My First Event - How Much to Order?

I have my first event coming up next weekend - a Labor Day festival that lasts three days and traditionally draws 50,000 people over the three days.

I am approaching this as a trial by fire. I will be there the whole time - 12:00 to 8:00 pm each day plus setup time. Also, my wife and our partners (another husband and wife) will be there for the entirety. I have all the bases covered as far as the tent (EZ up from BJ's), tables, food prep, etc., but I have no clue how much food to order.

We're doing Chicago style hot dogs and southern style with chili and slaw. I was thinking I would need around 500 per day, but I just found out there are only 5 other food vendors and we're the only hot dog vendor.

Based on this information, what do you more experienced folks think about the quantity I should order? I'm doing Vienna Beef, who has zero market presence in this part of S.C., so it's not like I can just pop out to Wal-Mart and pick up an extra 10 cases.

What other information do you need before you can give me realistic guidance?

Thanks!
Dave

BTW, we are going with the name "Downtown Dogs"

Dave

Since you are going into business for yourself full time this seems like a good opportunity to buy a big freezer and stock up. I assume your are selling 8/1 so 80/box.

For 8 hours with tons of people I would expect you could do between 300 and 500 a day easily. 20 cases gets you 1600 hot dogs. That should cover your event and stock for a week or so after that. We have a similiar size event here that runs two days and we(Lions Club) sell ~1400 burgers.

If you are doing the poppyseed buns they come in 12 to a steamer box. 1600/12 = ~134 boxes which is ~ 14 cases of buns.

Buns and dogs come frozen from Vienna and you can keep what you don't use frozen.

To do a large volume you may want to set up a roaster oven to steam 4-8 packages of buns at once, + what's steaming on your cart. Serving Vienna product , especially the bun, is all about capacity management. Don't be afraid to get 200 buns steaming in a roaster oven on a table behind your cart. You can rotate those buns to your cart and refill as needed.These buns can sit in their steam boxes for a couple of hours easy. Place some paper towels over them to slow the moisture that may drip through from the lid.

You will really need some labor along for the ride. Sound like you have that covered.

Are you steaming or boiling dogs? Do you have some way to seperate older stock from newer? Try to keep a bunch cooked and a bunch cooking in seperate areas. Also, don't be afraid to thaw out a bunch of product up front. Nothing sucks more than falling behind and watching your temps drop because you are throwing frozen/semi frozen product into your pans. Capacity management. Beef yourself up from 11am -1pm because thats normaly when TSHTF. It will go by fast. Make sure you have someone writing orders down and running down the line of hungry waiters getting thier orders.

I would have 500 buns and dogs thawed and ready to go for day 1. Keep them on ice and out of the sun and they will be fine. Evaluate day 2 based on Day 1. Watch the weather too.

Sounds like fun. I hope you kill them!

Arnie

Go Zomb! I wish I had any sage advice to give other than "err on the side of caution". As Arnie said, most of what you have will keep frozen, so it's hard to over-order. I had a fairly large, not compared to the one you have coming up, but 200 people in 1 hour, the other day and I bought the heck out of buns, toppings, etc. I over-bought, but then just used all the rest for the week and I don't think I lost more than a bag of buns. Must, Ketch, relish, etc, are wonderfully shelf stable, especially if you have large fridge, so buy it up and use it later if need be.

Good luck!!

Vic the Chili Man

My business name is going to be downtown dogs. lol

quote:

Originally posted by Zombuswoof

I have my first event coming up next weekend - a Labor Day festival that lasts three days and traditionally draws 50,000 people over the three days.

I am approaching this as a trial by fire. I will be there the whole time - 12:00 to 8:00 pm each day plus setup time. Also, my wife and our partners (another husband and wife) will be there for the entirety. I have all the bases covered as far as the tent (EZ up from BJ's), tables, food prep, etc., but I have no clue how much food to order.

We're doing Chicago style hot dogs and southern style with chili and slaw. I was thinking I would need around 500 per day, but I just found out there are only 5 other food vendors and we're the only hot dog vendor.

Based on this information, what do you more experienced folks think about the quantity I should order? I'm doing Vienna Beef, who has zero market presence in this part of S.C., so it's not like I can just pop out to Wal-Mart and pick up an extra 10 cases.

What other information do you need before you can give me realistic guidance?

