Is BBQ related to Soul Food?

I'd love to sell some swampy land to anyone who thinks that slave-owning planters did any or all of the work at those early BBQ's.

Situations and circumstances vary from family to family. But , I know that at least on my father's side they would have worked every day side by side...

Just a thought but would you consider menudo Mexican soul food?

quote:

Originally posted by brisketboy

Just a thought but would you consider menudo Mexican soul food?

No, it is more comfort food like meatloaf or chicken and dumplings.

One more comment about BBQ cooked by African Americans makes it soul food, a burrito made by a French man does not make it a crepe.


joe

quote:

Originally posted by MilwFoodlovers

I'd love to sell some swampy land to anyone who thinks that slave-owning planters did any or all of the work at those early BBQ's.

I could have sworn that when Scarlett O'Hara declared her love to Ashley Wilkes at the Twelve Oaks barbecue Leslie Howard was wearing a "King Of The Grill" apron.

I bought a book some time ago titled Peace Love and Barbeque and there was a paragraph or so that read something like the slaves were given the worst parts of the animal and thus had to use methods that made these cuts palatable. And that this carried over to the post Civil War (Why do we call it Civil, there was nothing Civil about it?)when poor folk abounded on both sides ofthe color line. Therefore lending some credibility to the idea that BBQ is soul food related. And think of the accompaniments. They go as well with fried chicken as with a rack of ribs. I can eat okra and greens anytime.

Me too,brisketboy...I have all my life...And loved it !

quote:

Originally posted by brisketboy

I bought a book some time ago titled Peace Love and Barbeque and there was a paragraph or so that read something like the slaves were given the worst parts of the animal and thus had to use methods that made these cuts palatable. And that this carried over to the post Civil War (Why do we call it Civil, there was nothing Civil about it?)when poor folk abounded on both sides ofthe color line. Therefore lending some credibility to the idea that BBQ is soul food related. And think of the accompaniments. They go as well with fried chicken as with a rack of ribs. I can eat okra and greens anytime.

Po' folks, rich folks, and people of all colors, shades, tints, hues and tones had an influence on BBQ. The original question "Is BBQ related to soul food?" NO Is BBQ soulfood yes. It is also Asian food, African food, Mexican food etc.. Any cut of meat cooked over and open pit fire or variation there off is BBQ. But I think a Hawaiian cooking a whole pig in a pit full of coals for his luau would argue with you if you told him it was Carolina BBQ.

joe

quote:

Originally posted by brisketboy

Why do we call it Civil, there was nothing Civil about it

Some of us don't. Someof us call it the War of Northern Aggression.

Some of us don't know that it's over and Lee surrendered.

Soul food is any food that is "going to give you some strength," says Winnie Lofton, enjoying fried fish and grits for breakfast at Fannie's Cafe in West Tampa. Soul food is going to "make you go home, make love to your wife, do the yardwork, everything."

http://tinyurl.com/2ol99c

quote:

Originally posted by MilwFoodlovers

Some of us don't that it's over and Lee surrendered.

"... I would rather die a thousand deaths."

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by brisketboy

Why do we call it Civil, there was nothing Civil about it

Some of us don't. Someof us call it the War of Northern Aggression.

Granny Clampett said it was "When the North invaded America.".

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by MilwFoodlovers

Some of us don't that it's over and Lee surrendered.

"... I would rather die a thousand deaths."

Dressed in an immaculate uniform, Lee waited for Grant to arrive. Grant, whose headache had suddenly disappeared when he received Lee's note, arrived in a dirty private's uniform with only his shoulder straps showing his rank. Suddenly overcome with sadness, Grant found it hard to get to the point of the meeting and instead the two generals briefly discussed a previous encounter during the Mexican-American War. Lee brought the attention back to the issue at hand, and Grant offered the same generous terms he had before:

“ In accordance with the substance of my letter to you of the 8th inst., I propose to receive the surrender of the Army of N. Va. on the following terms, to wit: Rolls of all the officers and men to be made in duplicate. One copy to be given to an officer designated by me, the other to be retained by such officer or officers as you may designate. The officers to give their individual paroles not to take up arms against the Government of the United States until properly exchanged, and each company or regimental commander sign a like parole for the men of their commands. The arms, artillery and public property to be parked and stacked, and turned over to the officer appointed by me to receive them. This will not embrace the side-arms of the officers, nor their private horses or baggage. This done, each officer and man will be allowed to return to their homes, not to be disturbed by United States authority so long as they observe their paroles and the laws in force where they may reside. ”

