Ham Sandwich Now a Hate Crime?

Ham sandwiches are now a hate crime...

http://www.sunjournal.com/story/208385-3/LewistonAuburn/Hate_incident_in_city/

First of all, it wasn't a sandwich. It wasn't some kid sitting there eating a sandwich. It was a deliberate act of ugly childhood behavior, that I'm sure he learned somewhere...say home? That kid knew that they thought pork was unclean and threw just a piece of pork in front of only students who don't touch it, not for a joke, but because he thought being mean was funny. It's not.

I'm not a super sensitive person when it comes to stuff like religion but that was wrong. And remember, the whole world is not one certain religion and many other faiths don't touch pork. But I bet if it were turned onto the one who did the trick they'd still find a way to make it about the boys in the story, which is wrong too.

Shoot, I hate this laptop. I hit buttons on it and erase things all the time

What I had added was that it wasn't the pork...it was the act. News always try to make something seem what it's not. A better title would have been, stupid child pulls stupid prank, gets a lesson in respecting their fellow students. Guess that's too long though.

There ain't a lot of respect for much these days huh?

A "stupid child" would have never pulled this "stupid prank" unless some['stupid' adult] taught the child about bigotry. Secondary to my concern about animal welfare, this topic really shows me that idiots abound worldwide.

BhamBabe, you are right but this story gets its ugly twists, and from adults, Adjudicator. Follow it around on the internet and you will see. I suspect this one will be blogged to death by the political bloggers. The above post was the original story as far as I can tell. It is getting more bizarre in the opinions.

Well, my opinion will be based solely on what I just read and so... first of all, I'm actually quite surprised that someone as young as a middle schooler even knew that Muslims don't eat pork. I mean, I definitely didn't know stuff like that (of course I grew up Baptist in a small town that was 97% Catholic)when I was in middle school. Secondly, having known that fact, it was very disrespectful to those students. I feel terrible for those Muslims that are given a bad name by terrorists who ruin everyone's idea of Islam. He definitely had to have learned that from an adult. Now, if I come across this story later with more of its twists, then I can either post another or opinion==or not.

Y'all are missing the point. It was a stupid child prank. And that's ALL it was, a stupid child prank.



This crap is only going to get worse unless people wake up.

I hate green peas, thererfore, peas are against "my" religion. If anyone of you mentions green peas in this forum, you have committed a hate crime and I'll have the ACLU after you along with the liberal "thought" police. Govern yourselves accordingly. My attorney's firm is Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe.

quote:

Originally posted by Bushie

Y'all are missing the point. It was a stupid child prank. And that's ALL it was, a stupid child prank.

Liberalism has turned our society into a police state where a stupid child prank is now being considered a hate crime. All in the name of "tolerance".

This crap is only going to get worse unless people wake up.

It has nothing to do with liberalism. This was more than a "Stupid child prank". A stupid child prank is putting a tack on someones seat, hanging a sign that says "kick me" on their back or putting pencil shavings on their microscope eyepiece. This goes beyond that. What hope is there for the future if the generations that are going to lead it are already being taught to hate each other because they are different. Someone taught this kid that pork was offencive to these students because a kid in middle school is too buisy hiding under the bleachers trying to sneak a peek to figure it out on his own.

joe

A middle school child committed a very bad act. If he had sprayed kike across a synagogue wall, or the n-word in the gym locker room, it would have been exactly the same thing. A little sensitivity training is in order for the kid and for the thoughless people who seem to think that attacks on minority groups are simply pranks. As one whose child is a potential target of such " light hearted " jokes, I find such thoughts worrisome.

A note of personal privlige because I realize I may hurt some other's feelings. I'm a Jew who does not keep kosher but the kid's prank is eerily similiar to actions against Jews in similiar historical contexts and it frightens me that Somali kids are being attacked for all the same reasons Jews used to be attacked(for being different) . The issue is kind of personal to me. Trudy's work with Head Start has put me in contact with many members of Portland"s Somali community and I know the pain and shame they would feel if such an awful thing happened to their children

quote:

Originally posted by mr chips

A middle school child committed a very bad act. If he had sprayed kike across a synagogue wall, or the n-word in the gym locker room, it would have been exactly the same thing. A little sensitivity training is in order for the kid and for the thoughless people who seem to think that attacks on minority groups are simply pranks. As one whose child is a potential target of such " light hearted " jokes, I find such thoughts worrisome.

