Hi.. another hot dog newbie.. Massachusetts

Hi

I've been lurking for several weeks and have learned a few things, thank you. You all seem like a great bunch! I'm in southeastern Massachusetts and will be starting my hot dog cart this spring, getting all the licensing, permissions, etc in April and then get things started in May.

I took my ServSafe course today and the exam (what a frustrating exam that is!!!) and hope to hear good news on that in about 10 days.

I'm planning to lease my cart (Metropolitan) through TheHotDogCart.com out of Methuen so I can write off the lease payments on taxes as well as saving on the initial overhead to get started.

I have a verbal agreement with one of the athletic leagues in town... we seem to have very few concessions available on our town fields; I intend to remedy some of that and instead of paying rent for parking on the property I've offered a percentage back to the league for their fundraising... thus encouraging more sales. Benefits me and the league.

I've read up on several "books" over the last seven months, some more helpful than others, and I have a good idea of how to run things... but I'm going to do a neighborhood "dry run" to get a feel for my new equipment and get some uninhibited feedback from my friends and neighbors about what products work best... good way to get to know my new neighbors too :)

I've been looking for business liability insurance (using info from what I've read here), but haven't had any success yet finding a company locally.

I also wonder how I'm going to juggle gloves for food handling and then no gloves for money handling... can we do this one-gloved?? I'm sure I'll figure it out.

I'm starting to get kinda nervous... that it might not work as well as I've thought it would... or that it WILL be more successful than I'm ready for... don't know which is worse. All I know is that I had this idea 20 years ago and everyone laughed at me... some are still laughing, but I'm hoping I'll be the one laughing all the way to the bank.

Well, I just wanted to introduce myself, and I look forward to sharing and gleaning more helpful info in the near future.

Janice

Good Luck!

Welcome to RF! Good luck! (Will try your cart if you post where it is when you get going...)

Hi Jan,
You done it right.So many new folk come here and ask questions without checking the archives.Congratulations and go with your dream.I can't help you with the glove question because in my two man trailer one person is always gloved.But a year back I was right where you are and despite a few disappointments I'll be opening up again next month....Cat

quote:

I also wonder how I'm going to juggle gloves for food handling and then no gloves for money handling... can we do this one-gloved?? I'm sure I'll figure it out.

I might not understand what you are saying, but if you are handling money then handwashing is always required before foodhandling whether one is wearing gloves or not. I don't believe an inspector would allow any technique -- one-glove, etc -- for handling money without first doing a hand wash.

If you can, try handling all your food with tongs. Rolls and dogs can pretty easily be tossed around that way. Will save a bunch of time with handwashing. In Colorado we're not required to wear gloves, so that saves a big step. Good luck.

I always wear gloves and use tongs, and have a small bottle of sanitizer on top of the cart. I found that it is impossible to handle the dog, roll, money and change by either changing gloves or washing hands in between customers! Ive tried it, and like I said, its impossible, at least I think so. Im in Waltham, and Im not required for ServSafe because hot dogs are considered a non hazardous food, Ie: they are safe to eat right from the package. In my opinion, the gloves serve as a friendly reminder to the public that you care about your product, and your customers. Remember, the money that the customer just gave you from their hands, is the same hands they are eating the hot dog with, without their own gloves! Just my opinion though

Hi again everyone, and thank you all for the great feedback on whether to glove, or not to glove...

The ServSafe certification was not required for my city either, but if I were to offer something else (i.e. peppersteak sandwiches, soups) then it might be... it covers all my bases in advance. And if I chose to expand to nearby cities later, it would be required in some (i.e. Norton).

I was going to try to see if I could handle all the food with tongs, but expect I will keep gloves on hand just in case. And the Health Inspector isn't concerned if my customers hands touch money and then food... he will be if I do though, and you never know when one would be watching. Handwashing is a given, though doing it right in between every customer doesn't seem feasible, especially if there is a line.

