NYC Hot Dog Wars

From around 1950-the eighties there was a hot dog war in New York City with three main participants.

Nathan's Famous

Chock Full O' Nuts

and

Nedicks.

My father is from Coney Island and his favorite was Nathan's

My mother liked Chock Full O' Nuts and her father liked Nedick's. I prefer Nathan's.

What is your favorite and why do you like it the best. I thought that Nathan's had a livelier fresher flavor than the others.

I hear that there is a Nedick's in Penn Station near the LIRR.

Has Nathan's changed in the last five-10 years? I notice they have all sorts of gluten fillers in them (corn, wheat and the like.)

They just dont taste as good anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by peppertree

I hear that there is a Nedick's in Penn Station near the LIRR.

There was a bunch of publicity when it opened:
[url='http://www.rieserestaurants.com/restaurants.asp?rest_id=1020']Nedick's is back in New York City.[/url]

quote:

Located on the lower level, 8th Avenue side of Penn Station, you can now enjoy Nedick's classic hot dog on a butter toasted bun and the famous Orange Drink. But what makes Nedick's better than ever is its new menu of hot dogs from across the United States, four varieties of fries, 16 toppings, desserts that you won't believe, and a breakfast menu. Check out our sample menu by clicking on the Sample Menu button, below.

[url='http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/WABC_011503_nedicks.html#']Nedick's Hot Dog Stand Opens In Penn Station[/url]

(There's a link on the above page with photos.)

[url='http://www.nynewsday.com/entertainment/dining/nyc-pennsnacks,0,4140691.story']Find Hot Dogs, Pretzels and Pizza at Penn[/url]

[url='http://www.swingstreets.com/eCaffeineJune2003Extras.htm']An Old Dog Comes Home[/url]

I've always like Katz's best: the most snap to their skin.

oohhhh Katz's, lovely dogs!!....also,most street venders....do they still have 'Papaya King's' around?....years ago,great dogs at the 'Berlin Bar(3rd and 86th).....as for the three mentioned in the initial topic, I'll pass

I used to stop at the Nedick's in Grand Central every time I went into the city from Connecticut. I'd take the Banker's Special on the New York, New Haven and Hartford from New Haven. It arrived in Grand Central at 9:30 a.m. I'd immediately head for the Nedick's, grab a hot dog and an orange drink, then be on my way. Later in the day, while heading for the train home I'd stop again for another dog and orange drink. Didn't they used to cook their hot dogs on one of those roller things?

Chock Full O'Nuts has begun converting their QuickKava locations here in New England to their "New York system" concept.
I wonder if hot dogs are going to be added to the menu?
Sabrett's are making inroads here in the supermarkets as well.
For a great hot dog site see; www.hollyeats.com
DaveM

Nedick's is using their old logo. I remember in their last days, they had a "Nedick's NY " logo.

Chock Full O' Nuts. My mother liked a pie (loved it) after her frank.

My grandfather liked the Orange drink at Nedick's.

I love the Nathan's French fries even more than their franks.

Nedicks orange drink. Mmmmmmmmmmm.

I never had a Chock Full O' Nuts dog. Nedick's uses a skinless Shofar brand dog that is skinless and cooked on a roller grill. Nothing special. Nathan's is better. So is Papaya King and Katz's, which both use Sabrett dogs w/casing. The key to getting a good dog at Nathan's is to find one that cooks the dogs long enough. At the Nathan's near me, the dogs are under cooked, and I never liked them. I had one awhile ago at a rest stop on the Jersey Turnpike that was cooked sufficiently, and it was as good a beef hot dog as I've had anywhere. Shortly after, I bought a pack of Nathan's and a pack of Sabrett; both natural casing (which can be hard to come by). I cooked both dogs on my griddle and compared them. I actually preferred the Nathan's. They tasted spicier to me. The Sabrett (8 to a lb size) was a little mushy; I believe the 10 to a lb sold at Papaya King and Gray's are packed tighter and are better for grilling.

