Introduction and Stupid Newbie Questions

Good luck Zombuswoof.

No offense, but if you wanted to save the world why didn't you go into a public interest group that actually has a chance to do that. What world were you going to change with collections law? If food service was always your calling, go for it. If you are giving up law because you didn't like the cases you were handling...well, who would? Not to be too harsh, but it's bottom of the barrel stuff. Might as well say you were trying to save the world through writing wills. It's not going to happen. Fine job if you like it, but keep the world changing goals realistic. Put yourself in the job where it's likely. Sign up for pro bono on projects that need lawyers with such goals. Guantanamo detainees were not answering a yellow pages ad and paying an hourly fee. You need to seek these things out.

That said, sounds like you know you will be happy with stands because of your past experiences.

Not to be too harsh? Why on earth would you attack a forum member for what he does for a living. It's legal, it's needed, it's honest work.

What gall!

Who of us is going to change the world? I've never even been to Europe, so I doubt I'll ever change it. None of us can change anything except our little corner. I think that's what our new member was trying, and I applaud him (her?) for it.

I have the same dream, but it's not food related, so I'll ask on another board.

Life is what you make it...what you want it to be...follow your heart...and go for it. Enjoy!!!!!

I think there is a need for a good Lawyer who specializes in representing Hot Dog Cart owners.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

Not to be too harsh? Why on earth would you attack a forum member for what he does for a living. It's legal, it's needed, it's honest work.

What gall!

Back off, Hoffman. I did not attack. Mine was a question and the poster was the one to say..."I got into law believing that I would be able to change the world." Poster is also a litigator and more than able to take an honest but tough question. He's not off crying because I questioned his choice in practice as having a high probablility of never being able to meet his original goal. I did not condemn the field, but noted it was the least likely to provide the type of "I've really done something" feeling that Zombus seemed to desire. I know this from experience.

Here's another question: Do you no longer want to change the world? What if you could get involved with a form of law that gave you the warm fuzzies (and be honest - there is still struggle to get to the payoff) would you want to stay in law? Why did you choose law? And I don't think you are crazy for wanting to go from attorney to food service. I know as many current lawyers as lawyer to plumbers, lawyer to priest, lawyer to stay at home parent, lawyer to builder, etc. I just wanted to know if you would have been happy in another area of law or if it's deeper than that. Now, I will get all sorts of responses demanding how I have the right to ask personal questions while doing the same on another thread. I could care less. I'm curious and no one has to answer me. The man made it through the socratic method, I'm sure he's not phased by my posts.

quote:

Originally posted by divefl
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Back off, Hoffman. I did not attack.

I never back off when I'm right, and I'm right. You did attack him for his choices.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman


I never back off when I'm right, and I'm right. You did attack him for his choices.

Well, since you think you are always right, you must never back down. And, that has been what I have observed in you. Glad you think you are right. I'm sure you'll reassert the belief. If Zom thinks it is an attack then I will apologize for phrasing things to make him feel attacked. If it's you then you will have to deal with your feelings because you weren't the audience I was addressing and hardly the pot who should accuse the kettle of unkind posting.

As Joseph Campbell always said, " follow your bliss". I tend to concur with his sage advice.

quote:

Originally posted by divefl

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman


I never back off when I'm right, and I'm right. You did attack him for his choices.

Well, since you think you are always right, you must never back down. And, that has been what I have observed in you. Glad you think you are right. I'm sure you'll reassert the belief. If Zom thinks it is an attack then I will apologize for phrasing things to make him feel attacked. If it's you then you will have to deal with your feelings because you weren't the audience I was addressing and hardly the pot who should accuse the kettle of unkind posting.

You think as you wish, although I'd hardly call what you do thinking.

Maybe there should be an Off Topic Personal Feud category. I bet it would be popular.