Thanks!
Dave

BTW, we are going with the name "Downtown Dogs"

From some experience here, someone else will do dogs too. They are not just hot dog venders. BBQ and hamburger people always throw dogs out there. Easy for them to cook a few with unused cooking space. there was a post about a formula long,long time ago about #people/venders plus 10%. Never went by that but a go start. Never did one as large as you are about to jump into. It will work out for you and you will do fine. Main thing is you cannot over order as Arnie TX has stated. Last week-end 12k people two day event, 10-10pm , 1400 sausages, 380 hot dogs. Had to compete with the K of C. They do hamburgers,hot dogs,bbq,and fries. Also who is dressing your dogs? Looks time intensive with slaw,chili and chicago style.

Also is this event close to you or are you traveling to get there. Know the local lay out for ice and drinks. Use garbage cans(new and clean) for what you will think is your top sellers. I use 2 one for water and one for coke.
Coolers for others. Saves so much time and cooler space. In the heat of the day people just want drinks, and when really hot- water,water and water. Also if you can put out a can or bottle of whatever flavor somewhere for the people to see so they know what you have, saves time than always being asked and having to go over every drink you have. Also lately close to the evening the mothers are requesting non caffene sodas for their kids. Not alot but they are out there. Sugar and caffene in tired kid spells non-relief. Mom just wants to unwind also.

Zombuswoof talked with a member of Kof C from last weekend and he claims they did over 1k dogs in 2 days on top of their other stuff. They sold their dogs $2.00. Can tell you that is probally correct on the numbers. But they don't dress the dogs, hamburgers,corndogs, french fries or anything else they sell.
Condiments are on tables for the people to decide what they want. I mostly do Polish Sausage/grilled peppers and onions. Dogs on the side for family members that do not want a sausage. Can you find out what other vendors are selling.

quote:

Originally posted by Curbside Grill

Zombuswoof talked with a member of Kof C from last weekend and he claims they did over 1k dogs in 2 days on top of their other stuff. They sold their dogs $2.00. Can tell you that is probally correct on the numbers. But they don't dress the dogs, hamburgers,corndogs, french fries or anything else they sell.
Condiments are on tables for the people to decide what they want. I mostly do Polish Sausage/grilled peppers and onions. Dogs on the side for family members that do not want a sausage. Can you find out what other vendors are selling.

Thanks. The other vendors include a dedicated sausage guy (who does no hot dogs), a BBQ cook-off on day one only (they will only be selling from 12-2), a concession trailer with traditional fair foods such as candy apples and cotton candy, a tent with burgers, and Papa John's pizza.

My understanding of the regs of my state for temporary food service is that we have to dress the dogs with all condiments that aren't in single serve packets.Since we will have both carts, I was thinking of having one cart do all of the Chicago style and Vienna polish since they are both on poppy seed buns, and have the other cart do the regular and quarter pound Vienna along with chili, slaw, etc. They say the first day is slow and the next two are wide open so we can make adjustments if we need to.

As far as pricing, we will sell regular Vienna dogs for $2, Chicago style for $3, Vienna polish for $3, Vienna quarter pound for $3, 20 oz Coke for $2, and big grab chips for a buck. Coke is the sponsor and we can only sell what we get from them or I would rather sell cans. The 20 oz bottles will be $.50 ea though and they take back what we don't sell at the end of the festival. The festival takes no percentage of gross. How do those prices sound?

Thanks, and I apologize for any typos as I am typing this on my new iPhone which has a virtual keyboard instead of the physical one I am used to on my old Blackberry. It is ultranice to have access to the "real" Internet instead of some bogus mobile version.

quote:

Originally posted by Curbside Grill

Also is this event close to you or are you traveling to get there. Know the local lay out for ice and drinks. Use garbage cans(new and clean) for what you will think is your top sellers. I use 2 one for water and one for coke.
Coolers for others. Saves so much time and cooler space. In the heat of the day people just want drinks, and when really hot- water,water and water. Also if you can put out a can or bottle of whatever flavor somewhere for the people to see so they know what you have, saves time than always being asked and having to go over every drink you have. Also lately close to the evening the mothers are requesting non caffene sodas for their kids. Not alot but they are out there. Sugar and caffene in tired kid spells non-relief. Mom just wants to unwind also.

