Hot Dog Debate

Looking at the pictures of hot dogs where you can not see the dog at all makes me wonder. Why buy good dogs and then cover them with a bowl full of salad and everything else in the kitchen????? I like to taste the dog, to enjoy it for what it is. Maybe I am old fashioned. A good dog, a little mustard and some kraut, or relish is fine with me. Put the salad in a bowl and serve it as a side. Oh if you have a cold Bud to go with it you would " make my day ".

I've had some buried so deep with toppings you'd never know there was a dog hidden in there.. But around here, they use the standard generic hot dog buns for the most part.. Can only top them so deep.. So flavor of the dog is not a problem, unless they're using 10/1 or in one place I found, 12/1 dogs..
But I like my chili, mustard and onions.. Always seems a perfect balance around here..

OK, here's the deal. For the most part, I like my frankfurters with only a minimum of accompaniment. If I were told that I could only eat them one way the rest of my life it would be with mustard, sauerkraut and sweet relish.

When I go to a favorite truck and am going to have 3, I have one that way, one with chili, mustard and raw onions, and one with the sauteed orange onions and mustard. That's eatin', and it's pretty traditional if you're a Jersey hot dog fan.

However, that said, of late I've been making and eating Chicago style dogs like nobody's business. Here's why:

I'm forever concerned about my caloric intake. I know, it's a drag...but it's my fact of life. And hot dogs do not a meal make, at least not for me. If calories were no problem, hot dogs would just be a snack item for me. I'd have a nice dinner, and then go out for a couple of dogs. Or, I'd stop for a dog on the way home for dinner.

But the reality of it is, if I'm to eat hot dogs, I have to incorporate them into my dinner. Voila, my take on the Chicago Hot Dog.

Honing the ingredients to my favorite items, I have assembled a combination of tomato, pickle, onion, sweet relish, mustard and peppers. I use a low calorie Hebrew National, about 8 to a pound, either boiled or, better yet, split and grilled in olive oil.

These are all placed on a bun I've auditioned several times and found best for my purpose. Alas, it doesn't have poppy seeds. However, it is large considering its caloric value, about 1.75 times the size of a hot dog bun, and can hold a goodly amount of the vegetables. I toast it in the oven.

I can allow myself two of these concoctions, by my calculations. That's my dinner. And even though I agree in theory that a dog shouldn't be too obfuscated with condiments, at least I have the taste of the dog and the bulk I need to help satiate my appetite.

You might say, well, why not just have the franks and a good salad on the side? To which I reply, yes, but that's not as much fun. As any Chicagoan can tell you.

The Bear

If anything,kraut would overwhelm on a hotdog. As far as a Chicago Vienna with the works,it's not a salad. No lettuce, just pickle relish, onions, kosher pickle spear, tomato, mustard, a sport pepper or two, and celery salt. And you can easily taste the juicy dog that lies within.

Hi,
I think alot of it has to do with the type of dog. The mixed meat varities seem to have a more neutral taste and could easily disappear behind a lot of toppings. The higher end all beef varieties, i.e. Vienna Beef, Best Kosher, etc. have a more commanding flavor and typically cut thru the topping juggernaut. I had a Vienna Beef Chicago dog the other day, no problem whatsoever.
just my two cents
Thanks

You hit it right on the head excellent!

I eat mine plain

quote:

Originally posted by the ancient mariner

Looking at the pictures of hot dogs where you can not see the dog at all makes me wonder. Why buy good dogs and then cover them with a bowl full of salad and everything else in the kitchen????? I like to taste the dog, to enjoy it for what it is. Maybe I am old fashioned. A good dog, a little mustard and some kraut, or relish is fine with me. Put the salad in a bowl and serve it as a side. Oh if you have a cold Bud to go with it you would " make my day ".

I would love to see those hot dogs. My mouth is watering.

A cold "Bud" sounds good to me.

Hello All,
I like my hot dogs plain so I can enjoy the inner beauty of the meat and bun, but I love
to see others pile on toppings and eat their dogs with delight.
Take Care,
Fieldthistle

I prefer mine with mustard, raw onion and coleslaw. Coleslaw doesn't seem to be the choice in many parts of the country, but I would rather have it than chili on mine.

I'm a mustard, onion, & chili guy. And, where available, slaw as well.

