Hot!Interior walls

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Monkeytrot
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2011/08/20 21:50:33 (permalink)

Interior walls

Some tips please

I'm about to buy a 2001 8 x 16 pace enclosed cargo trailer and convert it into a concession trailer and was wondering what to line the interior walls with. I have seen both aluminum and vinyl but not sure which would be best. Also what kind of Insulation should I use?

Thanks in advance
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    THE WILD DOG
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/20 21:57:15 (permalink)
    styrofoam insulation and either white metal walls or FRP vinyl walls
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    Monkeytrot
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 07:57:28 (permalink)
    Thanks wild dog

    Live in the Rep of Panama I will see what materials are available here. I have seen on some websites people using a vinyl covered plywood..... Do you know anything about this?
    post edited by Monkeytrot - 2011/08/21 12:08:12
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    BackAlleyBurger
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 09:08:16 (permalink)
    what your looking for is FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) sheets that will install over the plywood....
    being in panama i would stay away from regular "white" styrofoam, it will soak up moisture like a sponge and cause you corrosion and mildew problems.....
    what you want is the pink or blue styroboard stuff like from home depot, it is closed cell cross linked something or the other and wont soak up moisture....
     
    and you want stainless steel around your cooking area, same idea, thin sheets over the plywood.....
    #4
    BackAlleyBurger
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 09:10:45 (permalink)
    being in panama also i would look into a thermal barrier sheet under the pink/blue board...... your summer weather pretty much year round right ?
     
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    BackAlleyBurger
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 09:16:22 (permalink)
    this is a plan for my walls, different construction from what you will be looking at, but is a good show of the layers and materials

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    edwmax
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 11:38:23 (permalink)
    BackAlleyBurger

    what your looking for is FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) sheets that will install over the plywood....


    and you want stainless steel around your cooking area, same idea, thin sheets over the plywood.....

     
    In some areas of installation that I've dealt with, this is not acceptable.   ... Check Code requirements if any applies.    ... But the problem stems from moisture & mold in environments where food is stored or prepared.    .... The usual requirement is that all materials be impervious to moisture so as to prevent the growth of molds & fungus.   In kitchens (concession truck/trailer) there is a high concentration of moisture & humidity that will penetrate the walls and promote growth of mold.   ... Also, the kitchen is constantly washed down floors & walls and another source of moisture to penetrate the walls or floor.
     
    Codes require a 'sanitary & moisture-proof' construction to prevent mold contamination.  
    therefore:
    • Interior wall surface should be waterproof panel with an easy to clean surface.  RFP, Plastic, or metal
    • Interior substrate panel should also be waterproof; or be sealed (both sides & cut edges) with resin or poly if using plywood.   Water-proof hardboard can be used here.
    • Under the substrate panel and over the studs & insulation, install a vapor barrier (polyethylene) to prevent moisture/water penetration into the wall.
    • Insulation should be closed cell type and water-proof.  ... Styrofoam is usually open cell and not water-proof; and just coating the surface to make it water-proof is usually acceptable.  The problem is when the surface is punctured or torn water can enter.
    I hate to see a few months or a couple of years after finishing your build-out a bad smell develops requiring the truck/trailer to be gutted to get rid of the mold.   ... Some lucky vendors may never have a mold problem and the HD Inspector may not pay attention to the wall details; but why chance it.
     
    Another item noted above:  SS sheets over plywood at the cooking equipment area & wall.  This is a fire hazard.  The SS can get hot enough for the plywood to start burning inside of the wall without anyone knowing until to late. And, the polystyrene insulation is flammable if not treated with a flame retardant.  ... Use fire-rated drywall over the plywood (or without plywood) and under the SS sheet.    ... I think standard 1/2" drywall is about 30 min fire-rating (???).  A fire burning in a trailer for 30 min, it's total anyway.
    post edited by edwmax - 2011/08/21 12:16:38
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    Monkeytrot
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 12:16:21 (permalink)
    Thanks for the info guys
     
    I know for sure I can get the aluminum sheets for the interior walls but Im kinda weighing up the different options and thinking about overall weight of the trialer.
     
