How much are the chefs/cooks making?

Page: < 12 Showing page 2 of 2
Author
newmans
Junior Burger
  • Total Posts : 6
  • Joined: 2006/08/04 09:52:00
  • Location: Moscow, OH
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/06 06:30:03 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Fieldthistle

Hello All,
Oopps. Sonny, thanks for your post and I hope it isn't deleted.
It does open one question...how much do other countries pay chefs, cooks, food service workers make compared to U.S. workers?
Anyone know?
Take Care,
Fieldthistle

Hi Fieldthistle,
Minimum salary in Switzerland is 2000 CFR per month, about $ 20k per year. Usually it is standard salary of cooks. Average salary of Executive Chef is $75k to $100k. In Russia salary of cooks is about $7-8k per year, Salary of Sous chef is $12-15k. Executive Chef can earn $30-100k.
#31
kkd555
Junior Burger
  • Total Posts : 6
  • Joined: 2002/10/06 19:52:00
  • Location: Ocean City, MD
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/06 22:31:23 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Funzio

Uncle Vic & Fieldthistle,
Yes, and Yes.

OT for just a brief moment ...
And with the writing on the wall about Ford having plans (leaked to the media much to their horror) to move a majority of its production to Mexico ... we're in for more trouble.

The Republican candidate for governer, DeVoss, has been busily painting himself as dishonest with a smear campaign suggesting that Governer Granholm lost the opportunity to bring a Honda auto plant to Michigan ... all the while, the word from Honda was specifically that they avoided the state because of the (automobile) unions ... oops ... I guess he's hoping no one notices (just like the outsourcing issue as you noted, Fieldthistle)

My views for much of my life would make Ronald Regan look like a "New-Deal'er" ... I didn't even used to put on suntan lotion liberally ... but more than anything else I am a pragmatist ... and I can not hold with the WILDLY unethical direction this country has gone under the current administration.

As a kid I wore a Nixon button and passed out flyers for his election ... I've been a republican supporter for a good part of my life ... but with the way they've wrecked our country, as well as our reputation around the world, I am supporting anything that will throw as many Republicans as possible out of office (not that I'm very fond of current democratic leadership though either.)

With the Republicans' responsibility for the war; their significant opposition to stem cell research; their gutting of programs that would actually reduce crime and not just "fight" crime; their prostituting of their position and offices to big energy concerns, even to the extent of supporting an anti-informational campaign against the reality of climate-change in order to obtain what amounts to bribery and graft from big oil and coal; their wholesale botching of every forign policy issue they have laid their hands on; and a litany of other issues. I want them gone ... ¿Cómo se dice? ... mort' !!!

(in the interest of not getting this thread moved and things of that sort, I got nothin more to say here on this issue ... If I can borrow a quote: "I want everyone here to know -- there's not gonna be no trouble from me! ... Cicc', a porta!"
;-)

Michigan was ruined by the greedy unions, not Devoss or Granholm. The horse is outta the barn that sad state going down the toilet where it desrves to be flushed...sorry
#32
Scorereader
Sirloin
  • Total Posts : 5566
  • Joined: 2005/08/04 13:09:00
  • Location: Crofton, MD
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/07 11:03:11 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by -Tricky-

I read somewhere that the average salary for an Executive Chef was $80K/year. I believe that places like Vegas, Chicago, NYC and San Francisco have to be skewing that because in most "B" cities, the average according to salary.com is closer to $50K. And that $50K is most definitely factors in people whose title might be Executive Chef but job description is more like Corporate Chef.

Scorereader, while I agree that few people will decline a raise, most people are able to admit that they are compensated fairly for their work if they, in fact, are. Most chefs work 6 days a week, 12-14 hours per day. A short week is 60 hours, an average week is 72, and a busy week is 80+. When you consider those hours, I think Uncle Vic is quite justified in claiming "not enough". If you take that 60 hour (short) week, that $50K salary and do the math as straight hourly (no overtime) wage, chefs are making just about $16/hour. Sous chefs are working the same hours for $30-40K, so they're making from $9-13/hour.

Hotel, catering and Casino jobs definitely pay better, but they're not really "chef" jobs, either. They're usually "food manufacturer" according to specs given by some guy in a suit sitting in an office.

I don't know many people who would work in the conditions that most restaurant chefs work in for $9-16/hour. It's not a job to do if you care about your bank balance - sure, you won't starve but unless you get lucky enough to be noticed by a Daniel Boulud or get a TV show a la Jamie Oliver, you might not ever do much more than that.


the value of any job is in what the market will pay for it. It's that simple. I'm in the performing arts, so I don't need a lecture in number of hours worked in a week versus your salary and what that averages out to be per hour. Or that the earnings ceiling is low unless you get "noticed." You have no idea how little an actor or dancer will get paid simply to work. Getting 30-40k per year, like a sous chef, would be considered a dream salary many an actor or dancer to perform full-time on stage and not have to wait tables, teach yoga or dance to little kids.