Fieldthistle, do you prefer Jess's or Sam's? I should really try a plain Sam's as theirs seems a better quality dog to me. Spicier, but that could be the chili influence. As much as I like both spots, it sure would be nice to be able to get a natural casing around here (I'm in Luray).

Doug

I like the basics myself (mustard & kraut, chili, red onion sauce, onion mustard and relish), but there's no reason that folks can't put any damn thing thay want on the 'dog. If the folks from the middle part of the country want to load the salad bar on it, fine.
Some folks even put ketchup on 'dogs, a pratice i find repellant. But I'm not eating the dog, they are, and more power to them.
Top

About ketchup on dogs. Though I've never gone that way on a regular hot dog, except for experimental purposes, I do put it on an Italian Hot Dog intermittently. That's my big quandary when ordering that NJ indigenous delight...Ketchup or mustard?

Many folks put mustard at the bottom of the Pizza Bread, to mix with the dogs, and ketchup at the top to mingle with the round fries.

Insofar as ketchup on the basic dog, you will find that more kids put ketchup on their dogs than mustard. It's a generational thing. I'd estimate the cut-off point is about 20 years of age....those younger than 20 favoring ketchup over mustard.

Growing up in Syracuse and having Hoffman Hot Dogs, we never put anything but Medford german mustard and maybe some relish on them. At Heid's in Liverpool, NY, they didn't even have other toppings. Not even Ketchup. In fact, the mere mention of ketchup at Heid's was nearly sacreligous.

So when I moved South and had a hotdog "all the way" I was a bit suprised to have Chili, mustard, raw onions, and cole slaw on my dog.
But I liked it.

I noticed though, that in places that pile the toppings high, the hot dog itself is not all that good. Just a plain ol' generic hotdog. In N.C., it wasn't the hot dog that made the hot dog desirable, but the savoriness of the various toppings.

In Upstate, NY, where there are at least three major local hot dogs competing for supremesy (Hoffman's, Meyer and Ranz, and Sweigles) it's the taste of the hot dog itself that is most compared.
In fact, no one ever compares toppings when talking about the quality or taste of a hot dog.

Just as in NC, my travels to the midwest (Chicago area in particular) I find the many toppings used on the hot dog are really a guise to cover up the inferior taste of the hot dog. (Vienna included)
Although, some of the "guises" are quite tasty too.

All in all, I'm kind of a "when in Rome..." kind of hot dog eater. I prefer a simply prepared high quality hot dog. But I won't refuse a lavishly topped red hot.

The thing that you also have to keep in mind is that a Vienna Beef is a spicer hot dog than is served in many parts of the country. They don't have a definable spicyness that say Nathans (Garilic and smoke) or hummels (sort of a dull smokey herb spice) but rather an all around robustness that lets them standup to more toppings without loosing their charicter. I guess it's just one of those things that you have to have in it's environment to get. I guess it's like looking at a plate of shrimp and grits if you never tried it. It looks rather nasty like seafood and snot but it actually goes together so well...

Hot dogs in Chicago are the most popular restaurant entree. 80% of Chicago's 1800 hot dog stands serve Vienna Beef products. They're the finest quality, all beef, encased meats, containing no fillers or unnatural additives found in food store, vacuum-packed hot dogs. They're spiced and made for adult tastes. They're served on a steamed S.Rosen's/MaryAnn poppy seed bun, which is warm, airy, and light. Most Chicago hot dogs are boiled, some steamed, and some char grilled. Never flat grilled or roller grilled! The standard condiments on a Chicago dog are mustard, relish, and onion. The baroque condiments consist of a kosher dill pickle spear, tomato slices, sport peppers, and a dash of celery salt. There was a brief period of time known as the Tast-e Hast-e/Tasty Pup era when the "garden on a bun" appeared. A few Chicago hot dog stands were using lettuce, cucumber slices, and pieces of green pepper. That era was short lived, but still referred to by those who claim salads come with a Chicago style hot dog. A Chicago style hot dog can be "dragged through the garden" with the following condiments: mustard, onions, relish, pickle slice, toamto slices, sport peppers, and celery salt. No lettuce, no cucumber, no green pepper, and no ketchup! To some, "garden" and "salad" are synonymous. They're not! Condiments are unnessary to enhance the flavor of a Chicago style dog. They're great plain with no condiments. Sometimes I use mustard. My favorites include: well done grilled onions, Merkt's or Vern's cheddar cheese, and a thin line of yellow mustard. No matter what condiments are applied, I can always taste the sweet brisket trimmings and the old world hickory smoked flavor of a Vienna Beef hot dog as it "snaps" when I take a bite. We all have our own style for eating hot dogs. It's an acquired taste that we should celebrate. After all, variety is the spice of hot dogs!