    Thats a good point about the weather as it can get fairly hot round these parts.
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    BackAlleyBurger
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 15:05:54 (permalink)
    am i missing something here ?? so your saying i have to install a layer of plastic...... before i install a layer of .........plastic ??
     
    i really want to see someone with sheetrock for trailer walls..... there is a reason RV manufacturers use the 18 dollar a sheet composite paneling instead of the 5 dollar a sheet sheetrock.......
     
    the auto-ignition point of plywood is about 800*, and that is with air(oxygen) available...... so after you melt a hole in the stainless(about 1500*) and figure out a way to supply air to the plywood underneath, you MIGHT have something to worry about
     
     
    edwmax

    BackAlleyBurger

    what your looking for is FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) sheets that will install over the plywood....


    and you want stainless steel around your cooking area, same idea, thin sheets over the plywood.....


    In some areas of installation that I've dealt with, this is not acceptable.   ... Check Code requirements if any applies.    ... But the problem stems from moisture & mold in environments where food is stored or prepared.    .... The usual requirement is that all materials be impervious to moisture so as to prevent the growth of molds & fungus.   In kitchens (concession truck/trailer) there is a high concentration of moisture & humidity that will penetrate the walls and promote growth of mold.   ... Also, the kitchen is constantly washed down floors & walls and another source of moisture to penetrate the walls or floor.

    Codes require a 'sanitary & moisture-proof' construction to prevent mold contamination.  
    therefore:
    • Interior wall surface should be waterproof panel with an easy to clean surface.  RFP, Plastic, or metal
    • Interior substrate panel should also be waterproof; or be sealed (both sides & cut edges) with resin or poly if using plywood.   Water-proof hardboard can be used here.
    • Under the substrate panel and over the studs & insulation, install a vapor barrier (polyethylene) to prevent moisture/water penetration into the wall.
    • Insulation should be closed cell type and water-proof.  ... Styrofoam is usually open cell and not water-proof; and just coating the surface to make it water-proof is usually acceptable.  The problem is when the surface is punctured or torn water can enter.
    I hate to see a few months or a couple of years after finishing your build-out a bad smell develops requiring the truck/trailer to be gutted to get rid of the mold.   ... Some lucky vendors may never have a mold problem and the HD Inspector may not pay attention to the wall details; but why chance it.

    Another item noted above:  SS sheets over plywood at the cooking equipment area & wall.  This is a fire hazard.  The SS can get hot enough for the plywood to start burning inside of the wall without anyone knowing until to late. And, the polystyrene insulation is flammable if not treated with a flame retardant.  ... Use fire-rated drywall over the plywood (or without plywood) and under the SS sheet.    ... I think standard 1/2" drywall is about 30 min fire-rating (???).  A fire burning in a trailer for 30 min, it's total anyway.


    #9
    edwmax
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 17:05:59 (permalink)
    BackAlleyBurger

    am i missing something here ?? so your saying i have to install a layer of plastic...... before i install a layer of .........plastic ??

    i really want to see someone with sheetrock for trailer walls..... there is a reason RV manufacturers use the 18 dollar a sheet composite paneling instead of the 5 dollar a sheet sheetrock.......

    the auto-ignition point of plywood is about 800*, and that is with air(oxygen) available...... so after you melt a hole in the stainless(about 1500*) and figure out a way to supply air to the plywood underneath, you MIGHT have something to worry about



     
    One.  ... If you are sealing the joints of the plastic panel then, no you wouldn't need the polyethylene sheet.    The idea is to keep moisture/water out of the wall the start with.   So you're not willing to go an extra step to insure that if the surface panel is cracked water still can't get into the wall?
     
