Global Warming Debate

I get so tired of hearing the anti-capitalist mantra, which is all the global warming crap is. Ever since the Soviet Union died, the socialists needed a cause to go up against free market capitalism and they jumped on the environmental-whacko bandwagon.

Amen Brother! Amen!! AMEN!!!

Sizz: That's a 1988 report based on data collected in the years before that year.
In short, it is using data over 20 years old - more up to date data tell a different story of a warming atmosphere on earth.

We can either bury our heads in the sand or devote our plentiful resources to finding ways to best deal with the climate change that is, by now, inevitable.

Mack 184:It seems to this socialist that the worst enemies of capitalism have been recent leaders of Enron, Exxon (Prince William sound) the fast food industry (tainted lettuce), the pet food industry (rat poison), financial institutions making "sub-prime" mortgages, bankrupt hedge funds, dot com promoters (the great bust of 1999), bankrupt airlines, backdaters of stock options, bloated pay to managers, and environmental destruction (decapitated mountains in West Virginia. Need I go on ?

Cheers, John

Sizz: That's a 1988 report based on data collected in the years before that year.
In short, it is using data over 20 years old - more up to date data tell a different story of a warming atmosphere on earth.

We can either bury our heads in the sand or devote our plentiful resources to finding ways to best deal with the climate change that is, by now, inevitable.

Mack 184:It seems to this socialist that the worst enemies of capitalism have been recent leaders of Enron, Exxon (Prince William sound) the fast food industry (tainted lettuce), the pet food industry (rat poison), financial institutions making "sub-prime" mortgages, bankrupt hedge funds, dot com promoters (the great bust of 1999), bankrupt airlines, backdaters of stock options, bloated pay to managers, and environmental destruction (decapitated mountains in West Virginia. Need I go on ?

Cheers, John

I cannot verify this but you can take it or leave it.

A TALE OF TWO HOUSES:



Some can talk the talk but don't bother to walk the walk.



House 1

The four-bedroom home was planned so that "every room has a relationship with something in the landscape that's different from the room next door. Each of the rooms feels like a slightly different place." The resulting single-story house is
a paragon of environmental planning.

The passive-solar house is built of honey-colored native limestone and positioned to absorb winter sunlight, warming the interior walkways and walls of the 4,000-square-foot residence. Geothermal heat pumps circulate water through pipes buried 300
feet deep in the ground.



These waters pass through a heat exchange system that keeps the home warm in winter and cool in summer. A 25,000-gallon underground cistern collects rainwater
gathered from roof urns; wastewater from sinks, toilets, and showers cascades into underground purifying tanks and is also funneled into the cistern.



The water from the cistern is then used to irrigate the landscaping around the four-bedroom home, (which) uses indigenous grasses, shrubs, and flowers to complete the exterior treatment of the home. In addition to its minimal environmental impact, the look and layout of the house reflect one of the paramount priorities: relaxation.



A spacious 10-foot porch wraps completely around the residence and beckons the family outdoors. With few hallways to speak of, family and guests make their way from room to room either directly or by way of the porch. "The house doesn't hold you in. Where the porch ends, there is grass. There is no step-up at all."



This house consumes 25% of the energy of an average American home. (Source: Cowboys and Indians Magazine, Oct. 2002 and Chicago Tribune April 2001.)

House 2

This 20-room, 8-bathroom house consumes more electricity every month than the average American household uses in an entire year. The average household in America consumes 10,656 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, according to the Department of Energy.



In 2006, this house devoured nearly 221,000 kWh, more than 20 times the national average. Last August alone, the house burned through 22,619 kWh, guzzling more than twice the electricity in one month than an average American family uses in an entire year.



As a result of this energy consumption, the average monthly electric bill topped $1,359. Also, natural gas bills for this house and guest house averaged $1,080 per month last year. In total, this house had nearly $30,000 in combined electricity and natural gas bills for 2006.



(Source: just about anywhere in the news last month online and on talk radio, but barely on TV.)


*

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*

*

V




House 1 belongs to George and Laura Bush, in Crawford, Texas.

House 2 belongs to Al and Tipper Gore, in Nashville,Tennessee.





ANY QUESTIONS?

Paul E. Smith
Knoxville, TN

I still urge you all to read "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton.

I have yet to read a convincing argument that proves Humans are the cause of the MINOR warming we are currently experiencing, or that this slight change in temperature is a bad thing.

Should we, as humans continue to strive to "clean up our world?" Of course.