CSD

Hello All,
Douginvirginia, hello neighbor. I live in Hinton, 5 miles west of Harrisonburg.
I prefer Jesse's, especially when eaten with their fries. The combination is
just blissful to my tastebuds. I'm not sure if it is true now, but Sam only offered
potato chips, no fries, so it has made me bias.
Recently, the vending machines at work has Nathan's Hot Dogs. It was a vending machine
hot dog, but it was really good, not like other hot dogs I've found in a machine. It has
a spicy flavour and wonderful texture when you bite into it. Always heard about Nathan dogs,
now I can say I enjoy them.
Doug, we'll have to have our own little roadfood tour in the valley sometime.
Take Care,
Fieldthistle

Growing up in Nassau and Queens counties....I appreciate a good Sabrett's, or Hebrew National with just a touch of brown mustard...sometimes at a football game...the onion sauce was very good....now I live outside of Albany...where we have Hembold's...they are ok...but not the same...my husband likes to desecrate good hot dogs with chili, slaw (he's from North Carolina)...I yell at him when he takes my quality dogs to do this...we usually have two brands in the fridge/freezer at all times...some tasteless..for him...and the good ones for me....

quote:

Originally posted by Fieldthistle

Hello All,
Douginvirginia, hello neighbor. I live in Hinton, 5 miles west of Harrisonburg.
I prefer Jesse's, especially when eaten with their fries. The combination is
just blissful to my tastebuds. I'm not sure if it is true now, but Sam only offered
potato chips, no fries, so it has made me bias.
Recently, the vending machines at work has Nathan's Hot Dogs. It was a vending machine
hot dog, but it was really good, not like other hot dogs I've found in a machine. It has
a spicy flavour and wonderful texture when you bite into it. Always heard about Nathan dogs,
now I can say I enjoy them.
Doug, we'll have to have our own little roadfood tour in the valley sometime.
Take Care,
Fieldthistle

Be sure to pass along any special places, I'm in Annapolis, but spend a good bit of time in the valley. Absolutely beautiful. Generally get down there a few times a year, mainly for chili cook offs. One of my regular stops is the Hi Neighbor cafe in Strasburg. Wonderful breakfasts, and the specials are always good. Ordering off the menu otherwise is very hit or miss though. I also find that Mexican restaurants down that way are much better than at home. I've been told thats because most of the places in VA are run by Mexican immigrants rather than the Central Americans that are more prominent around Annapolis.
To remain on topic Nathans rules.

Vayo con Queso

quote:

Originally posted by chicagostyledog

Hot dogs in Chicago are the most popular restaurant entree. 80% of Chicago's 1800 hot dog stands serve Vienna Beef products. They're the finest quality, all beef, encased meats, containing no fillers or unnatural additives found in food store, vacuum-packed hot dogs. They're spiced and made for adult tastes. They're served on a steamed S.Rosen's/MaryAnn poppy seed bun, which is warm, airy, and light. Most Chicago hot dogs are boiled, some steamed, and some char grilled. Never flat grilled or roller grilled! The standard condiments on a Chicago dog are mustard, relish, and onion. The baroque condiments consist of a kosher dill pickle spear, tomato slices, sport peppers, and a dash of celery salt. There was a brief period of time known as the Tast-e Hast-e/Tasty Pup era when the "garden on a bun" appeared. A few Chicago hot dog stands were using lettuce, cucumber slices, and pieces of green pepper. That era was short lived, but still referred to by those who claim salads come with a Chicago style hot dog. A Chicago style hot dog can be "dragged through the garden" with the following condiments: mustard, onions, relish, pickle slice, toamto slices, sport peppers, and celery salt. No lettuce, no cucumber, no green pepper, and no ketchup! To some, "garden" and "salad" are synonymous. They're not! Condiments are unnessary to enhance the flavor of a Chicago style dog. They're great plain with no condiments. Sometimes I use mustard. My favorites include: well done grilled onions, Merkt's or Vern's cheddar cheese, and a thin line of yellow mustard. No matter what condiments are applied, I can always taste the sweet brisket trimmings and the old world hickory smoked flavor of a Vienna Beef hot dog as it "snaps" when I take a bite. We all have our own style for eating hot dogs. It's an acquired taste that we should celebrate. After all, variety is the spice of hot dogs!


