Immigration-Let's be gentle

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Fieldthistle
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2006/04/06 16:04:06 (permalink)

Immigration-Let's be gentle

Hello All,
I do not intend for this to be a flaming thread. Just the
opposite. We cannot see each other, do not have to
look at a fellow worker or boss and say what we think
they might want us to say. We can look into our hearts.
The past week the news media has had many stories about
immigration laws.
In my area, Shenandoah Valley of Va., we have so many
latinos, hispanics,russians, and asians that have enriched our
lives, but have also caused problems. But guess what,
we have locals that cause the same problems. It's called
being human. There are many here who resent the legal and
illegal "aliens". I used the word, "aliens" because I believe
it is a matter of an inablitity to communicate, to speak a
common language that makes us distrust and label someone
as "not one of us."
I have enough problems speaking english, if I had to learn
another language, I would dead meat in another country.
What are your feelings about our "new citizens?" And they are
new citizens. And they are not all from spanish speaking countries.
Please think before speaking, be kind, and be honest.
And if this topic gets too hot, moderators, please delete.
Take Care,
Fieldthistle

#1

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    Pwingsx
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/06 16:35:18 (permalink)
    Legal, yes.

    Illegal, no.

    But we're trying to shut the barn after the horse is gone. (I'm sure I'm butchering that metaphor.)
    #2
    Jimeats
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/06 18:01:37 (permalink)
    This is a tough one. I think this debate will go the same route as the National Healh care battle has gone over the years. It will be a long time before I can make up my mind on this issue, too many pros and cons. These politicians arn't stuipid, every time there is something of large contoversy pounding at them something else is brought forth to take the spot light off that hot issue. We as a voting public have to pay a little more attention and put a little pressure on our Congressmen and let them know what you think. Speaker "Tip" O'Neil once said "all politics are local". Look at the banner add at the bottom of this page! Chow Jim
    #3
    BT
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/06 20:15:08 (permalink)
    I have 2 major concerns about the immigration issue. First of all, I recognize that we are "a nation of immigrants" and I generally cherish the melange of cultures that the US has become. Relevent to the topic of Roadfood, I think my life would be a lot poorer if I did not have access to foods from all over the world cooked by immigrant natives of those cultures. My home remains in a "minority majority" town where white Anglos like me are well under 50% of the population--I have lived there for almost 3 decades and love it.

    BUT, lets be frank here. The problem many people see is not "immigrants" or even, so much, "illegal immigrants" but Mexican illegal immigrants. The reason their nationality matters is because Mexico is right next door (unlike Eastern Europe or China or Italy or even Ireland) and, face it, a huge part of what is now the United States used to be part of Mexico. Add to that history the vibrancy of Mexico's modern culture and the fecundity of its citizens and there is a certain justification to the concern that what we have grown up with as America and American culture, could be overwhelmed by waves of uncontolled immigration from south of the border. And in the back of some of our minds lurks the demon of the possibility that, in the eventuality that Mexican immigrants who have come here mainly to earn money to send home, not because they want to be Americans, and who retain residual loyalty to Mexico become the majority in all of the Southwestern states, could there arrise a movement to rejoin those states with Mexico? So the problem becomes not so much immigrants per se but immigrants who may not want what previous generations of immigrants wanted--to be Americans.

    My second concern is simply with the question of legality. As I implied above, I welcome with open arms those people from other countries who come here legally and want to join we native born in the American adventure, but I have trouble welcoming those whose first act in coming here is to break our laws. I feel about that about the same way I feel about speeding, income tax evasion, cheating in high school and lots of other "laws" that all sorts of people feel justified in breaking. I understand why they do it and I've had the urge myself, but when it comes right down to it I think less of them for doing it and I'm inclined to cheer when they get caught and punished. So I have to line up with those who don't want to "reward" lawbreaking--and I cannot sanction fixing the problem by just legalizing the behavior.