    Two.   I didn't suggest sheet rocking all of the walls. Only behind the cooking equipment.  Other fire-retard panels can work here too.   ... OH ... BTW ... by the time the SS burns through at 1500 deg. the plywood & Pink board is already on fire and burned/melted though to the out side of the wall (AIR!!!)!    the sheet rock is not for a structural value, but for it's non-combustible characteristics and protection of the plywood.     ... It's your trailer do what you want.      In most other commercial applications (kitchens), a 1 hour or more Fire Rock is required in these locations.
    #10
    Dr of BBQ
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 18:57:04 (permalink)
    edwnmax, come on get real here. Did you at some time work for our zoning department under a different name? LOL
     
    What states have a code for sheetrock behind a steel wall? Every code I have seen and most vent hood manufactures list them, and all that I have read call for a 2 inch dead air space, and that's it.
     
    I have never heard of a truck owner or trailer crew turning a hose on to wash interior walls. It's just not done. And if your hand washing walls you'll never get enough water into the joints between sections to cause a problem. You just don't run amok with soap and water to clean the interior of a truck or trailer. Sheet-rock sucks up water and feeds mold like Popeye eating spinach.LOL ........NOT  my best ever analogy.
     
    Before any fire,cooking heat,or temp near 1500 degrees the Ansul or other fire protection system will go off. And you couldn't stand to be in a truck or trailer at 300 degrees let alone 1500. There is no need for sheet-rock anywhere in a truck or trailer.It's just not done, to my knowledge.
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    Monkeytrot
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 21:44:33 (permalink)
    Thanks for the info guys .... Didn't mean to start an argument but I guess that's what forums are for....... Anyway I haven't even got my trailer yet but it should be being shipped down here to panama from Miami this week..

    Not sure how it will turn out as I do not have any kind of DIY experience but it sounds like the good folk on this forum havensome great advise. I'm looking at getting this trailer decked out within a month. The trailer it self looks in great shape so I'm not too worried about the exterior but interior will need a lot of work.

    I will try and attach a pic
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    edwmax
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/21 23:14:35 (permalink)
    Dr BBQ
     
    No I didn’t work for your Zoning Dept.   … What I refer to is basic requirements of the National Fire Protection Code, of which parts of, are included in Building Codes and Mechanical Codes.
     
    … What states have a code for sheetrock behind a steel wall? Every code I have seen and most vent hood manufactures list them, and all that I have read call for a 2 inch dead air space, and that's it.  ….
     
     
    SS sheet over plywood is not a steel wall.   It is a wall with combustible material.   The SS is NO protection for the plywood and the wall is still classified as a combustible wall.  Nowhere did I state drywall behind the SS was a code requirement.  … Yes, even with a Drywall over the plywood, the wall is still combustible; but the drywall will provide a little protection;   a lot more than SS.  The SS is for easy cleaning of grease.
     
    http://www2.iccsafe.org/states/Seattle/seattle_residential/PDFs_residential/Chapter%2013.pdf    … General Mechanical System Requirements;   Table M1306.2 list different types of wall construction and reduced ‘combustible ’clearance’ acceptable.   The Table is for appliances, vent pipes and hoods.      ....Actually, where metal sheet is used for the protection of combustible wall materials, a 1-inch air gap is required with the top, & bottom of the gap open.  See details shown.  I'm sure other non-combustible, heat insulating materials (mineral wool batts) could be used under the metal sheet.   ... Better yet, remove the plywood & wood studs (all combustible material) in these areas.

     
    http://www.sfm.ne.gov/publications/pdf/kitchenhoodinstall.pdf  … Kitchen Hood Installations  … This is from the State of Nebraska, but it still repeats the NFPA Code. 
     
    “ … Hoods, ducts and exhaust fans must maintain a clearance of 18 inches from combustible materials, 3 inches from limited combustible materials, and zero clearance from noncombustible materials.”        …. Next time look at the installation instructions for the required minimum ‘combustion’ clearance by the manufacture.       A truck/trailer doesn’t have 3 inches to spare (or 6 inches) when a little preplanning can reduce this requirement  (appliances or hood).
     
