Handling Raw Meat

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Diner-Lover
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2006/07/14 11:39:54 (permalink)

Handling Raw Meat

Mr.DL and I were having breakfast at a diner recently and sat at the counter since no other seating was available. There was one main cook who we enjoyed watching as she prepared eggs, waffles, toast, bacon, steaks etc. However, I was a little surprised (and dismayed!) to watch her take 3 strips of raw bacon and a raw steak from the fridge on numerous occasions, throw them on the grill, and then proceed to take toast out of the toaster and butter it. I'm not a really squeamish person and not particularly phobic about germs (even though I'm a nurse " /> ), but it bothered me to think of her fingers covered with whatever's on that raw meat repeatedly touching utensils and toast and whatever else.

Is this a common practice that we, the dining public just generally don't see? It was a great meal and I didn't get sick or anything from eating there, but this can't comform to board of health standards, can it?
#1

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    Sundancer7
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 12:06:01 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Diner-Lover

    Mr.DL and I were having breakfast at a diner recently and sat at the counter since no other seating was available. There was one main cook who we enjoyed watching as she prepared eggs, waffles, toast, bacon, steaks etc. However, I was a little surprised (and dismayed!) to watch her take 3 strips of raw bacon and a raw steak from the fridge on numerous occasions, throw them on the grill, and then proceed to take toast out of the toaster and butter it. I'm not a really squeamish person and not particularly phobic about germs (even though I'm a nurse " /> ), but it bothered me to think of her fingers covered with whatever's on that raw meat repeatedly touching utensils and toast and whatever else.

    Is this a common practice that we, the dining public just generally don't see? It was a great meal and I didn't get sick or anything from eating there, but this can't comform to board of health standards, can it?


    I would have left immediately.

    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN
    #2
    -Tricky-
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 12:21:01 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Diner-Lover

    Is this a common practice that we, the dining public just generally don't see?


    It shouldn't be, but in most one person kitchens, I bet it is. They may wash their hands often, but I'd bet that it happens almost everywhere.
    #3
    Pigiron
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 12:42:29 (permalink)
    I'm absolutely certain that this happens in most restaurant kitchens, but I don't want to see it. If they are so brazen as to do it in front of my face, I have to assume that they are even less concerned with food handling safety than other restaurants. I would have left and never returned. I fully admit that this isn't completely logical.
    #4
    dreamzpainter
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 13:02:20 (permalink)
    While I am not a professional, I have helped my wife study for her food management certs over the years. Food handlers, restaurant management etc. To my recolection I haven't seen this mentioned but maybe I should dig out the old study guides and review. I would imagine its difficult for a short order cook to wash their hands between everything they touch...perhaps if they used tongs
    #5
    UncleVic
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 13:05:50 (permalink)
    Unfortunatly it is common practice. You know about food safety, cross contamination, yet I've seen this more times then I could even count. It's one thing with beef products, but what really irks me is when it happens with poultry.
    #6
    ctrueder
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 15:10:58 (permalink)
    Interesting topic . . . one in which I am REALLY interested.

    However, when I posted a "story" about my wife's and my visit to a Chinese restaurant in Kelso, Washington, where the proprietors (including the SERVER, the COOK, the CASHIER, and other employees) allowed dogs into the eating area (where they handled, fondled, kissed, and otherwise entertained the dogs) . . . I was met with some trepidation.

    It was inferred that I was a "racist."

    Actually, there were a few posts that were somewhat insulting to our sensibilities (both my wife and I are doctors).

