Fresh Ground pepper

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BBQ Barney
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2005/03/08 21:04:14 (permalink)

Fresh Ground pepper

Todays question--- I'm sorry, but can I taste the difference between several ground peppers (green peppercorns, red, black, etc), or between any ground versus pepper out of the shaker???? My answer is ground is always better, but some ground pepper is better than others. But which is the question???

#1

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    Stephen Rushmore Jr.
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/08 21:09:53 (permalink)
    fresh ground versus pepper out of the shaker
    #2
    BBQ Barney
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/08 21:15:26 (permalink)
    Sorry, my editing background couldn't accept "in" ground pepper versus between fresh ground and previously ground!
    #3
    SouthHillbilly
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/08 22:03:50 (permalink)
    I can't decide which type of pepper is best, so I usually cook using a grinder that contains a mixture of blk, red, green and white peppercorns.
    #4
    BT
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/08 22:40:58 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by SouthHillbilly

    I can't decide which type of pepper is best, so I usually cook using a grinder that contains a mixture of blk, red, green and white peppercorns.


    Well you are in good company. Paul Prudhomme uses a combination of black/red/white in nearly all his recipes.
    #5
    hefried
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/09 00:40:23 (permalink)
    oh SURE, i can taste a difference between FRESH GROUND anything and NOT fresh ground (ie: previously ground) anything... It's just sharper and more flavourful. If you "need" that (flavour/freshness)in your cooking then use FRESH..... Sometimes, i just use a pre mixed (by me) kosher salt and coarse ground black pepper mix, when "totally fresh" ground black pepper wouldn't really make a difference.
    #6
    Rick F.
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/09 01:11:20 (permalink)
    Always freshly ground: there really is a huge flavor difference. And order your pepper from an herb & spice specialty shop: once again, there are big flavor differences. (We use Penzey's extra bold, http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-bin/penzeys/p-penzeyspeppercorns.html.)
    #7
    seafarer john
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/09 10:44:39 (permalink)
    I dont know what "fresh ground red pepper" is. Are some of you guys grinding up little bits of chilis or freshly grinding those red pepper flakes?

    As to black pepper, we usually fresh grind it using Penzy's Telicherry black pepper corns.

    When using white pepper we usually fresh grind it into a dish, but we also keep a stock of pre ground (pre ground and sifted by us) white pepper handy.

    We also keep a jar of pre ground black pepper and coriander mixed for seasoning stews and roasts and some fish dishes. The mix is approximately 90% pepper to 10% coriander- it is supposd to be an old French chef's trick - I think we learned it at the CIA.

    Fresh ground is a whole lot cheaper when the berries are purchased from Penzy's than the pre ground stuff at the Super Market.

    Cheers, John
    #8
    carlton pierre
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/09 11:03:39 (permalink)
    I can tell a huge difference btween fresh ground pepper and pepper from a shaker. I cook with fresh ground and I actually prefer it to salt. The mixture of various kinds of pepper s is the best IMO.
    #9
    BT
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/09 17:42:35 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by seafarer john

    I dont know what "fresh ground red pepper" is. Are some of you guys grinding up little bits of chilis or freshly grinding those red pepper flakes?

    Cheers, John


    Absolutely. I buy small dried red Thai "bird" chiles (in Asian markets) or Chiles Japones (in Mexican markets) and grind them in a small coffee grinder (also useful for grinding many other fresh spices).
    #10
    seafarer john
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/09 17:55:49 (permalink)
    We grind our whole spices in a little Krups coffee grinder - works great, but it never occured to me to buy dried chilis and grind them. We use so little hot pepper in our cooking - just a little pinch seems to do it for us , so I dont think grinding chilis is in our future.

    All of this raises a question about "hot" foods. When we were in New Mexico a few years ago I greatly enjoyed a variety of chili dishes. What I remember was the fresh clean clear taste of the dishes as compared with what passes for chili here in the Northeast - a sort of muddy indistinct flavor. I wonder now if the stuff tastes so much better in New Mexico because they fresh grind their peppers?

