Go Bushie!!
    #3
    mayor al
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/14 04:37:13 (permalink)
    Gee Bushie, I wish you would stop with the gentle pussiefooting and tell us how you really feel.
    In our town in SoCal a few years back, Walmart wanted to open a new store. A group of folks who opposed that idea made a big deal out of "the Evils of Walmart"...The fact remains that 10 years later the store is jumping, and the stores that located in or near the "WalMart Center" are enjoying larger volume of business also. I wondered about the behavior of the "Anti-Group" after the store opened, until I saw one of it's leaders shopping in the WalMart. when I asked the lady why she would do that after her strong position opposed to the WalMart opening...She said she still opposes WalMart's Policies, but she couldn't disagree with it's prices! Now that's Capitalism for you.
    If you don't like McDonald's, just give up your job there and go to work at Mom's Diner.
    #4
    CheeseWit
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/14 08:42:05 (permalink)
    I second Bushie's sentiments. Go Bushie!! You 'da man!
    #5
    Adjudicator
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/14 14:12:47 (permalink)
    I am a bit confused by all of your comments. All I wanted was perhaps some intelligent insight into the comments I made. Instead, I have obviously been branded as "anti-capitalist" and even a member of the "judiciary branch" What gives here? Perhaps I should re-phrase my question a bit... If the American public at large knows of the inherent dangers of eating such food as offered at all FFRS AND also the similarity of eating food anywhere that is basically "hazardous" to one's health, then why do they EAT it in the first place? I attempted to associate the same with the massive advertising strategy that is now associated with most all FFR's and chain restaurants now. It is obvious that most of these said entities are spending massive amounts of money to make us consumers feel that their product, although laden with enormous amounts of fat calories just as much as their competitors, is, alas, better. This in turn seems to be correlated with a general duping of the public at large, because surely the people of this nation would not eat food that is unhealthful to them. RIGHT?????? At least my posts create reply, whether favorable or not.
    #6
    mayor al
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/14 15:00:17 (permalink)
    They do create response, I will grant that. What I don't understand is why you continue to beat up the Fast Food Industry, instead of ALL food establishments that prepare and serve anything that could have a negative impact on the human (or other) body. Should we reinstate Prohibition because Alcohol surely (minus the red-wine for health freaks) has a negative effect.... Or stop selling refined sugar because it is a major contributing factor to some of the problems you present. No, You don't touch that...Instead you want to nail McDonald's as the reason Americans often make stupid decisions. I don't frequent Mickie Dee's much, but I think the business has as much right to participate in food service as Mom's Diner. The American Public may be slow in reacting to problems, but in the long run we eventually use economic strength to either terminate or cause the evolution of a business to meet the needs of the consumer.
    As we grow older, we tend to look at the newer directions--in this case in food service, and feel that many times we are headed in a direction that is undesireable....well, welcome to evolution, If enough folks wanted to shut down a fast food service, it would happen. Meantime, Don't go to one...but don't even start to think that you have the right to stop me from going if I so choose.
    #7
    Sundancer7
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/14 15:15:56 (permalink)
    It is my guess that the "Adjudicator" does not eat any place except at home because by his definition, all places that use fat are harmful to this individuals health. There is nothing wrong with being a vegetarian, but the human body can consume fat without harm. They been doing it for a long time according to the bible I read. The "Adjudicator" is obviously a very bias individual and it appears that this individual wishes the world to do as it does.

    The "Mayor's" comment regarding alcohol obviously has merit. It too can be harmful if consumed in large amounts. Obviously alcohol has been enjoyed for many centuries. Jesus turned the water into wine. If had been harmful, perhaps he would have turned it into Diet Coke or Kool-Aide.

    You can do another spin on the fast food industry. They can force other types of restaurants to step up to the plate, compete and actually improve products for everyone. Then again, if they are not successful, the margins are not there and they fade away.

    It is neat that this forum offers the opportunity to express points of views, but when the author presents the point of view so biased, I suspect the intent is some sort of veiled problem.