    Personally, I think that ALL RoadFood diners have a right, indeed a responsibility, to be concerned about what is being "handled" before "preparing" my/our food.
    #7
    mayor al
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 15:28:47 (permalink)

    Using my sense of finding some things a bit odd. Am I the only one who has seen food-handlers in a restaurant put on the disposable gloves to prevent bad transfers from the handler to the food----but then see the handler move from food item to food item without changing gloves or rinsing them??? I know that the TV Chefs are in a rush when they prepare dishes on their programs, but one seldom sees a real wash-job on the part of the food-handling celebrity.
    I would also be a bit concerned about the signs in the restrooms reminding employees that they must wash before returning to work. There is an implied message in that once back in the kitchen washing doesn't happen often.
    #8
    Sonny Funzio
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 15:46:22 (permalink)
    Handling raw meat is one of the things that the little hand-sink that is required to be in restaurant kitchens is for. Yes, they are supposed to wash.
    No, it doesn't always happen ... it is certainly not a practical solution.
    Alternately, a lot of meat handling can be done with tongs. The tongs can be kept in a bucket of sanitizer solution (meant for that purpose) kept behind the line in between uses or when changing between certain uncooked and cooked foods.

    Personally, there are a lot of other health infractions that would worry me more than touching bacon or a steak and then touching other food ... doing the same thing with raw poultry would be more unacceptable to me.

    #9
    WVHillbilly
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 15:59:50 (permalink)
    I.recently.had.a.Subway.employee.put.on.the.gloves,.then.proceed.toward.the.back.room.and.talk.to.someone.there.with.his.hand.gripping.the.top.of.he.door.
    When.he.came.back.to.make.my.sandwich.I.told.him.to.change.his.gloves...He.looked.at.me.like.I.was.crazy.
    Let's.face.it,.when.it.comes.to.fastfood.folks,.we're.not.always.dealing.with.intellectuals.

    Excuse.the.dots...My.spacebar.broke.....Pepsi.syndrome...New.Mac.keyboard.in.the.mail...til.then...............
    #10
    ctrueder
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 16:23:32 (permalink)
    Obviously, the folks who participate in this FORUM are savvy to the BS "signs" in the chain "restrooms" . . . particularly the "restrooms" in the "Fast-Food joints."

    LIKE the under-paid, over-worked, uneducated employees of these "culinary establishments" give a s*** about a "sign" advising them to "wash their hands"! Right!

    Personally, I feel that ANYONE who feels the need to eat in one of these "establishments" deserves to get everything they receive . . . germs, spit, fecal matter, filth, etc.

    I know dozens of "fast-food" workers who will tell you about their (and others) experiences of "spitting" on burgers . . . and actions much more "disgusting" than that!

    You don't want that sort of "stuff" in your "food"? Then don't eat at the so-called "Fast-Food" joints!

    Indeed, anyone that eats at these "chain" fast-food joints risks eating "stuff" that they did not bargain for!
    #11
    blizzardstormus
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 16:43:48 (permalink)
    The recommended method for washing hands is with hot, soapy water while singing the "Happy Birthday" song. This allows enough time for the soap to actually work. Hands are to be dried with a disposable paper towel to minimize cross-contamination from the drying process.

    I have been told by health inspectors that the use of disposable gloves is actually worse than no gloves because of the misuse of the glove handling. Gloves need to be change after EACH use.
    #12
    V960
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 18:02:06 (permalink)
    I've got to agree w/ Sundancer...hit the road.
    #13
    roadrash
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 18:06:52 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by ctrueder

    Obviously, the folks who participate in this FORUM are savvy to the BS "signs" in the chain "restrooms" . . . particularly the "restrooms" in the "Fast-Food joints."

    LIKE the under-paid, over-worked, uneducated employees of these "culinary establishments" give a s*** about a "sign" advising them to "wash their hands"! Right!

    Personally, I feel that ANYONE who feels the need to eat in one of these "establishments" deserves to get everything they receive . . . germs, spit, fecal matter, filth, etc.

    I know dozens of "fast-food" workers who will tell you about their (and others) experiences of "spitting" on burgers . . . and actions much more "disgusting" than that!

    You don't want that sort of "stuff" in your "food"? Then don't eat at the so-called "Fast-Food" joints!

