Order more get LESS

This is an exchange from another forum, and it made me mad as hell. I wondered how all of you felt about the topic
Jack

First Poster
I had a customer at my pizza place that I wanted to roll his butt through the parking lot.

On a medium 12" pizza we put 24 pepperoni slices with 1-2 toppings, 20 with 3-5 toppings and 16 with 5+ toppings.

When you make a pizza do you reduce the quantity of individual toppings as the number of toppings increase?

Just curious

2nd Poster
Yes
1. You are going to run out of floor space on the pizza
2. You are going to mess up the bake times as the additional ingredients create a "blanket" which affects how long it will take to cook it.

Now, having said that, I would make the counts closer so if someone gets a medium pepperoni and a medium "garbage" pizza, the count doesn't look dramatically different.


3rd Poster
At the Take and Bake where I used to work when we made only pepperoni a medium came with about 24 pepperoni. The owner came to me and said people were complaining because we had to much pepperoni.....huh.........From then on 12 count them 12 pieces of pepperoni per medium pizza! And she wondered why she lost the business...........That and day's old pizza skins and sandwiches with day's old product and well I could go on and on and I TRIED to help her but being a peon...............................The more product the less product does that make sense it's freaking' early and tomorrow starts a week and a day off............. I love my job.............


4th Poster
I've never pondered this question but it seems logical that you would cut back slightly (as you do) when more toppings are added.Did you actually have a guy complain about this? Some people should never go out in public.


I wrote:
I pay extra and get LESS.
Oh man now I know why I feel like I get screwed every time I order a Pizza.What’s with the, order extra get less that’s backwards. When I order a Pizza I ask for the following:
Double Sausage
Double Hamburger
Double Ham
Mushrooms
Green Peppers
Onions
Double Cheese.

But 9 out of 10 times I don’t get near what I think I should get on my pie. I have a friend that owns a place here in Springfield that I frequent called Top Cats and he serves very good Pizza, and great horseshoes.

Just this week I ordered a Pizza as per above and it was outstanding, no make that the best Pizza I have ever had.

But the regular cook wasn’t in the kitchen and another friend that tends bar at Top Cat’s went back into the kitchen and explained to the staff that I wanted what I ordered and I was paying for it and it better be on the pie when it came out of the kitchen.

It took much longer than usual because of the extra goodies but I don’t mind that. It was great must have weighed 5 Lbs.

Here’s my point you sell pizza and you have on your menu options for your pizza including a price point for EXTRA ingredients. But when I order and pay more for the extras I get less. What the heck is that all about?

I hope you pizza restaurant owners don’t come to my place and order a slab of ribs (which come with no sides) and order three sides because I’m going to charge extra for the sides and cut back from the original 13 bones in the slab to 10.

How do you like them apples?

Jack
PS. YES I’m hot having now figured out why I get screwed twice every time I order Pizza. I pay extra and get LESS. Folks that sounds like the United States Government !!!!!!!

PPS And Beth you call it a "garbage" pizza" well it's NOT "garbage" pizza" if that's what I want on my pizza

The Doctor of BBQ
www.DrofBBQ.com
Jack@DrofBBQ.com

I don't think your ribs analogy relates well to the pizza topic. If I order ribs and sides, the sides aren't put ON the ribs, so the amount of sides I order should have no bearing on the ribs. Maybe if the ribs/sides were sold on the basis of fitting in a particular container it would make sense. With the pizza it is very different. You can only put so much on a pizza before it becomes an unmanageable mess. Putting a bit less of each topping when you order a lot of them makes sense to me.

Jack

THANK YOU!!!

I was told by our local chain junk pizza place I was nuts for telling them they were putting less toppings on when I ordered extra.

I counted them, I knew i was getting shorted.

If I order them and pay for them I want them on there. If my pizza weighs 5 pounds and takes a few minutes more in the oven then DO IT!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Bad
I don't think your ribs analogy relates well to the pizza topic.You can only put so much on a pizza before it becomes an unmanageable mess. Putting a bit less of each topping when you order a lot of them makes sense to me.

