Immigration-Let's be gentle

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BT
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/21 18:58:26 (permalink)
So V960, are you suggesting that the fact that irish immigrants caused trouble in 19th century New York means that the problems caused by illegals today are OK and should be ignored? I, for one, don't buy that logic.

Here's yet another immigration-related problem in the free-fire zone down here near the border: http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/10071.php
#61
BhamBabe
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/21 21:09:20 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by stevekoe

quote:
Originally posted by stephiegirl

Why don't they try going to college and getting a degree? No one can say that they couldn't go to college because they couldn't get financial support is crazy because they seem to make more exceptions for people everyday. You can get scholarships for being Indian or for being a minority but they don't just hand over money for being white. When you look at getting financial aid for a white person and they look at the parents income it has to be so low or else they just throw out your application.





Your last statement is pretty ridiculous. Financial aid is not determined by "parents income" (sic), it is determined by Expected Family Contribution (EFC), which is determined by a number of factors, including parents' income. MOST of the aid dispersed in this country is a factor of EFC. While there are some specialty scholarships available to people of hispanic backgrounds, African-American backgrounds, and the like, there are also specialty scholarships available to students who want to pursue teaching as a major, participate in the INTEL or Westinghouse Science Fairs, or pursue a career in the health services fields (and many, many more). Of course, people who claim that there is no financial aid available to whites are most likely talking about white students with below average grades (relative to the academic institution) or test scores with no defined career goals, who all want to apply to the same 30-40 selective universities -- and with parents who actually do make plenty of money for their children to attend college.

I have people who call my office all the time with EFCs in the $60k plus range who want to know why we can't offer more aid. They have story after story as to why they cannot pay the bill -- but, they are calling me from their convertible BMW on the way to the club to play golf. Minority students, many of whom have EFCs of under $6k will figure out a way to get the money to pay for the education that they feel is worth the money.

I again stand by my previous comments that most folks here wouldn't change places with any illegals (or any minorities, for that matter) because they have better access to financial aid.


Hear! Hear! And we are called Native AMERICANS or AMERICAN Indians for a reason! The last I heard we were here first anyways.

I feel we should take care of our own homes before trying to take on everything else. I'm all for someone trying to make a better life. I fight for rights daily, but I don't think we should just give someone something because they wish it.

I live in a place that has many, many hispanics. I love their culture, the food and yes, they work hard. As long as they stay here I'm cool with it. But sending money home and only being here for money and health care is not cool. Become legal, learn our language, be a part of a productive citizenship...shouldn't be too hard. The red tape does need to be streamlined I agree. Heck, I know someone from Canada that has been waiting for at least 5 years. But to me it shows dedication and a will to be a part of our country that just working here will never prove.

And lest anyone think it's just Mexican illegals that folks are upset with, we have El Salvadorans too. Recent reports indicate that MS-13 has expanded from California to Alaska, Oregon, Utah, Texas, Nevada, Oklahoma, Illinois, Michigan, New York, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia, Washington, D.C., and Florida. The gang has also been exported back to Central America. Though they do have ties with the Mexican Mafia. MS-13 has no ties to al Qaeda but does have an arrangement with the Mexican mafia. Gang members receive protection in prisons from the Mexican mafia and in return pay dues to the mafia.

Many urban cities on the east coast are over run with this gang. Drugs, guns, murder, they got em all. And most, if not all, of the core groups or head honchos are illegal aliens. They bring more drugs over our borders than any Mexican could but do work in close connection with them when necessary. Being illegal pays off for many of these gang members, just slip back over the border and go poof.

To say that scares me is an understatement. So see, I don't care much about the money part of this, but as a mother of 7 kids who have to go out into this world and deal with this kind of behaviour it's not only dangerous, it could possibly be deadly.

To see how powerful they've become and how vicious google MS-13
#62
BhamBabe
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/21 21:22:17 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by MilwFoodlovers

As an enrolled tribal member, I searched out Native American grants and found none, so I put myself through school.