    Indeed, anyone that eats at these "chain" fast-food joints risks eating "stuff" that they did not bargain for!
    I couldn't disagree more strongly. I don't care WHERE someone eats, whether it be fine dining or fast food. Each and everyone of us deserves that the food we pay for be prepared in a sanitary and hygienic manner according to the public health laws of the jurisdiction we're in.
    #14
    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/14 18:22:11 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by ctrueder

    Obviously, the folks who participate in this FORUM are savvy to the BS "signs" in the chain "restrooms" . . . particularly the "restrooms" in the "Fast-Food joints."

    LIKE the under-paid, over-worked, uneducated employees of these "culinary establishments" give a s*** about a "sign" advising them to "wash their hands"! Right!

    Personally, I feel that ANYONE who feels the need to eat in one of these "establishments" deserves to get everything they receive . . . germs, spit, fecal matter, filth, etc.

    I know dozens of "fast-food" workers who will tell you about their (and others) experiences of "spitting" on burgers . . . and actions much more "disgusting" than that!

    You don't want that sort of "stuff" in your "food"? Then don't eat at the so-called "Fast-Food" joints!

    Indeed, anyone that eats at these "chain" fast-food joints risks eating "stuff" that they did not bargain for!

    Your position is, to say the least, ridiculous. The sanitary regulations are the same for the least expensive, fast-food restaurant and the most expensive white-tablecloth restaurant. To suggest that people who choose to stop at, say, a McDonald's for lunch do not deserve the same health protections as someone who chooses to eat at a fine-dining establishment smacks of obviously phoney elitism.
    #15
    John A
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/15 17:58:16 (permalink)
    Yikes, don’t sit at the counter of a Waffle House, that short order cook is grabbing and cooking as fast as he/she can. I go there when the urge for some of their smothered & covered hash browns alongside a couple of eggs over easy hits me. Usually I’m disappointed in the eggs over easy but the HB’s make up for it.

    John

    Edited to add - I'm with Michael.
    #16
    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/15 19:12:05 (permalink)
    John A, I've been eating at Waffle House restaurants for many years, and I finally learned, after a few years, that if I want my eggs over easy I have to order them over medium.
    #17
    bassrocker4u2
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/16 06:48:46 (permalink)
    this, is exactly why i opened my own place. so i would have somewhere to eat, without worrying about the hands. any time you got employees, you will have this problem. the bacon should not have been handled by hand, but with tongs, plain and simple. i was a manager of a steak and shake for years. we had forks for meat patties and tongs for other meats. its a great experience to watch the grill cooks from the counter at sns. a good grill man will tap out a tune with his fork and spat, while flipping and flattening the meat. always using the tools for touching the meat, always wearing gloves. but like all restaurants, the boh, and the prep areas, are where it gets hairy...
    as for them eggs... try this. ask for 'ten second eggs'. if they dont know what that means, tell them once the eggs are flipped on the grill, count to ten, then put them on a plate. some cooks only know of 'easy' eggs as 'lite' for some reason. i think its just a matter of getting the right word to the right cook. good luck with that one....
    #18
    Charity
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/16 07:38:19 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Al-The Mayor-Bowen


    I would also be a bit concerned about the signs in the restrooms reminding employees that they must wash before returning to work. There is an implied message in that once back in the kitchen washing doesn't happen often.


    I used to have the same reaction that you do, but I don't think you can necesarily read that into it. The restroom signs don't have anything to do with management concerns about kitchen practices, but are *required by law* as a reminder to staff to wash up after using the toilets. Which one would hope they already know, but there's a law in place that says that management has to post signs reminding the staff. (At least, that's the deal around my neck of the woods.) In quite a few restrooms nowadays, I've also seen posters with full handwashing instructions.
    #19
    John A
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/16 07:42:02 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by bassrocker4u2