Great idea with the trashcans. I will definitely put that into use. The festival is only two miles from my commercial kitchen so that may be a blessing in disguise for this first event. The festival has an ice cart that will come around a few times per day. Ice from them is $1.50 per 10 on bag. I will get ice from elsewhere to start but that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable price, especially considering the convenience of them bringing it to you.

quote:

Originally posted by ArnieTX

Dave

Since you are going into business for yourself full time this seems like a good opportunity to buy a big freezer and stock up. I assume your are selling 8/1 so 80/box.

For 8 hours with tons of people I would expect you could do between 300 and 500 a day easily. 20 cases gets you 1600 hot dogs. That should cover your event and stock for a week or so after that. We have a similiar size event here that runs two days and we(Lions Club) sell ~1400 burgers.


If you are doing the poppyseed buns they come in 12 to a steamer box. 1600/12 = ~134 boxes which is ~ 14 cases of buns.

Buns and dogs come frozen from Vienna and you can keep what you don't use frozen.

To do a large volume you may want to set up a roaster oven to steam 4-8 packages of buns at once, + what's steaming on your cart. Serving Vienna product , especially the bun, is all about capacity management. Don't be afraid to get 200 buns steaming in a roaster oven on a table behind your cart. You can rotate those buns to your cart and refill as needed.These buns can sit in their steam boxes for a couple of hours easy. Place some paper towels over them to slow the moisture that may drip through from the lid.

You will really need some labor along for the ride. Sound like you have that covered.

Are you steaming or boiling dogs? Do you have some way to seperate older stock from newer? Try to keep a bunch cooked and a bunch cooking in seperate areas. Also, don't be afraid to thaw out a bunch of product up front. Nothing sucks more than falling behind and watching your temps drop because you are throwing frozen/semi frozen product into your pans. Capacity management. Beef yourself up from 11am -1pm because thats normaly when TSHTF. It will go by fast. Make sure you have someone writing orders down and running down the line of hungry waiters getting thier orders.

I would have 500 buns and dogs thawed and ready to go for day 1. Keep them on ice and out of the sun and they will be fine. Evaluate day 2 based on Day 1. Watch the weather too.

Sounds like fun. I hope you kill them!

Arnie

Dang, Arnie. You didn't waste any time going from a question asking newbie (like me) to an über-pro, information dispensin' fool. Thanks for the specs. How long does it take to steam the Vienna par-baked buns?

Your prices look good.

Why not just use Poppy Seed buns for all the dogs? The STEAMED bun really makes the dog....I've never used Viennas plain bun.

Thawed buns will steam inside their box in about a minute. They can stay in the steamers for a couple of hours without getting mushy. I use papertowels and bar towels in my steamer pans. Your Chicago cart will need to have lots of buns in the steam and rotating. Trust me , if you get busy the buns are going to slow you down. Been there done that.

I would sleep in my hot dog cart if I could!

Arnie

Have you got an idea on numbers to order yet. If anything like the events I have done,would keep the 8/1 and Polish 5/1 the same number. Would keep 4/1 dog at 1/3 to 1/2 of 8/1. With the pricing for what you are charging seems low. Did not know 2carts involved. This is new now but do not under charge. If they are selling hamburgers for $3.00 yes, you have to compete. But think of your time and effort. people always expect a little higher price there.
But if Fri. slow as stated would check out other prices. You have a captive audience there. Sorry the storm is here and the cats are going bananas, jumped on the desk and hit everything they shouldn't. Had to quit early today for the storms.

quote:

Originally posted by ArnieTX

Your prices look good.

Why not just use Poppy Seed buns for all the dogs? The STEAMED bun really makes the dog....I've never used Viennas plain bun.

Thawed buns will steam inside their box in about a minute. They can stay in the steamers for a couple of hours without getting mushy. I use papertowels and bar towels in my steamer pans. Your Chicago cart will need to have lots of buns in the steam and rotating. Trust me , if you get busy the buns are going to slow you down. Been there done that.

I would sleep in my hot dog cart if I could!

Arnie

Around these parts some people look at you funny when you give them a poppy seed bun. I am getting non-poppy Vienna buns for the regular dogs. I think we will sell no more than 200 Chicago style per day. I hope I'm wrong but for most of the folks we will see this weekend this will be their first exposure to the goodness of a true CSD. Around here most of the hot dog joints serve Ball Park or some other bland dog. There is one vendor who serves Sabretts. I am going to be relying on transplants who will get excited about a real CSD and residents who will pretend to know what it is to seem cool. Once word spreads I think we'll be alright. That's why it's important to give them something else that is more familiar, like a chili slaw dog or polish sausage.