In addition to his generous terms, Grant also allowed the defeated men to take home their horses and mules to carry out the spring planting; Lee said it would have a very happy effect among the men and do much toward reconciling the country. As Lee left the house and rode away, Grant's men began cheering in celebration, but Grant ordered an immediate stop. "I at once sent word, however, to have it stopped," he said. "The Confederates were now our prisoners, and we did not want to exult over their downfall."

quote:

Originally posted by Texianjoe

Po' folks, rich folks, and people of all colors, shades, tints, hues and tones had an influence on BBQ. The original question "Is BBQ related to soul food?" NO Is BBQ soulfood yes. It is also Asian food, African food, Mexican food etc.. Any cut of meat cooked over and open pit fire or variation there off is BBQ. But I think a Hawaiian cooking a whole pig in a pit full of coals for his luau would argue with you if you told him it was Carolina BBQ.

joe

T-joe, my point exactly from an earlier post in this thread. Many cultures have contributed to what we think of as "American" Barbecue. As such, Barbecue is the perfect reflection of what this country is all about. You bring with you your culture and customs from the old country. Some of it sticks and even spreads into the mainstream; adopted by others and eventually thought of, not as a foreign custom, but as "American". Some of it whithers and you, as the newcomer, take up existing customs that were brought by others before you, in its place.

As for your point about 'Que being Soul Food, I think a geometric principle clarifies it (or makes it muddier, we'll see): All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. Soul Food can include Barbecue, but not all Barbecue is Soul Food, nor is it its most integral component.

Buddy

P.S. This is a great discussion. If we can keep all the red state blue state crap out of it, we all might learn something.

B.

quote:

Originally posted by bill voss

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

quote:

Originally posted by bill voss
In KC growing up, BBQ was always classified as "White" or Black", because of taste, method, and Origin. Black was always spicier, smokier, White less so. Migration patterns meant 2 styles in one. This line is obscured now more than 40 years ago, I think. So if you think Soul Food is descended from Slave food, then that's why I say they can be related, but not necessarily.

hey bill,

As someone who has eaten in a wide range of KC's best Greashouses, and also as someone who will be back in town for Christmas, and who will be looking for some new places to tuck in, I would be interested in getting some specific examples of how the Black/White 'Que breaks down in your mind.

Arthur Bryant's, Gates, LC's are obvious representatives of the Black Barbecue experience. Any others? How about the other, "paler" side of the coin?

We're in town from the 20th through the 30th. We have our favorites that are "must" visits. But we'll also be looking for some new spots to explore.

So whaddaya think bill?

Buddy

P.S. Sorry to all for the temporary hijack of this thread. Thank you for your indulgence.

B.

Hey buddy, we actually discussed some of this here:
http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8881#137815
Since I'm an expat, this is where Z and Keith need to weigh in. Have you ever been to smokin' guns, ribdog's buddies?

Haven't been to Smokin' Guns yet, but based on numerous mentions here at Roadfood, it is now on the list. As for the Black/White Barbecue issue, the thread in this link is more an overall review of places visited by the original poster. Good reviews, but he doesn't really go in depth with the specific concept of the differences that might be spurred by cultural or racial backgrounds.

You mention noticing these differences "growing up" in KC. Are any of these places that you had in mind still in business? Do you have any specific recollections about which places served which styles. I'm not trying to put you on the spot here. I'm genuinely interested in learning more about those differences and, where possible, sampling same.

Buddy

MilwFoodlovers ... I can tell you that both sides of my family served in The Army Of Northern Virginia in the Alabama Divisions under General Lee...They walked home all the way from Virginia to Southeast Alabama... Some with tuberculosis...The were without horses because their horses ( and mules ) had been killed in great numbers...They came home to fight scallawags,carpetbaggers and the Reconstruction...But, my goodness , they were great cooks with practically nothing !

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

quote:

Originally posted by Texianjoe

Po' folks, rich folks, and people of all colors, shades, tints, hues and tones had an influence on BBQ. The original question "Is BBQ related to soul food?" NO Is BBQ soulfood yes. It is also Asian food, African food, Mexican food etc.. Any cut of meat cooked over and open pit fire or variation there off is BBQ. But I think a Hawaiian cooking a whole pig in a pit full of coals for his luau would argue with you if you told him it was Carolina BBQ.

joe

P.S. This is a great discussion. If we can keep all the red state blue state crap out of it, we all might learn something.

B.

And just exactly what red state blue state crap were you talking about?

Is BBQ related to Soul Food?