I grew up on Long Island where one the first things that we did when we received our driver's license would be to head out to Nathan's in Oceanside. The newer Nathan's that opened in malls can not compare to the Original Nathan's in Coney Island or the one in Oceanside (IMHO). Yes, I miss their fries too!

I also miss the Sabrett "dirty water" hot dogs from street vendors in the city.

As for Nedick's, they were always the last choice for me but I confess to liking their Strawberry Nedick better than Orange Nedick.

When at home, I prefer Hebrew National "Specials" either grilled or microwaved.

Chock Full O' Nuts was my favorite place to get a hot dog when I was a kid. Now days it's usually Papaya King. At the supermarket I'll usually buy Hebrew National or Boar's Head brand.

Papaya King has a website!

www.papayaking.com

I was in NYC last week and tried out Crif Dogs on St. Mark's. Not historical, but damn good. http://www.crifdogs.com

Crif Dogs are good, but a blatant rip-off of Rutt's Hut. One of the owners even admits as much. They use the same special Thumann's dog for deep frying that Rutt's and many other N.J. places such as Hiram's, Libby's, Goffle Grill, and Johnny & Hanges do. Rutt's Hutt is better, because you can get the dogs cooked to different degrees of doneness, such as "in and outer" which is just cooked enough, "ripper" which is cooked until the skin rips apart from the hot oil (these dogs are deep fried) "weller" which is well done, and "cremator" which is black. I prefer the wellers. Rutt's relish is also the best hot dog condiment there is. Unlike any relish I've tried. Well worth a try if you're in the area.

Personally i perfer to not slaughter animals and like veggie dogs the best. I would absolutly love if hot dog stands stared carrying veggie dogs. It would give vegetarians the oppurtunity to get food on the run.

I would frequent Papaya King uptown when I lived in NYC. As I recall, they were "better than filet mignon." Are they still? I have heard about a pricy hot dog place in the West 20s called F & B. Some say it's the best in the city. Anyone know it?

quote:

Originally posted by fueldawl

Personally i perfer to not slaughter animals and like veggie dogs the best. I would absolutly love if hot dog stands stared carrying veggie dogs. It would give vegetarians the oppurtunity to get food on the run.

I don't know what I would do if I were a Vegeterian as far as roadfood is concerned. I guess I would plan on traveling alot to LA and eat lots of fruit, nuts, yogurt and wheat germ!

Grampy,
I've been to F&B twice a couple of years ago. They are not a real N.Y./N.J. style hot dog place, but try to fashion themselves as a European style streetfood joint. They are kind of expensive if I remember, but they do serve beer. Many kinds of dogs, including veggie (yecch!). They even have a salmon dog!. They do serve a Usinger's frank from Wisconsin, but they quickly flash fry it, and it's not the spicy all beef dog, but rather the pork/beef which isn't as good as Thumann's or other German style beef/pork dogs you can get in the city like Schaller & Weber. Okay dogs, but nothing special. Better off at Papaya King, Katz's, or Nathan's. Or Crif's if you like a real deep fried dog. Even if they are a blatant rip-off of Rutt's Hut.

John: Thanks for the tip. Sounds like I should skip it. When I'm in NYC, I usually head to Chinatown for dim sum or out to Queens to a White Castle -- high-profile eats I can't find in my part of Mass. The dogs at Pastrami Queen on Lex looked pretty darned good, but I couldn't tear myself away from the heavenly pastrami.

BAH-you all should give up. Nothing in NYC comes close to a good Chicago Vienna Beef dog.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveM

Chock Full O'Nuts has begun converting their QuickKava locations here in New England to their "New York system" concept.
I wonder if hot dogs are going to be added to the menu?
Sabrett's are making inroads here in the supermarkets as well.
For a great hot dog site see; www.hollyeats.com
DaveM

That is a great site. Now I know what you folks are talkin' about. There's some things you just have to see to understand. How could you possibly describe a Ripper at Rutt's Hut?

quote:

Originally posted by hawkeyejohn

BAH-you all should give up. Nothing in NYC comes close to a good Chicago Vienna Beef dog.

