I am thinking about starting a restaurant...

Well, first of all folks, let me thank you for taking the time to read this forum, and to give me any ideas that you may have.

First of all, a little bit about myself. I am 29 years old, and live in a very small, yet growing, community in southern Alabama. In 2003 there were 3000 people here, as of now, there are 5100, and we are expecting over 10,000 in the next eight years. We are about 9 miles from a decent sized metropolis, and finally, the town is starting to grow "this" way. It has been growing north, but, it has started to grow northeastern, near us. Besides that, this area is just growing anyway. Land is starting to be bought, sold, and developed on an increasingly larger scale.

That being said, in 2003 or so, there were maybe 6 or 7 places to eat in this town. As of last year, that has grown to about 12 or so. In this town, we have a Hardees, a Pizza Hut, a Domino's, a Subway, and the rest are your mom and pop places, which consists of 2 meat and 3, a barbecue place, a general hamburger place, and probably one or two others.

My wife and I moved here in December of 2006 from Nashville, Tennessee. Before we moved, I was a number 1 fan of a local wing restaurant that is about 10 years old. It is so good that nearly every time that my wife and I go back to visit, it is a required stop. On a recent visit, without really thinking, I started talking to the owner about bringing a franchise to this area. He said that he is currently working on a package for others.

Following are random facts that will be needed to assist me in making a decision....

1. There are no wing places, and come to think of it, no chicken places in our town. The closest chicken place is a KFC 9 miles up the road. Each restaurant sells chicken, but, it is not a main menu item. There are 2 local chapters of a decent size wing chain in the big city 9 miles from here, and many do like them, and are willing to drive there for these wings, which are good in my opinion.
2. I have worked in the restaurant industry for approximately 7 years, I think. I worked for Papa John's Pizza for 3 years, 2 of them in management. I worked as a Production Supervisor(basically a back room manufacturer of all the products) for HoneyBaked Ham for 1.5 years. I was a General Manager for a Chick Fil A for a year. I even delivered, and pretty much did all other restaurant functions, for Steak Out for about two years.

In all of this, I am thinking about opening my own Wing Restaurant in this area. I want the recipe of the former wing restaurant that we visited in Nashville, but, I am concerned that he will try to sell the entire franchising package, including the name and all. I only need the recipe for his wings and a biscuit that he serves with his chicken. It is the best piece of bread that I have ever had, by the way. It has almost a cake like consistency, and it's sweet, with a honey butter placed on top.

In addition to that, there are no locations for either rent or for sale that would be possible to convert to a restaurant. So, that leaves me with buying some land and building a B&M on it. In addition to that, I'd need to get the equipment. I have friends of friends that own a used restaurant equipment store. I have been told that I may get a decent price there, but would get an even better deal by attending an auction.

So, I guess I need to ask some questions...

1. What is the cheapest/most cost effective way to come out doing this, as far as the building is concerned? I am thinking about maybe buying some land and building a 1000 square foot restaurant on it. (By the way, I wanted to do this in Nasvhille about 5 years ago, but, never did. In Nashville, I wanted to have a Dine In, but, I think in this rural area, a to go would probably work better. I have even considered doing delivery, but, would need advice on the feasibility of that as well...sub question, dine in, take out, or take out and delivery?) I would think that I could resell the building if it totally flopped after one year, but, I am not sure.
2. As far as the equipment, what would I need, and how could I get it? I want to sell Wings, Fries, Chicken Sandwiches, Ham/Cheeseburgers/Fish Sandwiches, and the biscuits. I know that I'd need an open deep fryer. Would/Could I use one deep fryer for the wings and fries? Also, I think that one thing that makes their burgers so good is that they grill their bread..I am not sure if they use a seperate grill for the buns as the meat..what do you think of that? I know that the equipment will depreciate, but, is there a way that I can get it cheap enough that if I sold it in a year or so, that I could recoup most of my money from it?
3. If we did want to deliver, how well to fries travel? Even foregoing delivering fries, what can be done to extend the heat of the food even longer? I am thinking hot bags and aluminum foil.
4. I want to do something special with my fries. How hard is to do the curly fry thing? In addition, has anyone here ever had the fries from wingstop? They are sweet and salty, and I am almost sure that they put some sugar on them. Just wanted to confirm that.
5. If this place wouldn't give me the recipe, what are the best ways to get good wing recipes? I want to keep it simple with 5 or 6 flavors, Mild, Medium, Hot, BBQ, regular fried, and cajun(fried with spices.) Experienced people could really help me here with recipes.
6. Any recommendations on that biscuit? I know that this restaurant does well in standalone biscuit sales as well, and I have thought of some unique marketing plans that would make this feasible?
7. When looking for wings, how hard is it to find jumbo sized wings? One thing that irritates me about many wing places is that the size of their wings are so tiny. I want to have jumbo sized wings.