Tony my analogy may not be the best BUT Your reply makes no sense (with all due respect) to me. What would cause a Pizza to become an unmanageable mess, or how is it an unmanageable mess? If I order it and I pay for it how is it ok to short me? I just don't understand this mindset. Yes it takes longer to bake, yes it's a ton of meat and other goodies but if the restaurant isn't willing to put all of those ingredients on my pie don't put them on the menu. If I want a 5 lb pie or a one-ton pie as long as I can pay and pay extra what the heck take my money and laugh all the way to the bank. When I order a pizza around here like I want, they usually charge me around $20.00. If I pay twenty dollars I expect to get what I pay for. If I find I don’t get all the goodies I just don’t go back.
Jack

Here's the deal as far as I'm concerned: If someone is going to cut down on the amount of a particular topping for which I am paying the full price because I also order another topping, for which I am paying full price, that someone is not going to be doing business with me -- and, I'll likely report them to the consumer affairs division of the Ohio Attorney General's office for using bait-and-switch tactics.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr of BBQ

Tony my analogy may not be the best BUT Your reply makes no sense (with all due respect) to me. What would cause a Pizza to become an unmanageable mess, or how is it an unmanageable mess? If I order it and I pay for it how is it ok to short me? I just don't understand this mindset. Yes it takes longer to bake, yes it's a ton of meat and other goodies but if the restaurant isn't willing to put all of those ingredients on my pie don't put them on the menu. If I want a 5 lb pie or a one-ton pie as long as I can pay and pay extra what the heck take my money and laugh all the way to the bank. When I order a pizza around here like I want, they usually charge me around $20.00. If I pay twenty dollars I expect to get what I pay for. If I find I don’t get all the goodies I just don’t go back.
Jack

I guess my vision of the pie you seem to want...with full amounts of 6 toppings and extra cheese...would be a pie with a very thick, heavy layer of toppings. I imagine a very thick, hard to eat (at least by hand), soggy crusted pie. Sounds like more of a casserole than a pizza!

That may be what you want, and if so, I guess I get your complaint, but it certainly isn't something I would want. I am guessing a messy, soggy pie WITH all the ingredients would get more complaints than getting shorted a couple of pepperoni slices, but maybe I am wrong. I can't even imagine how a pie like the one you order would be cut or fit in a delivery box!

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Bad.with full amounts of 6 toppings and extra cheese...would be a pie with a very thick, heavy layer of toppings, would be something that would probably result in a very thick, hard to eat (at least by hand), soggy crusted pie. Sounds like more of a casserole than a pizza!
That may be what you want, and if so, I get your complaint, but it certainly isn't something I would want. I am guessing a messy, soggy pie WITH all the ingredients would get more complaints than getting shorted a couple of pepperoni slices, but maybe I am wrong. I can't even imagine how a pie like the one you order would be cut or fit in a delivery box!

Well my friend I promise you they fit quite nicely. And they’re not piled as high as you might think. Especially when they are cheating you. LOL

But from what I’m reading into this is that this is an industry (Pizza Companies) common practice. And it sucks. I can’t think of any other food item that you could do this with but I called our local food editor and she mumbled well no one is going to be interested in this and hung up.

Most Pizza joints wouldn’t admit to it but a sure fire way to prove it’s happening would be to weight the Pizza.

Sorry I’m so fired up on this topic but it just makes me crazy LMAO

Jack

quote:

Originally posted by Dr of BBQ

Most Pizza joints wouldn’t admit to it but a sure fire way to prove it’s happening would be to weight the Pizza.

Sorry I’m so fired up on this topic but it just makes me crazy LMAO

Jack

No one likes to feel cheated, and I see that is the way you feel...so I get the fired up thing. I guess I just always assumed they would cut back a bit as was described just to keep things from getting too big and heavy. It is all a matter of what you are expecting. I never order toppings on my pizza, so maybe I just don't get the whole thing!

quote:

Originally posted by Dr of BBQ

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Bad
I don't think your ribs analogy relates well to the pizza topic.You can only put so much on a pizza before it becomes an unmanageable mess. Putting a bit less of each topping when you order a lot of them makes sense to me.

Tony my analogy may not be the best BUT Your reply makes no sense (with all due respect) to me. What would cause a Pizza to become an unmanageable mess, or how is it an unmanageable mess? If I order it and I pay for it how is it ok to short me? I just don't understand this mindset. Yes it takes longer to bake, yes it's a ton of meat and other goodies but if the restaurant isn't willing to put all of those ingredients on my pie don't put them on the menu. If I want a 5 lb pie or a one-ton pie as long as I can pay and pay extra what the heck take my money and laugh all the way to the bank. When I order a pizza around here like I want, they usually charge me around $20.00. If I pay twenty dollars I expect to get what I pay for. If I find I don’t get all the goodies I just don’t go back.
Jack

How much do you think you're being cheated out of on your $20.00 investment?

My pet peeve is when you order a large pizza and extras are $2.50 each. OK for sausage and pepperoni but ONIONS TOO? Unless they flew them in from Walla Walla or Maui, onions on a pizza don't deserve the same price as a more costly ingredient.
Dr Q, I'm with you on this all the way and I love the rib and sides analogy.

quote:

Originally posted by rjbHow much do you think you're being cheated out of on your $20.00 investment?