Are we all going to perish unless the US signs Kyoto or some similarly economically harmful treaty? Absolutely not.

just wondering--has ANYONE here actually said we should sign the Kyoto treaty in their arguement?

quote:

Originally posted by seafarer john


We can either bury our heads in the sand or devote our plentiful resources to finding ways to best deal with the climate change that is, by now, inevitable.

What I would like, Sir John, is to rely on scientific evidence instead of political rhetoric. I think it would be good to look at "both" (or all) sides of scientific evidence.

quote:

Originally posted by tiki

just wondering--has ANYONE here actually said we should sign the Kyoto treaty in their arguement?

Why should we? Anyone knows the UN-backed Kyoto pact is an anti-capitalist screed directed (literally) at the US. If it were as it purports, then the UN would be after China and India to endorse it - they both produce more pollution than the US. Why is it only the US gets bashed for not signing? Even Clinton decided not to sign this.

quote:

Originally posted by seafarer john

Sizz: That's a 1988 report based on data collected in the years before that year.
In short, it is using data over 20 years old - more up to date data tell a different story of a warming atmosphere on earth.

We can either bury our heads in the sand or devote our plentiful resources to finding ways to best deal with the climate change that is, by now, inevitable.

Mack 184:It seems to this socialist that the worst enemies of capitalism have been recent leaders of Enron, Exxon (Prince William sound) the fast food industry (tainted lettuce), the pet food industry (rat poison), financial institutions making "sub-prime" mortgages, bankrupt hedge funds, dot com promoters (the great bust of 1999), bankrupt airlines, backdaters of stock options, bloated pay to managers, and environmental destruction (decapitated mountains in West Virginia. Need I go on ?

Cheers, John

Cheers to you comrade!

I salute George and Laura Bush for building such an enviro-friendly house. I can't wait for them to take the opportunity to retire to that lovely house.

Cheers, John

quote:

Originally posted by seafarer john

I salute George and Laura Bush for building such an enviro-friendly house. I can't wait for them to take the opportunity to retire to that lovely house.

Cheers, John

Then where will the liberals direct all of their hate? They must have an outlet for it or they'll explode!

Wouldn't it be great if they would actually direct it towards the ENEMIES of our country for a change? Radical Islam would be a nice start. Everyone knows this is the true sickness on our planet. We can deal with it now or pay a much bigger price later.



I'm going to steal a couple great lines from the past:

No science is immune to the infection of politics and the corruption of power. - Jacob Bronowski

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. - Ronald Reagan


Do not blindly trust your politicians. They are nearly always only interested in what is best for themselves.

Look hard enough at every cause they champion, and you will find a selfish interest that benefits them. The Gore/Generation Investment Management connection stated above is a classic example. There are thousands more on both sides of the isle.

quote:

Originally posted by desertdog

quote:

Originally posted by seafarer john

I salute George and Laura Bush for building such an enviro-friendly house. I can't wait for them to take the opportunity to retire to that lovely house.

Cheers, John

Do not blindly trust your politicians. They are nearly always only interested in what is best for themselves.

sounds EXACTLY like what every left winger i ever met has been saying since 1964!

Hello All,
Folks, liberals and conservatives can be caring about the earth. They, also, can be destroyers of it.
They can be ignorant, and just choose to support a member of their side to defend or support just simply
because they think they must.
This isn't a political party thing.
My grandfather hated FDR and was a loyal Republican. He had a general store and was also a farmer. He
loved the earth, worked the earth, and knew it. He hated the store. His passion was farming. His love
for the earth and how he could work with it gave him wisdom. He used folk lore and science to not harm
his land. He wouldn't use chemicals, and this was in the 1930's -1970's. Other farmers prospered a little
more than he, but... He liked bats as natural combatants of bugs, but when other farmers used chemicals that
killed bats, his bats were gone. That's not my point. Sorry.
I am a liberal democrat in my area, and would be considered a conservative
in other areas of the country. But this isn't a political party thing.
My belief is that we are stewards of the earth.
We have a faith-based concept of our relationship with the earth.
We have an evolving science-based concept of our relationship with earth.
We will be unsure of what is the best way for a time.
For future generations, we need to use our best science and be pure to all faiths
that Love and Care about those that will follow us and this Good earth that sustains us.
I really don't understand how we can play Russian Roulette with the Earth and future generations.
We are being dishonest with ourselves, for many reasons on both sides of the argument.
And the problems, whether big or small, are not being solved.
I miss the sounds of the Bob-Whites that I heard in my youth. There are no fish in the creek
bordering my land that I used to fish in my youth. I have asthma now, something I never had for forty years
of my life. Maybe it's just change and the way of life.
I don't know. But my area of the country has grown and went nutty as far as developing. I don't miss
the old days of non-progress. I just think we could be wiser, most caring and responsible.
Responsible...stewardship...did we learn the meaning of those words. Are we able to teach the
meaning and reality of those words to our children?
Do we want to?
Take Care,
Fieldthistle

quote:

Originally posted by seafarer john

I can't wait for them to take the opportunity to retire to that lovely house.