Anyway, I know that's a lot of information and a lot of questions. I really appreciate an answer to some of them.

Jeremy

I forgot to ask....

Do you think this would be a successful venture? The closest wing restaurants are 12 and 15 miles away, respectfully. They are a "sit down" place.

Jeremy

Jeremy,

I am only a newbie here but I'm a retired entreprenneur who began working in restaurants over 40 years ago as a fry cook, bus, wiat, head, floor manager, Gm and owner.
My advice is cheap but take it for what it's worth.
You are considering investing in land, a building, staff, equipment and licensing for a single-food-item identity restaurant in a very small market. if it were a hamburger, hot dog or BBQ rest, it might be different, but if you investigate, you will find that wings can only survive as an identifier in a very large suburban, auto-based market. That is not where you are. Further, you are entering what appears to be a well-served market, trying to compete against established eateries in a a small,slow-to-change, quick-to-condemn-newcomers market.
If you really want to start wings in a very bad economy which we are entering, I suggest you start by finding a cheap rental kitchen to cook your wings and, crewate a catchy name to build a brand or identiy for them and sell them from a very cheap trailer or stand in the nearby urban market on a highly travelled commuter road at or beside the cheapest gas station on the road on the side of the road travelled to home in the afternoon...or in a walkup downtown lunch location. With a trailer, you can then go to fairs and festivals around the area to build your clientele. Then watch for a rental location to become available, still keeping the trailer for weekends or, forget the location, and wholesale your branded wings to bars and other restaurants.
It's a long story but I have the original wing recipe from the Anchor Bar which is no longer used at the bar. it's very unique and a real winner.I've only wholesaled wings myself but I used it to help turn around the food biz in a friend's bar in Long IslandIf you want it I will make it available to you, only you, but I still suggest you choose another food item as your anchor identifier if you are set on this small market location.
One other note....small-town sit-down restaurants survive because they are entirely family staffed and serve three meals a day, seven days a week. Consider the quality of life that offers you. With no alcohol, (dry county???)the best profit meals are breakfast and lunch in that order...Your alternative is to offer only those meals and still know your kids'names when they graduate High School.
I don't mean to be negative but you neeed to reduce your risk and in vestment as much as possible before you begin.

WingmanBBF

Fries do not travel well. They just don't. You have to choose between whether you want them crisp or still warm, and there is no winner there. Methods to keep them warm all keep air in with allows condensation/steam or whatever and that gives you a soggy fry. You could use a non-enclosed bag, but then you get cold.

Place where I used to be had multiple flavors of wings. At new places, it seems this is needed to draw people in, especially in less traditional (out of NY) wing areas.

quote:

Originally posted by wingmanBBF

Jeremy,

I am only a newbie here but I'm a retired entreprenneur who began working in restaurants over 40 years ago as a fry cook, bus, wiat, head, floor manager, Gm and owner.
My advice is cheap but take it for what it's worth.
You are considering investing in land, a building, staff, equipment and licensing for a single-food-item identity restaurant in a very small market. if it were a hamburger, hot dog or BBQ rest, it might be different, but if you investigate, you will find that wings can only survive as an identifier in a very large suburban, auto-based market. That is not where you are. Further, you are entering what appears to be a well-served market, trying to compete against established eateries in a a small,slow-to-change, quick-to-condemn-newcomers market.
If you really want to start wings in a very bad economy which we are entering, I suggest you start by finding a cheap rental kitchen to cook your wings and, crewate a catchy name to build a brand or identiy for them and sell them from a very cheap trailer or stand in the nearby urban market on a highly travelled commuter road at or beside the cheapest gas station on the road on the side of the road travelled to home in the afternoon...or in a walkup downtown lunch location. With a trailer, you can then go to fairs and festivals around the area to build your clientele. Then watch for a rental location to become available, still keeping the trailer for weekends or, forget the location, and wholesale your branded wings to bars and other restaurants.
It's a long story but I have the original wing recipe from the Anchor Bar which is no longer used at the bar. it's very unique and a real winner.I've only wholesaled wings myself but I used it to help turn around the food biz in a friend's bar in Long IslandIf you want it I will make it available to you, only you, but I still suggest you choose another food item as your anchor identifier if you are set on this small market location.
One other note....small-town sit-down restaurants survive because they are entirely family staffed and serve three meals a day, seven days a week. Consider the quality of life that offers you. With no alcohol, (dry county???)the best profit meals are breakfast and lunch in that order...Your alternative is to offer only those meals and still know your kids'names when they graduate High School.
I don't mean to be negative but you neeed to reduce your risk and in vestment as much as possible before you begin.