     
    DR BBQ   … I have never heard of a truck owner or trailer crew turning a hose on to wash interior walls. It's just not done. And if your hand washing walls you'll never get enough water into the joints between sections to cause a problem. You just don't run amok with soap and water to clean the interior of a truck or trailer. Sheet-rock sucks up water and feeds mold like Popeye eating spinach.LOL

     
    I’ve done it.  … ‘Run amok’ in your terms.  And the pressure washer took all the hard black grease off the SS, range and fryer.   Of course there were no food or paper goods inside.     … What’s the difference, if a restaurant hires someone to clean the greasy hood system, he will pressure wash the hood in place.   If the kitchen does not have floor drains, then the water will be sucked up with a wet vac or trapped with drape plastic and drained to a tub.
     
    I’ve also washed down ‘drywall’ in a house with sponge mop and 5 gal buckets of water, soap & bleach.   The drywall did not suck up the water.   And, was a lot less expensive than painting.
     
      … Before any fire, cooking heat, or temp near 1500 degrees the Ansul or other fire protection system will go off.  …
        … I know that, IF there is one.   But that was BackAlleyBurge’s example anyway.
     
     
    post edited by edwmax - 2011/08/22 06:40:22
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    Dr of BBQ
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/22 09:22:59 (permalink)
    1st and foremost National Fire Protection Code dose not apply in many cities, states, and areas. In fact much like BOCA are suggestions that cities, states, and counties may or may not adopt.
     
    And please note many areas of the country realize that if and when BOCA codes are adopted building cost skyrocket because of the expenses involved in the building process required by BOCA codes. They are not law and some inspectors try and pass them off as local code knowing full well they are not. I have been through this on a local level and went to court to stop the practice. They called my attorney and agreed to stop the practice 3 days before the court date. LOL
     
    Here is a local company that makes interior wall coverings
    http://www.nudo.com/
    and they are what I used in my trailer. www.DrofBBQ.com
     
    Jack
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    edwmax
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/22 16:20:53 (permalink)
    Dr of BBQ

    1st and foremost National Fire Protection Code dose not apply in many cities, states, and areas. In fact much like BOCA are suggestions that cities, states, and counties may or may not adopt.

    And please note many areas of the country realize that if and when BOCA codes are adopted building cost skyrocket because of the expenses involved in the building process required by BOCA codes. They are not law and some inspectors try and pass them off as local code knowing full well they are not. I have been through this on a local level and went to court to stop the practice. They called my attorney and agreed to stop the practice 3 days before the court date. LOL

    Here is a local company that makes interior wall coverings
    http://www.nudo.com/
    and they are what I used in my trailer. www.DrofBBQ.com

    Jack

     
    These Associations Codes can be adopted entirely without change; adopted with changes and reissued by the adopting Agency or City; or applicable sections modified & wrote into the Agancy/City/State Code.  As I always stated check your own applicable Codes.
     
      … The City of Springfield uses the International Building Code (IBC).   By reference of IBC sect. 2801.1 “ Scope. Mechanical appliances, equipment and systems shall be constructed, installed and maintained in accordance with the International Mechanical Code and the International Fuel Gas Code. Masonry chimneys, fireplaces and barbecues shall comply with the international Mechanical Code and Chapter 21 of this code.
     
    The International Mechanical Code is incorporated by direct reference and the following sections apply to Kitchen equipment & hoods.
    Sec 303: Equipment and Appliance Location
    Sect. 304: Installation
    Sect. 308: Clearance Reduction
    Sect. 506: Commercial Kitchen Hood Ventilation
    Sect 507; Commercial Kitchen Hood
    Sect 510;  Hazardous Exhaust Systems
     
    From section 510 & Table 510.8.2 the required clearance to combustible material construction is 1-inch if exhaust temp is less than 100 deg F; or 12-inches when exhaust air temp is 100-600 deg F. ; above 600 Deg F requires a chimney.   Therefore. From Table 398.6 (sect 308) this may be reduced to 3-inches to 6-inches horizontal clearance behind the cook stove; & 5-inches to 9-inches above the hood.; All depending on the construction of the wall or ceiling.
     
