Hot Dog cart in the mall? Thoughts?

OK folks, the next step in my growth is starting to come together, and once again I need advice from those older and wiser than I.

The cart is already throwing off a nice piece of business from the late night bar scene. That is going to go nowhere but up as the college students settle in for the next 7-8 months.

A week from tomorrow I start a limited run on the local town square, during lunch, Monday-Friday. We don't have ANY other street vendors on the town square. We don't have any local statutes that allow for street vendors, but I will be operating on the property of the bar that I set up at night.

I am not actually too concerned about my lunch experiment. I plan on pressing the flesh a whole bunch this week and handing out lots of flyers and coupons and I'll see how it goes. If it goes well I'll stay through November. If not, I'll just make a buck off the bar crowd.

My big question pops up as I get into the winter time. I can't help but be the consummate sales man. I feel like I need to keep the cart catching money. I have racked my pea-brain as to where there are people to sell in the winter. I can't help but come to the conclusion that almost every human being is drawn to the mall. I can sell some hot dogs in the mall, for sure!

Well, I took a shot in the dark and made some calls. I have somehow managed to get myself in the position where it looks like I have a slot at the mall with my NY style hot dog cart. We have yet to cross i's and dot t's, but this is a work in 'almost done' progress.

The question that pops up in my mind is simple... how?

Why could I not use my cart and all the equipment in it but not use the propane and heat the water with sternos or some kind of electric gizmo?

I have searched EVERYWHERE about this, and I remember seeing HD carts inside the mall as a kid in New Jersey.

Why can't I use my cart to sell dogs inside the mall? Please help me troubleshot this adventure.

I know nothing about state or city regulations for Bowling Green, but common sense says Sterno would not be very much better than propane, because of the fire hazard indoors. I would suggest an electric "roaster" (retangular cooker with 3 compartment tray and adjustable temperature controls) to steam buns and heat dogs. Our Boy Scout troop uses this roaster outside when we sell hot dogs as a fund raiser. Any mall I know of has electric outlets all over the place, though they may very well charge you a fee for electrical use.

Rick

My brother inlaw recently bought a propane cart made by Custom sales; but when he was thinking this business he talked with a guy in Kansas that was operating a stadium style cart in a mall in Wichita area.

The cart was electric and also had electric grills. I dont know what kind of burners that he had. You would need a commerical style electric source to boil your hot dog water. The electric roaster would work in a pinch they dont cost very much and can be bought at Walmart. I dont know durable it would be for day to day use. An electric griddle is also an option but will cost much more than a roaster.

Ronnie

I don't think Sterno heat would be considered a fire hazard. Caterers use them to keep their food warm in chafers every day. I see them heading into the office buildings near me with them all the time. Aren't Sterno-type fuels the norm to keep food warm in chafers for indoor catering?

I think the sterno would get to be expen$$$$ive. I think Id look into how difficult it would be to swap out the gas burners and put in electric, hopefully easy enough to sawp back to gas when needed in a couple of hrs at most. Or see if theres room between the current burners and pan to place one of the portable electric burners or if emoving JUST the burner would give enough room

Might be difficult to find an electrical outlet in a mall. Can't run an orange extension cord, but some malls have outlets recessed into the floors with a brass cover for just such contingencies. You may get lucky. I checked into a nearby mall previously and the rent was horrific. I can't recall what they wanted, but it made me gasp. The merchants in the food courts pay big bucks to be there, so most malls don't give their space away too cheaply.

Hi from CBB, Go to a RV site and look up inverters. They are powered by a Car Battery. Put Battery and inverter, underneath in a compartment. (hidden) from view. Then remove or cover up area where water pans and install a roller grill. I once operated a cart with this kind of setup. If you are really serious about this, I could dig out the Picts and info. Later CBB

Rick

I have used the sterno and it will quickly boil the water but it is expensive.

There should be a plug available that you can use. There are kiosks all over the mall.

Cowboy has a good suggestion about the inverter if a plug is not available.

Rick why not go look over the mall and report back to us what.


Ronnie

2-hour Sterno-type cans are about a buck each in quantity and 6-hour ones are about $1.75. If you only needed one, $1.75 for 6 hours doesn't sound bad. But they use 2 cans under most chafers, so one might not be enough. What does propane run per hour on most carts?

I noticed in a catalogue that there is an electric Sterno replacement. If you have a Sterno setup but there's electric available, you can plug in this adapter and set it in the Sterno holder. Like all clever restaurant ideas for equipment, it was around $130. But it would give someone the option of Sterno or electric as the circumstances may dictate.

kensandyeggo

I found the electric chafer heater on several web sites had never seen one before. Its a neat device put as expensive as a full size electric food warmer.

Here 's the link to see one if anyone is interested : http://www.chaferworld.com/page2.html

Ronnie

"Two heaters are required for full-size chafer."

Yikes! That's about 300 bucks to heat one full-sized chafer. But at least you don't have to keep ordering them by the boxload.

Sam's has the 6 hr sternos in 12 packs for around $12. You'll need 2 to get it boiling and just one to keep it hot. I wouldn't invest too much until I knew what I was dealing with after a few weeks.

