Just getting a drink at the fast food joint??

You better think twice about that little convenience.

A seventh grader's science project discovered that in many cases, the water is cleaner in a fast food restaurant's toilet than in their ice machine. Full story here: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/story?id=1641825&page=1

quote:

The 12-year-old collected ice samples from five restaurants in South Florida — from both self-serve machines inside the restaurant and from drive-thru windows. She then collected toilet water samples from the same restaurants and tested all of them for bacteria at the University of South Florida.

In several cases, the ice tested positive for E. coli bacteria, which comes from human waste and has been linked to several illness outbreaks across the country.

I only wish they identified the offenders.

This is VERY common. The main reason same happens is that employees do not use the provided ice scoop and DO NOT WASH THEIR HANDS!!!. I would dare to say that the ice in the front line & carry-out areas are even more contaminated (as opposed to the main ice machine).

That was pretty much the take that the professor interviewed from USF had to say. I always thought that the folks who ordered their drinks with no ice were trying to get full value for their drink -- little did I know that they were trying to avoid E Coli.

As the same professor said, if it makes people more aware of the problem, then it is a good thing. I don't think this will be the final nail in the coffin for the fast food industry.

"As the same professor said, if it makes people more aware of the problem..."

The industry is well aware of the problem. It has been for years. However, the enforcement of basic sanitation rules are often left to the local restaurant management. As we all know, that is usually a joke.

The same is probably true for a lot of mom and pop places and even high end restaurants as well.

quote:

Originally posted by stevekoe

That was pretty much the take that the professor interviewed from USF had to say. I always thought that the folks who ordered their drinks with no ice were trying to get full value for their drink -- little did I know that they were trying to avoid E Coli.

As the same professor said, if it makes people more aware of the problem, then it is a good thing. I don't think this will be the final nail in the coffin for the fast food industry.

There's no reason to think the issue is limited to "fast" food. The contaminated ice issue is common to all eating establishments. It's also common elsewhere. Every time I ride an AMTRAK train I am slightly horrified by their practice of putting a big bucket of ice open in the sleeping cars with a scoop sitting in it (often with the handle resting in the ice) for use by passengers. It's almost always sitting next to or across the hall from a bathroom. But regular restaurants make the same food-handling errors as fast food places.

BT (who for 26 years was intermittently responsible for sanitation inspections on Navy ships and has plenty of horror stories)

Good article to say the least... But I wonder if the 12 year old, in taking samples, followed procedures to prevent cross contamination between the samples (storage and handling).

quote:

Originally posted by Adjudicator

"As the same professor said, if it makes people more aware of the problem..."

The industry is well aware of the problem. It has been for years. However, the enforcement of basic sanitation rules are often left to the local restaurant management. As we all know, that is usually a joke.

The industry may well be aware of the problem, but unless there is any public outcry -- or even public conciousness, there is no incentive to do anything to fix it. I hope the alternative is not that someone will actually need to contract something nasty to make the general public aware of this issue.

Believe me - I am not one of those people who are hyper-protective/sensitive to these things. I am more in the camp of those who wonder how people survived up until now for years and years and years without all the "protections" that we have now. How many of our parents smoked a cigarette while we were in the womb? Many of us that fall into that camp don't have a third eye, no? Yet, it makes us glance twice whenever we see a pregnant woman smoking a cigarette, don't we?

So, I guess if people can become as aware of this problem as they are of the pregnant woman smoking problem, something can be done to correct this going forward.

quote:

Originally posted by BT

There's no reason to think the issue is limited to "fast" food. The contaminated ice issue is common to all eating establishments.

I didn't mean to imply that it was. However, it is the issue that is addressed in the article.

My purpose was simply to take a topical news article to take a swipe at the fast food industry!

I'm really surprised the toilets were that clean. But I guess if the student was a "she" she would have collected the samples from the ladies room.

Our local CBS station does restuarant grade reviews several times a week and just about everyone that has received a poor grade mention mold in the drink dispencer or ice machine. We have also discovered several of our favorite places can't keep their $^#&@*@ kitchens clean.... hence a roll back on eating out. One was a place my wife raved about for the first 8 years we were together. They got a 75.5 last week with a regrade of 88.... that's a C upgraded to a B.


And yes they got hit for the mold problem.


Dennis in ever more expensive Cary

quote:

Originally posted by stevekoe



As the same professor said, if it makes people more aware of the problem, then it is a good thing. I don't think this will be the final nail in the coffin for the fast food industry.

Steve:

It is to this last sentence I was responding in saying the problem isn't limited to fast food. What you are really doing is taking a perfectly justifiable swipe at the restaurant industry.