    Dr BBQ, you originally stated “…and all that I have read call for a 2 inch dead air space, and that's it. …”    I used the NFPA code as an example to show the 2-inches is not always applicable or correct.   … If a particular Hood Manufacture indicates their hood only needs 2-inch clearance, then that Manufacture must have constructed the top of the hood with special details to allow this and meet Codes; or they specify specific ceiling construction to be installed by the owner. Otherwise the Hood Manufacture has opened themselves up to a huge liability issue if anyone is injured due to a fire starting because combustible clearances were not maintained.
     
    All I tried to indicate above before this discussion (argument?) developed is that SS over plywood behind a Commercial Range & cooking equipment is not safe.  A Commercial Range vents heated air from the oven at 500 deg or more to the rear or up the riser at the rear. This air at some point will contact the SS & the heated riser will radiate the heat to the SS (required clearance).    The difference between Commercial Range & Residential Range is the amount of insulation used in the range walls & heat output of the unit.  Most residential ranges can be installed with 0 clearance; the Commercial range normally cannot.
    post edited by edwmax - 2011/08/22 16:30:23
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    Lee Weenies
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/22 23:06:38 (permalink)
    So EDWMAX what is it you do for a living?
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    Monkeytrot
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/24 13:25:05 (permalink)
    Trying to find FRP down here in Panama is proving to be very difficult.... In fact I am met with blank expressions every time. All I can find so far in galvanised steel... So let me ask you - would this be a good substitution? Im worried about the weight but may not have a choice
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    BackAlleyBurger
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/24 14:07:39 (permalink)
    you said your trailer was coming from miami ? has it been shipped yet ? pay the shipper a little bit to stop by a home depot and pick up say, 10  sheets and just put it in the trailer for the trip......
     
    galvanized is kind of funny..... the least little scratch on the cheaper stuff and you have rust issues.....
    also galvanized cant come into direct contact with food(not that you would have food on your walls, lol)
     
    also, once it starts to patina, it looks dirty and brown if you keep it treated, and can get chalky if you leave it alone.... i wouldnt mess with it, you would be better off with aluminum walls if nothing else
    post edited by BackAlleyBurger - 2011/08/24 14:11:38
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    Dr of BBQ
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/24 19:50:18 (permalink)
    BAB is right on target galvanized steel..is a no no. It could be clean enough to use in a hospital but will look like hell. Where are you? Start calling the next nearest big town and drive for a couple of hours or how ever long it takes to get the right product. If you don't you'll at some point down the road be re-doing your walls. Or wishing you could.
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    Monkeytrot
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/24 21:02:11 (permalink)
    I live in Panama city, Panama not Florida so I am in the nearest big city. The trailer has been shipped so putting some panels in the trailer is not an option either. Thanks for the heads up guys and Im gonna keep looking around cause I fail to believe that we dont have anything like that down here. The steel they have down here has some kind of laminate over the top of it but Im still not sure. Anyway I will let you know.....Thanks again
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    edwmax
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/24 23:10:48 (permalink)
    BAB & Dr BBQ are right.       It doesn't look dirty, but will turn a darker dull grayish color.  It just is not bright & shiny as SS.  Galvanized steel is used in many kitchens as the heat shield behind cooking equipment and for the exhaust hood.   ... Galvanized steel cannot be used as a food contact surface.
     
    If you can't get SS, then Galvanize will do the job for you.    And, Galvanized on the wall can be painted except the heat shield at the cooking equipment.    Oh, check with a metal building (supply ?) company, you might be able to buy painted 26ga/ 24 ga flat sheets for the walls.  these are usually a painted galvalume type steel sheets.
    post edited by edwmax - 2011/08/24 23:27:26
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    Dr of BBQ
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/25 00:11:22 (permalink)
    Monkeytrot

    I live in Panama city, Panama not Florida so I am in the nearest big city. The trailer has been shipped so putting some panels in the trailer is not an option either. Thanks for the heads up guys and Im gonna keep looking around cause I fail to believe that we don't have anything like that down here. The steel they have down here has some kind of laminate over the top of it but I'm still not sure. Anyway I will let you know.....Thanks again

     
    Go to your local newest hospital and find out what they are using in operating rooms, and contact the supplier. But keep in mind a hospital has deep pockets and they are paying far more than you can afford. So once you find the supplier you'll need to make a new friend and help him understand your just a small fish and can not afford the big $$$$'s like the hospital. But you would be glad to throw a big party for his clients once your rig is done.
     