The concept of being underpaid for the hours/degree/experience one has, applies in lots of jobs, in lots of places and is in no way limited to the food service.

I think the above quote from the Drew Carey show is probably the most fitting.


#33
saps
Double Chili Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 1560
  • Joined: 2003/08/18 16:22:00
  • Location: wheaton, IL
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/07 16:34:15 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by kkd555

quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Funzio

Uncle Vic & Fieldthistle,
Yes, and Yes.

OT for just a brief moment ...
And with the writing on the wall about Ford having plans (leaked to the media much to their horror) to move a majority of its production to Mexico ... we're in for more trouble.

The Republican candidate for governer, DeVoss, has been busily painting himself as dishonest with a smear campaign suggesting that Governer Granholm lost the opportunity to bring a Honda auto plant to Michigan ... all the while, the word from Honda was specifically that they avoided the state because of the (automobile) unions ... oops ... I guess he's hoping no one notices (just like the outsourcing issue as you noted, Fieldthistle)

My views for much of my life would make Ronald Regan look like a "New-Deal'er" ... I didn't even used to put on suntan lotion liberally ... but more than anything else I am a pragmatist ... and I can not hold with the WILDLY unethical direction this country has gone under the current administration.

As a kid I wore a Nixon button and passed out flyers for his election ... I've been a republican supporter for a good part of my life ... but with the way they've wrecked our country, as well as our reputation around the world, I am supporting anything that will throw as many Republicans as possible out of office (not that I'm very fond of current democratic leadership though either.)

With the Republicans' responsibility for the war; their significant opposition to stem cell research; their gutting of programs that would actually reduce crime and not just "fight" crime; their prostituting of their position and offices to big energy concerns, even to the extent of supporting an anti-informational campaign against the reality of climate-change in order to obtain what amounts to bribery and graft from big oil and coal; their wholesale botching of every forign policy issue they have laid their hands on; and a litany of other issues. I want them gone ... ¿Cómo se dice? ... mort' !!!

(in the interest of not getting this thread moved and things of that sort, I got nothin more to say here on this issue ... If I can borrow a quote: "I want everyone here to know -- there's not gonna be no trouble from me! ... Cicc', a porta!"
;-)

Michigan was ruined by the greedy unions, not Devoss or Granholm. The horse is outta the barn that sad state going down the toilet where it desrves to be flushed...sorry


What is it like to spend your time making up different names to post on this site? Do you not get enough attention from your mommy and daddy?
#34
-Tricky-
Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 305
  • Joined: 2004/09/04 09:59:00
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/07 16:55:14 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader


the value of any job is in what the market will pay for it. It's that simple.


But it's not. What the market pays is not the value. It's just the going rate. The value of a teacher's job is infinitely higher than the value of an NFL quarterback's job. But Big Ben makes more money than Miss Jones at Public School #4.

It might only be semantics, to you, but, to me, breaking down a person or job's value to its going dollar rate belittles the job and the jobholder.


quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader


You have no idea how little an actor or dancer will get paid simply to work.


Actually I do. But I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader

The concept of being underpaid for the hours/degree/experience one has, applies in lots of jobs, in lots of places and is in no way limited to the food service.


I never said it did. You put those words in my mouth. There are a lot of jobs whose pay scales don't reflect the amount of work and training necessary to do a job well. I think you're projecting something here.

I'm sorry that you appear to be so bitter that other people barely scraping by (and working really, really hard to do so) are doing just a little better than you. That seems to be an issue that maybe you should work on.
#35
Scorereader
Sirloin
  • Total Posts : 5566
  • Joined: 2005/08/04 13:09:00
  • Location: Crofton, MD
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/07 18:44:41 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by -Tricky-

quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader


the value of any job is in what the market will pay for it. It's that simple.


But it's not. What the market pays is not the value. It's just the going rate. The value of a teacher's job is infinitely higher than the value of an NFL quarterback's job. But Big Ben makes more money than Miss Jones at Public School #4.

It might only be semantics, to you, but, to me, breaking down a person or job's value to its going dollar rate belittles the job and the jobholder.


quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader


You have no idea how little an actor or dancer will get paid simply to work.


Actually I do. But I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader

The concept of being underpaid for the hours/degree/experience one has, applies in lots of jobs, in lots of places and is in no way limited to the food service.


I never said it did. You put those words in my mouth. There are a lot of jobs whose pay scales don't reflect the amount of work and training necessary to do a job well. I think you're projecting something here.

I'm sorry that you appear to be so bitter that other people barely scraping by (and working really, really hard to do so) are doing just a little better than you. That seems to be an issue that maybe you should work on.