CSD

You are so right when you say that we all have our own style for eating hot dogs, and that it's an aquired taste. I enjoy trying different dogs prepared different ways. But to me, the taste of the dog should be the focus of the experience. And I believe that you have to start with a quality dog. I know many places use ordinary dogs and load them up with toppings. When I try a new brand of dog, I eat it for the first time with mustard only.

Most of the time when I eat a hot dog, it is with mustard only. It's the only way I have a Syd's dog. The excellent Sabrett dogs which are used at the Papaya places in New York, taste best with just some mustard. But I do enjoy chili from time to time, and occasionally the unique relish from Rutt's Hut. I don't like most relish. And the one time I had an authentic Chicago dog, I didn't care for all of the toppings. I preferred the plain Vienna dog with mustard that I had alongside the loaded Chicago dog. But I did like the contrast between hot meat and cold toppings. The place I went to (Shake Shack) served lettuce and cucumbers on the dog, which is referred to by CSD and others as the Tastee style dog. These places are in the minority, but some are still around, most notably Byron's. Check out the pictures on Hollyeats.

As for the many good beef dogs such as Sabrett, Nathan's, Best, Boars Head, and Vienna; they're all top quality. It's just a question as to what type and degree of spicing you like. And what you are used to and grew up with. Most people on the East Coast like the spicier beef dogs and prefer them grilled. Our Chicago friends and people in the Midwest like them boiled or steamed.

I say it's great to have so many choices. Sometimes, after eating the spicy beef dogs (grilled) for awhile, it's great to have a mild pork based dog deep fried. And with some chili on it.

Having grown up on Loooooooong Island, NY has been a wonderful chance to learn about hot dogs. My first Nathan's Best was when I was 5 years old at the original in Coney Island, we could get there by subway. When we first got a car the place to go was the Oceanside Rest on the way to Looooong Beach. I loved the Howard Johnson dog which had the roll split from the top and heated on the grill. A dog or two at Ebbets Field while watching my beloved Dodgers was great. I could sit in the bleachers for 25 cents, dogs were a dime. See a double header on Sunday and have two dogs and a soda all for 50 cents.

I have stuck a stick through a dog and held it over a campfire on Fire Island and in the Hampton's, with the Atlantic Ocean as a backdrop. That was when you could have bought an acre of beachfront for a thousand dollars, there wasn't a house in sight and you could camp out all night. In the 60's I had Lum's cooked in beer and wasn't overly impressed.

Two buddies of mine had carts in the 70's, both sold Sabrett's and both did very well. One guy retired and his spot was fought over and the other made enough to open a liquer store. I have stood across a cart, and under a Sabrett unbrella, from the wonderful Metropolitan Opera tenor Pavaratti. We "did lunch" on 59th St and Columbus Circle, in little old New York. He had a dog in each hand, a gleam in his eye, and mustard on his shirt. Going across the George Washington Bridge into New Jersey meant stopping at Callahan's. I love hot dogs and I love salad, but not togeter on one bun.

So I restate my case. I want to taste the best meat available. A small bun and a big dog is fine with me. A little mustard, as John Fox---the Hot Dog Guru--stated is all that is needed on a good dog. Put the salad on a plate and serve it on the side. A little relish or a little kraut (having been raised by Germans I put kraut on everything but ice cream) is as far as I go. Grilled, boiled, fried, broiled --- whatever way you cook 'em ---just slap 'em on a little bun and let's dig in----and, pass me a cold Bud if you please.

Well put, Ancient.
The Bear

Hey, I consider myself the foremost coney conniseur (did I spell that right?) on the entire planet.

There was an old greasy spoon, back in the 60s at the corner of S.R. 104 and S.R. 348 near Lucasville, Ohio, called "The Tasty Corner." An old Greek guy ran it and sold footers for 35 cents apiece -- the best footers anywhere. It's all gone now -- burned down in the 70s.

And guess what? I've got the sauce recipe. Ha! Ha! Ha! Believe me, it has cost me time and BLOOD to get it.[|)]

Yes, I'll give it to you if you want it. It's basically Cincinnati Chili. (No, there's no CHOCOLATE in REAL Cincinnati Chili!)

