Introduction and Stupid Newbie Questions

Hi all,

I am pondering a career switch from law to food service. To get my feet wet, my partner and I are going to buy two hot dog carts and run them part time until we get into the swing of things. By part time I mean special events on the weekends and lunch during the week.

Presently, I am an attorney and have been practicing for almost five years. I am in the process of limiting the number of clients I have in order to be able to work at this from 9 to 3 everyday. Prior to law school I was a concert promoter and I also supervised my company's concessions at our shows. I have worked in food service at other times and I gotta say those times were the most enjoyable in my life.

You will probably think I'm crazy to want to go from being an attorney to selling hot dogs. Right now I am all about simplification. My law practice is solely focused on consumer clients, i.e., mortgage fraud, debt collection harassment, automobile dealer sales fraud, etc. I got into law believing that I would be able to change the world but what I have experienced thus far is a system that is rigged to provide "justice" for large banks and big business interests and leave individuals out in the cold. I have to deal with corrupt judges who rule against my clients despite clear law to the contrary. On the flip side, I have to deal with clients who are often petty and unappreciative of the time and effort I put into their cases. I spend most mornings speaking to the same clients each day and telling them that nothing is different than the day before. I like to tell them that litigation is a marathon and not a sprint. Every case doesn't have a new development every day.

For a little over a year I have been contemplating opening a full-service restaurant, but the risk is a little intimidating. I have a chili recipe that my aunt came up with for a local drug store/diner where she worked for over 50 years that received positive write-ups in Southern Living and other magazines. When that establishment sold, the new owners did not purchase the recipe or the rights to it and later stated that they had 'reversed engineered' the recipe. Simply put, they were wrong. It's nothing fancy, just a couple of small things that one would ordinarily not put in hot dog chili and it makes all the difference. I have done informal blind taste tests with chili from other restaurants, my chili without the "secret" ingredients, and my chili with the goods. Over 90 percent of the time, folks have picked mine as their favorite. She gave me the recipe and all the rights to it (trade secrets, etc.) as a gift 1.5 years ago.

Around six months ago I performed a real estate closing for a guy who sells hot dogs for a living - from a cart at lunch during the week and at fairs and festivals around 20 weekends a year. I was shocked when I saw his financial information and discovered that he was making three times what I was making practicing law and was one of the happiest people I had ever met. He was a former CPA who figured there just had to be a better way. Here I am working 15 hours a day as stressed out as a person can be and this guy is going out on his boat every afternoon. It occured to me that I was likely overthinking the restaurant idea and should start small. 5k in starup/overhead costs sounds better than 80k anyday.

I have been lurking on these boards for the last few weeks reading anything and everything about this business. I have more or less settled on a cart - The Metropolitan with a steam table and a stainless grill made by Vendog (Precision Carts) in Rock Hill, SC. They are close to my location and I won't have to pay shipping. I am going to meet with them tomorrow evening to look over their carts and make sure it is right for me. This model also fits with the size requirements of the city and the freshwater and wastewater tanks are right for South Carolina. I have read one positive comment about them on these boards but am curious if anybody has more recent experience with them and their build quality.

I have spoken with my insurance agent about the necessary liability insurance. True to form with the insurance industry a million in liability isn't but a few dollars more than 300k in liability insurance (which is what my city requires) per year.

I have contacted the local health department and spoken with an inspector at length about the cart plans, base of operation requirements, etc. I have a friend who owns a bar with a licensed commercial kitchen less than a half mile from my home who is willing to sign on as my base of operations.

I have a couple of sideawalk spot picked out in my city which have an abundance of foot traffic. I have spied on the lone food vendor who is a couple of blocks down from my spots and see that he is killing at lunch. I bought one of his dogs and he is using a mushy, Armour-esque frank with canned chili that was barely edible. So I know that if there is a demand for bad street food that consistent quality food should do as well or better.

I think that I am getting close to making this a reality and opening up within the next two months. This is where I need you guys to help me. I want to use the best quality dogs I can. My personal favorite are Boar's Head natural casing, but that may not be feasible due to price. My understanding is that you have to purchase directly from Boar's Head Provisions, Inc. Anybody got experience with them? I also like Hebrew National and think they would sell well. I know that I prefer a natural casing for that "snap", but here in the South people are a lot different. What other alternatives would you recommend? I want to keep it simple and stick to hot dogs and pre-cooked sausages, chips, and drinks. I know from reading posts here that for soft drinks cans are much better than bottles for space and cost reasons. What brand of chips sell the best? I have always believed that when I go to a sub shop and they have "big grab" bags over the regular sized bags it is a better value. I have, on occasion, not gone back to restaurants that served small bags of chips unless everything else was stellar. My experience may not be typical, however.