1- Employers put a monetary VALUE on jobs. The monetary value is based on lots of factors. Would I like to see a 3rd year teacher snatch down a 5 year/80 million dollar contract like a pro-basketbal player? SURE. And while it simply isn't feasible, there's more to it than that; society has already put a monetary value on a teacher. And a monetary value on chefs, etc, etc, etc.
Does that mean the school custodian is less important of a person than the professional athelete? of course, not. But his value to society has been given a number.

2- Maybe you do have some insight as to the pay rate of an actor or dancer struggling to get noticed. I doubt it. But I don't know. You might know. I say I doubt it, because you said "I don't know many people who would work in the conditions that most restaurant chefs work in for $9-16/hour." If that's true, I can only assume you don't know many performing artists. My point, which you took out of context, was that you can't break a chef's salary down and put it in a bubble and say that he doesn't make enough money. There's no basis. Compared to whom does he not make sufficient amount of money?

3- I wasn't projecting anything. YOU gave the per/hour breakdown of a chef's salary and felt that it was justified that chefs didn't make enough money. I never said whether I thought chefs make enough money or not.

Additionally, I never said that you stated that chefs were the only people "underpaid." I made a general statement regarding pay in its own paragraph as its own thought. If you took it personally, perhaps it is you who has an issue to "work on."

4- I'm not bitter. You have no idea how much money I make. How you can make a personal statement like that is beyond me. I have no issue as to how much a chef makes per hour. If he loves it, then he loves it. If he hates it, then he hates it. If he thinks it's worth it great. If he doesn't think it's worth it, then he should do what he thinks is right. It doesn't change my salary or lifestyle one bit if a chef is paid $1 per hour or $1,000. I'm not a chef, so I don't care.




#36
-Tricky-
Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 305
  • Joined: 2004/09/04 09:59:00
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/07 22:47:23 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader

2- Maybe you do have some insight as to the pay rate of an actor or dancer struggling to get noticed. I doubt it. But I don't know. You might know. I say I doubt it, because you said "I don't know many people who would work in the conditions that most restaurant chefs work in for $9-16/hour." If that's true, I can only assume you don't know many performing artists. My point, which you took out of context, was that you can't break a chef's salary down and put it in a bubble and say that he doesn't make enough money. There's no basis. Compared to whom does he not make sufficient amount of money?


A) You missed the qualification: IN THE CONDITIONS THAT MOST RESTAURANT CHEFS WORK. That's a huge part of that statement.

B) Okay, maybe I should have said that I can't believe that many people would. I know three working actors. Two make more money than my husband and I together. The third is making as much as the rest of us who graduated college together. I would presume that if a performer is working they are making at least as much money as anyone else with a BA/BS. If they are not, I'll be the first to say that that is a shame.

C) As far as your bubble comment, then no profession in the world could possibly ever be underpaid were we to follow your logic. Whatever they make for whatever they do is appropriate, because they cannot be compared to another profession. I reject that thought process. Certainly that's very free market thinking, and maybe theoretically it might make sense. In practice, I think it's fair to say that it's obvious that certain professions are overpaid for their effort and others are underpaid.

D) I guess I believe that most people who are properly compensated will admit it. I make less than my chef husband. I believe he is underpaid for his work because I know how grueling his job and his hours are. I think I'm compensated more than fairly. My job is not as stressful and my hours are shorter.

quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader

3-Additionally, I never said that you stated that chefs were the only people "underpaid." I made a general statement regarding pay in its own paragraph as its own thought. If you took it personally, perhaps it is you who has an issue to "work on."


Why make the comment then? If you didn't think that someone was suggesting it, why rebut it? It had nothing whatsoever to do with the conversation about how much money a chef makes. Obviously you had a reason, and the logical reason was that you were rebutting an (unmade) argument that they were the only underpaid profession.

Frankly, I think teachers, firemen, policemen, paramedics are underpaid too. I can't break down their salaries nearly as neatly because I'm not as intimately familiar with them, but from paying taxes I know none of them could possibly be making money comensurate with the value of their jobs.

quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader
4- I'm not bitter. You have no idea how much money I make. How you can make a personal statement like that is beyond me. I have no issue as to how much a chef makes per hour. If he loves it, then he loves it. If he hates it, then he hates it. If he thinks it's worth it great. If he doesn't think it's worth it, then he should do what he thinks is right. It doesn't change my salary or lifestyle one bit if a chef is paid $1 per hour or $1,000. I'm not a chef, so I don't care.


Your comments certainly sounded bitter. It may have been a jump to believe that you were struggling, but your obvious venom that someone might suggest that chefs were underpaid was a clue. It may have been misinterpreted, but I doubt I was the only one who made that leap.