Anyway, I have a couple of months to sort things out and I'm looking forward to the challenge, the added income, and the gratification of taking my idea and making it work

Thanks again, and I'm still reading on all the threads for whatever insight I can gain before I hit the road running!

Janice

Just think of the last time you went to a fast food place. The person takes your cash and turns around and shovels some fries into the fry bag. They are not touching the food directly but they are touching your fry bag which when you go to pick it up is kinda the same effect.

Good advice Delta! I always watch food handlers;handling my food for any wrong moves or germ violations.

Welome and good luck.
I am pretty new to this myself and have done a few gigs so far. I did the same thing you are planning. I did a few practice runs with my friends,neighbors, and family on my dime. I will cost a little bit of money but it's worth it. When you do this practice run you have to act as if you were really out at a ball game working (from wearing the glove or gloves to handling fake money). My first day out I brought a buddy along to help with anything until I felt compfortable on my own.

Get a box of the disposible cheap gloves and change them every time you handle the money. if you have 3 people in line ask all what they want and fix all 3 orders at the same time. Then handle their money and give them change. This way you only use 1 glove per how ever many people are lined up. You could also take the money first, then prepare if you are afraid someone will run off with a dog lol.

If you have any local hot dog vendors stop by every once in awhile. Buy a dog from them and pick their brain. You would be suprised how much they are willing to help a fellow hot dog vendor. Just give them an extra tip and do not put your stand across the street from theirs.

In all practicality it will end up being very difficult to change gloves everytime you handle money. Especially if you get more than a couple of people in line. Practice with your tongs. I grill my dogs, and I sometimes get a line of 15 or 20 people. It would just take way too long to change gloves everytime. So I learned how to not touch my food and use tongs instead. The ideal is when my wife comes down and takes the money, and all I have to do is burn dogs and schmooz. That is what this job is all about.

in your serve safe course work, the general requirement is to use gloves or something as a barrier between you and your hands and the "ready to eat foods". it is best to go to the health department and show them the general way in which you would like to handle this and have the health department help you come up with a solution. the best method is the method used in coffee shops and BJ'S, COSCO, ETC. spend some time working with disposable tissues, or watch the server at the NEAREST COSCO,HOW THE OPEN THE BUN IN THE WRAPPER AND USE TONGS TO INSERT THE DOGS. A LITTLE HINT IF YOU APPROACH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WITHOUT A LOGICAL SOLUTION, THE WILL NORMALLY OVERCOMPENSATE TO COVER THEMSELVES AND THE PUBLIC.
YOUR INSURANCE AGENT CAN SELL YOU LIABILITY COVERAGE YOU KNOW THAT THE CART NEEDS A TAG ON IT AND INSURANCE, HOWEVER THERE ARE SOME ADDITIONAL QUALIFICATIONS FOR BUSINESS COVERAGE BUT A GOOD INSURANCE AGENT CAN GET THIS DONE FOR YOU.

Never go to "City Hall" and start asking questions or for help. They'll give you more answers and "solutions" than you ever thought possible. Get your info from their websites and other operators.

".....if you are handling money then handwashing is always required before foodhandling whether one is wearing gloves or not. I don't believe an inspector would allow any technique -- one-glove, etc -- for handling money without first doing a hand wash."

In North Carolina, a hot dog only vendor can get his cart licensed as a "push cart," and no water at all is required on the carts, so hand washing is impossible. Use throw away gloves or a glove, or learn to do it all with tongs and paper.

I somewhat agree with Kens that if you go looking, you'll find it. Went for a permit in another city close by, and oh my god, what a pain in the a**, luckily knew someone around the town. Different towns, different pain's in the a**'e*s.