There are more now out there, but it's usually a mentorship or a private company and of course, tribal. If they use the mentoring programs they have to promise to give back to the reservations by so many years or to start and maintain a program for underprivileged tribal members. Their paying back any debt is put on hold for as long as they keep their side of the bargin.

This is relatively new as I also didn't find any grants esp for American Indians when I started school and paid my own way. My oldest did get a partial scholorship via the Kiowa Tribe of Oklahoma. But that was through a private company as well, that had given the money to be issued via the Tribal Council based on many facts and not just for his tribal affiliation. In other words, he earned it the old fashioned way lol

There are no federal monies other than what is already out there for any American Indians, just for being American Indian, that I could find. Of course other races are also free to take advantage of those monies if they so wish.
#63
The Travelin Man
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/21 21:56:42 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by BhamBabe

There are no federal monies other than what is already out there for any American Indians, just for being American Indian, that I could find. Of course other races are also free to take advantage of those monies if they so wish.


There are also no monies from the federal government for African-American students just for being black; hispanic students just for being hispanic, etc. There are private companies that offer scholarships (United Negro College Fund, etc.), but these are not federally funded scholarships.

The bigger issue facing most Native Americans is the lack of pre-college education they receive. I don't recall where I read this, but I believe as a targetted population, NA's have one of the highest dropout rates in the country.

It would be nice if Indian tribes came up with a way to use the money that is earned from casino gambling, tobacco sales, and other economic interests, and put it into secondary school education and college scholarships. It doesn't seem like that has happened, so far.
#64
MilwFoodlovers
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/21 23:22:56 (permalink)
Just like all Caucasians are not Bill Gates, not all Native Americans have lucrative casino gambling and tobacco sales. Those that do seem to put into secondary education, at least here in Wisconsin.
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BhamBabe
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/22 02:29:01 (permalink)
Yeah we are raking it in lol

With welfare and low-paying farmwork the main opportunities for unskilled Kiowas -- and with many farm jobs being snapped up by Mexican labor -- Kiowas routinely set out for Dallas, St. Louis, and Southern California, hoping to land jobs as mechanics, carpenters, and factory workers.

"We're on the bottom of the totem pole around here," explains Horse, a full-blooded Kiowa who has served as tribal chairman for most of the last decade. "There are no factories so the only work is farm labor and a lot of that doesn't even pay minimum."

It's also based on where you live and how many people are living there. For Kiowa, there are about 11,000, 1,500 live on the rez.

But today, while other tribes have graduated to highly lucrative Las Vegas-style casinos, the Kiowas and other Oklahoma tribes find that longstanding resentments over tribal land policy have been compounded by inequities in the way the federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act has played out. That's because the 1988 act that regulates Indian gaming, is applied differently depending on what kind of gambling a state has already approved. And Oklahoma, unlike some other states, has been able to limit Indian gaming to bingo and electronic gaming machines, which are less profitable than Las Vegas-style slots.

Today, some 20 Oklahoma tribes are running Class II gambling halls and generating modest returns, but nowhere near the riches collected by Connecticut tribes. And because Oklahoma voters recently defeated a state initiative to legalize both Indian and non-Indian casino gambling, struggling tribes here in the heart of Indian Country are unlikely to hit the gambling jackpot any time soon.

And just to clear the air, most money goes towards housing and other needed things, Elder care, feeding, clothing and making sure they have their meds, heating bills, electric bills and hopefully one day soon a real roof on some houses and anything other than generators for power. Once the power is out, no water since it's a pump run on electric. Many of our people are elderly and hardly no young people reside on the rez, they all escape government reining trying to make something better for themselves. Not every Nation has the luxury of gaming.

To keep it on topic, illegal aliens do take a lot of the work around there because they work for lower wages, there are more of them and many of them are not eldery.
#66
BhamBabe
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/22 02:32:19 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by stevekoe

quote:
Originally posted by BhamBabe

There are no federal monies other than what is already out there for any American Indians, just for being American Indian, that I could find. Of course other races are also free to take advantage of those monies if they so wish.


There are also no monies from the federal government for African-American students just for being black; hispanic students just for being hispanic, etc. There are private companies that offer scholarships (United Negro College Fund, etc.), but these are not federally funded scholarships.