I strongly disagree. This past summer I went to New York to sample an authentic Vienna Frank from Danny Meyer's 11 Madison Hot Dog Cart. This cart is located in Madison Park and serves an authentic Chicago Style hot dog (according to even the Chicago Tribune) with the franks, rolls, and other ingredients shipped in from Chicago.

I had a Chicago style dog, but first I had just a plain dog with some mustard in order to taste the vaunted Vienna frank. In my opinion it is a decent all beef frank, but rather bland compared to New York's Sabrett and Nathan's, and definitely not as good. Plus it is boiled rather than grilled. Grilling, especially on lower heat for a longer period of time brings out the flavor better than boiling/steaming. I suspect that many Chicagoans grew up with this brand, and since it is served at over 80% of the hot dog joints in Chicago, have acquired a taste for it. For them, it is what a hot dog should taste like; similar to many New Yorkers who only frequent the Manhatten street carts and think that a dirty water Sabrett is what a hot dog should taste like. The Vienna frank has a subtle unique spicing that is similar to what I detect in a piece of corned beef.

As for the Chicago style dog, it was pretty much what I expected it to be. I liked the contrast between cold vegetables and hot meat, but for me, the focus should be on the dog itself. There is simply too much stuff on a Chicago Hot Dog. It really is a salad dog. With all that stuff, especially the spicy sport peppers, it would be hard to identify a heartier all beef dog, much less a blander Vienna.

In Chicago, I would prefer a Sinai 48, Best Kosher, or Hebrew National to the Vienna frank. But none of these comes close to a charbroiled, natural casing 5 to a lb Best's (Newark, N.J., not Chicago) dog served at Syd's in Union, N.J.

quote:

Originally posted by John Fox
This past summer I went to New York to sample an authentic Vienna Frank from Danny Meyer's 11 Madison Hot Dog Cart. This cart is located in Madison Park and serves an authentic Chicago Style hot dog (according to even the Chicago Tribune) with the franks, rolls, and other ingredients shipped in from Chicago.

Grilling, especially on lower heat for a longer period of time brings out the flavor better than boiling/steaming.

There is simply too much stuff on a Chicago Hot Dog. It really is a salad dog. With all that stuff, especially the spicy sport peppers, it would be hard to identify a heartier all beef dog, much less a blander Vienna.

In Chicago, I would prefer a Sinai 48, Best Kosher, or Hebrew National to the Vienna frank. But none of these comes close to a charbroiled, natural casing 5 to a lb ( not Chicago) dog served at Syd's in Union, N.J.

Thank you John, for insightful evaluation and comparison.
I'm serving a grilled Hebrew National 1/4 lb Kosher All Beef Polish Sausage on a plain jumbo hot dog bun. I'm paying just under $3.00 /lb at CostCo for 12 pack for $8.99.

To taste this Polish, I eat it naken in the plain hot dog bun. Even putting it into a sesame Hogie roll...is too much bread which dilutes taste. Chopped uncooked onion, stronger mustards, much less hot pepper, easily overwhelms the quality of flavor.

So I'm curious if there is a better dog where increment in improved taste is worth the increment in price....for people who are dressing up their dogs with French mustard at the least.

For starters, is there a website for Best's of Newark, N.J.?

Thank you,
Wild Walker
Walking Wilderness, Wilding edible plants

Also, didn't they use the New England style roll, I think they called them white sided

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hoffman

I used to stop at the Nedick's in Grand Central every time I went into the city from Connecticut. I'd take the Banker's Special on the New York, New Haven and Hartford from New Haven. It arrived in Grand Central at 9:30 a.m. I'd immediately head for the Nedick's, grab a hot dog and an orange drink, then be on my way. Later in the day, while heading for the train home I'd stop again for another dog and orange drink. Didn't they used to cook their hot dogs on one of those roller things?

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Stern

I've always like Katz's best: the most snap to their skin.