    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN
    #8
    ocdreamr
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/14 20:06:38 (permalink)
    There has been a lot of pilloring of chains & fast food places in general of late. The question oft repeated is why would anyone go there to begin with. While a FFR or chain may not be my first choice I can understand why someone would go.
    There are those who go because it may be all they can afford & may well be one of the few places they would be welcome (the homeless)
    There are those who go because it is something they know (unadverturous travelers - have you never had to travel somewhere not because you wanted to but because you had to, death in family, business)
    Those who have the kids (I was in an Arby's today where every little leaguer in a ten mile area it seemed, came in for after game treats.)
    Those who need to grab something quick before doing the grocery shopping - the reason I was in the Arby's
    I also credit both the chains & FFRs with introducing populations to unfamiliar foods, I know Taco Bell & Chi Chi's where in my area long before the Hondurans & Mexicans made their way to Maryland to open wonderful authentic hispaninc restaurants. By the time they came the people were ready to broaden their tastes.
    There are also those people who were not brought up eating out in anything other than FFRs therefore chains like Bennigans, TGIF etc are a step up for them, we can assume their cildren will be more experimental and move on to better choices
    Lastly, sometimes you just gotta eat somewhere. If you've ever traveled along some of the interstates in the middle of nowhere then you know it can be 40 miles or more between places to eat, if all you can find is a FFR you eat there, particularly when like myself you are diabetic & waiting another hour isn't an option.
    And as to the presumption that an independently owned restaurant is healthier, earlier today I read a thread on Chowhound's DC board about the VA health departments ratings of some of the DC suburbs fanciest places. Not good!! I know in Baltimore Tio Pepe's one of the oldest & most expensive is always walking the border of being closed down by the health department.
    Poor food choices can be made anywhere - lobster with butter? Fettucine Alfredo?? Pate de fois Gras???? and the list goes on.
    #9
    mayor al
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/14 20:42:25 (permalink)
    OC,
    It has been my experience dealing with tons of HS Seniors and Jr College students over the past couple of decades that your wish that the next generation will have more "curiosity" (my word) and desire to experiment with more exploration of the world in general...and with food in specific, may be more of a pipe dream and not the evolutionary direction I alluded to in one of my previous 'Rants" above.
    Example... In one of my last classes, the class of 2000, we had a Czech Exchange student. We talked alot outside of class about the European customs and the 'Americanization' of much of his culture. He brought it to my attention that his host family never ate together as a family...even on weekends. The family's idea of eating out was to order Pizza or KFC and bring it home, then go their seperate ways with the food to consume it. He had not been to a sit-down restaurant for the first 9 months of his visit. His family was not poor, both parents worked and the kids were both H S age with busy schedules of their own. When he asked about 'going out to eat' The whole family protested that "It Took to Long to have a meal in a restaurant". When they got hungry they wanted to eat..."Right Now"!! They defended their lifestyle using the need for individual schedules as the basis for a total lack of "togetherness." I thought that this was an extreme case until I talked more with other students. Few had been to any place where the food was not ready when you walked in the door. I think this is the direction we are headed... not willing to look or sample anything that isn't in the canned package that we have in our mind. How many folks do you know who have Playstations in their car to give the kids something to do on even the shortest of roadtrips? I took my 34 yr old son with me on a roadtrip to SoCal last year and he slept most of the way, saying the Plains and Desert were boring, and not worth wasting his time to look around. That same lack of curiosity extends into many kids food habits, education plans, marriage statistics and tons of other areas.
    I do not think this is a good thing, but I also do not blame fast-food or any other individual subset of the culture... I think we are always looking for the 'easy way' and tend to gravitate in the direction of least resistance.
    Man, this really reads as an 'Old Fart's Ranting' but it is the way I see things.
    AL
    #10
    seafarer john
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/14 22:53:59 (permalink)
    Fat is where the flavor is. So, if the fast food industry is filling us with fat, how come the crap they put out tastes so bad? But, the more important question is how did we get so dumbed down that we dont know what tastes good anymore?

    Personally I'm glad the majority go to the Fast food joints. If they ever discovered the joys of BBQ and oysters and fresh fruit and good yeasty bread and well made beer and wine and lobsters and pastries, and all the things we all love - there would be severe shortages of good food, the prices would go up, and we'd all have to stand in long long lines.
    #11
    wanderingjew
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/15 11:28:30 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by seafarer john

    Fat is where the flavor is. So, if the fast food industry is filling us with fat, how come the crap they put out tastes so bad? But, the more important question is how did we get so dumbed down that we dont know what tastes good anymore?