There is no question that the child should be disciplined. But to bring formal "hate crime" charges against the kid only proves the level of idiocy to which "adults" in this society have descended.

Child's prank??? Texianjoe has it right. A child's prank is putting vaseline on a doorknob or sticking out your foot to trip someone. I think what we are all arguing about is the fact that it was considered a "hate crime". It's such a harsh term and we'd rather call it an "insensitive child's prank". All in all, these kids knew pork is totally offensive to them and you know Muslims, they take their religion VERY seriously just like some Jews take their religion and its practices seriously.
oh and i like to consider myself middle of the road, not too conservative and not too liberal. I think it has nothing to do with this but I thought I'd point it out since it's been mentioned.

quote:

Originally posted by Bushie

quote:

Originally posted by mr chips

A middle school child committed a very bad act. If he had sprayed kike across a synagogue wall, or the n-word in the gym locker room, it would have been exactly the same thing. A little sensitivity training is in order for the kid and for the thoughless people who seem to think that attacks on minority groups are simply pranks. As one whose child is a potential target of such " light hearted " jokes, I find such thoughts worrisome.

There is no question that the child should be disciplined. But to bring formal "hate crime" charges against the kid only proves the level of idiocy to which "adults" in this society have descended.

I'm not a big fan of adult criminal charges for juveniles either if that is what is happening. I think counseling and education are appropriate and some sort of expression of sincere regret might be in order somewhere down the line.

quote:

Originally posted by Bushie

Y'all are missing the point. It was a stupid child prank. And that's ALL it was, a stupid child prank.

Liberalism has turned our society into a police state where a stupid child prank is now being considered a hate crime. All in the name of "tolerance".

This crap is only going to get worse unless people wake up.

If "Liberalism" equates with "teach your child to respect the beliefs and boundaries of others," then I'm delighted to plead guilty.

This "prank" was an insulting act. It's right up there with using ethnic stereotyping and epithets. The only reason people are trying to excuse it is because it's aimed at people of Islamic faith. If it were aimed at Christians, these same folks would be all over it.

I don't believe in designating something a "hate crime."
A crime is a crime. If a guys shots someone of a different skin color, it's a hate crime, if same guy shoots someone of the same race, it's not a hate crime. That designation only furthers the gap between different peoples.
It was a stupid insensitive and racists thing to do. And punishment, couseling and such is definately in order. We can teach our children to be better citizens without needing to point out a person's minority status as the reason not to scoff at them. It's silly to say, "you shouldn't make fun of that person because he's a minority." It's better to say, "you shouldn't make fun of that person because it's wrong to treat people that way. And it's ignorant to wrong someone who you don't know simply because you don't know them."
Picking on the fat kid or poor kid is no better than picking on the middle eastern kid. either way, it's hateful, ignorant and intolerable.

My impression from reading the article is that we don't need to "brand" a child as a hate criminal over a ham sandwich. Let's get real...this country is open. The article "seemed" to indicate the Somali students either claimed their own table or were forced to have their own table.

A million years ago when I was in high school we were required to sit in mixed groups. The jocks (here Sir) sat w/ the brains who also sat w/ the cheerleaders who also sat w/ the creeps who also sat w/ the FFOA (future felons of America)...it worked. College was different...Polo shirts sat at different tables than the tie dyed shirts. Short hair vs. long hair...Engineers vs. English majors...it goes on but you can fill in the blanks.

I have always taken great insult from someone taking the Lord's name in vain...is that a hate crime? It offends my religion but I live w/ it.

I'm sure, positive actually, that these offending and offended students know zero about what happened in the Mogadishu, Somali in 1993 but I confess (I also admit I am wrong for this feeling) a bit less sympathy for this offense w/ the ham sandwich. The actual horror our troops suffered is only hinted at by the movie Blackhawk Down, I knew an officer in the mess. That is a terrible way to view it but I am simply being honest. You kill the enemy...you don't then strip them and drag them down a street in front of cameras.