Working in the mall, there must be some place to get electric. The nescos are a good way to go, the sternos are good for catering, but catering is a set event and the amount of fuel used can be planned. Cooking and heating takes a good amount of energy, a set source of energy that can be controlled will be less of a headache. The mall should know a food operation is going to need electric and they should be able to arrange it. RJF

Just one quick thought that I'm sure you have already considered, but I thought I would throw it out there for others to consider. I believe that most malls would require you to be open whenever the mall is open. Unless you are hiring some help, that can make for some pretty long days.

Here is the latest from the mall people....

I am having some trouble getting the visuals of the cart approved. Here is some feedback from me and my management. We would need to have the plumbing hook-ups concealed or at least hidden from view in some manner. Have you considered doing a graphic wrap on the cart to cover the steel and add some color? Also, can the wheels be removed when you are set in place, or could you skirt the unit with something to cover them? These are all points that we would need to cover before we can move forward with leasing.

What do we think folks?

I don't see much of a problem with concealing my plumbing with some kind of makeshift curtain, not do I see a problem making a skirt for the bottom of the cart, but the idea of a "graphic wrap" on my cart is just bizarre.

Wouldn't a graphic wrap melt?

Rick

Is this same stuff used on vans and trucks? That stuff would seem to durable the surface of a vehicle gets pretty hot in the sun.
I have seen it on ice cream carts but not steam carts. How about just doing the side facing customers? You can make a nice colorful sign to cover any area you want. Go to a sign place they can answer your questions.

Now the plumbing issue. I don't understand what they are talking about. Do you have exterior sinks with exposed pipes?

Ronnie

A "graphic wrap" is exactly what you see on trucks, buses and vans. It's called digital printing. If done on premium vinyl it'll outlast your cart, heat or not. They can reproduce most anything on it. (I owned a vinyl sign shop in a previous life).

Well, to be honest I have worked maintenance for a mall and getting power is no troble. If it's not in the floor they will run and drop it from the ceiling - BUT - I have always found that malls not only charge unbelievable rent they may ask for a portion of your sales on top of that and YES you must be open everyday - except sunday- when the mall is open. That means your cart will have to be manned from 9 or 10 in the morning, usually, until 9 at night - LONGER on holidays. But on top of that you will have to sign a contract - that means even if it is unprofitable you will be stuck with the rent until the contract is up - and with the current downslide of malls a contract is the last thing you want AND - if you skip out on the contract they will hunt you down for a dollar. For a cart , I just think tying it up at the mall is not worth it. With that being said I have a different approach for your winter sales and I have actually participated in this and it worked pretty darn well. Find a good strip mall location, plenty busy, that will let you set up in their parking lot. Get a 10 x 10 ez-up with canopy and sides - this will be cheaper than your first month's rent at the mall. Set up your cart inside this with good signage. The operation of the cart will keep the ez-up warm and you will have plenty of traffic, both on foot and drive by. I did this in Arkansas one winter and it worked out great. You might find out you're the only hot dog guy out there!

=But on top of that you will have to sign a contract - that means even if it is unprofitable you will be stuck with the rent until the contract is up=

That's called a "lease" and is common to almost every business that's indoors. If it's a decent sized mall, you should do well, especially putting in all those hours.

I agree with the good strip mall idea. I found one with 2 large thrift stores in it and they were right next to each other. One was a Goodwill and the other was a Value City. The traffic was phenominal, but trying to get hold of the manager of the strip mall was almost impossible. He wouldn't return phone calls or e-mails. You have to be persistent and keep on them and probably just pop in at their office and sell the idea. I didn't and went to a brick & mortar instead, but I know that place would have been a gold mine.

Ive never seen sterno boil a pan full of hot dogs, anyone else? It just doesnt seem right

2 Sterno cans will boil the water. Cost effective.. NO.
But this is a pretty old topic (for those that didn't look at the dates).
But all those that mentioned the floor jump boxs (electrical outlets) where right on. Also, the mall may do a drop line from the ceiling.. (encased in a nice looking conduit square box). Other thing you may want to look at are their rules for removing waste water, and bringing in fresh water to your setup. Kiosk space around here is outrages and requires a year long lease, if not more.. So renter be warned.

With everything going up from gas to electric I have been researching Solar options, ie solar panels for heating water and generating electric. Along with generating electricity there is the storage factor. Batteries with inverters has limitations. High power requirement (and heaters are big power drains), is a big limitation without having some very large batteries. The inverters will be able to do some tasks for a cart, but many have limitations written stating that they can not be connected to any heating device. With the research I've done for setting up house on solar, I would say using a battery and inverter is off the list for setting up a cart in the mall to heat anything with. RJF

The biggest question, rather than how to heat the food, is whether or not the mall would even allow you to operate there.

Allowing a hot dog cart would not make any of the regular tenants on the food court very happy, especially any that served hot dogs.

Besides, at most malls I've checked, even small kiosks rent for a grand or more. You'd have to sell a lot of hot dogs to meet that kind of overhead.