John, besides mustard on hot dogs, I've finally found something else with which I can agree with you. And, you say you don't believe in miracles...

quote:

Originally posted by Tedbear

quote:

Originally posted by Bushie

quote:

Originally posted by Davydd


My other pet peeve is ethanol. It to me is a political and economic boondoggle.

Ditto.

At last Bushie & I are in total agreement on something!

Not only is ethanol (at least as currently structured in the US) a massive political and economic boondoggle, but it is an excellent example of how politicians of both parties will prostitute themselves for votes from Iowa and other states that benefit from this boondoggle. Using a food product like corn for ethanol production will only serve to raise the price of this food source to an unconscionable level and could actually lead to food shortages in the less-affluent areas of the world.

If ethanol production was based on non-food products or from waste products (from prairie grass, or sawmill waste, or ...?) then perhaps it would make some sense. As it is, the use of corn for fuel production reminds me of that scene from Around The World in 80 Days where the wooden superstructure of the ship was torn apart and used to fuel the boilers of the steamship after they ran out of coal. Yes, you can keep the engine running--but at what cost?

Another miracle! I agree with Tedbear!

This is all really weird...

No one wants to hurt the environment, but what is becoming more and more apparent is that the work of Global Warming enthusiasts is a multi-billion dollar business and as the movie "The Great Global Warming Swindle" indicated (which for some strange reason -- $$$$$ -- is not shown by the MSM in the U.S.), literally tens of thousands of jobs are at stake if public acceptance of the global warming crisis dwindles. So are we to believe those who have such a huge financial stake in the issue? (Not to mention the questionable "characters" promoting its acceptance.)

Here is a brief but excellent article just posted today at http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams032807.php3. The author empahatically states that " . . . the bottom line is, the bulk of scientific evidence shows that what we've been told by environmentalists is pure bunk" and has alot of good reasons to think so. I know it's not politically correct to think like that, but all should look at both sides of the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Fieldthistle

Hello All,
Folks, liberals and conservatives can be caring about the earth. They, also, can be destroyers of it.
They can be ignorant, and just choose to support a member of their side to defend or support just simply
because they think they must.
This isn't a political party thing.
My grandfather hated FDR and was a loyal Republican. He had a general store and was also a farmer. He
loved the earth, worked the earth, and knew it. He hated the store. His passion was farming. His love
for the earth and how he could work with it gave him wisdom. He used folk lore and science to not harm
his land. He wouldn't use chemicals, and this was in the 1930's -1970's. Other farmers prospered a little
more than he, but... He liked bats as natural combatants of bugs, but when other farmers used chemicals that
killed bats, his bats were gone. That's not my point. Sorry.
I am a liberal democrat in my area, and would be considered a conservative
in other areas of the country. But this isn't a political party thing.
My belief is that we are stewards of the earth.
We have a faith-based concept of our relationship with the earth.
We have an evolving science-based concept of our relationship with earth.
We will be unsure of what is the best way for a time.
For future generations, we need to use our best science and be pure to all faiths
that Love and Care about those that will follow us and this Good earth that sustains us.
I really don't understand how we can play Russian Roulette with the Earth and future generations.
We are being dishonest with ourselves, for many reasons on both sides of the argument.
And the problems, whether big or small, are not being solved.
I miss the sounds of the Bob-Whites that I heard in my youth. There are no fish in the creek
bordering my land that I used to fish in my youth. I have asthma now, something I never had for forty years
of my life. Maybe it's just change and the way of life.
I don't know. But my area of the country has grown and went nutty as far as developing. I don't miss
the old days of non-progress. I just think we could be wiser, most caring and responsible.
Responsible...stewardship...did we learn the meaning of those words. Are we able to teach the
meaning and reality of those words to our children?
Do we want to?
Take Care,
Fieldthistle

Well said or typed..whatever. I moved from the city to a farm five or so years ago and raise most of our food. I want that control. Our ag structure is so screwed up that hens have had sitting on eggs bred out of them. I have one hen that will sit a nest.

I would like to have met your Grandfather.

Bushie: You and I have always agreed on ther important things in life: the curative values in a good whiskey, and the pleasures of BBQ.

cheers, John