    this, is exactly why i opened my own place. so i would have somewhere to eat, without worrying about the hands. any time you got employees, you will have this problem. the bacon should not have been handled by hand, but with tongs, plain and simple. i was a manager of a steak and shake for years. we had forks for meat patties and tongs for other meats. its a great experience to watch the grill cooks from the counter at sns. a good grill man will tap out a tune with his fork and spat, while flipping and flattening the meat. always using the tools for touching the meat, always wearing gloves. but like all restaurants, the boh, and the prep areas, are where it gets hairy...as for them eggs... try this. ask for 'ten second eggs'. if they dont know what that means, tell them once the eggs are flipped on the grill, count to ten, then put them on a plate. some cooks only know of 'easy' eggs as 'lite' for some reason. i think its just a matter of getting the right word to the right cook. good luck with that one....



    You're so right, the local S&S had a grill man that had been there for 20 years. The guy was an artist with that fork and spatula, never touched the meat with his hands.

    Michael, with my WF it's just the opposite, I order over easy and they usually are way overdone. I'll have to try the ten second eggs.

    John A
    #20
    roossy90
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/16 18:33:44 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by UncleVic

    Unfortunatly it is common practice. You know about food safety, cross contamination, yet I've seen this more times then I could even count. It's one thing with beef products, but what really irks me is when it happens with poultry.

    Case in point with the poultry.
    Where I work, and have to cook; when I handle the chicken or beef patties, I immediately wash my hands before touching anything else, after putting the meat on the grill.
    I also keep a pan of soapy water in the sink to rinse my hands before I even turn on the faucet. We keep antibacterial soap at every sink.
    I then change the pan with the water after washing also.
    It sounds time consuming, and it is, but that is what "I" do.
    I also wash my hands after handling money and have to cook or make cocktails.
    We are fortunate to have several sinks within very easy reach of our cooking and bartending areas. Many places do not.
    All my co-workers are also very cognizant of washing their hands.




    #21
    bassrocker4u2
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/18 07:14:46 (permalink)
    great reading, thanks! i am sending to the kids, so they will take it easy on the grandbabies....lol
    #22
    nibianc2
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/24 14:17:41 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by ctrueder

    Obviously, the folks who participate in this FORUM are savvy to the BS "signs" in the chain "restrooms" . . . particularly the "restrooms" in the "Fast-Food joints."

    LIKE the under-paid, over-worked, uneducated employees of these "culinary establishments" give a s*** about a "sign" advising them to "wash their hands"! Right!

    Personally, I feel that ANYONE who feels the need to eat in one of these "establishments" deserves to get everything they receive . . . germs, spit, fecal matter, filth, etc.

    I know dozens of "fast-food" workers who will tell you about their (and others) experiences of "spitting" on burgers . . . and actions much more "disgusting" than that!

    You don't want that sort of "stuff" in your "food"? Then don't eat at the so-called "Fast-Food" joints!

    Indeed, anyone that eats at these "chain" fast-food joints risks eating "stuff" that they did not bargain for!
    #23
    nibianc2
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/24 14:21:46 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by ctrueder

    Obviously, the folks who participate in this FORUM are savvy to the BS "signs" in the chain "restrooms" . . . particularly the "restrooms" in the "Fast-Food joints."

    LIKE the under-paid, over-worked, uneducated employees of these "culinary establishments" give a s*** about a "sign" advising them to "wash their hands"! Right!

    Personally, I feel that ANYONE who feels the need to eat in one of these "establishments" deserves to get everything they receive . . . germs, spit, fecal matter, filth, etc.

    I know dozens of "fast-food" workers who will tell you about their (and others) experiences of "spitting" on burgers . . . and actions much more "disgusting" than that!

    You don't want that sort of "stuff" in your "food"? Then don't eat at the so-called "Fast-Food" joints!

    Indeed, anyone that eats at these "chain" fast-food joints risks eating "stuff" that they did not bargain for!

    People deserve to eat anywhere they choose, however, they do not deserve to have their food handled in a substandered manner with the disgusting toppings that you are reffering to in your little tirade.
    You have issues. I hope you resolve them.
    #24
    lleechef
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/25 02:05:05 (permalink)
    I have avoided this thread because I'm a CLEAN FREAK MANIAC. Doesn't make me a bad person.