I am

quote:

I'm not a big fan of adult criminal charges for juveniles either if that is what is happening. I think counseling and education are appropriate and some sort of expression of sincere regret might be in order somewhere down the line.

If a juvenile commits and adult crime, they should face adult consequences every time, period. That is why you have juveniles being used by adults to carry out their dirty work. Judge Issac Parker said it best, and I am paraphrasing, "It is not the severity of the punishment that deters crime, it is the certainty of it.". We knew when we were in school that if you broke a rule you would get swats. That is what keep most of us in line, not the actual punishment.

joe

Children are children and should be treated as such. Some terrible scum will pass through but we cannot treat children as adults. However I like the Texas express lane for the death sentence.

quote:

Originally posted by Texianjoe


If a juvenile commits and adult crime, they should face adult consequences every time, period.
joe

I guess, then, that there's no reason for juvenile court. Or juvenile detention centers. We'll process them as adults and send them to adult jail.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

I don't believe in designating something a "hate crime."
A crime is a crime. If a guys shots someone of a different skin color, it's a hate crime, if same guy shoots someone of the same race, it's not a hate crime. That designation only furthers the gap between different peoples.
It was a stupid insensitive and racists thing to do. And punishment, couseling and such is definately in order. We can teach our children to be better citizens without needing to point out a person's minority status as the reason not to scoff at them. It's silly to say, "you shouldn't make fun of that person because he's a minority." It's better to say, "you shouldn't make fun of that person because it's wrong to treat people that way. And it's ignorant to wrong someone who you don't know simply because you don't know them."
Picking on the fat kid or poor kid is no better than picking on the middle eastern kid. either way, it's hateful, ignorant and intolerable.

Ditto.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

quote:

Originally posted by Texianjoe


If a juvenile commits and adult crime, they should face adult consequences every time, period.
joe

I guess, then, that there's no reason for juvenile court. Or juvenile detention centers. We'll process them as adults and send them to adult jail.

I said an adult crime, murder, car theft, rape, armed robbery, not juvenile crimes like repeated truancy, petty larceny, theft.

joe

quote:

Originally posted by Texianjoe

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

quote:

Originally posted by Texianjoe


If a juvenile commits and adult crime, they should face adult consequences every time, period.
joe

I guess, then, that there's no reason for juvenile court. Or juvenile detention centers. We'll process them as adults and send them to adult jail.

I said an adult crime, murder, car theft, rape, armed robbery, not juvenile crimes like repeated truancy, petty larceny, theft.

joe

petty larceny and theft are adult crimes too. So is assault and making threats to others.


the reasons are long as to why there are law to deal with youths differently than adults.

quote:

petty larceny and theft are adult crimes too. So is assault and making threats to others.


the reasons are long as to why there are law to deal with youths differently than adults.

Larceny is the taking of someones property without the use of force or deciet and is a subcatagory of theft, my mistake for listing both. There is a difference between sticking a pack of gum in your pocket at the stop&go(larceny) and can be treated as a juvenile crime and sticking a gun in the clerks face and taking his money(robbery) which should be treated as an adult crime in the adult courts. We could debate this forever and never see eye-to-eye. I am of the opinion that certain actions have certain consequences. If you know you can kill someone and go to juvenile hall, sit through counseling till your an adult, have your records sealed and then go along your merry way, what is going to deter some kids with no sense of right or wrong from committing those crimes. One more cliche' and we'll just agree to disagree. "If your gonna do the crime, you gotta do the time."

joe

quote:

Originally posted by Adjudicator

idiots abound worldwide.

Aint that a fact....

So those Somali students have to pay for what their countrymen did years ago. I guess we all gotta "pay" then for killing off the Native Americans.

Ok, this will be my last post on this topic.

Children (and adults) have been cruel since the beginning of time.

Since the beginning of time, children have been able to be shown the consequences of their actions without intervention by the US court system.

If a child shoots someone intentionally, or rapes a woman, or stabs someone in the eye intentionally, they should not be granted a pass because they are "juveniles". They should be fully prosecuted.

Handing a ham sandwich to a Muslim does NOT equate to the actions above.

Handing a ham sandwich to a Muslim IS an extreme violation of their faith, and it should be taken seriously.

But, a child handing a ham sandwich to a Muslim is NOT guilty of a "hate crime".