the advice to never go to city hall is bad advice; this operation is supposidley based in Mass. and i happen to live and do business in Mass over 30 years in the food business, catering trucks, catering off premise, and hot dog carts and trucks. you will need a stamped drawing and the approval of the health dept to do business and again unless you haave not developed a plan you will have problems, most city and towns have made it very difficult for vendors to do business without a stationary operating place. you cannot caarry enough water or heat it and have it under pressure in a small cart, the three compartment sink rule and the need to have a approved clean out station for used water, you cannot dump it in the sewer! most health departments are independent of city hall and do not respond well to connections from somebody, especially when it comes to public health; this is one of the reasons that hot dog carts and street vending have had such a difficult time doing business. as for cheap gloves, there are rules against latex gloves! and considering fuel cost and the cost of plastics, there are no cheap gloves, this is why in Mass. you will find in all of the locations mentioned the use of tongs and tissue paper.

sams club sell food handler gloves. They come with 2 boxes of 500 gloves per box for roughly $5.00. That seems very inexpensive to me. You dont always need 2 gloves on especially if using tongs

quote:

Originally posted by goodeater

most health departments are independent of city hall and do not respond well to connections from somebody, especially when it comes to public health; this is one of the reasons that hot dog carts and street vending have had such a difficult time doing business.

Hey goodeater, never said that if you had connections to city hall that it would circumvent the health department. Basically what I meant was that if your familiar with someone in government, especially if your a current victualer, it is always better because you know the route to go, it is always difficult in a strange town or city, because there are some inspectors out there, that don't understand the hot dog cart and try to apply more strict rules applying to raw meat etc. No health inspector would ever give the green light by skirting the issue for a unhealthy operation!

Goodeater, I did not say to never go to city hall. Of course you'd need an inspection of the cart, maybe 2, and a business license. The advice was not to go with questions you can find the answers to yourself. A lot of bureaucrats don't have much to do and are looking for ways to justify their jobs and fill the time of their workday. In comes Joe Dogcart with a list of questions and seeking advice....he'll get plenty of advice alright. I've hardly gotten the same answer from different inspectors to the identical question. They all have their differing opinions and interpretations. If you want to jump through hoops and run your butt ragged, go to city hall and start asking for advice. If you go, at least have a basic understanding of the regulations. They're always posted somewhere, and just popping in for advice is the lazy and pain-in-the-butt way to do it.

The first inspector that looked at the plans for my brick and mortar hot dog joint, which is 400 sq. ft., told me I had to build a brick-walled bathroom attached to the building outside (no room inside) and that I'd have to have a hood. If I didn't have a good architect and contractor on the job, I would have blown off the location. They showed him the regs and equipment being used, and the fact we are carry-out only and those things were stricken from the requirements. If I just walked in and asked what I needed, that was the answer I'd have gotten.

So what I'm saying, don't just go to City Hall unless you already have some knowledge or someone working for you that has some. Otherwise you'll be chasing your tail.

"as for cheap gloves, there are rules against latex gloves!"


I don't remember saying anything about latex gloves? I understand that you have 30 years of experience in the industry but you seemed to have put words in some mouths here. Any who, good luck Janski.

quote:

Originally posted by Delta

I always wear gloves and use tongs, and have a small bottle of sanitizer on top of the cart. I found that it is impossible to handle the dog, roll, money and change by either changing gloves or washing hands in between customers! Ive tried it, and like I said, its impossible, at least I think so. Im in Waltham, and Im not required for ServSafe because hot dogs are considered a non hazardous food, Ie: they are safe to eat right from the package.

That's not the issue, though. The issue is cross-contamination from the money being transfered to the food the customer is served. Think of all the coughing, nose blowing, bathroom use, etc that hands giving you the money have been doing.

Whoa everybody... take a breath No bickering, I didn't come to start any disputes:

1. I did already speak with the health inspector here (not at city hall)... only to get an idea as to what is expected of my cart (1 sink, water capacity, blah, blah... ), and I expect I'll be visiting City Hall to get my licensing/permits in April. I think that Delta only mentioned "knowing someone" so that you can have an idea of what to expect before having to go to any City Hall. I don't think there was any implication of bypassing the regulations.

2. There is nothing posted at City Hall about mobile vending cart regulations.... I am the only one in the area so far, so I actually had to explain what I was intending when I spoke with the health inspector (and every other town nearby that I've spoken with) and even the local SBA. They said, "you want to do WHAT?.... is that on wheels???" like they'd never heard of it before. Some people need to get out more!!!