WingmanBBF

You know, with your post, you gave me a GREAT idea! I forgot that there is a very small trailer type building available now in my area. I completely forgot about it, and I drive right by it every day. While that does create some concern that others may not notice it as well, I'll have to check into it.

Yes, I'd be very interested in that recipe. I tried to private message you, but, I was unable to do it, as I don't think it's avaible here. I guess the best bet would be for you to email it to me. My email is kf4qhk@comcast.net

Thank you so much.

Jeremy

Edit: reading this over after I posted made me realize that I came across like I didn't think Jeremy knew what he was doing. I didn't mean it that way because it's obvious he does have a lot of experience running locations for major chains. This is about going it alone. I will leave my original post intact.

Jeremy, honestly, owning and running a restaurant is really for people who can't imagine doing anything else. When I was a kid, my next door neighbors were CIA-trained chefs running a catering biz. I loved to help them, really got into it. They told me over and over again: don't do this for a living. Just have fun with it. I didn't listen. I should have listened. I loved [love] cooking and cooked for many years, had a great time for a lot of it, but what I ended up with was a bad back, arthritic knees, elbow tendinitis, and a huge gut. That's all I personally have to show for all that work. The best money I ever made was 15 bucks an hour. That's in San Francisco mind you. I was still having fun at age 29; it is where I was in my late 30s I'm referring to.

If you think you will make money, you are probably wrong. For a gig like you describe, the only way to make serious money is to have multiple locations. That will take years, and will only happen if your first restaurant actually survives. It takes a couple years in most cases to make any profit at all. People here have stated that one of the biggest reasons new restaurants fail is not enough cashflow. It will take a fair piece of money to keep your head above water.

You probably have heard all this before, but it's worth saying again. It is backbreaking work with really long hours and there's almost always not much money in it. Plus deep-frying as your main way of cooking is pretty nasty after a while. I mostly worked fine-dining, but I have had to clean a fryer or two. It really sucks.

This of course is an extremely pessimistic view, and I'm sure lots of people will disagree with me. There are folks right here on this board who have made their own places work. But for each of them there are nine or more people who went under. What I'm trying to say is you probably should go this route unless you can't imagine doing anything else for a living. This of course is my two cents. Just step really carefully and understand you won't do anything else but work at the restaurant for a long time. It will take total committment from you. And you just might lose every penny you put into it anyway.

Last thing: restaurants fail for all kinds of reasons. You may have really great food at good prices; you might be doing everything right, and the people still might not come. It's a real crapshoot sometimes. Now I'm excited to hear what other folks think.

Best of luck, essvee

Hey...I found some land at a GREAT deal, but, I need a building. Does anyone know anything about prefab buildings, and how they would work for restaurant? I guess I could build a small stand, and expand later. Also, how expensive are the trailers mentioned earlier, the ones that are portable, and could ferry all of the equipment?
Jeremy

I'm a Business Coach and I suggest you NOT tie up your capital and make a long term financial commitment in land & buildings UNTIL you know if this is going to work and make a PROFIT. If it doesn't work you're stuck with a mortgage and all your assets tied up in a property in a small town that may or may not sell. Rent or buy a portable piece of equpment as suggested above. There are plenty of threads on this web site that talk about that equpment. USE THE SEARCH BUTTON AND LEARN. The "Fire, Ready, Aim" theory doesn't work. Unless you have more money than you know what to do with, I suggest you remember this---"Happiness is a Positive Cashflow!"

I tried to search on these forums for a portable piece of equipment as suggested, but the search was to no avail. Are there any suggestions? I tried to google such a search, and saw a few things that were promising, but, I haven't quite found "the one" yet.

I guess that I'd like to find a small building/trailer that could hold, at a minimum, 2 fryers, one for wings, one for fries, some sort of refrigeration unit, an oven(for the biscuits) and that'd be it. I guess I could do the burgers later on.

Or, would there be a "hot dog cart" sized thing that I could do, that would be really portable?

Thanks again for suggestions.

If you go to Ebay and key in "restaurant" then make your search for the "highest items" first...it will bring up several "portable restaurants" for sale. That might give you an idea of price.