Did you ever get your marketing material from Vienna? They have a giant tin sign of a Chicago Dog. It's very nice. Would make a great display.

I'm in the same boat. Everyone around here has never seen a poppyseed bun but I have yet to find someone who doesn't like them after they tried them. They are dang good! If it has Vienna written on it you should be fine.

Are the non poppyseed par baked also?

Thanks

Arnie

ZBW,

The is a story about two friends of mine from Troy, NY. That area is dominated by NY style dogs like Sabrett, Hebrew National, and Nathan's. http://alloveralbany.com/archive/2008/08/26/checking-out-the-chicagostyle-hot-dogs-at-nipper
www.nippershotdogs.com

CSD PhD Professor of Hot Dogs

quote:

Originally posted by ArnieTX

Did you ever get your marketing material from Vienna? They have a giant tin sign of a Chicago Dog. It's very nice. Would make a great display.

I'm in the same boat. Everyone around here has never seen a poppyseed bun but I have yet to find someone who doesn't like them after they tried them. They are dang good! If it has Vienna written on it you should be fine.

Are the non poppyseed par baked also?

Thanks

Arnie

I got a few big packages from Vienna with the marketing materials. I have a large tin Polish sign and a Maxwell St. banner, but not the Chicago dog versions. I have the Chicago style counter cards that I have modified to a flat display on the carts (during regular hours) or on our menu at the tent for festivals.

The non-poppy seed buns are par baked as well and are the exact same thing without the seeds. All in all, they are hella-good buns.

quote:

Originally posted by chicagostyledog

ZBW,

The is a story about two friends of mine from Troy, NY. That area is dominated by NY style dogs like Sabrett, Hebrew National, and Nathan's. http://alloveralbany.com/archive/2008/08/26/checking-out-the-chicagostyle-hot-dogs-at-nipper
www.nippershotdogs.com

CSD PhD Professor of Hot Dogs

Thanks for the link, CSD. They have some tasty looking dogs.

Good deal man!

Take pics for us when you set up. We wanna see.....

Arnie

Hot dogs alone would plan 60 Fri (if truth about dead),250 sat. and 200 sun.That is pain dog only. Just my guess. With everything else added in who knows. Know my area and $4.00 for a polish(5/1) always flies off the cart. Always steam the buns. At the fairs here 5/1 go for $7-8 so my prices aren't to far off. $2 plain dog will drive them to cart. UP sell all the time. Try different mustards also. Brn mustard, dijon mustard and a different topping like chow chow (hot or mild). This can be had a local grocery store small quanity at first. You will be surprised at the number of people that want a change. And some orders-glad it is their stomachs. Good place to try new things. Spicey mustard on polish with kraut!!! Big seller. Also on the dog. You will find that the 4/1 dog will sell about half or less of what the 8/1 does. Given a choice people will go with the cheaper dog. Outragious as is CSD does "Big wally" at special occasions. Why not try a case. Granted the buns you have to small but a small quantity again from local source. Lots of diced onions, relish and mustards. I do not do Viennas but about the same count.

quote:

Originally posted by Curbside Grill

Hot dogs alone would plan 60 Fri (if truth about dead),250 sat. and 200 sun.That is pain dog only. Just my guess. With everything else added in who knows. Know my area and $4.00 for a polish(5/1) always flies off the cart. Always steam the buns. At the fairs here 5/1 go for $7-8 so my prices aren't to far off. $2 plain dog will drive them to cart. UP sell all the time. Try different mustards also. Brn mustard, dijon mustard and a different topping like chow chow (hot or mild). This can be had a local grocery store small quanity at first. You will be surprised at the number of people that want a change. And some orders-glad it is their stomachs. Good place to try new things. Spicey mustard on polish with kraut!!! Big seller. Also on the dog. You will find that the 4/1 dog will sell about half or less of what the 8/1 does. Given a choice people will go with the cheaper dog. Outragious as is CSD does "Big wally" at special occasions. Why not try a case. Granted the buns you have to small but a small quantity again from local source. Lots of diced onions, relish and mustards. I do not do Viennas but about the same count.

Just got in after the first night and I am exhausted. I got there around 8:30 to set everything up and get health department inspected. Had same inspector that inspected my cart. I was very careful to have EVERYTHING the regs required. Inspector made some chit chat and handed me a permit without ever looking at anything.