The bigger issue facing most Native Americans is the lack of pre-college education they receive. I don't recall where I read this, but I believe as a targetted population, NA's have one of the highest dropout rates in the country.

It would be nice if Indian tribes came up with a way to use the money that is earned from casino gambling, tobacco sales, and other economic interests, and put it into secondary school education and college scholarships. It doesn't seem like that has happened, so far.


Ya wanna know what the Natives biggest enemy is? Other Natives! Just go read about stealing from each other, inter tribal deals, selling each other out and the like. We don't need the help from outsiders to make it worse, we do it to ourselves. And these are the ones with money, big money, casino money. Greed is color blind.
#67
BT
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/22 03:18:19 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by stevekoe

quote:
Originally posted by BhamBabe

There are no federal monies other than what is already out there for any American Indians, just for being American Indian, that I could find. Of course other races are also free to take advantage of those monies if they so wish.


There are also no monies from the federal government for African-American students just for being black; hispanic students just for being hispanic, etc. There are private companies that offer scholarships (United Negro College Fund, etc.), but these are not federally funded scholarships.

The bigger issue facing most Native Americans is the lack of pre-college education they receive. I don't recall where I read this, but I believe as a targetted population, NA's have one of the highest dropout rates in the country.

It would be nice if Indian tribes came up with a way to use the money that is earned from casino gambling, tobacco sales, and other economic interests, and put it into secondary school education and college scholarships. It doesn't seem like that has happened, so far.


You should both look at http://www.finaid.org/otheraid/natamind.phtml

Steve, the tribe next to whose reservation I live, the Tohono O'Odham, which has, I believe, the largest reservation in the US (the size of Connecticut--2.8 million acres), actually runs a community college: http://www.tocc.cc.az.us/index.htm . They also run a casino: http://www.desertdiamondcasino.com/ddc/ecs/main/index.html . I'm not sure to what degree the one pays for the other, but I do know that the casino funds, among other things, free dental care for tribe members and, presumeably, medical care as well. Together with other AZ tribes, it has formed the Inter Tribal Council of AZ which provides members of the tribes with a number of services. See the programs link under: http://www.itcaonline.com/index.html . Again, I don't know specifically where the money for these programs comes from--whether some or most of it comes from casino gaming--but they do provide the services.
#68
The Travelin Man
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/22 10:23:20 (permalink)
BT, I am afraid that your local tribe is more the exception than the rule. My general comment was that more tribes need to find ways to spend this money for education. Again, I don't have any sources to cite, but I know that I read that corruption is rampant (BhamBabe seems to concur).

I do stand by my original statement, though, that pre-college education is what is really lacking. Many Native Americans are not prepared to go to college -- which also results in a lot of scholarship money that is earmarked for NAs going to students who are 1/64th blood, but with strong academic backgrounds (it's all about the reporting -- to get more money donated, the tribes want to say that we gave $XX to students who earned a GPA of Y.YY and had average SAT scores of ZZZZ).

I never said or even implied that every tribe has access to "lucrative" casino gaming and tobacco sales, but the tribes that were the most forward thinking seem to have fared the best in those areas. I wrote my last post before bed, and as I was dozing off, I thought of how Pete Rozelle, then the commissioner of the National Football League, convinced owners from all over the country that the best way for their whole organization to thrive was to agree to share all their revenues. The man was brilliant. He realized that even though the New York and Chicago teams could generate more revenue through their bigger market franchises, the league would be better off if they shared that money with the teams from Green Bay and Cleveland. Mind you, this is oversimplified, and I realize that one NA tribe may not care if another continues to exist, let alone thrive, but shared revenues would seem like one way to help bring all tribes to a more successful level of productivity.
#69
sizz
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/24 12:41:38 (permalink)
Back to illegal (criminal) Immigration.