    Personally I'm glad the majority go to the Fast food joints. If they ever discovered the joys of BBQ and oysters and fresh fruit and good yeasty bread and well made beer and wine and lobsters and pastries, and all the things we all love - there would be severe shortages of good food, the prices would go up, and we'd all have to stand in long long lines.


    That's the point I've been trying to make. With so many drones and robots following the fast food and chain gods, it will put all of the mom and pop places out of business It's happening now! It's been happening for at least the last 10 or 15 years. At the rate we are going in 20 years all we'll have left is McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, KFC, Applebees, Fridays and Bennigans. Oh and how can I forget....Waffle House
    #12
    Sundancer7
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/15 11:38:42 (permalink)
    The only way a FFR will ever put the smaller establishments out of business is if and only if they have a superior product.

    In my opinion the statement indicating that in 10-15 years, the smaller establishments will be put out of business is not a valid point.

    McD's has sat at the top of the heap for many years as far as locations and dollar volume. Their profitability has always been decent up until recently. They can no long longer continue their pace and in fact same store sales are decreasing inspite of more stringent portion control and higher prices.

    If you get to thinking about it, Mom and Pop types that are sucessful strive to expand their product. If they have adequate financing, superior management and a good product plus great vision, they will continue to grow. If they are big enough and good enough, they will eventually become a large chain.

    It all starts at the roots. All chains began as one.

    Then again, you have a choice. If you don't like it, don't eat it.

    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN
    #13
    Bushie
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/15 12:21:28 (permalink)
    Bartender, bring us all a round of Root Beer, and put 'em on my tab!

    Oh, and bring my friend wanderingjew a double order of Waffle House hash browns, scattered, smothered, & peppered...
    #14
    seafarer john
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/15 12:38:39 (permalink)
    It has been axionmatic that no other business fails more often than the restaurant business. So I dont worry too much about the independents going out of business - of course we all hate to see a place we like fail
    and close , but I doubt if many failures are due entirely to the chain's competition.

    A major problem with the "Mom&Pop" is that many people form a romantic ideal of serving their favorite food to loving clients and going home at the end of the day well paid and happy. The reality is that opening a restaurant is tantamount to buying yourself an 18 hour day, with complaining customers, theiving help, extortionate suppliers, greedy bankers, nit-picking health deaprtments,and failing equipment, all conspiring to ruin your life. Thank God for all those wonderful people and their dedicated service to those of us who appreciate what they are doing and support them with our patronage.

    The chains will always be with us, but they will prosper and grow and slowly die (i.e. McDonalds is in its death throes right now) as fads and tastes change over time. While we may not ever need the chains (except as a clean place to stop and pee) and we certainly never need to patronize them , they will always be with us. So lets move on to talk about the real roadfood places we are lucky enough to learn about from our fellow correspondents.
    #15
    Sundancer7
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/15 12:50:15 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Bushie

    Bartender, bring us all a round of Root Beer, and put 'em on my tab!

    Oh, and bring my friend wanderingjew a double order of Waffle House hash browns, scattered, smothered, & peppered...


    How about doubling the hash brown order. They are my favorite.

    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN
    #16
    mayor al
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/15 14:24:29 (permalink)
    Since Bushie is Buying, I'll have the 44oz Root Beer, and in place of the hash browns how about the 2 lb Porterhouse (medium rare, please) and a Macademia Nut Waffle.Chain,Schmain...Let's Eat !
    #17
    Sundancer7
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/15 14:35:43 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Al-The Mayor-Bowen

    Since Bushie is Buying, I'll have the 44oz Root Beer, and in place of the hash browns how about the 2 lb Porterhouse (medium rare, please) and a Macademia Nut Waffle.
    Chain,Schmain...Let's Eat !


    Where are the macademia nut waffle's at?

    I hope Bushie has lotsa yemon (money spelled backwards). He is coming through Knoxville and we ain't gonna do the Waffle House.

    I had not thought about the combo Porterhouse and waffle.

    Bushie, just kidding

    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN
    #18
    Bushie
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/15 18:12:46 (permalink)
    Bartender! Hold that order!! Geez, I forgot who I was ordering for...
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    wanderingjew
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 08:23:25 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Sundancer7

    The only way a FFR will ever put the smaller establishments out of business is if and only if they have a superior product.

    In my opinion the statement indicating that in 10-15 years, the smaller establishments will be put out of business is not a valid point.