Unless 48,000 people show up tomorrow and Monday, I think the city might be just a tad bit off on its numbers. I kept seeing the same few hundred people pass by all day long. They did say that the first day is dead and they were right. Grossed about $300 today which was very disappointing. Talked to some other vendors including a funnel cake guy, caribbean food guy, and some crafts people - they all said they made around $300.00 today.

For me, however, it isn't totally about the money - it's about the simplicity of the transaction. It was incredibly refreshing to prepare good food, hand it to someone, get their money, and be done with my interaction with them. I don't have to worry about talking to them every day for the next two years like I do now in my legal capacity.

A big morale booster was the fact that my first dog of the day was a full Chicago style - sold to an excited craft vendor who ran up to my carts after seeing the Vienna umbrella. She asked, "Do you have real Vienna or just the umbrellas?" I told her it was the real deal. Then she asked about the neon relish and made me show her before she ordered.

Surprisingly, we sold more Chicago style than any other type all day long. That gives me hope that I'm not blindly going to lose my shirt when the cart goes full time in about a month in our downtown area. I can see now that there is demand for it here and it is not being served at all. I had a lot of folks order a Chicago style who had never seen one before but thought the picture on the menu card looked good - this reinforces my belief that people have to see what they're buying in addition to a description.

Others just wanted a simple "hoggog" and we delivered - with a .21 Sabrett loss leader that went for 2 bucks. I only wasted 4 Vienna buns today, I was very proud of that. At the end of the night I had 21 Viennas and Sabretts left and twenty minutes before closing I started barking out a "dollar dog" sale. People suddenly appeared like cockroaches when the lights go out. I ended up tossing only 3 Sabretts and sold all the Viennas I had cooked. I know that this is not because of my innate ability to predict sales accurately, but instead to blind luck.

Tomorrow should be better and they say Monday is "balls to the wall" all day long. I am looking forward to being slammed. I'll post pictures later today after I upload from my phone.

Thanks for all your help and guidance. I couldn't have done it without you.

Dave

Awesome job man! Ain't it fun?

Great report.

Arnie

Very good. Get use to that with insp. believe it is the product category that you are in. Non-hazardous. They always just chit chat while looking( general overview) of your set-up. Even your personal hygene makes a difference. Never been hassled by them anywhere. Now as always numbers will always be off (way off). But, now you can have some experince from yesterday and today to prepare for Monday. Don't always believe what other vendors say. Have some expereince barking going home price, where did that come from. Alot of new people don't do that.

Here are a few pics of our setup. We are tweaking it today a bit to add some signage on the face of the tent - we realized more than halfway through the day that people might not realize what we're selling. They'll walk by and look in but with out counter cardsflat on the table and our polish sausage tin sign on the floor, they probably didn't see it clearly. This being our first event, we simply didn't have enough time to think of everything and I forgot to bring binder clips to hang the Vienna counter cards.

[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/2814056940_aed49950b0.jpg?v=0[/img]

[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3204/2813205213_d262616790.jpg?v=0[/img]

[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2813205521_fe146e54da.jpg?v=0[/img]

Drumroll .........................................

How did it go bud? I hope you kicked a$$.



Arnie

The second day was slower than the first. Day two saw a gross of only $125 even though it seemed we were a lot busier. We had a lot of tire kickers who didn't have any money who bought $2 dogs when they bought anything at all. All of the vendors had the same complaints as we did - slow turnout, the Chamber of Commerce misled everyone about attendance (intentional or not), you had to buy drinks from them to sell and they told the vendors initially they were $.50 but they ended being $.67 ea. I would estimate there was no more than 5,000 people total over three days. We purchased 1500 dogs and polish sausages expecting 30,000 people. Needless to say we have a bunch leftover and are looking for another festival this coming weekend so we can get rid of our existing stock.

Day three was finally busy and we sold over $700. Loads of Chicago dogs, real polishes, and our loss leader two dollar dogs. Two dollar dogs aren't really a loss leader as there is approximately $1.65 left after deducting food cost. After ice and gas we probably ended up losing money.

Also, we were told we would be the only hot dog vendors but there was a family who looked like the Clampetts that set up a Wal-Mart camping shelter and served Oscar Meyer dogs out of a crockpot. To say I was pissed would be an understatement. I told the organizers (the city's chamber of commerce) that I would like the entry fee returned at a minimum - still waiting to hear back on that one.