    My bottom line then is this--we need to do whatever is necessary to keep out those who would enter illegaly. I think the most effective thing would be stiff employer sanctions, but I also favor more enforcement at the border. Once we have got control of the border, though, I favor a modest "temporary worker program" (modest because I question how many of those "jobs Americans don't want" they would want if the employers had to raise wages because they couldn't hire illegals cheaply) and a generous policy of legal immigration for people who actually want to be Americans (as opposed to just wanting to milk our economy and send the money to another country still seen as "home").
    #4
    Theedge
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/06 23:18:32 (permalink)
    There is only one issue, the rest is emotion. Our borders are wide open (and not to just hispanics) they shouldn't be. The only starting point is to fix that most basic problem and go from there.
    #5
    V960
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/07 09:52:57 (permalink)
    We should let everyone who wants to come in do so. I live in NC, the third most popular destination for Mexicans (behind Texas and California). My seventeen year old daughter speaks fluent Spanish from school and working in our fields w/ our pickers.

    We have a picture on our wall showing a sign that states "No Irish Allowed". Another beside it states "Whites Only", we've moved past this...America is THE land of opportunity.

    I hire temps to pick my crops and pay them a living wage. The paper work is in order and I have no reason to question their status but...well...whatever, I always wonder.

    By the way the grilled beef steak on top of the grapevine cuttings is unreal. The Mexican workers will share their lunch w/ us willingly. I refused for years until one of the guys told us I was insulting them. I felt I was imposing. We now raise extra chickens each year in advance of their arrival. Too bad for the chickens.

    #6
    The Travelin Man
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/07 11:59:46 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by V960

    We have a picture on our wall showing a sign that states "No Irish Allowed".


    Why am I reminded of the movie "Blazing Saddles?"

    #7
    Jimeats
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/07 13:13:14 (permalink)
    I have a sign that says Sailors and Dogs Keep Off The Grass. WW2 era from Norfolk. Chow Jim
    #8
    BT
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/07 13:52:54 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by V960

    We should let everyone who wants to come in do so. I live in NC, the third most popular destination for Mexicans (behind Texas and California). My seventeen year old daughter speaks fluent Spanish from school and working in our fields w/ our pickers.

    We have a picture on our wall showing a sign that states "No Irish Allowed". Another beside it states "Whites Only", we've moved past this...America is THE land of opportunity.

    I hire temps to pick my crops and pay them a living wage. The paper work is in order and I have no reason to question their status but...well...whatever, I always wonder.

    By the way the grilled beef steak on top of the grapevine cuttings is unreal. The Mexican workers will share their lunch w/ us willingly. I refused for years until one of the guys told us I was insulting them. I felt I was imposing. We now raise extra chickens each year in advance of their arrival. Too bad for the chickens.




    One gets a different perspective when one has to dodge overloaded trucks full of folks fleeing north from the Border Patrol up the main road through town (I-19) on a near-daily basis.

    I also have to wonder what you would have to pay your workers if there were no illegals, regardless of status of the folks you actually employ. I believe you are a beneficiary of the status quo as an employer. The rest of us are not so lucky.
    #9
    V960
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/07 14:36:35 (permalink)
    I pay ten dollars an hour for field work. We used to pay by the pound produced until folks started sneeking their kids into the fields.

    To be honest, I haven't had a black or white person apply for work in our fields in ten years. I advertise, ask the local temp places and the only folks who show up at harvest time are Latino.

    I'm sorry but cutting aspargus, picking tomatoes and blueberries doesn't take a college degree. The Latinos do a GREAT job, pay taxes they'll never collect on and show up on time. I made a contribution to the local high school many years ago to have students work my crops...cost me a years crop. They showed up late, hung over and basically played kick the produce for a morning. I didn't make the contribution but showed pictures of the damage to the booster club.

    BT, who do the trucks of Latinos hurt? They are just the latest group wanting to come to America. The Irish, Italians, and any number of other groups have come here escaping their own country's problems. We should open our arms and welcome them. They don't force down our wages, they raise our work resolve.

    Open the gates...let them in.

    #10
    dreamzpainter
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/07 15:27:36 (permalink)
    I think Jay Leno had it right... All the mexicans should return to mexico..in 2 weeks americans will be sending buses down and begging them to come back! I've had the pleasure of working with various groups of mexicans and have always found them polite and hard workers with the added benefit of real mexican food. They are illegal for the same reason I can't get a semi-raw steak. There is so much redtape to be documented starting with a birth certificate and god forbid if its crumbled or not totally legible. Cut the redtape, streamline it, let them come in, work and go home then return. I guess it wouldn't be politically correct to wave thru a carfull of apparent field workers but stop a group of middle easterners. It just seems that like the war on drugs this is just another huge money pit we will never get out of.
    #11
    V960
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/07 15:52:41 (permalink)
    In another three weeks we'll have our end of asparagus season party. Two goats will meet their maker and many gallons of refrieed beans will be go away. Tecate will go away to the tune of two kegs.
    #12
    Sundancer7
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/07 15:58:57 (permalink)
    V960: How about inviting your roadfood friends. I do not know if I ever had goat before but I sure have had my share of asparagus. I do not like some of the after effects though.