    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN


    Paul,

    I conducted an experiment recently. I found some old telephone directories at a couple of libraries. I compared the number of restaurant chains vs mom and pop places then and now. These telephone directories were all 10-15 years old. The chains have increased by at least 50% and the mom and pop places decreased by half. You might want consider running your own test to see if my points are validated. You even indicated previously that when you travel, you can only find chains in the immediate area. I believe you've been around alot longer than myself and I am sure that you wouldn't have run into the same problem say 20 or 30 years back.

    True, we do have choices of where to go, but if you, I and a few select others support the mom and pops and the other 97% support MCTGIAPPLEBENNIKING then I think we know who is going to win out
    #20
    Cosmos
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 13:06:33 (permalink)
    I often wonder if people eat at FFR's becaues they like it, or because they're told they like it.

    I haven't figured out how to quotes somebody on this site yet, but re: the quote from sundancer above...you can't seriously believe smaller establishments are run out of business because they have inferior product.... What they have is an inferior marketing department, and research and development lab.
    #21
    EliseT
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 13:18:33 (permalink)
    This is a website dedicated to the enjoyment of ribs, burgers, fried chicken and grease and mayo-laden sides. We call macaroni and cheese a vegetable. I'm afraid the question, "Why do people continue eating food that is dangerous to their health?" just makes us giggle. As for evil corporate hi-jinks, check out www.michaelmoore.com and rent TV NATION and THE AWFUL TRUTH. That is his personal battlefield.

    "It's a well-known fact that Colonel Sanders puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes you crave it fortnightly" -Mike Myers in So I Married and Axe-murderer
    #22
    wanderingjew
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 13:46:47 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Bushie

    Yes, I have a few comments and questions.

    While I don't intend to be as hateful in my comments as wanderingjerk, I can't remain silent on this any longer.




    Is this really necessary? Even if you think my comments are hateful (they are not, I am just trying to make a point without forcing my opinions on anyone)Aren't we allowed to voice our opinions? I haven't trashed you or anyone else on this forum!
    #23
    Bushie
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 14:41:05 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Cosmos

    I haven't figured out how to quotes somebody on this site yet, but ...


    Cosmos, to reply to a quote, just press the little "page with the curved arrow" thingy right above the post to which you want to reply. From there, you can edit or add any comments you want; just keep your new comments outside of the existing quote so they will appear separate as you see here.

    Happy Posting!
    #24
    RubyRose
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 14:49:03 (permalink)
    The day the federal govt. declared that ketchup and pickle slices could be classified as vegetables for school lunches, I knew it was gonna go downhill from there.
    #25
    Sundancer7
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 15:19:10 (permalink)
    Just because the telephone book indicates that fast food restaurants have increased by a certain % only reflects that there are more of them now. They have grown because the population has grown, a larger percentage of women now work, men are working two jobs, more kids are working, people have less leisure time and somebody has to take up the slack to feed the people quick.

    The larger restaurants do that.

    Wanderingjew indicated that the smaller establishments lack funding to promote their product when they have product. I am sure that is correct. Everyone that gets into business does not make it even if their product is one of the best. That applies to all industries.

    As I indicated in another post. All chains start with one. If they got all the ingredients such as good product, good service, good financing, good management, extremely good luck and God's blessing, they MIGHT just make it. Do you think McD's started with 10,000 locations, Do you think Wendy's started with 5,000 locations and on down the line. No, they started with one and they continued to get better until they got worse. The peter Principal went into effect. Back when I first tried McD's in 1960. I thought everything they had was the best I ever had. That was then and now is now. We all know what happened.

    Being a chain is not bad, unfortunately maintaining a stock price and margins causes boardroom pressure which manifest itself into lower quality.

    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN

    #26
    Cosmos
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 17:51:09 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Bushie


    Cosmos, to reply to a quote, just press the little "page with the curved arrow" thingy right above the post to which you want to reply.


    Thanks, Bushie, I didn't realize you could edit the previous content.
    #27
    RubyRose
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 19:32:17 (permalink)
    I was just looking at some menus on ebay today and saw one for Woolworth’s lunch counter. It made me wonder what’s so different about them and the fast food chains of today? When I was in grade school, my best friend’s mom managed the one in our town and they precooked the bacon for the club sandwiches, used frozen foods, and even instructed the stores in what color balloons should get the cheap prices for the banana split festival (white ones).

