Joe Paterno Dies

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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/24 13:54:45 (permalink)
Paterno and Sandusky had offices in the same complex. Knowing what a scumbag Sandusky was, and seeing kids parade in and out of the offices would have lead an honorable man to see that it ended.
 
#31
Mosca
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/24 17:49:29 (permalink)
All this says is that Paterno had to be an idiot to not know. So the choices are 1) Paterno was an idiot and didn't know, but was an iron fisted ruler of the PSU campus (by all accounts, he was), or 2) Paterno knew, and covered it up.
 
Of those choices, #2 is more likely. The man was no idiot.
 
MetroplexJim

Even though a police investigation had cleared him of the (initial) 1998 charges, Sandusky - in his coaching primemysteriously and suddenly "retired" at the end of that season.  To me that would seem to be an attitude of "zero tolerance" on the part of Coach Paterno.  What more could he do?  Call the police that had already cleared Sandusky?  As Sandusky, absent any conviction, was out of a job he negotiated both a cash settlement from PSU and continuing access to its facilities. 

Clearly though, Sandusky did not want to "retire": my alma mater, U.Va., reportedly offered him the head coaching position in he had sought in 2000, but mysteriously and suddenly withdrew the offer.  As Virginia's retiring coach was a protege of Coach Paterno it does not take much imagination to think that JoePa "dropped a dime".

Regarding the "locker room incident" McQueary testifed under oath to the grand jury that he was purposefully vague with Paterno, out of deference to his age and generation.  He said, "You don't talk about those things with Joe Paterno." 

Despite having the benefit of only a highly sanitized version of what had happened Coach Paterno told his boss, the Director of Athletics and his boss' boss, the Vice President for Administration to investigate.  Both those individuals have now been indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice.  Not only did they commit those crimes, they violated both Paterno's trust and, given his earned position, directive.  

To me, the $60 million "fine", the $65 million in bowl revenue that the Big 10 will withhold and donate to charity, the devastation of its football program, and the huge civil settlements still yet to come are insufficient prices to pay for the craven "institutional failure" on such a scale.

What more within the law or not causing a tort could Paterno have done?  As Captain, he went down with the ship.  As Paterno already has six feet of mud on his face, let's let him rest. 



#32
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 00:21:51 (permalink)
The NCAA penalties:
I'm going through these one by one.
$60 million fine
Chump change for Penn State. Is this the money that's supposed to go towards abuse prevention? Fine, but it's not going to change the fact all those boys were damaged. Are any of the victims receiving restitution or is that information being kept confidential due to the nature of the crime?
the loss of all of coach Joe Paterno's victories from 1998-2011
This is ridiculous.What are they going to do, go back & give the win to all the opposing teams? Just Plain Stupid, aka JPS.
four-year ban on bowl games
JPS. JoePa's cowardly inactions are not fault of the current, new & future players. They shouldn't be penalized in this way.
the loss of 20 scholarships per year over four years
JPS & this is the one that really pisses me off. For some of those young guys, a football scholarship is their only way out of their city. Why should they be penalized? JPS!!!!!!!!!
five years' probation
Probation from what?
any current or incoming football players are free to immediately transfer & compete at another school
All expenses paid by Penn State?
#33
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 00:28:06 (permalink)
Mosca All this says is that Paterno had to be an idiot to not know. So the choices are 1) Paterno was an idiot and didn't know, but was an iron fisted ruler of the PSU campus (by all accounts, he was), or 2) Paterno knew, and covered it up.

Of those choices, #2 is more likely. The man was no idiot.
Italian idiots are rare, our fathers & grandfathers tend not to put up with idiots for very long. He knew what was going on, which makes it worse.
 
If he really ruled with an iron fist, he would have stuck it *expletives deleted* and forced San-dumbass to resign.
#34
CCinNJ
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 00:45:44 (permalink)
If you were to entertain the notion that a dime was dropped in 2000 (just about a job)..why would Sandusky still be...

A) walking the streets?