And as for the part that I bolded, well, I'm glad I'm not you. If I learned that performers who went to work 40 hours per week were making $20K per year, I'd be livid. It would affect my life that they were being mistreated, and I would care, even though I'm not an actor. Maybe there wouldn't be a lot I could do about it, but I'd certainly feel some sympathy that people were working that hard for less money than they deserved.
#37
ann peeples
Sirloin
  • Total Posts : 8365
  • Joined: 2006/05/21 06:45:00
  • Location: West Allis, Wisconsin
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/07 23:12:49 (permalink)
I have been in the food service industry for most of my life-from clerk to chef.I was paid extremely well as a chef, a position that recognized my experience and expertise.The job I have chosen to work at now, pays a pittance compared to what i used to get.Am I paid a respectable wage for the position I hold? Yes.Am I paid what I am worth after being in the industry for so long and all the experience i have? No.But that is the nature of the beast and i knew that going in....If i want to make the big bucks again, I have to go back to the grueling hours, high pressure,hot kitchens, etc.I choose not to and am happier for it.Just my take on things......
#38
saps
Double Chili Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 1560
  • Joined: 2003/08/18 16:22:00
  • Location: wheaton, IL
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/07 23:53:25 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by -Tricky-

quote:
Originally posted by Scorereader


the value of any job is in what the market will pay for it. It's that simple.


But it's not. What the market pays is not the value. It's just the going rate. The value of a teacher's job is infinitely higher than the value of an NFL quarterback's job. But Big Ben makes more money than Miss Jones at Public School #4.


Wrong. Being a teacher may have a greater social value than that of being a quarterback, but the scarcity of productive quarterbacks opposed to the lack of scarcity of teachers sets the value. Obviously, it depends upon the industry. a quarterback's value to a school system is about zero, as is the value of a school teacher in the NFL. The going rate is the value.
#39
Scorereader
Sirloin
  • Total Posts : 5566
  • Joined: 2005/08/04 13:09:00
  • Location: Crofton, MD
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/08 11:21:47 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by -Tricky-


A) You missed the qualification: IN THE CONDITIONS THAT MOST RESTAURANT CHEFS WORK. That's a huge part of that statement.

B) Okay, maybe I should have said that I can't believe that many people would. I know three working actors. Two make more money than my husband and I together. The third is making as much as the rest of us who graduated college together. I would presume that if a performer is working they are making at least as much money as anyone else with a BA/BS. If they are not, I'll be the first to say that that is a shame.

C) As far as your bubble comment, then no profession in the world could possibly ever be underpaid were we to follow your logic. Whatever they make for whatever they do is appropriate, because they cannot be compared to another profession. I reject that thought process. Certainly that's very free market thinking, and maybe theoretically it might make sense. In practice, I think it's fair to say that it's obvious that certain professions are overpaid for their effort and others are underpaid.

D) I guess I believe that most people who are properly compensated will admit it. I make less than my chef husband. I believe he is underpaid for his work because I know how grueling his job and his hours are. I think I'm compensated more than fairly. My job is not as stressful and my hours are shorter.




A- in the kitchen? you mean THOSE conditions?Wow, I can't believe a chef has to work in a kitchen.
The chef DID chose that, right?
So, really, what you're talking about is hours, pressure, responsibilites. I think I've made some pretty good examples of others who work tough hours, under pressure with a lot of responsibilty. you also named some other positions like teachers, policemen, fire fighters. And those comparison's are fair. And as I stated, society has put a market value on those positions. I'm sorry you don't like it. I don't agree with paying teachers, police officers and fire fighters low wages either. And when I was a teacher, I did everything in my power to raise that would lead to higher wages. I didn't see anyone other than teachers and the PTA doing that.

B- You can't equate a degree with money earning potential. Some degrees are worthless. Not worthless to the person who studied the material, but worthless to the job market. My best friend has no college degree and makes 6 figures as an entrepreneur. His market value has more to do with the type of work he does, rather than the degree he earned to do the job. People who think they should earn more because they have a degree, I find, are the ones complaining they don't make enough money.

C- You completely missed the boat on my comment. You need to re-read it. You clearly didn't grasp the concept, because no where did I infer that someone couldn't be underpaid and no where did I say you can't compare professions. The current fair market value of a job is driven by our market. Employers use data on job descriptions to know what the fair market value of a job is. Lately, studies have shown that most people earn a fair wage for their job description and aren't underpaid, but rather over-titled.

you say "I think it's fair to say that it's obvious that certain professions are overpaid for their effort and others are underpaid."

That's your opinion. Others may hold that opinion. I hold that opinion for some jobs as well. But the market apparently disagrees with us. That's been my point all long.


quote:
Originally posted by -Tricky-



but your obvious venom that someone might suggest that chefs were underpaid was a clue. It may have been misinterpreted, but I doubt I was the only one who made that leap.



venom? your reading comprehension skills need tightening. My original post was tongue in cheek. a small amount of truth with a whole lot of syrup. You're the only one who called me out on that comment. No one else seemed to think I was being rude. And no one else made a direct comment to me saying I've been "venomous" You seem to be the one with venom. You attacked first by telling me I had "issues" I needed to deal with.


quote:
Originally posted by -saps-


Wrong. Being a teacher may have a greater social value than that of being a quarterback, but the scarcity of productive quarterbacks opposed to the lack of scarcity of teachers sets the value. Obviously, it depends upon the industry. a quarterback's value to a school system is about zero, as is the value of a school teacher in the NFL. The going rate is the value.




this is my point. Which saps did a better job getting to in fewer and more direct words.