    And the part I really liked was that the hot turkey sandwich tasted just the same at my town’s Woolworth’s as at the one in my cousin’s town. So guess I grew up eating fast food after all.
    #28
    pennypincher
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    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 21:37:08 (permalink)
    I have avoided Michey D's for 20-25 years or so. But recently the only place where I could
    acquire a decent cup of coffee on road trips was McDonalds, except for the occasional Starbucks which are not that easy to find on the road (except on I-70 west of Denver, where there is signage indicating Starbucks at about 4 exits). I avoid convenience stores when it comes to coffee like the plague.

    McDonalds breakfast Sausage/Egg McMuffin and their chicken McNuggets ain't too bad at all.
    Haven't tried anything else on their menu for years as indicated above.

    IMHO, McDonalds has improved.
    #29
    CCJPO
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    • Joined: 2003/04/20 01:09:00
    • Location: Fallon, NV
    • Status: offline
    RE: FAST FOOD and US 2003/06/16 21:52:13 (permalink)
    Personally I liked "Adjudicator's" comments, question or statement. We are a society of questions. I have been involved in law enforcement,the correctional system and now the judiciary for over 30 years. in addition studied journalism, the criminal justice system as well as being a Marine before all of the above. Then studied law. I have also taught in high schools, community colleges, universities and judicial college. The questions posed were, at least I think they were, legitimate from the perspective of an inquiry as to peoples opinions
    as the basic tenets of all good queries, that being who,what where, when, how, and although why isn't necessarily a basis of fact, it can be part of the equation. We should all strive to have people THINK If truth be told I am still waiting for the blonde to drop into the front seat of the Dodge Challenger convertible I bought new in 1974. Although I knew it was corporate hype, I could still wish. By the way my wife has black hair, and looks really great in my 30 year old Challenger.

    While I will not assume what "Adudicators" motive is, as to assume, as the old adage states makes an a** out of you and me. Perhaps it is nothing more then to get some intelligent dialogue from the people as to their opinions. And opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one, but they still have one, whether or not one agrees with everyone elses. But I do believe that no one should be rude when they disagree. This is all theater, and after the play is done the participants should be able to go out and have a beer or a root beer or a waffle, or whatever, with out any feelings of acrimony.

    Hell, as far as FFR restaurants go, I knew that when Mickey D's came to my community 20 plus years ago it would change the comlextion of the community. It did, and not for the asthetically better, however it did raise our tax base, as people from the surrounding areas - that being people who were and are 100 mile or more from a town of any size, came to shop at the new Walmart, Autozone, Safeway, KFC, Arbys, Pizza Hut,etc. Did it make a better community? Not necessarily. Did it provide more jobs, taxes, services, of course. Did the community lose some of its identity? Of course. Now we are spending tax dollars to in order to draw tourists to our farmers market, rodeos, old time festivals, etc., in order to have people experience a small, western high desert town. A manufactured experience, but an experience never the less. Hell if it wasn't for some of the events some of the residents, especially the kids would never get to touch or feed a calf or a foal. They would never see quail or pheasants, or a deer. We have seen a depletion of our deer, wild horse, quail, mountain lion, pheasant, grouse, sage hen, chukar, etc, populations. All in the name of progress.

    I know this is long winded, however the questions posed were legitimate. How much are we willing to give up. Are we going to be consumed by corporate america. I don't know the answer, and don't claim to know it. I do know that if we can't ask the questions without being ridiculed then we have lost the battle. And that is not right. Nor is our way of life

    There are many threads in this site, most of which are dedicated to the premise of food, good food, not FFR, which in my opinion are not worthy of patronizing so I don't. Although my youngest son works at KFC, which I am pleased with, as he does a good job, he doesn't like the food though, as we eat at home most nights around the dinner table. A practice which I hope both he and his older brother carry on when they finally detach themselves from the famial umbilical cord. As stated previously in this paragraph, there are many threads in this site. And while most of them should be goal directed. There also needs to be room for something more serious then where to gt the best hotdog. ENJOY I did have a great chicken fried steak for Fathers Day, my eldest treated us at my favorite mom and pop restaurant, with a double helping of real mashed potatoes, extra gravy, green beans, sliced tomatoes, butter rolls, a couple of Dos Equis, double frosted chocolate cake and a big glass of ice cold milk. Or as I affectionatly call it "Heart Attack on a Plate." It was great.
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