3. Gloves... I used to work for a donut shop YEARS ago, no gloves, all tissue paper and strategic planning. As a few have said, gloves are too time consuming, especially if in combination with hand washing and you have a line of 10 people waiting!!!! Tissues and tongs seem like they may be quite workable. I may use gloves though if I can get hubby or son to tag along and change money for me once in a while.

4. I'm not mandated to use gloves... I just can't touch food and money with the same hands.

5. Use of gloves (or any other appropriate barrier) is not justified nor disregarded based on whether the CUSTOMER touches money, food, bags, wipes his nose.... none of that. What's important is that MY conduct with their food is appropriate as I require payment from my end of the deal... not vice-versa.

How those Olneyville Weinie guys (in Providence/Cranston) get away with stacking 10 dogs up their hairy, sweaty arms is beyond me!!!! I KNOW the health inspector has got to go in there once in a while (BEST dogs around!).... but how does that pass??????

6. The 3-compartment sink rule falls on the brick-and-mortar establishments... not the mobile ones (at least in Mass).... though I will be following that rule when cleaning/santizing at the end of the day.

Boy, you guys are a wealth of information!!!! I really do appreciate all the input... and I am still researching for insurance guys. Any Massachusetts folks use Bridge Insurance (Scott Baratz) out of Newton Center??? He's a bit of a distance away... but his company came up on netQuote as possibly carrying coverage for dog carts. It's the only positive bite I've gotten so far.

I'm also looking at the Island Time carts mentioned in another thread.... could save me a chunk-o-change if I can find a way to put it on a lease. Waiting to hear back from them.

Have a great long weekend everyone!!

Hey Jans, we had liability insurance from a place in Waltham, it was about $800.00 a year for one million, that covers any problems with the food, and people hurting themselves on the cart but not anything with the property that the cart is on. I dont know how many times we've had to tell people to stay away from the side of the cart, because it is hot.(Ive burned myself many times) The insurance agent was Sinclair insurance. I don't know if thats a good price or not, but if your interested in the future, let me know, I'll get their info for you.

We pay like $320 per year for a million dollar liability insurance policy. We have a kettle corn stand and the popper is propane. I cant imagine that a cart would be a lot more. We have ours through State Farm.

I have to ask. Why do you need the liability insurance company local? I would think you could get something from a larger nationwide insurance company?

quote:

Originally posted by Janski

Hi

I've been lurking for several weeks and have learned a few things, thank you. You all seem like a great bunch! I'm in southeastern Massachusetts and will be starting my hot dog cart this spring, getting all the licensing, permissions, etc in April and then get things started in May.

I took my ServSafe course today and the exam (what a frustrating exam that is!!!) and hope to hear good news on that in about 10 days.

I'm planning to lease my cart (Metropolitan) through TheHotDogCart.com out of Methuen so I can write off the lease payments on taxes as well as saving on the initial overhead to get started.

I have a verbal agreement with one of the athletic leagues in town... we seem to have very few concessions available on our town fields; I intend to remedy some of that and instead of paying rent for parking on the property I've offered a percentage back to the league for their fundraising... thus encouraging more sales. Benefits me and the league.

I've read up on several "books" over the last seven months, some more helpful than others, and I have a good idea of how to run things... but I'm going to do a neighborhood "dry run" to get a feel for my new equipment and get some uninhibited feedback from my friends and neighbors about what products work best... good way to get to know my new neighbors too :)

I've been looking for business liability insurance (using info from what I've read here), but haven't had any success yet finding a company locally.

I also wonder how I'm going to juggle gloves for food handling and then no gloves for money handling... can we do this one-gloved?? I'm sure I'll figure it out.

I'm starting to get kinda nervous... that it might not work as well as I've thought it would... or that it WILL be more successful than I'm ready for... don't know which is worse. All I know is that I had this idea 20 years ago and everyone laughed at me... some are still laughing, but I'm hoping I'll be the one laughing all the way to the bank.