    1. As a chef I do not recommend using gloves. First you touch raw chicken then make a turkey (or whatever) sandwich. Eeeeeewwwww.

    2. Cutting/trimming chicken? Change the cutting board, wash your hands and your knife. Next, cutting fish? Same method. Cutting steaks? Yep, you got it. Man, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

    3. Use a separate pair of tongs for each meat/fish so you don't have to wash your hands each time.
    #25
    bassrocker4u2
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/25 08:40:17 (permalink)
    always wear gloves in sight of customers, and always change them between contaminations. many pairs of tongs on stations.
    and the best of all, instruct each employee, and yourself, when exiting the bathroom, dry your hands, while walking away from bathroom door. that way, anyone who sees you and wonders, will not wonder any more.......
    #26
    Jimeats
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/25 09:28:28 (permalink)
    I'm wondering how so many of us survived thru the 40s,50s,60s and so on before the gloves, wooden cutting boards, one spatular and a set of all purpose tongs? Give me a break! People back then just used common sense. I've got a neghbior, young lady with 2 small ones poor kids look anemic never go out of the house have all kinds of so called ailments alergic to all the above she told someone else that the kids can't go out due to the recent finding of EEE. I shudder to think on what is going to happen when they have to go to school. We all have to be exposed to some form of bacteria, there isn't much that is going to change my lifestyle. Diner- Lover, I have probably eaten in more diners in my lifetime than you have driven by. Those great short order cooks never wore gloves, sweated buckets of sweat over their grills during the summer months and left the meats out on platters in a hands {bare} reach, never botherd me and still dosen't. Sorry about ranting but don't get your bowels in an uproar, and never tour the back of the house. Chow Jim
    #27
    Diner-Lover
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/25 10:05:40 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Jimeats

    Diner- Lover, I have probably eaten in more diners in my lifetime than you have driven by. Those great short order cooks never wore gloves, sweated buckets of sweat over their grills during the summer months and left the meats out on platters in a hands {bare} reach, never botherd me and still dosen't. Sorry about ranting but don't get your bowels in an uproar, and never tour the back of the house. Chow Jim

    My bowels weren't and aren't in an uproar over this. That doesn't mean I think what I saw at the diner was right, and yes, I'm sure most of us live in blissful ignorance about how much of our food is handled and has been handled in the past. My original question had to do with wondering if this is a common practice since I'm not a food professional.
    #28
    UncleVic
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/26 01:26:16 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Jimeats

    I'm wondering how so many of us survived thru the 40s,50s,60s and so on before the gloves, wooden cutting boards, one spatular and a set of all purpose tongs? Give me a break!


    AMEN!
    #29
    UncleVic
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    RE: Handling Raw Meat 2006/07/26 01:36:28 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by ctrueder

    Obviously, the folks who participate in this FORUM are savvy to the BS "signs" in the chain "restrooms" . . . particularly the "restrooms" in the "Fast-Food joints."

    LIKE the under-paid, over-worked, uneducated employees of these "culinary establishments" give a s*** about a "sign" advising them to "wash their hands"! Right!

    Personally, I feel that ANYONE who feels the need to eat in one of these "establishments" deserves to get everything they receive . . . germs, spit, fecal matter, filth, etc.

    I know dozens of "fast-food" workers who will tell you about their (and others) experiences of "spitting" on burgers . . . and actions much more "disgusting" than that!

    You don't want that sort of "stuff" in your "food"? Then don't eat at the so-called "Fast-Food" joints!

    Indeed, anyone that eats at these "chain" fast-food joints risks eating "stuff" that they did not bargain for!


    Hey, do me a favor and keep it CLEAN here.. Kids read these forums and dont need your swear words incorporated into your wording. Appreciate your input, but think about the others here... TNX!
    #30
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