The answer is not black or white (I am not meaning race here either), it is an area of grey.

Soul food relates back to the days of the slave cooks, they were the ones doing all the work.

Did they have bbq back then, yes they had smoked meats, smoking was a way to preserve something.

So is BBQ soul food??

I liked the earlier mention of kissing cousins. They are related and they share some influences.


If you look at today's southern cooking there is NO WAY to seperate the slave influence in modern southern foods. I wouldn't want to sepearate them.

Soul Foods are hearty foods that nourish the soul & body

quote:

Originally posted by Michael HoffmanAnd just exactly what red state blue state crap were you talking about?

Not takin' the bait Mikey. Have a nice day and Happy Holidays.

Buddy

[As someone who has eaten in a wide range of KC's best Greashouses, and also as someone who will be back in town for Christmas, and who will be looking for some new places to tuck in, I would be interested in getting some specific examples of how the Black/White 'Que breaks down in your mind.

Arthur Bryant's, Gates, LC's are obvious representatives of the Black Barbecue experience. Any others? How about the other, 'paler' side of the coin?

We're in town from the 20th through the 30th. We have our favorites that are 'must' visits. But we'll also be looking for some new spots to explore.

So whaddaya think bill?

Buddy

P.S. Sorry to all for the temporary hijack of this thread. Thank you for your indulgence.

B.Hey buddy, we actually discussed some of this here:
http://www.roadfood.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8881#137815
Since I'm an expat, this is where Z and Keith need to weigh in. Have you ever been to smokin' guns, ribdog's buddies?
Haven't been to Smokin' Guns yet, but based on numerous mentions here at Roadfood, it is now on the list. As for the Black/White Barbecue issue, the thread in this link is more an overall review of places visited by the original poster. Good reviews, but he doesn't really go in depth with the specific concept of the differences that might be spurred by cultural or racial backgrounds.

You mention noticing these differences "growing up" in KC. Are any of these places that you had in mind still in business? Do you have any specific recollections about which places served which styles. I'm not trying to put you on the spot here. I'm genuinely interested in learning more about those differences and, where possible, sampling same.

Buddy


There is a newer place down the road from LC's called Big T's. I have not eaten there but was told it is definitely of the black bbq variety.
Growing up we had particular preferences. For brisket and pork, I liked the black kind. Arthur Bryant's and Boyd's were our favorites. AB is of course still around, Boyd's is long gone. Oscar's was another example of black bbq, also long gone. Black bbq seemed spicier and somewhat fattier than the white versions, like Bill said.

For chicken and ribs, I was partial to the white bbq. Rosedale, Quick's and another place in KCK whose name I can't remember. It's gone, too.

These days I've narrowed it down to LC's for black, Oklahoma Joe's for white, although I try to get to Smokin' Guns ocassionally and Woodyard for the white kind. If Oklahoma Joe's wasn't 5 minutes from my house I'd probably drive to NKC to Smokin' Guns. I think they're really good.

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

quote:

Originally posted by Michael HoffmanAnd just exactly what red state blue state crap were you talking about?

Not takin' the bait Mikey. Have a nice day and Happy Holidays.

Buddy

That's OK Bubby. I never thought you were a carp.

Where I come from it IS a good part of the Soul so my answer is YES.

Where do you come from

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

quote:

Originally posted by Michael HoffmanAnd just exactly what red state blue state crap were you talking about?

Not takin' the bait Mikey. Have a nice day and Happy Holidays.

Buddy

That's OK Bubby. I never thought you were a carp.

"Bubby"? What am I, your Grandmother? Have another piece of gefilte fish dahlink, you're skinny like a bird.

Hoping your shamas was the last to burn out,

Buddy

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyRoadhouse

quote:

Originally posted by Michael HoffmanAnd just exactly what red state blue state crap were you talking about?

Not takin' the bait Mikey. Have a nice day and Happy Holidays.

Buddy

That's OK Bubby. I never thought you were a carp.

"Bubby"? What am I, your Grandmother? Have another piece of gefilte fish dahlink, you're skinny like a bird.

Hoping your shamas was the last to burn out,

Buddy

You're Bubby as long as you call me Mikey.

Bubby it is then.

Have a delightful Christmas and a Happy New Year,

Bubby

In my opinion, Cajunking hit the nail on the head...

Bubala the Carp knows Q

quote:

Originally posted by MilwFoodlovers

Bubala the Carp knows Q

http://www.thegreenhead.com/2005/01/fish-with-human-face-video-images.php