Here's a AP story you all might be interested in. You Roadfooders that support Illegal (criminal) immigration might want to bone up on your Spanish, for it may come in handy at your next American Baseball Game


The Star-Spangled Banner meets reconquista...and has been renamed "Nuestro Himno" (via AP):

Mexican pop diva Gloria Trevi, Puerto Rican reggaeton star Don Omar and other Latino artists have recorded a bilingual version of the U.S. national anthem in a show of support for migrants in the United States.
The Latino-oriented record label Urban Box Office (UBO) said Friday it would put the new Spanish-English version of "The Star-Spangled Banner" on the market Monday to coincide with the U.S. Senate's debate on immigration legislation.

Congressional debate over immigration bills proposing everything from toughened border security to the legalization of undocumented migrants in America have triggered huge demonstrations across the United States in recent weeks.

"We decided to re-record 'The Star-Spangled Banner' to show our solidarity with the undocumented migrants," said UBO President Adam Kidron. "Today we are Americans and 'The-Star Spangled Banner' represents everything to us."

The recording, dubbed "Nuestro Himno" or "Our Anthem," is set to "urban Latino rhythms" but respects the song's traditional structure, UBO said in a news release. Each artist decided whether to sing in Spanish or English.

The "Nuestro Himno" record will be sold for $10, with a portion going to Washington-based National Capital Immigration Coalition, UBO said.
#70
1bbqboy
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/24 13:45:03 (permalink)
Frank, just so you know,
Puerto Rico is part of our country.
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The Travelin Man
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/24 13:50:25 (permalink)
Don't confuse him with facts.
#72
sizz
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/24 13:55:46 (permalink)
quote:
bill voss Posted - 04/24/2006 : 13:45:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank, just so you know,
Puerto Rico is part of our country.

quote:
stevekoe Posted - 04/24/2006 : 13:50:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't confuse him with facts.

Bill, Steve, just so you both know,
Mexico is not part of our country.
#73
V960
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/24 14:15:48 (permalink)
NOT yet. We're working on it. We need another wave of colonialism here. Mexico, Canada, maybe, and how about South America?
#74
Hillbilly
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/24 14:30:07 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by V960

NOT yet. We're working on it. We need another wave of colonialism here. Mexico, Canada, maybe, and how about South America?

Maybe we just need to "Pottery Barn" them all. This is how we acquired South Korea, Afghanistan, Kosovo, and Iraq. We have already built the empire, but just don't call it by its proper term yet.
#75
sizz
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/05/10 18:18:50 (permalink)
TEXAS DRINKING RULE

A Mexican drinks his beer and suddenly throws
his glass in the air, pulls out his pistol and
shoots the glass to pieces. He says, "In Mexico our
glasses are so cheap we don't need to drink from the
same glass twice."
An Iraqi, obviously impressed by this, drinks
his beer, throws his glass into the air, pulls out
his AK-47 and shoots the glass to pieces. He says,
"In Iraq we have so much sand to make glasses that
we don't need to drink out of the same glass twice
either."
The Texas cowboy, cool as a cucumber, picks up
his beer and drinks it, throws his glass into the
air, pulls out his pistol and shoots the Mexican and
the Iraqi, and catches his glass. He says, "In
America we have so many illegal Mexicans and Arabs
that we don't have to drink with the same ones
twice."
God Bless America!

#76
Fieldthistle
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/05/13 03:11:27 (permalink)
Hello All,
When I started this thread, I added the "be gentle"
I was hoping for good ideas, a bit of anger, and some humour.
For the most part, it has been so.
I smiled at fqczyz's tale just above. Then I thought, well, if we
have violence, you need sex. Think...THINK, of his tale if it
were the American, instead of shooting them, you had sex with a Mexican, an Iraqi, and let's
throw in a Canadian and Japanese. Sex. Then think about it,would you do that? How about your son?
Would you like that to happen to your daughter by some one so arrogant? Let the gun become a penis.
Before I am a Virginian, or Texan, or Mexican, or Iraqi, I am a HUMAN.
As a human, I know we are all screwed up. We need good ideas, anger, joy, and sex, and so much more than
I can say here. But we need to try to get rid of a few things as well, like violence, stupidity, prejudice,
sexism, the revival of disco, movies that are based on old T.V. Shows, (I'm trying to funny here) etc.
I am relucantly coming to the point where I think most of us are good people, even our "enemies," and the only
true path to redemption and peace is individually. It will never happen with governments or businesses.
Their interests suck us in to their agenda because they have control so many aspects of our lives.
But who are you? I mean, the real, eternal, YOU? Or the one you want the products of your loins to remember?
You really matter and what you say and do does matters. No downer here, please...a sense of humour reflects the
joy of God more than any words I have just written.
Take Care,
Fieldthistle