    Cheers, John
    #11
    lleechef
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/09 18:33:57 (permalink)
    I have a great copper peppermill from Turkey that I use for black pepper. Green peppercorns I just smash with my santoku knife. I rarely use pink peppercorns. White pepper is a must on white fish.....how could anyone put black specks on WHITE fish or scallops?
    #12
    BakersBoy
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/09 18:35:35 (permalink)
    John,

    I think that it absolutely makes a difference. I believe with pepper, chilies, cheese or anything else. As you known the freshest the better. We also use a Krups Coffee with our spices which we grow at home. I've been detailed in New Mexico for a couple of months in Soccoro and Albequerque. The intensity of the flavor of the food is much more intense. I wish I could get that flavor back in Maryland.

    I think it is the difference between grating your own Parmesian or buying that little green can. Pepper, cheese, spices or chili; it's better if you do it yourself.

    BB
    #13
    BT
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/09 19:34:48 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by BakersBoy

    John,

    I think it is the difference between grating your own Parmesian or buying that little green can. Pepper, cheese, spices or chili; it's better if you do it yourself.

    BB


    I know it's off-topic but I gotta say the "green can" stuff is abominable, but even among "grate your own" cheeses there is a HUGE difference. I go to CostCo (or sometimes Trader Joe's though they are more expensive) and get real Parmesano Reggiano in a chunk. But CostCo also sells Grana Pedano (a "Parmesan" style cheese that isn't from Parma and so, in Italy, can't call itself "Parmesan") that is far superior to domestic "Parmesan", but much cheaper. Either way, I "grate" it in my food processor. Having done this for years, I could never go back to "the green can".
    #14
    Rick F.
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/10 01:22:07 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by BT
    But CostCo also sells Grana Pedano (a "Parmesan" style cheese that isn't from Parma and so, in Italy, can't call itself "Parmesan") that is far superior to domestic "Parmesan", but much cheaper.
    Interesting. Living as I do in the hinterlands, I have read of but not tasted Grana Pedano. Cook's Illustrated's site compared the PR & GP and concluded that the GP wasn't good at all. Now I guess I'll have to track some down!
    #15
    Danmel
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/10 08:55:28 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by BT

    quote:
    Originally posted by BakersBoy

    John,

    I think it is the difference between grating your own Parmesian or buying that little green can. Pepper, cheese, spices or chili; it's better if you do it yourself.

    BB


    I know it's off-topic but I gotta say the "green can" stuff is abominable, but even among "grate your own" cheeses there is a HUGE difference. I go to CostCo (or sometimes Trader Joe's though they are more expensive) and get real Parmesano Reggiano in a chunk. But CostCo also sells Grana Pedano (a "Parmesan" style cheese that isn't from Parma and so, in Italy, can't call itself "Parmesan") that is far superior to domestic "Parmesan", but much cheaper. Either way, I "grate" it in my food processor. Having done this for years, I could never go back to "the green can".


    The "green can" stuff is so vile! I always grate my romano and parm the day I'm going to use it- I use a microplane- it's nice andfine and melts when it hits the hot pasta. If I want shaving,s I use a box grater. Great stuff.

    Also fresh ground nutmeg is vastly superior to powdered.
    #16
    SouthHillbilly
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/10 09:35:07 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by seafarer john


    All of this raises a question about "hot" foods. When we were in New Mexico a few years ago I greatly enjoyed a variety of chili dishes. What I remember was the fresh clean clear taste of the dishes as compared with what passes for chili here in the Northeast - a sort of muddy indistinct flavor. I wonder now if the stuff tastes so much better in New Mexico because they fresh grind their peppers?

    Cheers, John


    I don't know about NM, but in Mexico, they do not smother their chili con carne in tomato sauce like we tend to do here in the USA.
    Mexicans are fantastic sauce makers, from traditional salsas, to moles to chili sauces for cooking. . . the French have nothing on them. That is reflected in everything they cook.
    #17
    BT
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/10 11:56:06 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by SouthHillbilly



    I don't know about NM, but in Mexico, they do not smother their chili con carne in tomato sauce like we tend to do here in the USA.
    Mexicans are fantastic sauce makers, from traditional salsas, to moles to chili sauces for cooking. . . the French have nothing on them. That is reflected in everything they cook.