----

When I was this kid's age, it would have been settled in about 5 minutes. The principal at my school had a big paddle in his office. He had drilled holes in it to cut down on wind resistance. A simple "Grab your ankles" command was all it took to mete punishment and ensure against future violations. No "diversity training" was ever needed.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by mr chips

A middle school child committed a very bad act. If he had sprayed kike across a synagogue wall, or the n-word in the gym locker room, it would have been exactly the same thing.

Mr. Chips ......aka Mr.PC.
I wonder why you spelled out the derogatory word "KIKE" but when you came to the "N" word you chose to skip over it's full spelling ? what gives my friend? lacking testicular fortitude?. Do you really think a Jew will not find the "K"-word offensive if fully spelled out but a black man will not tolerate the full spelling of the N- word?..

what's good for the goose is it not also good for the gander? or is this some kind of Oregonian philosophy that some minority's are treated differently then others.
I for one would like to ask that you to strike the K-word .................. or spell out both words

quote:

Originally posted by Texianjoe

quote:

petty larceny and theft are adult crimes too. So is assault and making threats to others.


the reasons are long as to why there are law to deal with youths differently than adults.

Larceny is the taking of someones property without the use of force or deciet and is a subcatagory of theft, my mistake for listing both. There is a difference between sticking a pack of gum in your pocket at the stop&go(larceny) and can be treated as a juvenile crime and sticking a gun in the clerks face and taking his money(robbery) which should be treated as an adult crime in the adult courts. We could debate this forever and never see eye-to-eye. I am of the opinion that certain actions have certain consequences. If you know you can kill someone and go to juvenile hall, sit through counseling till your an adult, have your records sealed and then go along your merry way, what is going to deter some kids with no sense of right or wrong from committing those crimes. One more cliche' and we'll just agree to disagree. "If your gonna do the crime, you gotta do the time."

joe

nobody goes on "their merry way" after a murder.
we won't see eye to eye, because, perhaps, you think that a child's actions and motives are the same as an adult's. Which is very rarely the case. If you believe it is the same, then clearly we won't see eye to eye. But then I've worked with children, many of whom are in at risk situations, for well more than a decade -so I guess my perspective is biased. I'll accept that and our differing opinions. I definately appreciate your perspective and can understand the viewpoint. Mercy and the belief in rehabilitation is situational. IMO, there's no absolute. In this case, however, I don't feel that a "hate crime" is appropriate. But then, as I stated, I believe all crimes come from hate, ignorance or apathy. The point at which rehabilitation or salvation is different in each case. I can certainly see your point.

quote:

Originally posted by sizz

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by mr chips

A middle school child committed a very bad act. If he had sprayed kike across a synagogue wall, or the n-word in the gym locker room, it would have been exactly the same thing.

Mr. Chips ......aka Mr.PC.
I wonder why you spelled out the derogatory word "KIKE" but when you came to the "N" word you chose to skip over it's full spelling ? what gives my friend? lacking testicular fortitude?. Do you really think a Jew will not find the "K"-word offensive if fully spelled out but a black man will not tolerate the full spelling of the N- word?..

what's good for the goose is it not also good for the gander? or is this some kind of Oregonian philosophy that some minority's are treated differently then others.
I for one would like to ask that you to strike the K-word .................. or spell out both words

I'm Jewish and can use the K word without shame because it refers to me. Can't use the N word with any comfort. Just a personal quirk.

quote:

Originally posted by sizz

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by mr chips

A middle school child committed a very bad act. If he had sprayed kike across a synagogue wall, or the n-word in the gym locker room, it would have been exactly the same thing.

Mr. Chips ......aka Mr.PC.
I wonder why you spelled out the derogatory word "KIKE" but when you came to the "N" word you chose to skip over it's full spelling ? what gives my friend? lacking testicular fortitude?. Do you really think a Jew will not find the "K"-word offensive if fully spelled out but a black man will not tolerate the full spelling of the N- word?..

what's good for the goose is it not also good for the gander? or is this some kind of Oregonian philosophy that some minority's are treated differently then others.
I for one would like to ask that you to strike the K-word .................. or spell out both words

Just so we're on equal ground here, What minority are you Sizz?
What's your religion's ham sandwich?