    Paul E. Smith
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    #13
    sizz
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/07 20:55:18 (permalink)
    Mr. President I'm headed to Mexico

    David M. Bresnahan
    April 1, 2006
    NewsWithViews.com

    Dear President Bush:

    I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across
    the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this.

    I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here.

    So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

    1. Free medical care for my entire family.

    2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

    3. All government forms need to be printed in English.

    4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.

    5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.

    6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.

    7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

    8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.

    9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.

    10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.

    11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

    12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.

    13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.


    I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

    However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with your VP

    Thank you so much for your kind help.





    #14
    mayor al
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/07 21:39:07 (permalink)
    My main concern is that the MELTING POT we used to proclaim is now called a MOSAIC. In the past , even though it took time and effort on the part of the immigrant (and the residents of the USA), they strived to become 'Americans'. They kept whatever parts of their culture they wanted to preserve in the home, or in the communities where they lived, but they OVER TIME became our grandparents or parents or neighbors. They were expected to be active parts of the American Community, paying taxes, voting, obtaining legal recognition for driving and whatever other legal processes we all were expected to share. They bought homes and were drafted and served on jury duty and learned what this country was all about. Life for them was far more than a field job and a semi-annual trip home and back. I think the public is making a mistake in thinking that the majority of the illegals are field hands doing cotton-picking or whatever on farms. While there are a large number of farm workers, there are also thousands of city folks working a variety of other jobs in this country.
    Control of the border is vital...if not to 'legalize' whatever immigration laws get worked out, then to try to stop the flow of drugs that enter using the same routes and methods. Not all illegals are Latino coming in from Mexico. In 1999 we watched from our fishing boat while a freighter unload well over a hundred Chinese in Ensenada Bay (Baja). They were all headed for SoCal according to the boat captain who told us at the time that he used to make good money hauling the Chinese 'illegals'from Ensenada to the border where they entered the USA like the Latino and other groups did. This has got to stop.
    Today in many places that concept of The Melting Pot has been buried under the guise of allowing the immigrant to maintain a dual identity (or in many cases hundreds of dual identities.) Billboards in California advertise where people can go on the internet to obtain documentation for Social Security and Immigration cards for whatever is needed. Literally billions of dollars in cash are being exported to the home countries by workers who work here but don't consider the USA "Home", so our economy suffers the loss of fiscal resources. New Immigrants insist on maintaining the old culture in the new environment and that is causing problems within the country that we are just now beginning to recognize. The answer is not to lock them out. The answer IS to control the access and enforce the requirements for citizenship that puts the new resident into an AMERICAN environment...Not a transplanted worker away from home.
    #15
    BT
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/08 01:31:43 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by V960


    BT, who do the trucks of Latinos hurt? They are just the latest group wanting to come to America. The Irish, Italians, and any number of other groups have come here escaping their own country's problems. We should open our arms and welcome them. They don't force down our wages, they raise our work resolve.



    Aside from whoever is in the way when they crash, they also hurt users of Tucson's emergency rooms when the victims--40 or 50 at a time--overwhelm both the ER's physical ability to provide care and financial resources. And by the way, I didn't even mention the running gun battles between rival coyotes, often with the illegals in the back of the truck, on both I-10 and I-19. This remains the "wild west" but for a different reason than historically.

    Once again, no part of America ever had a land border with Ireland or Italy and no large American cities were within walking distance of Ireland or Italy. No Irishman or Italian made the arduous trans-Atlantic voyage with the expectation to make the return trip on a regular basis, continue to vote in Irish or Italian elections, and generally continue to act as an Irishman or Italian. They came here to be Americans with the knowledge there was probably no going back. I too would welcome folks who do that now as I said in my first post on the subject, but we need to stop illegal border crossing so that we may set up an effective mechanism to separate those who want to come here to violate American law on the way to exploiting American prosperity and then to go "home" with the spoils from those who, like the Irish and Italians of a century ago, want to be Americans.