#40
Fieldthistle
Double Chili Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 1948
  • Joined: 2005/07/30 05:24:00
  • Location: Hinton, VA
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/08 12:46:15 (permalink)
Hello All,
I've worked in many types of jobs and everyone compares the qualitity of their work and the pay.
In the south, we have this idea that northerners get paid more because prices are higher, but we
think that our quality of life is better. We create these assumptions to make ourselves deal with
life better and have something to feel good about.
And we always like to find a way to feel better about ourselves, and we use many methods that are
good and some bad. I may be foolish, but I feel better when I quit comparing my life,
my "success" with other people's lives. Society has one value of worth that I must live in, but
I have my own standard of value. Some I share with society, and others with my family and friends,
and still others are just mine and my God's. In all this, I see that I have a degree of control,
but the key word is that I am sharing my value of worth. If my boss and I disagree about the value
of my labour, then we can either work out a compromise, or I can accept his idea of the worth of my labour,
or still, I can quit my job and find another. The genius and also pain of our system is that
the value of labour has been systematized and is rigidly controlled to maintain order. But we are
humans and lovers of growth and change and creativity. The system recogizes this and adapts as well.
Sorry if I sound stupid, but I just see these things.
What the system can't control is our individual emotional needs and creative needs, and often cannot
assure equality of satisifaction or true payment of individual labours worth.
Cut to the chase...labels don't matter...a cook in a small restaurant in Hinton, Va. can provide good
food as well as a chef in New York City or Paris, France. Food may different, but the love of what you
are providing shows in your product, not in how much you get paid. An actor on Broadway gets paid one thing,
but an actor at children's theatre in Tuscaloosa, Al. get paid another price, but both are actors.
The art is not in how much money you make, but in the quality of what you produce. If you want money,
then go after the money. You're darn lucky if you get both, your craft and big money. Most of us compromise, which in the changing face of individual and family needs, creates some fun, frustration, and a nagging doubt of ...what if I had done this or done that.... I've found love and the comfort of loved ones help deal with my successes, failures and most of all, my growing self-doubts.
It's a strange, strange world we live in, and I hope my comments have made some sense and helped.
Take Care,
Fieldthistle
#41
jellybear
Double Chili Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 1135
  • Joined: 2003/10/15 09:32:00
  • Location: surf city, NC
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/09 17:36:30 (permalink)
I do it for the Love and aggravation of it all.
#42
bassrocker4u2
Double Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 534
  • Joined: 2003/11/12 07:59:00
  • Location: new holland, PA
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/10 18:57:52 (permalink)
actually, there are now teacher jobs that pay on a performance scale have you heard about that? i think its fantastic! finally they get paid their individual worth. in those schools, the teachers are performing better, the kids are scoring higher, and all is well.
i think they are somewhere in new york.
#43
Peachpie9
Junior Burger
  • Total Posts : 40
  • Joined: 2005/01/14 17:01:00
  • Location: P, WA
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/11 09:55:29 (permalink)
We don't have any chefs in our town--too small. Our best restaurant, which is privately owned (not a chain) and IMO rivals others of its kind in the cities for menu selection and quality, employs what they call cooks. The cooks make between $15 and $25 an hour and enjoy the same hours as the other employees. The chief cook has been awarded a small ownership percentage, too.

It's the OWNERS who work the 60-90 hour weeks. The owners do a lot of the cooking, too, so it's hard to distill who is doing/earning what. The owners each drive a late model Mercedes, so SOME money must make it home with them. They do a wonderful job in their restaurant.

One thing I found interesting from my conversation with one owner is that, at a set date next spring, he plans to begin offering benefits to his staff (all of them, even bus people and dishwashers) in the form of medical insurance and even retirement. I don't think it's common to have benefits like that in the food industry, at least for the line staff. He is also opening a sister restaurant in a city about 2 hours from here.

In the absence of artificial pressures, wages and prices are set by the market. Good old supply and demand. How many of us could stand up before millions of fans (if you count TV) and consistently throw or run that football in a way that would get it into the end zone? Not many. Is this important? Are there people who care that those scores get made? Remember those millions of rabid fans? Yeah, it's important. So you have a very limited supply of good quarterbacks and a very strong demand for them (millions of people are willing to pay to see them perform). Recipe for a huge salary.