Well, we both tend to think what we like. Let's continue to do that. No reason to waste time or bother the mods with disagreements that aren't going end in agreement.

quote:

Originally posted by divefl

No offense, but if you wanted to save the world why didn't you go into a public interest group that actually has a chance to do that. What world were you going to change with collections law? If food service was always your calling, go for it. If you are giving up law because you didn't like the cases you were handling...well, who would? Not to be too harsh, but it's bottom of the barrel stuff. Might as well say you were trying to save the world through writing wills. It's not going to happen. Fine job if you like it, but keep the world changing goals realistic. Put yourself in the job where it's likely. Sign up for pro bono on projects that need lawyers with such goals. Guantanamo detainees were not answering a yellow pages ad and paying an hourly fee. You need to seek these things out.

That said, sounds like you know you will be happy with stands because of your past experiences.

Good point. I am not at all offended by your post and don't believe it was at all harsh. Truth is, I do a ton of public interest work - at last count somewhere around 55% of my work was done pro bono. In my consumer law practice, representing consumers in collection disputes is a minute portion of my total caseload. The vast majority of it involves foreclosure defense and mortgage fraud (fraud perpetrated by the lenders or brokers) including truth-in-lending act rescission cases. I'm a member of the National Association of Consumer Advocates, the National Consumer Law Center, and do a lot of work with Ralph Nader's various consumer organizations. We lobby hard for legislative changes. I actually spent a lot of (uncomfortable) time this past November with Barney Frank concerning legislation to do away with mandatory consumer arbitration. In this area of the law, it is possible to make a difference on a micro-level - the homeowners I have been able to help will always be in a better position for it, but on a macro level my work doesn't really matter. All of the mortgage fraud cases that go up on appeal on the state level(including my own) are decided in a way that is clearly inconsistent with established law within my state's federal district.

I went into law school to strengthen my concert promotion company. While I was in school, SFX (and later Clear Channel) gobbled up all of the regional promoters and effectively shut my company out of doing business. I could no longer buy any major acts because I could only guarantee 3 or 4 dates instead of the hundred or so that SFX could offer. So I adapted and went into practice. I'm not saying I'm better than attorneys who are happy with what they do, I'm just wired differently. I believe there is more to life than sitting at my desk and arguing to a judge. I think I can use what I learned in law school (and as a psychology major in undergrad) and apply it to the real world. I was a successful businessperson prior to going to college and the concepts behind success haven't changed recently. I just think it's time to get out while I still have a little humanity left.

I have no desire to be Trump wealthy, but I want to be comfortable. I can work in my law firm for the next 35 years and make a decent living and be able to afford lots of toys, but I would just be going through the motions. I quite enjoy being able to build my own business "empire," however, I think it must come from playing too much Monopoly when I was a kid. Seriously, I just want to sell quality weiners to the public. It's a much simpler transaction than retaining a client and babying them for the next 2.5 years while their case winds through a very inefficient system. Nobody's ever going to call me at 8:00 a.m. every morning and ask me how their hot dog is coming along.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombuswoof

quote:

Originally posted by divefl

No offense, but if you wanted to save the world why didn't you go into a public interest group that actually has a chance to do that. What world were you going to change with collections law? If food service was always your calling, go for it. If you are giving up law because you didn't like the cases you were handling...well, who would? Not to be too harsh, but it's bottom of the barrel stuff. Might as well say you were trying to save the world through writing wills. It's not going to happen. Fine job if you like it, but keep the world changing goals realistic. Put yourself in the job where it's likely. Sign up for pro bono on projects that need lawyers with such goals. Guantanamo detainees were not answering a yellow pages ad and paying an hourly fee. You need to seek these things out.

That said, sounds like you know you will be happy with stands because of your past experiences.

Good point. I am not at all offended by your post and don't believe it was at all harsh. Truth is, I do a ton of public interest work - at last count somewhere around 55% of my work was done pro bono. In my consumer law practice, representing consumers in collection disputes is a minute portion of my total caseload. The vast majority of it involves foreclosure defense and mortgage fraud (fraud perpetrated by the lenders or brokers) including truth-in-lending act rescission cases. I'm a member of the National Association of Consumer Advocates, the National Consumer Law Center, and do a lot of work with Ralph Nader's various consumer organizations. We lobby hard for legislative changes. I actually spent a lot of (uncomfortable) time this past November with Barney Frank concerning legislation to do away with mandatory consumer arbitration. In this area of the law, it is possible to make a difference on a micro-level - the homeowners I have been able to help will always be in a better position for it, but on a macro level my work doesn't really matter. All of the mortgage fraud cases that go up on appeal on the state level(including my own) are decided in a way that is clearly inconsistent with established law within my state's federal district.