    Essentially, I agree with the Mayor.
    #16
    beentheredonethat
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/08 13:27:15 (permalink)
    It's a long article, but it's interesting.

    http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?id=11927
    #17
    V960
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/08 13:53:49 (permalink)
    Gentlemen,
    We will have to agree to disagree. The Irish came here because the potato crop got hit w/ the "rot". The Italians came here to teach the Irish how to make a good red sauce. The Chinese came for anything better than what they had...sad when you consider what they got.

    We are the country of opportunity. Work hard, pledge your car and start a company. Mow lawns, work in a fast food place, do nails (actually that's a Vietnamese thing), or work high steel and your kids (I'm sorry but any good person, IMHO, only cares what his or her kids can attain) can work in an office and have heart problems.

    My father graduated college, his father did not. I graduated college and got a masters. I am over half Irish by blood...kinda unusual in America to be fully half anything.

    We are a melting pot. The Mexicans go back because they don't want to bring their children and wives through the desert to the states. What made us great was our open borders...open them again.
    #18
    sizz
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/08 16:26:55 (permalink)
    quote:
    V960 Posted - 04/08/2006 : 13:53:49
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Gentlemen,
    We will have to agree to disagree. The Irish came here because the potato crop got hit w/ the "rot". The Italians came here to teach the Irish how to make a good red sauce. The Chinese came for anything better than what they had...sad when you consider what they got.


    yes and they all came here legally................ The trouble with you V960 is that you're having a difficult time understanding the difference between legal and the criminal illegal
    I would venture to say that not one of us here has any problem whatsoever with legal immigration into the United States of America
    Twelve million illegals making a mockery of my country is more then I can bear. I will fight your ideology on this immigration issue tooth and nail and will take this fight to my grave. I will never sell my country short just so I can serve asparagus on my dinner table. I will take this opportunity to declare on my legal immigrant grandfather's memory that I fpczyz from this day forward will never eat another morsel of asparagus as long as I live, lest one red cent would go to your farm.
    I will honor and help in any way I can all legal immigrants to this country.
    As a public servant of my community I will celibrate the Legal immigrants heritage and always make room for their culture. I will embrace them with welcoming arms.
    V960, my suggestion to you is that you attend a US citizenship swearing in ceremony to see the thousands of legal immigrants who waited years in their former country and years in this country to become Americans. It is not easy to be a part of this great America. One does not just sneak in under the cover of darkness, pick asparagus for three months and spend the rest of the year hanging around the parking lot of Home Depot.This is not how one becomes an American.
    #19
    Gizmolito
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/08 19:17:52 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by fpczyz

    quote:
    V960 Posted - 04/08/2006 : 13:53:49
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Gentlemen,
    We will have to agree to disagree. The Irish came here because the potato crop got hit w/ the "rot". The Italians came here to teach the Irish how to make a good red sauce. The Chinese came for anything better than what they had...sad when you consider what they got.


    yes and they all came here legally................ The trouble with you V960 is that you're having a difficult time understanding the difference between legal and the criminal illegal
    I would venture to say that not one of us here has any problem whatsoever with legal immigration into the United States of America
    Twelve million illegals making a mockery of my country is more then I can bear. I will fight you and your idiotic ideology tooth and nail and will take this fight to my grave. I will never sell my country short just so I can serve asparagus on my dinner table. I will take this opportunity to declare on my legal immigrant grandfather's memory that I fpczyz from this day forward will never eat another morsel of asparagus as long as I live, lest one red cent would go to your farm.
    I will honor and help in any way I can all legal immigrants to this country.
    As a public servant of my community I will celibrate the Legal immigrants heritage and always make room for their culture. I will embrace them with welcoming arms.
    V960, my suggestion to you is that you attend a US citizenship swearing in ceremony to see the thousands of legal immigrants who waited years in their former country and years in this country to become Americans. It is not easy to be a part of this great America. One does not just sneak in under the cover of darkness, pick asparagus for three months and spend the rest of the year hanging around the parking lot of Home Depot.This is not how one becomes an American.





    Not exactly keeping it gentle, are you?

    The migrant workers move around the country and pick what's is in season, not "pick asparagus for three months and spend the rest of the year hanging around the parking lot of Home Depot." It isn't up to the farmer to determine whose legal or not...that is the responsibility of the Broker or middle man.

    Some stopped moving around and settled down in places like Indiana after years of tomato picking. Do you have a problem with that?