I am certain that I am overlooking many things in making this happen. Any advice or guidance from those of you who are in the trenches making a living doing this would be greatly appreciated. I can honestly tell you that I have no plans to disappear once I get up and running. So far this forum has given me invaluable information that would have taken me weeks to find elsewhere online and prevented me from making some serious rookie errors.

Thanks,
Dave

Man I wish all newbie post were like yours. Welcome aboard and the best of luck in your new adventure.

I did contact Boars Head some time back and I though their
prices were outrageous. And they have a truck in town every
week. I think some dogs taste better than others depending
on how they are heated/cooked.Some are ok steamed or boiled
and others aren't, so test your choice at home fixed the way
you'll prepare them on your cart.

I'll bet your old clients will pester the heck out of you
looking for free legal advice while your trying to sell dogs.
LOL Again welcome and good
luck.

I agree with the doctor. This has got to be one of the very best newbie posts I've ever seen on this board.

Zombuswoof, if your execution is reflective of your presentation, I'd sure bet on you to succeed. Your post is so impressive, it almost makes me think differently of lawyers. ( I said, almost)

I agree with the Dr of BBQ. "Man I wish all newbie post were like yours. Welcome aboard and the best of luck in your new adventure." Where there's a Will, there's a way! (Pun intended) Rock on!
I see you're located in Greenville SC. I would roam the streets and look for other carts and try one of their dogs and ask them what kind they are. If you find one that tastes good, consider using it. Spend a little time at each vendors location and see how many customers they have in a lunch hour. Relate that info to the brand they sell. I'm an old retailer and I learned that it was important to know the competition, know the customer and the importance of LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!

Well Z-woof,
I am not one of the business operators on this site but I do see one thing you might have forgotten. Mother will have a kenipshon.

quote:

Originally posted by Frankman

Mother will have a kenipshon.

I have always wondered how that is spelled.

quote:

Originally posted by jman

quote:

Originally posted by Frankman

Mother will have a kenipshon.

I have always wondered how that is spelled.

I think it's spelled Kinipshin. A "kinipshin" is the same as: "getting one's panties in a bunch", and or a "hissy fit".

quote:

Originally posted by Foodbme

quote:

Originally posted by jman

quote:

Originally posted by Frankman

Mother will have a kenipshon.

I have always wondered how that is spelled.

I think it's spelled Kinipshin. A "kinipshin" is the same as: "getting one's panties in a bunch", and or a "hissy fit".

I just looked it up and it's spelled "conniption" and I've always heard and used it as the phrase[url='http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-conniption-fit.htm']conniption fit[/url].

A small bag of chips priced around 50 or 60 cents is a joke and a rip-off as it contains about a half ounce of product, maybe 4 or 5 chips. So go with the more expensive Big Grab type, it just has to be a better value.

Zombuswoof ,

I am not a restaurant pro, but I have seen cases like yours. One in particular comes to mind.
About twenty years ago there was a NYS Assemblyman that either got thrown out of office or quit...I forget which. Anyway, he stayed in Albany started a hot dog cart in front of the capitol building and made a lot more money than he did as a legislator for a few years. Of course, I think he was trying to make a political statement all along. They could not make him go away. Of course the media had a field day with this situation and this fueled his sales immensely.

I also have another story about an attorney that worked for the NYS Court of Claims. He was one of the happiest men I ever met. He liked hanging out in the offices where the hot babes worked, not that he was a wolf or aggressive in any way. He was a highly likable individual and I liked talking with him. He said he had the best job in the world...high salary, no stress, great pension and very little to do other than reviewing cases.

Personally, I consider the attorney who found his place in law practice the more fortunate and wiser of the two examples I have given. Just some food for thought. A law degree is a hell of a thing to waste.

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost

Zombuswoof ,Just some food for thought. A law degree is a hell of a thing to waste.

One of my favorite books by Hugh Prather: (Notes on Love and Courage)
Hugh wrote "Just because it's what you do best doesn't mean you have to do it."

Jack

PS If a career change makes you happy,or offers a new dream and new start, why not make that change?
You never waste anything you accomplish in your life, you'll always use that previous experience in some way,throughout the rest of your life.
Jack

I am encouraged,Zombuswoof,by your excitement with your new adventure.As a food person who always wished to be a lawyer,dont overthink your choices.Take the advice of those with sage knowledge, but be open to changing what you need to do at any given moment.Every market is different, and you shall learn that.Kind of like litigation in a law case, as it were.......