I went into law school to strengthen my concert promotion company. While I was in school, SFX (and later Clear Channel) gobbled up all of the regional promoters and effectively shut my company out of doing business. I could no longer buy any major acts because I could only guarantee 3 or 4 dates instead of the hundred or so that SFX could offer. So I adapted and went into practice. I'm not saying I'm better than attorneys who are happy with what they do, I'm just wired differently. I believe there is more to life than sitting at my desk and arguing to a judge. I think I can use what I learned in law school (and as a psychology major in undergrad) and apply it to the real world. I was a successful businessperson prior to going to college and the concepts behind success haven't changed recently. I just think it's time to get out while I still have a little humanity left.

I have no desire to be Trump wealthy, but I want to be comfortable. I can work in my law firm for the next 35 years and make a decent living and be able to afford lots of toys, but I would just be going through the motions. I quite enjoy being able to build my own business "empire," however, I think it must come from playing too much Monopoly when I was a kid. Seriously, I just want to sell quality weiners to the public. It's a much simpler transaction than retaining a client and babying them for the next 2.5 years while their case winds through a very inefficient system. Nobody's ever going to call me at 8:00 a.m. every morning and ask me how their hot dog is coming along.

What a GREAT RESPONSE!! You are one fantastic comunicator! You are one of those rare individuals who knows who they are and what they want out of life. You will be a great Entrepreneur! Just Do It--You'll figure it out. If you haven't done so already, get the book, audiobook or movie,"The Secret" and you will understand what I'm talking about.

If you had a really good chili dog, I would call at 8 am to see how it's coming along. Thanks for indulging my curiosity. When you set up a place make sure to report back on the location.

Being a "passionate" person when it comes to food, Greyghost has the best point I have seen in awhile.I am certain i would be on that forum alot!!!

Zombuswoolf
Saw this and thought about you!
"Dave continued his schooling and in 1968 began a successful 30 year career as a trial attorney. As much as Dave enjoyed the practice of law he always dreamed that one day he would open his own hot dog business and share the taste of those special East Coast hot dogs with others.

As a result of a back injury requiring numerous surgeries and prolonged recovery, Dave was forced to retire in 1998. Disabled, Dave spent years pondering his dream of opening his own hot dog stand.

AT AGE 64 Dave founded The Dog House intending to serve college students and others the best hot dogs available at reasonable prices. Dave actually brings in those same delicious hot dogs from Boston that he enjoyed as a kid along with a unique blend of chili made especially for The Dog House for those who crave Chili Dogs! Dave has never forgotten his love for that special hot dog.

Customers suggested some variety and Dave's response was to initiate a delicious mini-burger which we call a "slider" prepared on our special bun, grilled and seasoned to perfection.

You can find this food cheaper but you won't find it better. We use the best ingredients available. Remember, we make America's favorite food better!'

Source: http://davesdoghouse.com/locations_frame.htm

Kudos on finding the courage to follow your bliss. I feel some kinship with you. I was a controller for a small manufacturing outfit. I have a degree in Accounting and am just shy of being a CPA, but last year, I quit my salaried position and opened Zoomdweebie's Tea Bar. Much to my wife's dismay, I have yet to get an actual paycheck out of it, but the business is growing, and I am having a fantastic time. Money isn't everything.

quote:

Originally posted by Zoomdweebie

Kudos on finding the courage to follow your bliss. I feel some kinship with you. I was a controller for a small manufacturing outfit. I have a degree in Accounting and am just shy of being a CPA, but last year, I quit my salaried position and opened Zoomdweebie's Tea Bar. Much to my wife's dismay, I have yet to get an actual paycheck out of it, but the business is growing, and I am having a fantastic time. Money isn't everything.