If you're too lazy to make it, you can drive to "Dixie Chili" in Kentucky, just across from Cincinnati and pig out (3 locations). They taste the same as the old Greek guy's footers of the 60s. If you can't get there, you can order canned Dixie Chili online (awesome stuff, really) and here's where you can do so:

http://www.dixiechili.com./

Unlike Gold Star, Skyline and Empress Chili (the big 3), Dixie Chili has been tweaked just a bit for the southern palatte. By the way, you have to add your own dark red (drained and rinsed) kidney beans. Yes, the beans goe in the sauce that goes on the coney.

Dang! Now y'all have made me hungry -- I'm gonna go open a can and do some DAWGS!!!

Here in Greensboro we have the Saturday American Legion Post Hot Dogs which are onions, slaw, mustard and chili sauce with the original Cone Mills Soda Shop recipe...dog is Curtis...best in the area. Only available on Saturdays from September through April. Makes me hungry just thinking about it.

Bone Man... Turn on your email option! I'd love to get a copy of the recipe...

Uncle Vic, I'll make it easier than that (although I will change my e-mail option as soon as I can figure out how to do that!) Here's the recipe -- let me know if you encounter any problems with access:

http://www.recipezaar.com/133250

Have fun with this. I've given this recipe to people all over the country, usually when I'm camping. They walk by my campsite and stop and holler over, "What IS that?!?" I carry photocopies of the recipe and hend 'em out and I've gotten back a lot of nice letters for my effort.

By the way, if you cut and paste this recipe on to MS word, do the top (ingredients) first and then go back and do the bottom (instructions). For some reason, it's hard to cut and paste the whole thing at one time.


Pat

I want to try these Little Rhody Weiner ones next:

http://www.quahog.org/factsfolklore/index.php?id=108

Anybody ever eat these ones? Are they good?

sonjaab,
I know about the whole ketchup thing at Heid's.
I think the pressure to get a deep fryer and serve fries made keeping ketchup in stock a must.

I didn't get to Heid's over Thanksgiving, but hopefully I'll get there between Christmas and New Year's Eve.

I prefered Webers mustard anyway.

The only bummer about the Wegman's down here is that, while they do sell Hoffman hotdogs and coneys, they don't sell Meier and Ranz. Not sure why.

But thankfully, they sell the complete line-up of Dino BBQ sauces and spices. Most of the other grocers (Safeway and Giant) only sell the slathering sauce and wango tango sauce.

Prius, I learned pretty quick that hot dogs in NC were often a waste of time, especially when Stamey's was straight down High Point Road. (I lived near High Point Road and Holden Road)

Bone Man

The R.I. weenies described are almost exclusively sold and consumed in "New York System" joints, unique to R.I. and not a chain, so preparation can vary from greasy site to greasy site. When I was a kid they were one of those foods forbidden by Moms, but which most guys ate by the brace (think White Castles). Dogs came off a reel and were uncut, uncrimped (so the size you got depended on how much the vendor cut off). Honestly haven't eaten a real NY System in years, but they were notorious for their grease content.

The dogs, themselves were okay. (I have now opened myself up for screams of "traitor" and "Masshole" from any RuhDielendahs on this post.) The real attraction is R.I. dog sauce/wiener sauce. Essentially, this is hamburger meat cooked dry with chili, worcestershire, and other spices. On a recent visit to Spike's Junkyard Dogs (a newer, cleaner, Providence based dog chain) they had started offering a Rhode Island Special which mimics the classic NY System: dog sauce, raw onion, yellow mustard and celery salt. A side of baked beans and I was transported back to the 60s.

That said, I agree with the folks who say dogs should be dressed according to the dog itself, and local custom. A dirty water in NYC must have the red sauced onions and a smear of mustard. In many parts of New England your better off getting baked beans on your dog than chili. But in ten years living in NYC I never had a baked bean that I'd permit on the same plate with an edible hot dog.

BTW - the true gourmet dog of RI is the Saugy.

Hello forum
I operate a cart in central Florida.I use only Hebrew National dogs.The hardest thing to find in this area is a decent bun.I stumbled onto Martin's brand potato rolls.Has anyone tried these? They are slightly sweet,soft and most importantly stay fresh forever.Condiment requests are as wide ranging as the transient mix of people here.Next to mustard the most requested item is MAYO. I know, I Know, mayo? but the customer is always right.
Gotta go to work
thanks