LP line installation in concession trailer

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stokestackbbq
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2014/03/24 20:53:13 (permalink)

LP line installation in concession trailer

I've just purchased a fryer & range for my BBQ concession trailer, and will be installing the LP line over the next week. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the details. My fryer is 90KBTU, range is 130KBTU, and smoker is 200KBTU (Total BTU just over 400KBTU at max settings). I figured I would run 1" line (600KBTU capacity over 20') so I could supply an ample amount of fuel to my appliances. I wanted to use an auto-changeover regulator on 2 X 100LB propane tanks- but it now appears that won't be enough, as each pigtail is only rated for 200KBTU. 
 
To supply enough fuel, it now appears like I need to run the two tanks in series with a much larger regulator, and then small regulators right at the appliances. Does that make sense, or is there a better way to do this?
 
Keep in mind- I'm in Canada, and will start & end my season with low temps (40°F)
 
--Edit-- I've been doing some more reading, and it seems like my range (Vulcan 36FL) and fryer (Dean ??) both have regulators already. I suppose this means I only need the regulator at the tanks.
 

post edited by stokestackbbq - 2014/03/24 21:40:27
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    edwmax
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/25 11:03:21 (permalink)
    stokestackbbq

      .... I wanted to use an auto-changeover regulator on 2 X 100LB propane tanks- but it now appears that won't be enough, as each pigtail is only rated for 200KBTU. 

    To supply enough fuel, it now appears like I need to run the two tanks in series with a much larger regulator, and then small regulators right at the appliances. Does that make sense, or is there a better way to do this?

    Keep in mind- I'm in Canada, and will start & end my season with low temps (40°F)    ...


     
    NO   ... Because 100lb tanks are only rated at 61,500 BTU @ 40 deg F & abt 80K BTU @ 60 deg F.     So 2 tanks (together) is less than 1/3 to 1/2 BTU capacity needed.   ...    Either reduce max. BTU of appliances (smaller orifices & reduce line pressure at appliance) or use larger tanks; OR BOTH.    It is not likely these appliance will run at max. BTU output all the time; Only while heating up.  Smokers usually operate at minimum heat to maintain 200 to 225 deg F. 
     
    Suggest:
    1.   Tank regulator:   reduce tank pressure to 2 psi supply line pressure.
          3/4 pipe  (20ft <) capacity is 380,000 btu; or 1" pipe (725.000 BTU)
    2.  At 2nd regulator: reduce line pressure to 11" WC; and use a 3/4" manifold to extend appliance connections using 1/2" or 3/8" copper lines.    http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/rough-plumbing/pipe-tubing-fittings/pipe/corrugated-stainless-steel-tubing/3-4-cast-manifold-4-port/p-1405758-c-9529.htm#optional;    ... Appliance regulators (attached to the equipment) usually indicate the piece works at 5 or 6 WC.   Check equipment manual for required input line pressure (11" - 14" WC ??).
     
    Install an emergency shut-off Ball valve before the 2nd regulator with easy access and in plain sight.  http://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/1CKH7_AS01?$zmmain$
    post edited by edwmax - 2014/03/25 11:06:07
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    stokestackbbq
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/25 16:56:45 (permalink)
    Hey Edwmax, 
     
    Thanks for taking the time to respond. I got antsy and got started today after I saw no new responses thismorning. Here's what I've got so far (you're looking at the manifold for the appliances in the trailer, supply will be through the floor to the 90 on the right. excuse the messy dope job)
     

     
    It's pretty much just overkill of what you've suggested. If I've got this right, the best thing to do will be to put a 2nd regulator at the top of these gas valves that reduce the WC to 11. I cannot use larger tanks- so I guess I will be using a regulator at the tanks (run in series) to reduce the line pressure as well. Does that make sense?
     
     
    post edited by stokestackbbq - 2014/03/25 16:58:09
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    edwmax
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/25 19:40:44 (permalink)
    Put the 2nd regulator (11"WC) before the manifold.  Then you only need one.
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    edwmax
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/26 13:55:35 (permalink)
     
    Finished my sketch of the Manifold & valves.  ...