Today was an exciting day in the progression towards full-time hot dog guru. We went to meet with Robert from Vendog/Precision Carts, toured his shop, and ordered our first two carts. We went with two of his Metropolitan models and are having him add a gas grill to each. Ken, you were absolutely correct about Robert - small shop and well-organized. We checked over one that he had just finished and the build quality was superior to any of the other ones we had checked out. Anyway, they should be ready in "about" two weeks.

My next question - where, besides BJ's, Costco, and Sam's do you guys get your dogs from? I have looked at the Restaurant Depot flyer, and there is one in Atlanta (around 150 miles away). They sell Sabrett's for roughly $.21 per dog in the 10/1 pack. What are the cheapest routes to go here to get the best quality product? Also, I am curious about sources for buns. All the ones at the big box discount stores work out to around $.30 each if you buy off the shelf. There has to be a way to get bread cheaper. Do you use local bakeries? What is considered a "right" price for a decent quality bun?

Thanks guys. I truly believe I could not do this without this forum, unless, of course, I wanted to make every rookie mistake imaginable.

I believe Restaurant Depot handles Vienna products. We're waiting for one to open here in Charlotte. It's in the planning stages. They already have their location. You can't beat the Vienna supplied buns. They're par-baked and practically bullet-proof.

If R.D. has them, I don't know what they charge. Mine are shipped from Chicago to Columbia, SC and then delivered by my distributor to Charlotte. Wind up costing about 20 cents per bun, so that's 1/3 less than your off-the-shelfs. Some will say that's still too much, but the locally-baked ones cost the same and they just don't hold up in the steamer.

If you aren't going to steam your buns, I'd just be sure they are extra fresh when I serve them. Nothing worse than a stale bun.

quote:

Originally posted by kensandyeggo

I believe Restaurant Depot handles Vienna products. We're waiting for one to open here in Charlotte. It's in the planning stages. They already have their location. You can't beat the Vienna supplied buns. They're par-baked and practically bullet-proof.

If R.D. has them, I don't know what they charge. Mine are shipped from Chicago to Columbia, SC and then delivered by my distributor to Charlotte. Wind up costing about 20 cents per bun, so that's 1/3 less than your off-the-shelfs. Some will say that's still too much, but the locally-baked ones cost the same and they just don't hold up in the steamer.

If you aren't going to steam your buns, I'd just be sure they are extra fresh when I serve them. Nothing worse than a stale bun.

Do you use S. Rosen's from Alpha Bakery? If so, I'd be very appreciative if you could hook me up with your supplier. I've never actually had one of these (or a Chicago style dog, for that matter), but have heard great things. I was trying to make it up to your place last Saturday, but I had a car full of women and children who made travel a little slow. When we come to pick up our carts in (hopefully) two weeks, it'll just be my partner and me. We are planning on coming to see you first to take the grand tour and sample some tasty fare.

BTW, I'm considering selling a certain premium frozen desert bar (definitely NOT at first, but after I get into the swing of running the cart). Are you aware of any mobile, non-electric freezing options, i.e., a small freezer with a cold plate that I could plug in overnight and keep things cold for the day? I've googled until my fingers are numb and can't find anything.

Thanks!
Dave

Zombuswoof
"BTW, I'm considering selling a certain premium frozen desert bar". Have you checked with the Dessert Bar Company/ Many times food companies supply equipment to retailers. I've seen them in grocery stores. Also, I looked for a web site of your cart manufacturer but unable to locate it. Could you post it if one exists? THANX!

quote:

Originally posted by Foodbme

Zombuswoof
"BTW, I'm considering selling a certain premium frozen desert bar". Have you checked with the Dessert Bar Company/ Many times food companies supply equipment to retailers. I've seen them in grocery stores. Also, I looked for a web site of your cart manufacturer but unable to locate it. Could you post it if one exists? THANX!

Good idea, I'll definitely look into it.