B) in the Penn State shower abusing a boy after that?
#35
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 02:15:40 (permalink)
^Good question, CC!!!
If he knew it is the same as committing the crime yourself. 
And there you have it.
If it was your Son and you found out that he knew what would you do?
MetroPlexJim, I await your answer to this question.
Also: I take no pleasure in someones misfortune. The whole thing makes me sick. Pathetic above the law pigs sitting idle while they allow this thing to molest children. Destroying and scarring them for ever. Stealing from them innocence and a whole life. They were so messed up they held it in for years. How dare you imply that I took pleasure out of this. If it were my son Sandusky never would have made it to jail.
For you to think ANYONE is taking pleasure in this? Means you're delusional.  We are ANGRY. Angry that Sandusky was able to continue this, and angry with JoePa for not speaking up when he first heard about it & making SURE Sandusky went to jail. Instead, MORE PEOPLE WERE ABUSED. What part of your brain is not comprehending that? You can talk about torts all you want, quite frankly 8 hours a day isn't enough for me, so I dug this up:
 
"A body of rights, obligations, and remedies that is applied by courts in civil proceedings to provide relief for persons who have suffered harm from the wrongful acts of others. The person who sustains injury or suffers pecuniary damage as the result of tortious conduct is known as the plaintiff, and the person who is responsible for inflicting the injury and incurs liability for the damage is known as the defendant or tortfeasor.


Three elements must be established in every tort action. First, the plaintiff must establish that the defendant was under a legal duty to act in a particular fashion. Second, the plaintiff must demonstrate that the defendant breached this duty by failing to conform his or her behavior accordingly. Third, the plaintiff must prove that he suffered injury or loss as a direct result of the defendant's breach."
With his continued silence, YES!!!, Paterno did cause a tort. What more could he have done, you ask? He could have told. He could have said "NO! This is NOT acceptable. NOT on my campus."  BUT HE DIDN'T!!!

I can't believe you're defending an abuser's enabler. That speaks volumes as well.
If Paterno did not know about it and hid it. Then why are they removing him from the University?
Because it is ludicrous to have that blasted statue on campus where those victims will have to see it, walk past it & think to themselves, "Why didn't he tell? Why didn't he help me?" Enough is enough. And the Paternos should really keep their omerta on this. No one cares what they think now. 
#36
MetroplexJim
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 09:53:45 (permalink)
stricken_detective

"A body of rights, obligations, and remedies that is applied by courts in civil proceedings to provide relief for persons who have suffered harm from the wrongful acts of others. The person who sustains injury or suffers pecuniary damage as the result of tortious conduct is known as the plaintiff, and the person who is responsible for inflicting the injury and incurs liability for the damage is known as the defendant or tortfeasor".


My point exactly.  Imagine what would have happened if Paterno, after the 1998 police investigation "cleared" Sandusky, had not "merely" forced Sandusky's sudden and mysterious "retirement" and instead called a press conference and said:
 
"I fired Sandusky because he's a child molester.  Yeah, I know the Pennsylvania State Police cleared him but those clowns couldn't close a door, much less a case on this vile diddler of children.  Therefore, I, the Great JoePa, in my capacity as the absolute lord and master not only of the Pennsylvania State University but of the entire Commonwealth, have acted as investigator, judge, jury, and executioner in this matter and not only fired his ass but have also ordered his exile from the Commonwealth".
 
Had Paterno done that does anyone doubt for a minute that the "police cleared" Sandusky would not have been able to sue JoePa for everything he had, including the false choppers? 
 
As it was Sandusky probably threatened suit against PSU over his "retirement" and did in fact get a $168,000 cash payment, PSU pension, and access to PSU facilities.  Penn State and its lawyers negotiated that, not Paterno.
stricken_detective
I can't believe you're defending an abuser's enabler.

 
I am most certainly not!  I believe that the true enablers here were the craven and cowardly PSU administrators (and their craven and cowardly lawyers).  JoePa had fired the SOB and probably "caught sh*t" from the PSU lawyers for that, given that the police had cleared Sandusky. 
 
Years after he had fired Sandusky, JoePa heard a highly sanitized depiction of Sandusky's miscreance in a PSU facility.  He then told the appropriate administrators to investigate.  Short of his assuming the mantle of investigator, judge, jury, and executioner, what more could JoePa have done?  I'm sure that he went to his grave wondering the same thing.
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CCinNJ
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 12:03:57 (permalink)
You give him zero credit for all those years he had a system in place to know everything about his players as far as grades...behavior (that could jeopardize the team) etc. and with that system how to carefully navigate all the NCAA rules to prevent sanctions fines and lawsuits.... internal or external....with pinpoint execution when it came to the football program.