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    stokestackbbq
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/29 15:07:54 (permalink)
    Nice sketch! What program are you using to make those? My MSpaint skills are proving pretty terrible.
     
    Again, I went and did a bunch of work before I checked back here. It's pretty much finished, and now the issue is just the regulators. Speaking of MSpaint, here's how my trailer looks:
     

     
    My main supply line and the manifold is all done in 1" (overkill, yeah) and reduces to 3/4 at the T where it goes back to the smoker. I spoke with a local propane supply place and he told me to put on a two-stage regulator to drop the pressure to 11WC right at the tanks.
     
    So, I bought the regulator and installed it at the tanks. I also removed the regulator that was built into the line on my smoker. I go to test it and the smoker won't fire up. I'm assuming that the pressure drop from the tongue of the trailer to the rear (with a couple 90°s along the way) is too much. So, I tried removing the regulator from the tanks and putting the small regulator back on at the smoker. It fired up just fine. My only issue with it is that I'd driving around with high pressure in 30 feet of gas line. 
     
    I suppose this leaves me at your original answer. Ditch the two-stage regulator, add a , and another (2psi regulator) at the tanks. 
    post edited by stokestackbbq - 2014/03/29 15:14:52
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    edwmax
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/29 18:17:56 (permalink)
    The program is Google sketchup.  It is free, although I use the pro version.   There is a learning curve and even more so if you don't know how to use other 2d cad or 3d programs.
     
    There are many pre-made 3d models that can be down loaded (even commercial food equipment).   But the manifold sketch above, I had to made.  It is assembled tees of which I modified (about the same as you did).  I'll clean it up later to look as a 'one-piece' unit.
     
    As far as 'driving around' with gas in the high pressure lines, that is the function of the OPD valves.  If the link breaks the high flow of gas will cause the valve to shut off the tank.    ... But, you can always (and should) close the tank valves before moving.
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    stokestackbbq
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/29 18:24:40 (permalink)
    I'll take a look at google sketchup. I see a lot of things I could use that for in the future!
     
    So, would you think it a terrible idea to use the dual stage regulator I already have and simply position it before the manifold (where you showed just the 2nd stage regulator)? That way, I don't have to sell mine, and then buy a 1st and 2nd stage regulator. Would the 1/4" inlet on that regulator become a "bottleneck" at all? I'm lost when it comes to determining flow / pressure of gasses. The other thing- it would have to be mounted upsidedown. I don't see that being an issue- but I'll google it.
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    edwmax
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/29 20:45:38 (permalink)
    What is the make and model number of the your 2 stage reg?
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    Rcoy
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/30 11:42:09 (permalink)
    Code here requires all unregulated gas pipe to be minimum schedule 80 or better. I have 2 AMSE 35g tanks with 10 psi first stage regulators @ the shutoff valves then 20' of 1/2 black iron pipe to my 11" wc regulator with a 3/4 outlet which is about 5 feet from my first piece on the hot line.
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    edwmax
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/30 15:21:13 (permalink)
    I think the codes require a regulator (high flow auto-shut off safety) to be within 36" (max. pipe length) of the tank valve
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    stokestackbbq
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/31 10:53:46 (permalink)
    I am fairly certain my regulator is the GR-9412 on .
     
    It makes sense that you would want one regulator at the tanks and a second at the manifold. I am going to go that route.
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    edwmax
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    Re:LP line installation in concession trailer 2014/03/31 15:10:41 (permalink)
    stokestackbbq

    I am fairly certain my regulator is the GR-9412 on .

    It makes sense that you would want one regulator at the tanks and a second at the manifold. I am going to go that route.

     
    You previously asked ...
    So, would you think it a terrible idea to use the dual stage regulator I already have and simply position it before the manifold (where you showed just the 2nd stage regulator)?

    The 1st stage regulator at the tank reduces the tank pressure to 10psi.   So the 2 stage regulator placed at the manifold might work ok or you may have to increase the line pressure to a little more than 10psi.  Basically the 1stage on the 2 state regulator is redundant.  It needs a minimum of 10 psi (or a little more ??) to pass gas though the regulator.
     
     
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