Great post, Z. Nothing wrong with drastic career changes. Whenever I got bored or burnt out, away I went. Probably why I never worked for anyone else for more than 5.5 years in my whole life (and it's been pretty long). I did own 2 businesses...one for 8+ years in Illinois and one for 12+ years in California. I just opened a Vienna shop in uptown Charlotte a little over a year ago. Oh, and I started nursing school when I was 60 and still take care of a 4 year old in his home on Saturdays, just to keep my hand in it and he's a great kid. Also spent 13 years as a cop/sheriff's deputy/marshall in the Chicago area and San Diego. Was going to do flight instruction in my rotorcraft here in NC, but had to sell her (sob) to get the hot dog joint up and running.

Even started law school and finished up a year when I was in my 50s. I depended on my business to pay the bills, and just couldn't find anyone reliable to run it. It was running downhill without my being there.

Give me a holler at kensandyeggo at msn dot com when you get a chance and I'll send you my phone number. I'd be happy to meet with you at my joint and show you around....won't take long as it's only 400 sq.ft. I also have a little cart that goes out during lunch (made by Robert at VenDog), so you could probably pick up a few tips there. There's another nearby vendor that uses a cart made by Robert and she loves it also. Welcome aboard.

Hmm, makes me want to quit my retail business. Which by the way, sucks big time in the current financial climate and start a hot dog cart.
Actually, It happens that I am seriously looking into opening an ice cream store. I'm just trying to decide whether to go independent or, franchise. There are pro's and cons for each.

Great post. I started my hot dog cart business in order to fund a bid to go to law school one day, only to find out that selling hot dogs is far too much fun to screw around with silly stuff like practicing law.

I wish you all the best.

All newbie posts aren't great because we are new! There is a lot to learn before jumping in and I am just looking for some intelligent answers. Sorry if my post wasn't worthy of an answer!

Where did you post it? I don't see it here.

quote:

Originally posted by kensandyeggo

Where did you post it? I don't see it here.

Ditto----We're not mind readers!

Check the nearby threads for the one he is griping about. There is a major difference in the approach made by these two folks when they requested information. read the two threads and you'll see that difference.

What is the major difference? I'm not a lawyer? All I did was ask a question that should be simple for someone doing business in my area, but instead, just got bashed by people not even in the area. Yes, I retaliated because of the careful consideration I used before posting my first question, but like other forums I just get bashed for not doing a search when I did do a search. How long am I supposed to keep searching before I just ask? Chances are good that other people would like the same answer also, but are afraid to ask. Don't worry, because I will never take these or other forums seriously again or ask another question. Yes, I understand the principle of trial and error, but again, why have the forums. I used to be in the DJ business and was more than happy to help a newcommer. It would be nice if more people would have that attitude, but we live in a society where most people are just rotten to the core. Democrats always trying to scew republicans and want to punish the rich. I was not always this bitter. I helped a lot of people in my lifetime just to keep getting screwed over and over again, mostly by my own brother. Sorry for asking a question on a forum.

Again, goodbye!!!

Hasta La Vista.

quote:

Originally posted by dirtface

What is the major difference? I'm not a lawyer? All I did was ask a question that should be simple for someone doing business in my area, but instead, just got bashed by people not even in the area. Yes, I retaliated because of the careful consideration I used before posting my first question, but like other forums I just get bashed for not doing a search when I did do a search. How long am I supposed to keep searching before I just ask? Chances are good that other people would like the same answer also, but are afraid to ask. Don't worry, because I will never take these or other forums seriously again or ask another question. Yes, I understand the principle of trial and error, but again, why have the forums. I used to be in the DJ business and was more than happy to help a newcommer. It would be nice if more people would have that attitude, but we live in a society where most people are just rotten to the core. I was not always this bitter. I helped a lot of people in my lifetime just to keep getting screwed over and over again, mostly by my own brother. Sorry for asking a question on a forum.

Again, goodbye!!!

quote:

Originally posted by dirtface

What is the major difference? I'm not a lawyer? All I did was ask a question that should be simple for someone doing business in my area, but instead, just got bashed by people not even in the area. Yes, I retaliated because of the careful consideration I used before posting my first question, but like other forums I just get bashed for not doing a search when I did do a search. How long am I supposed to keep searching before I just ask? Chances are good that other people would like the same answer also, but are afraid to ask. Don't worry, because I will never take these or other forums seriously again or ask another question. Yes, I understand the principle of trial and error, but again, why have the forums. I used to be in the DJ business and was more than happy to help a newcommer. It would be nice if more people would have that attitude, but we live in a society where most people are just rotten to the core. Democrats always trying to scew republicans and want to punish the rich. I was not always this bitter. I helped a lot of people in my lifetime just to keep getting screwed over and over again, mostly by my own brother. Sorry for asking a question on a forum.