The website for Vendog is: http://www.vendog.com

Just some thoughts regarding promotion. A snappy name for your cart business certainly can't hurt. One idea is Street Legal Dogs, somewhat snappy and it incorporates your history, which in itself is a valuable selling point.

Print up a folksy menu, Perhaps, Street Legal Dogs ...anything better would be against the law! Incorporate cute names for the dogs along with descriptions. Examples could be a dog with very hot pepper relish: Capital Punishment; a mild plain dog geared to children could be Minor Misdemeanor and so on.

Above all on the folksy menu reserve a lot of space for the Street Legal story. People love stories and you have a good and true one. I think people would flock to such a place and as the take away menus got around, free media coverage would be abundant.

Well, if you use my idea I expect at least one free dog if I ever can get to your neck of the woods.

quote:

Originally posted by Zombuswoof
I went into law school to strengthen my concert promotion company. While I was in school, SFX (and later Clear Channel) gobbled up all of the regional promoters and effectively shut my company out of doing business. I could no longer buy any major acts because I could only guarantee 3 or 4 dates instead of the hundred or so that SFX could offer.

What you might do is open a venue for regional up-and-comers and sell your wares there. I went to Hooters because they sponsored a stock car driver I admired (I know everyone here is questioning the level of my refinement as you read this story) named Alan Kulwicki. They raked like a bandit as he got successful, to the point of winning the Winston Cup in 1992 before he died in a helicopter crash in 1993. Since they didn't have any T-Shirts or other memorabilia, I never went back. Once, I actually paid more to take my wife and myself out than a paid to eat alone at Hooters, if you can believe that, so I don't recommend it to anyone, but my point is that you don't need to book big acts to make it as a promoter.

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost

Just some thoughts regarding promotion. A snappy name for your cart business certainly can't hurt. One idea is Street Legal Dogs, somewhat snappy and it incorporates your history, which in itself is a valuable selling point.

Print up a folksy menu, Perhaps, Street Legal Dogs ...anything better would be against the law! Incorporate cute names for the dogs along with descriptions. Examples could be a dog with very hot pepper relish: Capital Punishment; a mild plain dog geared to children could be Minor Misdemeanor and so on.

Above all on the folksy menu reserve a lot of space for the Street Legal story. People love stories and you have a good and true one. I think people would flock to such a place and as the take away menus got around, free media coverage would be abundant.

Well, if you use my idea I expect at least one free dog if I ever can get to your neck of the woods.

Great Stuff Grey Ghost!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Big Ugly Mich

quote:

Originally posted by Zombuswoof
I went into law school to strengthen my concert promotion company. While I was in school, SFX (and later Clear Channel) gobbled up all of the regional promoters and effectively shut my company out of doing business. I could no longer buy any major acts because I could only guarantee 3 or 4 dates instead of the hundred or so that SFX could offer.

What you might do is open a venue for regional up-and-comers and sell your wares there. I went to Hooters because they sponsored a stock car driver I admired (I know everyone here is questioning the level of my refinement as you read this story) named Alan Kulwicki. They raked like a bandit as he got successful, to the point of winning the Winston Cup in 1992 before he died in a helicopter crash in 1993. Since they didn't have any T-Shirts or other memorabilia, I never went back. Once, I actually paid more to take my wife and myself out than a paid to eat alone at Hooters, if you can believe that, so I don't recommend it to anyone, but my point is that you don't need to book big acts to make it as a promoter.

BUM,
You must not have read this whole thread. Z is no longer an attorney or a promoter. He's soon to become a World-Class Hot Dog Peddler!

We picked up our carts today from Vendog in Rock Hill, SC. They are high quality units. Now all I need is to get the Health Department to inspect and approve and I will be off and running. Insurance is taken care of as well. Company is incorporated, tax id numbers procured, etc. I'll put the carts through a dry run tomorrow for friends and family. The plan is to start hitting weekend events starting 3 weeks from this weekend. By mid-August I'll be starting the lunch shift during the week while continuing my practice part time.

I've chosen to brand with Vienna Beef. So far, so good.

Awesome progress. Good luck man!

BTW - I hit RD today. What a fantastic place.