    Not that he needs anyone to speak for him, but V960 said their paperwork was in order but who knows?

    You will need to boycott most everything in the produce section, and primo cigars, hand rolled by Hispanics.
    #20
    The Travelin Man
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/08 19:45:11 (permalink)
    He'll also need to boycott hotels (ever see the people who clean the room when you are out); restaurants; most clothing manufacturers; gas stations; and eventually, his trash is going to pile up, because I bet most of the people who come by to pick it up may be immigrants -- and some of them illegals.

    Of course, no one has mentioned that one way to stem the flow of illegals immigrants from Mexico is to make the Mexican economy stronger. NAFTA was supposed to do that, but then everyone got their drawers in a knot when companies started moving some of their production to Mexico. Frank's suggestion above in his "humorous" letter to Pres. Bush indicates that someone would WANT to do that move to Mexico. Truth is -- would you want your kids educated in Mexican schools that so many people are risking their lives to get out of? Would you want Mexican health care -- free or not? I dare say -- not many of us would trade places with any illegal immigrant in this country, if given the opportunity.
    #21
    sizz
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/08 20:18:01 (permalink)
    quote:
    Gizmolito Posted - 04/08/2006 : 19:17:52
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Not exactly keeping it gentle, are you?

    The migrant workers move around the country and pick what's is in season, not "pick asparagus for three months and spend the rest of the year hanging around the parking lot of Home Depot." It isn't up to the farmer to determine whose legal or not...that is the responsibility of the Broker or middle man.

    Some stopped moving around and settled down in places like Indiana after years of tomato picking. Do you have a problem with that?

    Not that he needs anyone to speak for him, but V960 said their paperwork was in order but who knows?

    You will need to boycott most everything in the produce section, and primo cigars, hand rolled by Hispanics.
    quote:
    stevekoe Posted - 04/08/2006 : 19:45:11
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    He'll also need to boycott hotels (ever see the people who clean the room when you are out); restaurants; most clothing manufacturers; gas stations; and eventually, his trash is going to pile up, because I bet most of the people who come by to pick it up may be immigrants -- and some of them illegals.








    Dear Kind and Gentle People: .......... Let it be known, I am not protesting or boycotting what the illegals do here in our country. That would be to difficult so...................
    I am only protesting and boycotting what V960 does
    If the truth be known I always hated asparagus anyway .......................... lol
    #22
    stephiegirl
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/08 23:42:34 (permalink)
    You've brought an interesting and very thought provoking topic. I would have to agree though that people who have lived here for years hoping to become American citizens by doing all the studying that they have done have shown to me that they are more dedicated to becoming an American than those who just feel like they can cross the border and receive special treatment just because they made it here. To think that Mexicans ( it seems like this whole topic is because of them) come to the US because they make more money makes no sense. Why don't they try going to college and getting a degree? No one can say that they couldn't go to college because they couldn't get financial support is crazy because they seem to make more exceptions for people everyday. You can get scholarships for being Indian or for being a minority but they don't just hand over money for being white. When you look at getting financial aid for a white person and they look at the parents income it has to be so low or else they just throw out your application. I'm sorry but some things just are really mixed up!!
    #23
    Zman
    Hamburger
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/09 03:19:11 (permalink)
    Standby for a post from Lleechef My friends . . . ." />

    The "Manifesto" will follow soon!!!
    #24
    lleechef
    Sirloin
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/09 03:24:40 (permalink)
    I hesitated a long time before replying to this thread because this is a touchy subject and I try to avoid them.

    However......being in the restaurant biz for over 15 years in the Boston area, a series of events happened that changed my mind forever about immigration and illegals. Open a new restaurant, hire the staff, which includes dishwashers, cleaners, prep cooks. The American dishwashers last 2 nights and walk out in the middle of the dinner rush. The American cleaners don't show up in the morning to clean the dining room/bar area/rest rooms. The American prep cook lasts roughly 4 days and doesn't show again.

    Enter the Brazilians. A Gift from Above for your work force. They (men and women) will wash dishes, scrub the saute pans until they shine, will clean the bathrooms, the dining room and do all the prep and do the running for the line cooks all night, scrub the floors and the mats and leave the restaurant shining every night. Were these folks LEGAL? Hell no. They all had fake green cards and fake SS numbers. We knew it. But........and here's the BIG but......