#77
MilwFoodlovers
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/05/13 07:25:47 (permalink)
Fieldthistle, as always, your posts are not only a breath of fresh air, usually if read early in the day, put me in a good mood for the day's journey.
May your BBQ pit always be filled with smokey Q.
Mike
#78
nvb
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/05/16 08:21:41 (permalink)
Funny cartoon but with a message. Language alert.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEl6HdfqWM&search=supernews%20current%20immigration
#79
BT
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/05/17 14:14:47 (permalink)
Next time you hear Mexican government officials--such as President Vincente Fox--lecturing the US on how we deal with this problem, consider:
quote:
Study documents how Mexico treats illegals
By Jim Lamb
Green Valley News
While many call for better treatment in the United States for illegal immigrants—most of them from Mexico—illegal entrants in that country face danger and even death from the government there. That’s the story told recently by The Associated Press which reported how a local man was shot to death by the police at Tultitlan, Mexico,believing he was an illegal immigrant. “One of the saddest national failings on immigration issues in the contradiction in demanding that the North respect immigrants’ rights, which we are not capable of guaranteeing in the south,” said Jose Luis Soberanges, chairman of the National Human Rights commission. It’s a government-funded agency that has documented the abuses south of the U.S. border. The report was compiled last December, The Associated Press said.

Many illegal immigrants in Mexico come from below its southern border,trying to work their way north to the United States. Virginia Sanchez, who lives near the railroad that carries Central Americans north toward the United States,said the recent shooting of the Mexican citizen was not that rare. “At night, you hear the gunshots,and it’s the judiciales” or state police,“chasing the immigrants,”said Sanchez. She added, “It’s not fair to kill these people. It’s not fair in the United States,and it’s not fair here.”

It’s a felony to be an illegal immigrant in Mexico, although a common punishment for those arrested is deportation. Belize and Guatemala are on Mexico’s southern border and El Salvador and Honduras are just a country away.

Money taken by police

The AP account quoted Jose Ramos, 18, of El Salvador, who said he was shaken down repeatedly while heading north. “If you’re carrying any money they take it from you—federal,state,local police,all of them,” said Carlos Lopez of Guatemala. He was hiding near the railroad tracks at Tultitlan. The Mexican government has acknowledged that many federal, state and local officials are on the take from the smugglers who are hauling illegal immigrants north.
The number of illegal immigrants detained in Mexico grew from 138,061 in 2002 to 240,269 last year. Forty-two percent were Guatemalan, 33 percent Honduran and most of the rest Salvadoran. But not all illegal immigrants in Mexico want to reach the United States. Mexico is becoming more reliant on cheap illegal labor and many find jobs there.

jlamb@gvnews.com | 547-9749
#80
NebGuy
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/05/17 15:26:14 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by BT

Next time you hear Mexican government officials--such as President Vincente Fox--lecturing the US on how we deal with this problem, consider:

Another example of "Do as I say not as I do."
#81
The Travelin Man
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/06/07 17:31:22 (permalink)
For those who still want to believe that all undocumented ("illegals" for those of you who feel the need) immigrants are just fruit pickin' rubes....

Princeton Salutatorian Caught in Immigration Snafu
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2046122&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
#82
roossy90
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RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/06/07 17:39:22 (permalink)
quote:
Originally posted by stevekoe

For those who still want to believe that all undocumented ("illegals" for those of you who feel the need) immigrants are just fruit pickin' rubes....

Princeton Salutatorian Caught in Immigration Snafu
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2046122&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

What an impressive feat.. And speaks Latin....
#83
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