Education, mentioned in another post above, is an example of artificial economic pressures. Everyone says that they value education and teachers should be paid more, but in fact studies show that if parents had to pay what it actually costs to educate their children, and parents had the choice of whether to send their kids to school, many children would never see the inside of a schoolroom.

Many other children would be sent to whatever school had the best teachers, educational resources would become concentrated in exclusive areas, and in no time you'd have a system where only the wealthy had access to a good education for their kids. And everyone knows that the higher the education level in a society, the lower the rates of societal ills such as violent crime, child abuse, divorce, etc.

So the government "has" to step in, and the burden of the cost of education at the K - 12 level is shifted from society as a whole to property owners (most school funding other than government funding comes from property taxes) and TEACHERS. Teachers' salaries are held artificially low because elementary education has been removed from the influence of supply and demand. Otherwise we would see some teachers earning amazing salaries and able to make decisions on class size and school schedules just because they're so good, and many other teachers who work in state schools today would be unemployed.

Chef salaries, as far as I know, are subject to the effects of supply and demand. In our town, no demand exists for a chef's services. In metropolitan and resort areas, fine dining is de rigueur and a good chef can be worth her/his weight in Sevruga (yeah, I know you can't eat it anymore). After decor, location and other mundane details are satisfied, a chef can be the only differentiating factor. A chef who can keep quality high and who is willing to take risks to keep the menu selection fresh will develop a following. A good chef can give the establishment that cachet that sets it apart and makes it a preferred destination. I'm glad chefs are well paid and that owners are sharing the wealth. Of course, owners are sharing the wealth for the same reason football team owners are happy to sign those checks for the quarterbacks: we're an incentive driven society.
#44
doggydaddy
Double Chili Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 1847
  • Joined: 2006/06/11 18:39:00
  • Location: Austin, TX...got smoke?
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/11 11:57:05 (permalink)

I think that -cooks- are paid pretty low. Where I live now, a cook is lucky to get $12 with many earning $10. Compound this with many owners having a diminished schedule of around 30 hours. It is hard to get by.

In New Orleans, I worked as a cook as opposed to my previous positions in kitchen management. It was a struggle to earn over $8!! My abilities from previous kitchens had no meaning as they could get someone to do the job cheaper. What I did notice was that there were few Mexican working in the kitchens. I think they go on to work in other regions of our nation. When you see footage from Katrina, how many Latinos do you see in the crowd? The low pay at these restaurants (or any job) emphasize the issue of the poverty that is prevalent in that city.

My problem is that I have stepped back from running a kitchen to working on an hourly basis with diminished hours at that. It is something that I have accepted as I do enjoy a real life as opposed to the many hours I worked at salary.

Going to the original question about chef salaries. There is no fair answer as what a chef earns at a kitchen in a small city/town can never compare to what is possible at another restaurant that is 30 miles away in a larger city. It does not matter if the restaurants have the same amount of tables and a similar menu. Even here, the old saying about it is location is relevant.

peachpie===We don't have any chefs in our town--too small. Our best restaurant, which is privately owned (not a chain) and IMO rivals others of its kind in the cities for menu selection and quality, employs what they call cooks. The cooks make between $15 and $25 an hour and enjoy the same hours as the other employees. The chief cook has been awarded a small ownership percentage, too.... ...It's the OWNERS who work the 60-90 hour weeks. The owners do a lot of the cooking, too, so it's hard to distill who is doing/earning what===

Where do you live? Sounds good to me. One thing that is interesting is that there is a chief cook but not a chef. In this case, it seems that the owners probably create the specials. What I have seen is that there are many restaurants that are looking for kitchen managers. This happens at many chains.

I have to agree with jellybear ===I do it for the Love and aggravation of it all.===

This is what I know, what I am, and what I want to continue doing.

mark
#45
Sonny Funzio
Double Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 907
  • Joined: 2006/02/13 15:21:00
  • Location: Detroit, MI
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/11 18:33:44 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Peachpie9


The cooks make between $15 and $25 an hour and enjoy the same hours as the other employees ... plans to begin offering benefits ... In the absence of artificial pressures, wages and prices are set by the market


As most restaurants go, that is a generous wage range for line cooks ...

While it's true, really great employees are worth their pay and are in high demand ... however the "supply and demand" you mentioned is *not* what determines wages in restaurants. Most restaurants are constrained to pay what they do to employees.

True ... a well run, highly profitable restaurant can afford to pay a generous wage to keep the best people ... but this is certainly not most restaurants.

Most restaurants (I'd say well over 90%) are run *effectively* by the seat-of-the-pants; and if they are doing well it is often because of sufficient revenue alone.
Their menus are priced by looking at other restaurants' menus. They rarely have done a complete market analysis before opening and don't keep track of trends, local development and economics, wholesale costs etc. They often do not keep track of, and use, figures year-over-year or even period-over-period ... and as well don't do analysis often enough ... which means weekly (or even intra weekly) in many cases (including a cash flow pro-forma to get themselves "off-the-ropes"). Their budgets are not formal operating budgets (budgets indexed to projected sales) and many don't do Budget Dev. Analysis. They often have trouble obtaining accurate Cost Volume Profit numbers because their operations are unstable. Their response to cash-flow problems is to cut expenses ... often variable expenses in food and beverage (jacking the menu around and sacrificing quality or quantity in their offerings), and cutting labor.