    THEY WERE LOYAL. To a fault. I taught them English and moved them up the ranks, from dishwasher to prep to pantry, to grill, to saute, to expeditor (my job). All they hoped for was to become LEGAL so they could bring wife and child to the US or have the papers to go back to Brazil and visit the much missed family.

    I personally sponsored two Brazilians during the course of my tenure in Boston. The first was Leonardo, who I got a green card for so he could visit his mother in Brazil. He sent me on a Brazilian vacation of a lifetime and I met all the family. The second was Lessio, with my help he also got a green card and was able to bring his wife and son to the US. Not all illegals are moochers. I saw people in Brazil living in TV and refrigerator cardboard boxes under bridges. They want a better life, as do a lot of people around the world.

    I have a friend who escaped VietNam during the war, got sent to a refugee camp in the Philippines for TWO years, then finally made it to the US, Boston. His first job was to clean 2,000 lbs. of squid a day. When he left VietNam, his wife was pregnant. He finally made enough money to send wife and daughter to the US, three years after he arrived in Boston. His wife worked in a "sweat shop" 16 hours a day.

    They had three more daughters. The eldest that got whisked out of VietNam in a wooden boat is now in Harvard Medical School. The other daughters are not far behind. As for their father, Mr. Lee.......if you all wonder why I'm the biggest cheerleader for the Boston restaurant The Daily Catch........it's because he's been the chef there for 20 years and he also worked for me from time to time, and he and his wife and his girls are AWESOME. As are all the Brazilians that worked for me.
    #25
    V960
    Double Chili Cheeseburger
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/09 11:54:35 (permalink)
    Years ago if you showed up it was legal. Just get here...the US would call you Without Passport. Now the laws are BS. Set foot on US soil and "come on in" as long as you come in from saltwater. Get caught on the water by the Coast Guard and you're headed back to where ever. Freshwater (read Rio Grande) and you're "wetback".

    BTY unless you visit the Charlotte Farmer's Market you'll never see my asparagus. We only raise 4,000 pounds a year. But boycott it all you want...it's coming from California mostly and I'm sure they import the Amish to harvest it. I understand the Amish are harvesting all the Central Valley produce now.

    Kidding aside...My grandparents would have been refused entry to this country during the potato famine in Ireland w/ the existing laws of today. My wife's family came from Germany in the early 1800's (we have a "Century Farm" over 100 years in the same family) but would be refused today.

    Open the gates...let anyone who can get here become an American. Learn English, learn our civics lessons, anything reasonable (which was not required years ago) and bring in the "huddled masses". Open your hearts.

    It's only illegal if a law is passed(which has been done). The Congress passed an amendment banning alcohol many years ago. Was that correct?

    Ah Hell...I'm a terminal social liberal and fiscal conservative. But IMHO America is the place of the displaced. Your relegion is correct, your skin color is acceptable,or your taste in food doesn't work....come here PLEASE. We'll be better for your presence.
    #26
    The Travelin Man
    Filet Mignon
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/09 12:05:26 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by stephiegirl

    Why don't they try going to college and getting a degree? No one can say that they couldn't go to college because they couldn't get financial support is crazy because they seem to make more exceptions for people everyday. You can get scholarships for being Indian or for being a minority but they don't just hand over money for being white. When you look at getting financial aid for a white person and they look at the parents income it has to be so low or else they just throw out your application.



    How many illegal immigrants are actually qualified to attend American colleges. Even open enrollment community colleges require English skills that are sufficient enough to write term papers, read, and perform basic mathematical functions.

    Let's say that "they" can handle the curriculum of the college. How many places will enroll illegals into the college system? Not many. California (actually, I think CA will enroll children of illegals) will. I know that it has been debated here in Florida. Then there is the debate over whether illegals are, in fact, citizens of the state where they wish to attend college (in-state versus out-of-state tuition rates). Even in places were illegals can attend college, their opportunity to do so is limited by the fact that they need to earn money for their families.

    Schools hold a lot of their admission information close to the vest, but I found an article from the Harvard Crimson that states that Harvard (one of the more minority friendly schools in the country) admitted approximately 1/3 of it's freshman class as "minorities" (mind you, not illegals). One-third? And, that is supposed to be a lot? That means that two-thirds are white, anglo-saxons, no? Of course, those are just students who gained admission - it says nothing about being able to afford Harvard (although, Harvard does claim to meet 100% of a student's financial need).