I was going to mention above but forgot--so I'll do it now--that the problem certainly isn't limited either to ice or to E. coli. Actually, the problem is probably worse with foods eaten raw such as salads because they can be contaminated not only by unwashed hands but by preparation surfaces like cutting boards on which other foods get prepped. For example, if your salad veggies get cut up on the same surface that has previously been used for chicken, you can be in trouble. The high frequency of salmonella contamination in poultry may not matter to the chicken because it gets cooked, but the salad doesn't and will make you sick.

Then there's the issue that E. coli per se is often harmless. Certainly there are pathogenic E. coli like the ones that have made some kids deathly ill from inadequately cooked burgers, but most E. coli are not pathogenic and the presence of E. coli in food is meerly a marker for fecal contamination. That needs to worry us because with fecal contamination comes viral diseases like hepatitis and others. I have often told friends in San Francisco, where a majority of staff in the small Asian restaurants I love are foreign born in countries where hepatitis is endemic, that I think anyone who eats in them as often as I do should definitely be immunized against hepatitis.

"fecal matter from warm-blooded animals?"

Rats?

Or from human contamination?

Gotta keep an eye on those dishwashers!

Thanks for the info, Steve, Informative and scary.

And yet, considering all the fast food we consume, there isn't a huge nationwide outbreak of e coli related diseases. Really folks, is a "scientific" experiment from a 12 year old really scientific? This is just another example of media hype. Just another example of media hype trying to fuel public panic. Just because you hear it on the news, doesn't make it true..

" "These [bacteria] don't belong there," said Dr. David Katz, medical contributo to "Good Morning America." "It's not cause for panic, although it is alarming because what she found is nothing new. You're not more likely to get sick now. But she's done us a favor by sounding the alarm."

Both Roberts and Katz said that the ice is likely dirtier because machines aren't cleaned and people use unwashed hands to scoop ice. Toilet water is also surprisingly bacteria-free, because it comes from sanitized city water supplies."


So, aparently, the little 12 year old's findings weren't so far off base. And, considering she won an award with her project, I'm sure the judges checked her work thoroughly. I don't think it's hype at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

"
So, aparently, the little 12 year old's findings weren't so far off base. And, considering she won an award with her project, I'm sure the judges checked her work thoroughly. I don't think it's hype at all.

Believe me, they weren't off-base. Anybody with acceess to a clinical bacteriology lab--meaning just about any doctor or other medical practitioner--could easily repeat this experiment but I don't think anybody with a background in public health would seriously doubt it.

BT M.D.

What's surprising it the surprise. I got so sick from ice on a United or American fight out of Mexico City many years ago that I have to giggle about mammal crap in a drink from where ever...it's everywhere folks.

The ice issue has always been a big concern in the restaurant biz, fast food or otherwise. Like putting beer and wine bottles in the ice bin that is being used for drinks also. Or customers asking for refills and the buspeople using the same glass to scoop out the ice.

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

" "These [bacteria] don't belong there," said Dr. David Katz, medical contributo to "Good Morning America." "It's not cause for panic, although it is alarming because what she found is nothing new. You're not more likely to get sick now. But she's done us a favor by sounding the alarm."

Both Roberts and Katz said that the ice is likely dirtier because machines aren't cleaned and people use unwashed hands to scoop ice. Toilet water is also surprisingly bacteria-free, because it comes from sanitized city water supplies."


So, aparently, the little 12 year old's findings weren't so far off base. And, considering she won an award with her project, I'm sure the judges checked her work thoroughly. I don't think it's hype at all.

See, I really do differ here. It is hype. These are the stories that run all the time on the news in sweeps months (which, I assure you, includes February). Ever notice that the local news always runs the "Find out which restaurants in your area are the filthiest" report during sweeps months -- always. Next time it is on, I am willing to bet that it is in either November, February or May.

What makes this story particularly shocking, though, is the comparison to TOILET WATER! The idea is that no one would willing drink that in which you poo (unless, of course, there is a golden retriever among us?). I think that we have all become somewhat desensitized to the sensationalized news reports about filthy restaurants, because we do hear it all the time. That said, I don't think that anyone wants to hear that the water that comes from the toilet has less "human waste" content than the ice machine.

I wonder what she would have found if she compared raw foods made on site, like sub sandwiches, with toilet water. Probably pretty much the same thing.