You can not pay what you can not support ... and particularly for multiple people.

For those restaurants who do pay a generous wage, there are a bunch of factors that affect their ability to do so ...

Number one are issues of profitability and cash flow. I mention them separately because even without much profitability, some owners might desire the benefits of a well treated staff (less turnover, less absenteeism, higher productivity, etc) .. and decide that as long as their cash flow supports it, they will pay more generously even though it lowers their return on investment.

Fat profitability is based on some external stuff such as the economic climate in the area (I see you live in the state of Washington), competition, and whether ones restaurant sufficiently targets the right customership and having enough of them. And also internal stuff such as standards, tight internal controls, menu decisions being based on *numbers*, other solid financial controls such as operating budgets, advertising budgets, etc; and proper advertising and marketing including the restaurant's image and perceived "desirability" by the patron ... and of course, perceptions of quality and value by the patron.

The bottom line is ... you can't pay what you don't have. (or at least, you won't be doing it for long)

quote:
Originally posted by Peachpie9


A good chef can give the establishment that cachet that sets it apart and makes it a preferred destination.


Absolutely. A restaurant's image is crucial. For that reason celebrity chefs are a better example for your supply and demand example.
Also, having a renown Chef can attract apprentices at a more reasonable price. For individuals who intend to become professional chefs, the higher quality reference they get (working in a famous kitchen) ... the earlier in their careers ... the (much) greater momentum they have ascending the career ladder.
#46
Sonny Funzio
Double Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 907
  • Joined: 2006/02/13 15:21:00
  • Location: Detroit, MI
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/11 20:11:16 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by doggydaddy


I think that -cooks- are paid pretty low. Where I live now, a cook is lucky to get $12 with many earning $10. Compound this with many owners having a diminished schedule of around 30 hours. It is hard to get by.



I hear ya on that, Mark.
$10 is around what most line cooks are getting in our area too in a decent restaurant. A bit less (around $8) in a lesser restaurant ... a bit more in a better one.

In a true fine dining restaurant, the ability to be able to handle multi-step preparations, expensive ingredients and complicated menus is a skill that brings a higher wage. And for a Sous-Chef in such a position ... often a *much* higher wage ... $20 to $30/hour or more as the workhorse of the kitchen.

Previous experience in a specialty, such as a Saute in a French restaurant, also brings a higher wage.






#47
doggydaddy
Double Chili Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 1847
  • Joined: 2006/06/11 18:39:00
  • Location: Austin, TX...got smoke?
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/11 22:12:08 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Funzio

quote:
Originally posted by doggydaddy


I think that -cooks- are paid pretty low. Where I live now, a cook is lucky to get $12 with many earning $10. Compound this with many owners having a diminished schedule of around 30 hours. It is hard to get by.



I hear ya on that, Mark.
$10 is around what most line cooks are getting in our area too in a decent restaurant. A bit less (around $8) in a lesser restaurant ... a bit more in a better one.

In a true fine dining restaurant, the ability to be able to handle multi-step preparations, expensive ingredients and complicated menus is a skill that brings a higher wage. And for a Sous-Chef in such a position ... often a *much* higher wage ... $20 to $30/hour or more as the workhorse of the kitchen.

Previous experience in a specialty, such as a Saute in a French restaurant, also brings a higher wage.


Sonny,

My previous experience amounts to nothing as far as employers are concerned. Trust me, I have worked in very fine restaurants using very good, fresh and unusual ingredients. But they do not cook like that here.

My working as a sous/chef does not interest employers now, at least where I am living now. In the 80's, I worked with alumni from Chez Panisse, in the 90'2 it was at top Italian kitchens featured in Gourmet magazine. But here, all they do is things like chicken parmesan, scrod and your basic steak...

Your numbers of what a sous/chef can earn are what is possible if it was for a 40 hour week, but let's face it, that doesn't happen. What would happen is that we would let the cooks off early if business was slow and I was supposed to run the line, cooking at all stations. I put in 10-12 hour days which if calculated to an hourly basis put me right in the $10-$12 per hour range.

What did crack me up was that the managers who told me to cut the staff would never do the same thing for themselves and, oh let's say, cut the bartender...

mark
#48
Scorereader
Sirloin
  • Total Posts : 5566
  • Joined: 2005/08/04 13:09:00
  • Location: Crofton, MD
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/12 14:29:48 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by bassrocker4u2

actually, there are now teacher jobs that pay on a performance scale have you heard about that? i think its fantastic! finally they get paid their individual worth. in those schools, the teachers are performing better, the kids are scoring higher, and all is well.
i think they are somewhere in new york.


it's b.s. the performance is not how well the teacher does, it's how well the kids do. Therefore, the performance base pay has made it undesirable (financially) for teachers to work at lower performing schools. The best teachers gravitate towards the the better performing schools which are typically located in the more affluent areas.