    Your last statement is pretty ridiculous. Financial aid is not determined by "parents income" (sic), it is determined by Expected Family Contribution (EFC), which is determined by a number of factors, including parents' income. MOST of the aid dispersed in this country is a factor of EFC. While there are some specialty scholarships available to people of hispanic backgrounds, African-American backgrounds, and the like, there are also specialty scholarships available to students who want to pursue teaching as a major, participate in the INTEL or Westinghouse Science Fairs, or pursue a career in the health services fields (and many, many more). Of course, people who claim that there is no financial aid available to whites are most likely talking about white students with below average grades (relative to the academic institution) or test scores with no defined career goals, who all want to apply to the same 30-40 selective universities -- and with parents who actually do make plenty of money for their children to attend college.

    I have people who call my office all the time with EFCs in the $60k plus range who want to know why we can't offer more aid. They have story after story as to why they cannot pay the bill -- but, they are calling me from their convertible BMW on the way to the club to play golf. Minority students, many of whom have EFCs of under $6k will figure out a way to get the money to pay for the education that they feel is worth the money.

    I again stand by my previous comments that most folks here wouldn't change places with any illegals (or any minorities, for that matter) because they have better access to financial aid.
    #27
    MilwFoodlovers
    Filet Mignon
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/09 13:09:17 (permalink)
    As an enrolled tribal member, I searched out Native American grants and found none, so I put myself through school. I'm at a loss as to how to reply to some of these statements but stephiegirl are you jealous of some minorities? A white American female will find few jobs, doors or dwelling locations closed to her and like someone else pointed out, I doubt that you'd want to trade places with most any immigrant, legal or not. My ancestors might argue that 99% of everyone here might be considered illegal immigrants
    V960, if you ever have a surplus of your asparagus, let me know as I'll give you double the going price as I'm sure it's worth that; it would be to me.
    I'd point out to those folks worried about someone flying a Mexican flag, in Milwaukee we have generations of Mexican-Americans that have now retired and receive a pension (at least for now). They could easily move back to Mexico where that pension could significantly raise their standard of living. They don't. They consider Milwaukee their home.
    I do however agree with the jingoistic in that I don't understand bi-lingual forms. Unless every sign and form is printed in every conceivable language, they just aren't fair and should be in English only. This is mandatory for all airline pilots and traffic controllers throughout the world and it works for them. It would seem a small price to pay to be in America and can only help someone that wishes to better oneself.
    #28
    stephiegirl
    Cheeseburger
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/09 16:28:01 (permalink)
    Excuse me stevekoe let me clarify my error about financial aid. I should have said student loans instead of financial aid because yes they look at the parent's income to decide how much money should be eligible to them. I was going to add more to this, but I'm sure you would just have something negative to say about it just as on several other topics on this site you seem to always have something critical to say even on topics that are just supposed to be for fun. Sorry we are all not super geniuses like you.
    #29
    The Travelin Man
    Filet Mignon
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    RE: Immigration-Let's be gentle 2006/04/09 17:10:20 (permalink)
    I usually only have "something negative" to say when someone states something as fact which can easily be refuted as total bull. I never even said anything in my last post about places that will "throw out your (financial aid) application." There are no colleges that throw out any aid applications for any reason. While we are dispelling myths, there are also no colleges who throw away any applications because they don't meet a specific minimum grade average or SAT score (although, there are some I would like to see make the shredder before they hit my desk!). My gut tells me that you have nothing to add to this discussion because you are just plain wrong.

    As far as "student loans" go, every student attending college that is either a citizen or a resident alien is eligible for the same student loan. It is a Stafford Loan and freshman can borrow the grand sum of $2,625 during their first year -- that number increases in subsequent years. EVERYONE is eligible to borrow that money -- and most schools that offer need-based grants will reduce those grants if students are not willing to borrow, as well. There is an additional loan program called the Perkins Loan. Perkins are need-based loans, but there is serious talk that Congress will end the funding for the Perkins program next year. MOST other loans that are available for funding higher education need to be applied for and the borrower needs to be credit-worthy in the same manner that one would apply for a mortgage. So, since you need to be a citizen or a resident alien to qualify for "student loans" and you need to be credit-worthy to obtain "gap loans", which pool of money do you feel would be available to illegals?

    #30
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