I thought some primetime news show did something like this a while back, except in the home and not in restaurants. They found that there was less bacteria on or around the toilet then there was on or around the sink. Here's something that says about the same, and a funny quote.

http://www.uagrad.org/Alumnus/w05/germ.html

“If an alien came from space and studied the bacterial counts, he probably would conclude he should wash his hands in your toilet and crap in your sink,” says Dr. Germ, with cheerful bluntness.

sorry, had to edit to fix the link

For all of our (justified) outrage at some of these violations of health codes, I have to think that we should be confident in good old fashioned biology...
Since we have no doubt been exposed many times to these pathogens over a period of time, our bodies can adjust, without necessarily making us violently ill. Somewhat similar to the fact that people in "lesser developed" countries can get along quite well with the food and water that would make the digestive systems of those from more "delicate" (read "developed") cultures revolt!

quote:

Originally posted by tacchino

For all of our (justified) outrage at some of these violations of health codes, I have to think that we should be confident in good old fashioned biology...
Since we have no doubt been exposed many times to these pathogens over a period of time, our bodies can adjust, without necessarily making us violently ill. Somewhat similar to the fact that people in "lesser developed" countries can get along quite well with the food and water that would make the digestive systems of those from more "delicate" (read "developed") cultures revolt!

Great response except that through the continuing dumbing down of people your knowledge will not make the news nor will it create a buzz like the story. And that is sad.

quote:

Originally posted by stevekoe

I always thought that the folks who ordered their drinks with no ice were trying to get full value for their drink.

I don't really like ice in my drinks. Chances are the beverage will be served cold ...

I always used to feel bad like the server thought I was trying to take advantage of them.

Meanwhile, I liked the beer in GB becuase it was cellar temp.

When I order a whisky, I usually ask for just 1 ice cube, to kind of take the edge off the drink.

... I didn't know I was being healthy either.

quote:

Originally posted by stevekoe

quote:

Originally posted by Scorereader

" "These [bacteria] don't belong there," said Dr. David Katz, medical contributo to "Good Morning America." "It's not cause for panic, although it is alarming because what she found is nothing new. You're not more likely to get sick now. But she's done us a favor by sounding the alarm."

Both Roberts and Katz said that the ice is likely dirtier because machines aren't cleaned and people use unwashed hands to scoop ice. Toilet water is also surprisingly bacteria-free, because it comes from sanitized city water supplies."


So, aparently, the little 12 year old's findings weren't so far off base. And, considering she won an award with her project, I'm sure the judges checked her work thoroughly. I don't think it's hype at all.

See, I really do differ here. It is hype. These are the stories that run all the time on the news in sweeps months (which, I assure you, includes February). Ever notice that the local news always runs the "Find out which restaurants in your area are the filthiest" report during sweeps months -- always. Next time it is on, I am willing to bet that it is in either November, February or May.

What makes this story particularly shocking, though, is the comparison to TOILET WATER! The idea is that no one would willing drink that in which you poo (unless, of course, there is a golden retriever among us?). I think that we have all become somewhat desensitized to the sensationalized news reports about filthy restaurants, because we do hear it all the time. That said, I don't think that anyone wants to hear that the water that comes from the toilet has less "human waste" content than the ice machine.

they may NOT want to hear it, but it doesn't make it any less true.
Obviously you have some anger issues to deal with. No need to highlight "toilet water." We all understand the implications of the article, and we all understand why the story was covered. The article didn't sensationalise it, it gave the reasons why the little girl had those findings. And, if keeping ice machine free from bacteria is a problem in restaurants, then the public has a right to know that.
Whether we want to hear it, or not. And the article gave some ideas on how restaurants can help curb the problem, which means good reporting was done.

I didn't say it wasn't true, I said that the story was sensationalized for ratings sweeps. The original story was broadcast on ABC news. This was a link to a copy of that story. If you don't think that this was sensationalized, then you are probably pretty naive.

Why do I have "anger issues"? Because I disagree with you. The toilet water is the sensational part of the story and it is why it was highlighted. I was mocking the news coverage -- and frankly, I can't even believe that I need to explain that.

Nowhere did I say that the student's findings were erroneous, nor did I say that the reporting was shoddy in any way. Really, I don't even know what your beef is, other than your inability to see that there are times when the media makes more out of a story than is really there to sell ad time -- and that is all that I said.

Tacchino makes a good point. I was supervising a job at the corner of France, Belgium and Luxembourg for an Allied Signal plant about ten years ago. We stayed in Arlon Belgium, ate lunch in Luxembourg and worked in France. One Friday at a break three techs poured large glasses of the local tap water and drank them. We all laughed and told them the they would be on the toilet for the weekend. Their reply was that they knew it but wanted to be able to eat and drink what they wanted for the next few months...it worked.

I got conditioned to Mexican pathogens in the mid eighties by the same means. Had a project for the old KOSA plant two hours north of Mexico City and had to spend weeks at a time there. Being careful w/ the water, the veggies, no salads, no ice, and whatever gets old fast. Accept a weekend of it and get on w/ life. This only applies to healthly folks...compromised folks die from trying this procedure.