I agree !! Plus the (chicken fat fried) french fries to accompnay it at Katz's !!

quote:

Originally posted by WildWalker

quote:

Originally posted by John Fox
This past summer I went to New York to sample an authentic Vienna Frank from Danny Meyer's 11 Madison Hot Dog Cart. This cart is located in Madison Park and serves an authentic Chicago Style hot dog (according to even the Chicago Tribune) with the franks, rolls, and other ingredients shipped in from Chicago.

Grilling, especially on lower heat for a longer period of time brings out the flavor better than boiling/steaming.

There is simply too much stuff on a Chicago Hot Dog. It really is a salad dog. With all that stuff, especially the spicy sport peppers, it would be hard to identify a heartier all beef dog, much less a blander Vienna.

In Chicago, I would prefer a Sinai 48, Best Kosher, or Hebrew National to the Vienna frank. But none of these comes close to a charbroiled, natural casing 5 to a lb ( not Chicago) dog served at Syd's in Union, N.J.

Thank you John, for insightful evaluation and comparison.
I'm serving a grilled Hebrew National 1/4 lb Kosher All Beef Polish Sausage on a plain jumbo hot dog bun. I'm paying just under $3.00 /lb at CostCo for 12 pack for $8.99.

To taste this Polish, I eat it naken in the plain hot dog bun. Even putting it into a sesame Hogie roll...is too much bread which dilutes taste. Chopped uncooked onion, stronger mustards, much less hot pepper, easily overwhelms the quality of flavor.

So I'm curious if there is a better dog where increment in improved taste is worth the increment in price....for people who are dressing up their dogs with French mustard at the least.

For starters, is there a website for Best's of Newark, N.J.?

Thank you,
Wild Walker
Walking Wilderness, Wilding edible plants

It's hard to answer your question since I've never had the Hebrew National Polish Sausage. I have had the quarter pound all beef hot dog, and it is great with just some deli mustard. Around me, the Costco stores serve this dog on a steamed bun (Cassone brand; a little bigger than a normal bun because the dog is so big) and with your choice of sauerkraut, relish, onions, yellow or brown mustard. Personally, I prefer just some deli mustard. I think this kind goes best with an all beef dog. I prefer the yellow mustard with a milder beef and pork dog.

As for a better choice of dog, I would go with one of my 3 favorites. Usinger's, Sabrett, or Best. I don't know if you are planning on sticking with a bigger dog, but all 3 make a quarter pounder. For size, I like the 5 to a lb dog made by Best. It is a little longer than the thicker quarter pounder, so the meat is spread out better. Sometimes the quarter pounders are a little too fat. I happen to think the size of the Best dog is perfect. It has a nice natural casing with the right amount of resistance without being too tough. This dog is served at Syd's in Jersey. I like the cooking method; simmerred in water (not boiled) then finished off on the grill. Best has a website, bestprovision.com.

To John Fox:


Vienna Beef makes two styles of encased meats: skinless and natural skin. Most Chicago dog stands boil their dogs because it's faster, simpler, and cleaner. Time is important when serving hundreds of dogs an hour. Drop the dogs into boiling water and wait for them to float. When a dog is heated to temperature in it's skin, it retains all it's natural flavoring and juiciness. Steaming produces the same result as boiling, but requires more time. Steaming and boiling produces a juicy, not greasy product. In Chicago, Viennas are never cooked on a roller grill and it's a rarety to find them flat grilled. However, there are stands that char grill which requires more time and a possible sur charge. In our business, we boil dogs and steam buns. Time is money and boiling produces a consistently great tasting dog.

I've never eaten at Danny Meyer's. He's probably serving a traditional Vienna hot dog. In Chicago, the Vienna Maxwell Street Polish is king. It's made from Vienna's own blend of lean, protein rich, domestic beef and sweet brisket that have been smoked for their famous taste and consistency and prepared without a single unnatural additive or undeserved compliment. I serve the quarter pound skinless Polish on a steamed S.Rosen poppy seed bun. The difference between the traditional dog and the Polish is quite distinctive. I prefer mine with yellow mustard, neon green relish, and onions. Sometimes, I'll take a kosher dill on the side. This is not a salad!