All in all, it was an excellent educational experience. I can now whip out a real Chicago dog like it is nobody's business, we didn't have anybody waiting more than a minute to get their order and I have a good feel for running the cart. I met a lot of other vendors who do this full time and started the networking process. Most of them are really colorful people who have done a little of everything. My favorite was an older couple who run a trailer. He is a retired opthamologist and she was a belly dancer. Most everyone said they would not return to this festival next year. I won't be going back either.

(Edited to remove iPhone typos - those little virtual keys are small and my meathooks are not)

Zombuswoof WELCOME to the world of events. Relientconcessions can chime in on this one. Lied to is the number one thing to remember about organizers. They can and will at their convenence. That is why I did numbers as I did. Your $2.00 flew out the door but anything higher flopped. Try to stick with one product there. 1/8 dogs and 1/5 sausage only. No two prices on 8/1. Whatever you offer they what cheap. 50k turned into 8k for weekend . That is the whole story. CSD long ago put this up, don't offer two sizes smaller will sell better. Better profit in the 5/1 dog. Sorry not quote. Only offer one size and one size alone. Keep prices constant. Works every time. Giving two choice which did they pick. Cheap. Stick with one, sausage or dog, and offer another on side.

quote:

Originally posted by Curbside Grill

Zombuswoof WELCOME to the world of events. Relientconcessions can chime in on this one. Lied to is the number one thing to remember about organizers. They can and will at their convenence. That is why I did numbers as I did. Your $2.00 flew out the door but anything higher flopped. Try to stick with one product there. 1/8 dogs and 1/5 sausage only. No two prices on 8/1. Whatever you offer they what cheap. 50k turned into 8k for weekend . That is the whole story. CSD long ago put this up, don't offer two sizes smaller will sell better. Better profit in the 5/1 dog. Sorry not quote. Only offer one size and one size alone. Keep prices constant. Works every time. Giving two choice which did they pick. Cheap. Stick with one, sausage or dog, and offer another on side.

You were dead on. As the weekend went on I kept hoping against hope that you had no idea what you were talking about, but I just couldn't do it! We offered full Vienna Chicago dogs at this one because that is what we will be offering from our downtown cart and this festival is a suburb of our city. We were looking at it as a good marketing opportunity. It had been a while since I had been to a small town festival. I saw a pattern in the types of people. In the morning to early afternoon, lots of families with money. In the late afternoon, the methheads and thugs finally woke up and made their way down. They walked around for hours and I never saw them with anything. Later, the families would be back after hitting the rides and were hungry again. Around 15 minutes prior to closing, the methheads and thugs would start hanging around the food vendors to see if they were going to have any discounts. They swarmed us once we gave in and cut our prices in half. One experienced vendor said that he prefers festivals where there is a charge for entry. That way the people with no money are instantly weeded out and you know that the people inside are serious.

I also learned that the best spot to have is right in the middle of any given row of vendors. We were the first one you passed when you came in or went to the restroom and we heard a lot of "Let's walk down and see what else there is first". I would then see those people walking around with somebody else's food. I KNOW we had the best dogs out there - afterall, who the heck wants an Oscar Meyer when given the choice between that and a Vienna Beef or Sabrett?

Feel your pain. Been there and don't what to go back. Have a small festival that I always do and they Quote vendors 7500 over two days. If you get 4k lucky makes me money. An knowbody wants to fess up. Non paying how do they arrive at those numbers. It's fun sometimes and frustrating other times. Just remember do not offer two different prices on same product. One only and stick to that item.

I agree with Curbside here on different prices, cheap products & cutting your own profits. Just had the same argument with Ms. Reliant about a similar point. She wants to have a breakdown of this, this and this on a breakfast sandwich. All at different prices. Ham, bacon or sausage, egg & cheese. Meat & no egg.......egg & no meat...no cheese...I say have the basic meat, egg & cheese breakfast sandwich and IF they ask for something different, well, we can do it and maybe change the price to a buck less but DON'T advertise it on the menu. Too many choices mean you lose money, one way or another, either through time spent making it or money charged. Plus, I'm not going to even try to compete with the fundraiser/McClampets guy that sells a hamburger for $1.50 that's a fried soybean burger when mine is a 1/3 pound all beef burger that's grilled. MY food will stand on it's own and word of mouth referrals really DO get around.