I don't think someone as niave as you about the entreprenureal side of the food business should venture into it. Big difference from running chains to running your own. People much more experienced than you in Mom & Pops have lost their financial lives chasing a "Good Idea". You obviously need some training on Google. There's a ton of info on there about mobiles and small units. For example:
http://www.customsalesandservice.com/products/street-carts/model-650
http://www.cartconcept.com/index.html
http://www.holsteinmfg.com/mobilegrills.html?gclid=CLzez5ebhYYCFQdUDgodpWPFhg
http://www.thehotdogcart.com.

Try ebay for you equipment.

I would not buy land or a building. I would lease a building. Do you have any hotels in your town? Wing places do great in Hotels. You have dedicated customers and out of towners.

You should be able to sign like a 5 year lease that would build to suit ot what not.

quote:

Originally posted by kf4qhk

I tried to search on these forums for a portable piece of equipment as suggested, but the search was to no avail. Are there any suggestions? I tried to google such a search, and saw a few things that were promising, but, I haven't quite found "the one" yet.

I guess that I'd like to find a small building/trailer that could hold, at a minimum, 2 fryers, one for wings, one for fries, some sort of refrigeration unit, an oven(for the biscuits) and that'd be it. I guess I could do the burgers later on.

Or, would there be a "hot dog cart" sized thing that I could do, that would be really portable?

Thanks again for suggestions.

Well, my first big hurdle, finding real estate, may have been worked out. I have a friend who owns a store right in the block that I want to be anyway, and we may be able to work it out where I put a small "stand" right in front of his business, for a small monthly amount, and a small check. No major contract, no major expense for building development.

I guess the next thing would be to price a very small cart or to design a small "shack" type thing that can go in front of his business.

What do you y'all think?

Jeremy

a lot of people will dissagree with me on this, but i will say it til i die....
dont go with a franchise! start up your on original idea, study and create your own recipes. its not that dang hard. and it sure beats paying all those franchise cost, and answering to their every barking order. if you got the dough to start up a franchise, you can certainly start up your pwn place. now here are a few important points to think about>?

always have a solid exit strategy. if you fail to plan, thn you better plan to fail. you need to think, read, and study everything you can, and write downand document every bad case scenario, and write out a counter/solution for that scenario. that, is the first step of creating a business plan/. now, you know what the risks are, and you can make a honest decision about how far you want to go, and how much you want to risk. (ie... three months survival cash buied in the back yard).
now think of this. if you want to make a small fortune in the restaurant business, then you got to start with a large fortune.. true
the best way to insure your success, is to start out small, and build from there. if you put a carrier(uss eisenhower) in the small pond out back, it aint gonna work out very well for the carrier.
now, you say your town is growing, but it sounds like thereare a bunch of eateries all ready. not to fret, cause you aledy did your homework, and decided that there are not any palcfes to get your wings. that is agreat start. usually associated with them wings is beer, and sports, and tanktop waitresses.. get where i am going?
so think about that scenario. do able?? beer license? satelite? ten flat screens? two bars??
yea, well if you cut out your nich, you may just make it. now face it, you aint gonna draw folks from other towns, unless you offer something they dont have either.
oopsss... all for now, more later...
its time for....
TEE-TIME.... YEAH! FORE!!!!
peace out
mike

I think the big question you need to ask yourself is how much money do you have to invest in your venture. The next question you need to answer is how much money will it take to get started. The next question is how much money will you have left once you're ready to open your door to business.

Of course, to be able to answer the second question you'll need to decide what it is you're gonna do and how you're gonna do it. That means you need to put your business plan together.

The answer to the third question is simple arithmetic.

Well, it's looking potentially good. I have decided to forgo going the way of the franchise. I am starting to look at the cost of building/getting equipment and food cost.

While this is my third consideration, and currently I am on step 2, does anyone know how expensive wings are? I want to get jumbo wings.

thanks.
Jeremy

quote:

Originally posted by kf4qhk

I am starting to look at the cost of building/getting equipment and food cost. ...I am on step 2, does anyone know how expensive wings are? I want to get jumbo wings.

thanks.
Jeremy

You should be well aware of the price of wings long before you came to this site. You should also know the answers regarding equipment too.
Not knowing that and other questions are a sign of future problems.

mark

The only post that has been visited more than this is one on Harold's! If you take a few minutes, you can go back and research everyone's comments for the past few years. To continue to revisit this over and over again is not something I'm willing to do. But, good luck to you!

quote:

Originally posted by Baah Ben
The only post that has been visited more than this is one on Harold's! If you take a few minutes, you can go back and research everyone's comments for the past few years. To continue to revisit this over and over again is not something I'm willing to do. But, good luck to you!

Boy I couldn't agree more
Jack