    Jack
    PS depending on the size of the party you may get it installed and your just out the cost of your product and your labor.
    #22
    Monkeytrot
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/25 15:28:42 (permalink)
    Hey guys
     
    Been asking all over the place for the panels with no joy so far. I have been talking to industrial office block building companies but still nothing. The only suggestion people keep coming up with is plycem......... What do you think?.... or would it be better to stick with the painted galvanized steel?
    #23
    Dr of BBQ
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/25 16:37:35 (permalink)
    Fiber cement board no way, that's to heavy.  Did you read my post? Go to a local NICE restaurant, hospital or office kitchen and ask them WHAT THEY ARE USING AND WHERE THEY GOT IT? It's that simple. You can't make me think that restaurants are using fiber cement board on the walls in their kitchens and restrooms. LOL And I promise a hospital is not using what we call blue board in operating rooms. Heck do you guys have American fast food restaurants? Go to them and find out who built the building and track down the builder and ask where they got their wall coverings. Someone has to supply it. I think because your asking about it in combination with a food trailer is throwing them off.
     
     
    #24
    Monkeytrot
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/25 16:55:15 (permalink)
    Trust me Dr of BBQ applying logic in this country is like hitting your head against the wall. Im from the UK so I am just getting used to it only now after 6 years. I have asked around about companies doing these kind of work but I can imagine that places like Mc donalds will have contractors from the US doing the work or just shipping in the materials.... which is something I will look into.
    I have found(this afternoon) something called "alumbond" which looks promising to me but I cant find much on the internet about it. Have you heard of it? 
    #25
    Monkeytrot
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/25 16:55:58 (permalink)

     
    check it out
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    Monkeytrot
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/25 16:56:23 (permalink)
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    Monkeytrot
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    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/25 16:57:09 (permalink)
    ok the link doesn't want to post 
    #28
    Dr of BBQ
    Filet Mignon
    • Total Posts : 3716
    • Joined: 2004/10/11 20:16:00
    • Location: Springfield, IL
    • Status: offline
    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/25 17:31:32 (permalink)
    Now your cooking with gas. The company that invented that process is here in town. I posted a link earlier. Yes that will work do they have a supplier in your area? How expensive is it? With the price of metals sky high right now it may be pricey but it'll do the job you need done.
    Heres a link http://www.ase-europe.com/p_b_alucompanels.html
     
    If that's not the correct link send me the link you tried to post and I'll post it for you. You can't post it because your two new to the forum. My email address is Jack@DrofBBQ.com     put Roadfood in the subject line so I don't miss it.
     
    Jack
    #29
    Schmelly
    Cheeseburger
    • Total Posts : 185
    • Joined: 2011/02/17 20:03:00
    • Location: Troy, NH
    • Status: offline
    Re:Interior walls 2011/08/25 17:52:07 (permalink)
    Dr of BBQ

    1st and foremost National Fire Protection Code dose not apply in many cities, states, and areas. In fact much like BOCA are suggestions that cities, states, and counties may or may not adopt.

    And please note many areas of the country realize that if and when BOCA codes are adopted building cost skyrocket because of the expenses involved in the building process required by BOCA codes. They are not law and some inspectors try and pass them off as local code knowing full well they are not. I have been through this on a local level and went to court to stop the practice. They called my attorney and agreed to stop the practice 3 days before the court date. LOL

    Here is a local company that makes interior wall coverings
    http://www.nudo.com/
    and they are what I used in my trailer. www.DrofBBQ.com

    Jack

    Hey Doc, I checked out that website but they don't list prices, grr....
     
    What did it cost you for supplies to do your interior....
     
       thanks,
                     Schmelly
    #30
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