I'll be visiting NYC during the week of Easter and intend to visit Danny Meyers, Nathans, Papaya King, and Gray's Papaya to enjoy their food.

chicagostyledog,

I would check first before going to Danny Meyers; I think that they're only open during the summer. They serve a skinless Vienna frank, rather than one with the casing which I prefer. Also, they serve theirs with a lot of lettuce like Byron's; hence the salad designation. I know some places, most notably Gene and Judes, puts a minimum amount of ingredients on the dog. I prefer just a spicy brown deli style mustard. I believe the focus should be on the dog itself. For me at least, I believe a Chicago dog would be an aquired taste. I just don't like all the stuff on the dog. Even just the sports peppers are too spicy for my taste and take away from the enjoyment of the dog. When I went to Danny Meyers, I had the Chicago dog (minus onions) and just a plain, skinless Vienna dog with mustard. I enjoyed the dog with mustard more.

As to cooking methods, I hear you on the quickness and convenience of boiling/simmering. Almost all of the streetcarts in the N.Y./N.J. area do it this way. And the dogs are fine. In fact, Usinger's, which makes one of the best, if not THE best all beef dog, suggests that you heat their dogs in water rather than grill them so that the skin doesn't break, thereby releasing the flavorfull juices. Many times when I'm home at night and desire a dog but don't feel like setting up my griddle, I just drop the dogs in the water. That said, I prefer my dogs to be cooked in water, then finished off on the grill or griddle. Cooking this way just imparts a wider range of flavors and textures. If you are going to New York, a great way to experience the difference in cooking methods would be to have a boiled Sabrett from a street vendor, followed by a dog from either Papaya King or Gray's. Both use 10 to a lb Sabrett's that they slow cook on the griddle. Many people knock the "dirty water dogs" sold on the streets of N.Y., but the key to getting a good one is to get one that is hot and fresh and hasn't been laying in water all day. In Jersey, almost all carts serve them this way. You mentione that overcooking produces an inconsistent product. Well, the key is to cook them just right. This comes with experience. A dog served at Syd's is a tasty, high quality Best brand dog simmerred in water, than quickly finished off on a grill. The result is a flavorful, slightly charred, delicius dog. Nathan's and Papaya King are slow cooked on the griddle using low heat resulting in a spcy dog with a little grease.

I say grilling is better only because I prefer the taste that it imparts. There are many people like yourself that prefer boiling. The people at Usinger's, as I mentioned. Also David Rosengarten prefers his dogs cooked in water. Lobels of N.Y. is a company well known for their meat. One of the best mail order sources of beef in the U.S. They have hot dogs made specially for them by an 80 year old Austrian butcher. They sell for $14.95 a pound and came in tied for first in the New York/Chicago style beef dog category. Mr. Lobel suggests that you cook these dogs by bringing water to a boil, turning of the gas and letting them simmer. He too, suggests that you don't grill them. So I know there are 2 ways to look at this. Taste being subjective, I try everything. But I know what I like.

Never had a Polish, but since I prefer the spicier beef dogs, I'm sure I would love them. Thinking of sending away for some. Let us know what you think of the N.Y. dogs.

John, at home I prefer a Vienna natural skin 5 to 1 Polish heavily char grilled with Merkt's cheddar cheese and well done grilled onions. Poochie's in Skokie serves the identical dog. When dining out I use yellow mustard, neon greeen relish, and onions. I can't handle the heat of sport peppers and if I eat tomato or pickle, it has to be on the side, so I can enjoy the dog. The next dogs I'll purchase for my personal dining will be the Usinger all beef natural skin and the new Vienna's filled with Sargento cheddar cheese. The stand that features a dog covered by a salad, besides Byron's, is Tasty Pup(nothing I'd ever eat, but my friend's a pet rabbit keeps begging to go there). Happy eating!