With that experience and power he developed a way to get all of the information that he wanted. Certainly not by means of the weak little sisters of the poor characterization of what happened that Saturday morning. Someone came to him about this and he stopped them from telling him everything...because "he was so upset". That's nonsense. At that point he needed to ask to be told everything so he could truly handle it and see to it that that child and every other child that came before him was safe...to avoid every other child after these children to face the same harm.

He didn't want to know anything. He didn't want to think about it in a sexual sense. But it wasn't a consentual sexual experience...it was a crime against a helpless child. If that's either not worthy of attention or can't be handled by this man known as the most powerful man around...he had no place being a leader of young men...having a statue in the first place...or an ounce of sympathy.
post edited by CCinNJ - 2012/07/25 14:02:57
#38
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 14:08:33 (permalink)
MetroplexJim   I'm sure that he went to his grave wondering the same thing.

 
I think he went to his grave thinking, "Thank god I'm dying before I have to face what I've done."
#39
plb
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 15:28:53 (permalink)
What about women's sports?  Generally women’s basketball loses money and is subsidized by the profits from men’s basketball.  That leaves football to pay for all other women’s, and most of the costs of other men’s sports.  If they fine the football program and put in policies that lessen its revenue, where will the money come from?  Will they cut women’s sports or pay for them from the academic budget?  (per The WSJ, football generates $50.6 million while spending $10.4 million)
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 15:29:43 (permalink)
The 1998 police investigation involved Penn State University police.  I think that any objective observer would find it odd that such an investigation would be dropped.  And seeing as though Joe Paterno was the hammer on that campus, I think it's likely that he indirectly or directly influenced the discontinuance of the investigation.  Kind of suspicious how the "innocent" Sandusky was forced out shortly after that incident.
#41
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 15:38:10 (permalink)
plb

What about women's sports?  Generally women’s basketball loses money and is subsidized by the profits from men’s basketball.  That leaves football to pay for all other women’s, and most of the costs of other men’s sports.  If they fine the football program and put in policies that lessen its revenue, where will the money come from?  Will they cut women’s sports or pay for them from the academic budget?  (per The WSJ, football generates $50.6 million while spending $10.4 million)


The University is being punished because of a conspiracy whereby high ranking Penn State officials (including Joe Paterno) covered up the activities of a serial child rapist.  A main reason that it was covered up was to protect the football program, and presumably, its revenue stream.  Of course it's going to impact other sports and the University as a whole:  It's a punishment.  The administrators should have considered the consequences of their actions before they conspired to cover them up.
 
I keep wondering why they didn't just turn Sandusky in.  All of these major college programs (Yes, even St. Joe's of Paternoville) have dirt on them.  My guess is that they were afraid that he would squeal on the program if they turned him in.  That's the only explanation that I can think of which allowed him to continue to use University facilities to continue his child raping.
#42
CCinNJ
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/25 15:58:57 (permalink)
Maybe they looked at it (when they knew who knows when that was) as damage control first. Everyone for the most part was involved in some manner there with Second Mile.. They all had working and fundraising relations with Second Mile). That business continued after the shower incident that was never reported to any Police Dept. If I recall correctly even Joe Paterno attended (maybe spoke) at a fundraiser for Matt Sandusky (who sadly revealed he was a victim as well recently)....after the shower incident.

Maybe their objective was to just keep "it" away from Penn State....even if it meant helping Second Mile be the place where he did his thing.
#43
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/26 01:59:44 (permalink)
CCinNJ
Maybe their objective was to just keep "it" away from Penn State....even if it meant helping Second Mile be the place where he did his thing.
That just turned my blood into ice.
 
I can't talk about this anymore.

#44
CCinNJ
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/26 02:22:56 (permalink)
I had to navigate a situation from my first day of high school...when my guidance counselor came to reg to introduce herself...and she realized I graduated from the same grammar school as the father of her baby who was two years older. She was pregnant and from that day on...I had to find a way to walk a minefield of someone who was so troubled needy and dangerous (and in the position of influence and control) that wanted to either be my best friend or worst enemy....until I left high school and had to find a way to some peaceful path of education as a 15 year old. It wasn't easy.

http://www.nytimes.com/20...er.html?pagewanted=all

Many people who could have put a stop to it knew at the time. She married him after he graduated...and she eventually abused a friend of her son.

#45
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Re:Joe Paterno Dies 2012/07/26 09:55:02 (permalink)
All I can say is Wow... to CC. Amazing the extent that people will go to to ignore a situation. It's sad and probably goes on much more than we know.
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