    In general, in the Southwest (as in Mexico), chile sauces and tomato sauces are different things and chile sauces don't usually have tomato in them.
    #18
    dbear
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/10 12:46:06 (permalink)

    Fresh ground/grated, pepper, cheese and coffee. Like others here, I get most of my whole peppercorns from Penzey's. I think I've tried all of their varieties and they are all good. The pink stuff, which I like mixed or by itself, is not technically a peppercorn, rather it is a dried berry from Reunion Island in the Indian Ocean. Very interesting flavor. White peppercorns are usually available in bulk at Asian markets and very inexpensive. I also mix chile's into the grinder sometimes. I have a friend in Texas who sends me dried pequin's the little flame throwers from the Southwest; they go into a grinder perfectly and are HOT.

    One thing I don't do is grind salt; just never started. I'd be curious if anyone does, and if so is there a real taste difference, or is it just more coarse?

    db
    #19
    seafarer john
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/10 17:52:44 (permalink)
    The taste of salt does not deteriorate on the shelf - there's no reason to grind it yourself unless you desire a particular degree of coarsness/fineness, for whatever reason, than is readily available in the market.

    Cheers, John
    #20
    nvb
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/10 18:19:27 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by dbear

    One thing I don't do is grind salt; just never started. I'd be curious if anyone does, and if so is there a real taste difference, or is it just more coarse?


    I started grinding it when I first bought sea salt and am now grinding it with Kosher. Only at home, though. And like John said, only because I don't like it coarse.
    #21
    forestfirefighter
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/14 17:53:01 (permalink)
    Am I the only one that wishes restraunts would tone it down a bit with the pepper grinders ? I loved fresh ground too, but it seems so many restraunts have boughten into the idea that the pepper grinding ceremony is some piece of marketing that they have taken it too far. I don't need some teenager trying to act like Sean Connery with some aborted accent making a scene about asking me if I want pepper or not, and it really does not need to come from a grinder that is equivelent in size to a Louisville slugger......
    #22
    seafarer john
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/14 18:08:07 (permalink)
    Years ago, in a pretentiously upscale restaurant in a motel near Poughkeepsie, NY, my wife and I were startled and slightly flummoxed when our teenage waiter, brandishing an enormouse pepper grinder , offered us "seasoned pepper"....

    Cheers, John
    #23
    seafarer john
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/14 18:23:08 (permalink)
    Just remembered another "pepper" story - one I heard related at the Munson Institute, Mystic Ct, by Ruth Ropes, a descendent of the subject of the story, and at that time a librarian at Mystic Seaport.

    About 1790, a trading ship out of Salem , MA had loaded a cargo of spices, tea, and other products from India and was on its passage home when Captain Enoch Ropes suddenly died at sea. The crew, following his often stated reluctance to be buried at sea, preferring burial in his family graveyard in Salem, had to find a means to preserve his body.

    The ships carpenter constructed a handsome coffin of teakwood and Captain Ropes was placed in the coffin and tightly packed all around with peppercorns.

    When the ship arrived many months later back in Salem, the coffin was opened and according to eyewitnesses, "There lay old Enoch Ropes, a little dusky and a little dusty and smelling fresh and spicey as the cargo of his great ship". It is said that the coffin was sealed together with its entire contents and to this day he lies buried in his bed of Indian peppercorns.

    Cheers, John
    #24
    EdSails
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    RE: Fresh Ground pepper 2005/03/14 20:36:51 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by SouthHillbilly

    I can't decide which type of pepper is best, so I usually cook using a grinder that contains a mixture of blk, red, green and white peppercorns.


    I have been buying the mix of peppercorns too like that. Can't really tell a difference tastewise, but my clear grinder with the multicolored peppercorns always gets comments!
    #25
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