If you start teaching at a school where only 10-20% of the students pass the state exam, and in one year 50% of your students have passed - you are not rewarded as a teacher for the 30-40% improvement since 50% pass rate is not considered an acceptable level. In the same token, if you start teaching at a school with 85% pass rate and after your first year 80% pass the test, you still get your performance bonus.

And in fact, even if the teacher at the low performing school had 80% of his/her kids pass that test, that teacher may still not get a bonus if the school as a whole is not passing. Most bonuses I've seen in action are given to the school as a whole, not the individual teacher of a given class/room.

However, the incentive has helped at a limited number of schools. The schools where this technique has been successful is at the schools that are borderline. Since higher achievement levels are so close for the borderline school, the school often brings in a consultant group (which is normally paid by the state) and works with the whole faculty to help push the school up a few points to achieve the acceptable state level.

I taught in a school like that. And it was an amazing year. The school has remained a high achieving school ever since. But, while we felt good at our achievement (of earning superior scores at a city school) we were also frustrated that the more affluent public schools out in the burbs, never had to work to raise their scores to get their state bonuses.

#49
Scorereader
Sirloin
  • Total Posts : 5566
  • Joined: 2005/08/04 13:09:00
  • Location: Crofton, MD
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/12 14:31:08 (permalink)
sorry for going way off topic there. I just had to comment on that.

you may all return to your regularly schedule program of "chef salaries"...

#50
Sonny Funzio
Double Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 907
  • Joined: 2006/02/13 15:21:00
  • Location: Detroit, MI
  • Status: offline
RE: How much are the chefs/cooks making? 2006/09/12 15:51:19 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by doggydaddy
My previous experience amounts to nothing as far as employers are concerned. Trust me, I have worked in very fine restaurants using very good, fresh and unusual ingredients. But they do not cook like that here.

Definitely, an area might not have the sort of restaurant that one's preferred experience is in.

Employers want someone who can perform with the sort of menu they happen to have. And it works both ways, not all fine-dining line cooks can perform equally as well (or happily) in the Sunday 11am breakfast rush at a large Big Boy, and visa-versa. They want you for what you bring to them that happens to work for them ... and that might not be your "best" experience developed on your previous jobs.
For the employee, experience in a kitchen is only as valuable as how one builds on top of it (at future jobs).
quote:
Originally posted by doggydaddy
Your numbers of what a sous/chef can earn are what is possible if it was for a 40 hour week, but let's face it, that doesn't happen.

Most definitely.
A lot of employers try to limit hours to part-time for certain financial reasons.
Part time cooks are often paid a lesser wage and, of course, they don't require the same level of benefits ... a big expense.
To a degree it also allows them to try hirees without as much risk and without slogging through the process of trying to determine just how quality that applicant really is ... you just throw them into the water and see if they float ... the "employee mill".
The problem is, if the part time employees do not produce work equal to full-timers ... then it doesn't work. The whole name of the game is covering the number of shifts/hours in the most cost-efficient way without sacrificing effectiveness.
The further downside of course is that employees can't make a living and are consequently more likely to leave. You have to retrain new hires constantly which is a constant problem with instituting solid procedures and controls. It takes up some of the most valuable time in the organization ... management's time. It can make things like theft and waste more likely; and if it doesn't work right, makes all but the most "short-order-ish" kitchens more unstable.
Labor cost control is trickier than it seems and a lot of restaurants are bleeding out cash because they really don't understand the whole picture.
quote:
Originally posted by doggydaddy
What would happen is that we would let the cooks off early if business was slow and I was supposed to run the line, cooking at all stations

*Regularly* sending employees home when they weren't previously scheduled to leave is a form of running "by the seat of their pants".
Management can't formally control labor costs if they don't do the math and they can't do the math if they don't have regular, consistantly obtained numbers.
quote:
Originally posted by doggydaddy
What did crack me up was that the managers who told me to cut the staff would never do the same thing for themselves and, oh let's say, cut the bartender...

No way man! ... booze is where the real cheesecake is at :-)
While cutting labor is legitimately done when adapting to outside changes ... local economic changes ... changes in volume due to external things like competition etc ... like I mentioned in that other post ... when cutting labor is the response to profit/cash-flow problems due to other areas of operations ... it is a failure of management. When it is just a problem with productivity (labor efficiency) ... or with dealing with business volume, or other labor cost control issues ... it's still a failure of management.



#51
Page: < 12 Showing page 2 of 2
Jump to:
© 2014 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1