Well, I just wanted to introduce myself, and I look forward to sharing and gleaning more helpful info in the near future.

Janice

When My mother had her grocery store and deli open (she jjust closed like 8 months ago) I and the wife would lend a hand.

This was a small country store that always got a 99 or 100 on health inspections. It was at most a 2 person operation. Many times just one person. We just uesed those food service gloves that come like 100 in a box. They are very cheap. We kept boxes by the Gravy pot, the hot dog area and the deli for making sandwitches and butting meat. The donuts we just used those waxed paper deals like you see everyware.

I wish you luck! I wanted at one time to put a hot dog cart in the Home Depot Exit, But someone beat me to it. They have been there for years now. Must be doing ok.

quote:

Originally posted by Janski

Whoa everybody... take a breath No bickering, I didn't come to start any disputes:

1. I did already speak with the health inspector here (not at city hall)... only to get an idea as to what is expected of my cart (1 sink, water capacity, blah, blah... ), and I expect I'll be visiting City Hall to get my licensing/permits in April. I think that Delta only mentioned "knowing someone" so that you can have an idea of what to expect before having to go to any City Hall. I don't think there was any implication of bypassing the regulations.

2. There is nothing posted at City Hall about mobile vending cart regulations.... I am the only one in the area so far, so I actually had to explain what I was intending when I spoke with the health inspector (and every other town nearby that I've spoken with) and even the local SBA. They said, "you want to do WHAT?.... is that on wheels???" like they'd never heard of it before. Some people need to get out more!!!

3. Gloves... I used to work for a donut shop YEARS ago, no gloves, all tissue paper and strategic planning. As a few have said, gloves are too time consuming, especially if in combination with hand washing and you have a line of 10 people waiting!!!! Tissues and tongs seem like they may be quite workable. I may use gloves though if I can get hubby or son to tag along and change money for me once in a while.

4. I'm not mandated to use gloves... I just can't touch food and money with the same hands.

5. Use of gloves (or any other appropriate barrier) is not justified nor disregarded based on whether the CUSTOMER touches money, food, bags, wipes his nose.... none of that. What's important is that MY conduct with their food is appropriate as I require payment from my end of the deal... not vice-versa.

How those Olneyville Weinie guys (in Providence/Cranston) get away with stacking 10 dogs up their hairy, sweaty arms is beyond me!!!! I KNOW the health inspector has got to go in there once in a while (BEST dogs around!).... but how does that pass??????

6. The 3-compartment sink rule falls on the brick-and-mortar establishments... not the mobile ones (at least in Mass).... though I will be following that rule when cleaning/santizing at the end of the day.

Boy, you guys are a wealth of information!!!! I really do appreciate all the input... and I am still researching for insurance guys. Any Massachusetts folks use Bridge Insurance (Scott Baratz) out of Newton Center??? He's a bit of a distance away... but his company came up on netQuote as possibly carrying coverage for dog carts. It's the only positive bite I've gotten so far.

I'm also looking at the Island Time carts mentioned in another thread.... could save me a chunk-o-change if I can find a way to put it on a lease. Waiting to hear back from them.

Have a great long weekend everyone!!

The agent I had is local, and I dont know who the carrier is for the liability insurance, but $320.00 a year sounds a whole lot better.

As far as gloves, we get non-latex gloves at restaurant depot by the case, and theyre very reasonable.....

Hi, I once worked at a Pizza Hut. I got written up for not wearing gloves while cutting pizzas with the rocker(half-moon) cutter. Go figure. All nite long we cut pizzas with the same tool, that was allowed tho. Good luck with your adventure, Yes by all means do a dry run for your neighbors and you will learn alot. In your left hand put a serving napkin and grab the bun, use the tongs to open the bun and tong the Hot Dog on bun, this is how I did it. Later CBB in PA

Cowboy that's good advice. I read somewhere in this forum that you have a book on the subject. Is that true. I would love a copy