Again, goodbye!!!

Dirtface, please reread this post. It speaks volumes. Boy, do you have issues.

Nice going dirtface, you've ruined everyone's Fathers Day...BTW how did you come you with the neat name?

Gawd,

I wish the ole' man would read your post. He has been a mechanic for 30 years and I have been in the IT field. For 2 years, we've been researching everything from hot dog carts to BBQ trailers and everything in between. We did a couple of events but HE HAD TO COOK CRAWFISH!!!! Too much work for both us and our customers in the Florida heat.

After a lot of stress, hard work and lack of profit, I believe he has conceeded to the hot dog cart idea as a starter. We can work our way from there. I have taken all the steps the attorney wrote so eloquently about and am going to look at a cart today.

The seller had a contract with a local Home Depot and is burnt out after 6 years. We should be able to pick his brain about the particulars for our area.

I appreciate everyone's feedback whether it be positive or negative....as I learn from both!

Happy Father's Day to all you DADS out there!

quote:

Originally posted by dirtface

What is the major difference? I'm not a lawyer? All I did was ask a question that should be simple for someone doing business in my area, but instead, just got bashed by people not even in the area. Yes, I retaliated because of the careful consideration I used before posting my first question, but like other forums I just get bashed for not doing a search when I did do a search. How long am I supposed to keep searching before I just ask? Chances are good that other people would like the same answer also, but are afraid to ask. Don't worry, because I will never take these or other forums seriously again or ask another question. Yes, I understand the principle of trial and error, but again, why have the forums. I used to be in the DJ business and was more than happy to help a newcommer. It would be nice if more people would have that attitude, but we live in a society where most people are just rotten to the core. Democrats always trying to scew republicans and want to punish the rich. I was not always this bitter. I helped a lot of people in my lifetime just to keep getting screwed over and over again, mostly by my own brother. Sorry for asking a question on a forum.

Again, goodbye!!!

Wow now that was a rant! lol What was your question? I would be glad to help you out to the best of my knowledge, and I don't care if your a Dr, lawyer, or a homeless guy. I am sure most people here are the same way.

Folks, Dirtface is no longer with us. Please limit your posts to the topic that was the OP's question. I am sure there are those who can assist him with some of the business decisions he has yet to make.
Thanks,
The Mayor

quote:

Originally posted by Al-The Mayor-Bowen


Folks, Dirtface is no longer with us. Please limit your posts to the topic that was the OP's question. I am sure there are those who can assist him with some of the business decisions he has yet to make.
Thanks,
The Mayor

Thank You Al for doing your job! That guy needs professional help

quote:

Originally posted by dirtface

Yes, I retaliated because of the careful consideration I used before posting my first question, BUT LIKE OTHER FORUMS I just get bashed for not doing a search when I did do a search.

I think the above explains everything.

(Emphasis Added by me)

quote:

Originally posted by Greyghost

Zombuswoof ,

I am not a restaurant pro, but I have seen cases like yours. One in particular comes to mind.
About twenty years ago there was a NYS Assemblyman that either got thrown out of office or quit...I forget which. Anyway, he stayed in Albany started a hot dog cart in front of the capitol building and made a lot more money than he did as a legislator for a few years. Of course, I think he was trying to make a political statement all along. They could not make him go away. Of course the media had a field day with this situation and this fueled his sales immensely.

I also have another story about an attorney that worked for the NYS Court of Claims. He was one of the happiest men I ever met. He liked hanging out in the offices where the hot babes worked, not that he was a wolf or aggressive in any way. He was a highly likable individual and I liked talking with him. He said he had the best job in the world...high salary, no stress, great pension and very little to do other than reviewing cases.

Personally, I consider the attorney who found his place in law practice the more fortunate and wiser of the two examples I have given. Just some food for thought. A law degree is a hell of a thing to waste.

Thank you to everybody who responded to this - even to the threadjacker with apparent anger issues. I am hoping to have my carts within a month. Next I have to go through inspection and have my insurance coverage bound. Once I have that then I can apply to the city for my particular spots. I have to be careful picking spots because the city actually issues a certificate of occupancy for that spot and you're not allowed to move around unless you go through the process again.

There are two licensed vendors in my city. I have found one (the one I spied on) but the other one never seems to be in his spot. I don't know if he has closed up shop or what, but it would be cool to track him down and pique his brain about all things hot dogs.

Yes, mama did almost have a kinipshin (or however you spell it) until she saw the potential financials. Now mama's happy. By mama, I mean my wife!

Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted as I get nearer to opening day.