I don't know how to answer that because on the last pie I ordered I got what I paid for. But it’s simply a mater of getting what I ordered and what I paid for. If you went to KFC and bought a whole chicken you’d expect to get two legs, thighs, breast, backs, and wings. But if you only got one leg you got cheated. How much did you get cheated? That’s semantics (the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development).

It’s not about the money it’s about the facts, including, the order, the implication on the menu that you may order extra ingredients for a certain sum of money and the customers expectation that once an agreement is reached (placing the order) the waitress or waiter taking the order and the item (Pizza Pie) being served a contract has been made.

I’ll uphold up my end of the contract to pay your requested fee. I expect you to uphold up your end to deliver to me in some timely manner a pizza pie with Double Sausage, Double Hamburger, Double Ham, Mushrooms, Green Peppers, Onions, and Double Cheese.

There should be no confusion on the terms of the contract. It’s so simple everyone can understand what was ordered so why aren’t the customers getting what they ordered, and are willing to pay for?

The menu said” each additional item ordered is $1.50. It does not say “We will skimp on the original amounts normally applied to your Pizza if you are willing to purchase extra ingredients”.

Now if that’s what your going to do put it on the menu and if I’m so stupid as to order “Double Anything” then shame on me.

It all seems pretty simple to me
Jack

i ve made pizza for years and heres how we charge. it cost 1.50 for each additional topping but when you get past 3 toppings its considered a "special" so you can have 10 toppings for the same price as 3 or more!! of course there is only so much room on the pie for toppings so of course youll get less of each. As for pepperoni, you always put it on first because it adheres to the cheese and wont shrivel up and believe me your not getting cheated on the first 3 toppings i mean of course there will slightly more green peppers for example on a pie with just green peppers than on a pie with pepperoni, sausage, onions, and peppers!! I mean quality of product is considered rather than just piling on toppings!! thats just how we do it in central jersy and i know QUITE a few fellow pizzeria owners that do it the same way.

Sorry for the double post but by the way....

I share a passion for food with most of the people on this site. Im in business to want people to COME BACK to my store. Im not in business because i rip people off. My philosophy is there are A hundred other places to eat so if you walk out of my store you can go anywhere else. I understand your opinions, But if you feel like your getting ripped off find a BETTER place. I know that while value is always good, if my meal is excellent and satisfying im not gonna bicker over a couple of pieces of pepperoni and ill pay for quality!!

quote:

Originally posted by dannybotz

i ve made pizza for years of course there is only so much room on the pie for toppings so of course youll get less of each. I mean quality of product is considered rather than just piling on toppings!!

Danny,
What's wrong with toppings over lapping or even being on top of each other? I mean we are baking this thing at what 350 ….400 hundred degrees, it’s surely not a fear the ingredients won’t get cooked. Stack the stuff up, let the ingredients all just meld into each other. Every time you take a bite you taste everything.

Let me ask you this: Do you really put double ingredients on when asked to do so? If not why not?
Jack

quote:

Originally posted by Dr of BBQ

I don't know how to answer that because on the last pie I ordered I got what I paid for. But it’s simply a mater of getting what I ordered and what I paid for. If you went to KFC and bought a whole chicken you’d expect to get two legs, thighs, breast, backs, and wings. But if you only got one leg you got cheated. How much did you get cheated? That’s semantics (the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development).

Like your rib analogy, you are comparing apples and oranges. Not getting a "whole chicken" when buying a whole chicken isn't an issue of semantics...it is not getting what you paid for. The issue of how much topping is the right amount is far more arbitrary. Like many things in the food industry, who ever is in charge gives you what they feel is appropriate and makes the most sense from a taste, practical, and economic standpoint. It seems logical to me that there will be times when presenting an appetizing, easily handled food item might call for lesser amounts of each ingredient when there is a request for many different toppings. If I got a pizza with three pieces of pepperoni I'd feel cheated, if I got 20 instead of 24 I'd say close enough. I must admit that I am surprised this issue is so upsetting to some.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr of BBQ

quote:

Originally posted by dannybotz

i ve made pizza for years of course there is only so much room on the pie for toppings so of course youll get less of each. I mean quality of product is considered rather than just piling on toppings!!

Danny,
What's wrong with toppings over lapping or even being on top of each other? I mean we are baking this thing at what 350 ….400 hundred degrees, it’s surely not a fear the ingredients won’t get cooked. Stack the stuff up, let the ingredients all just meld into each other. Every time you take a bite you taste everything.

Let me ask you this: Do you really put double ingredients on when asked to do so? If not why not?
Jack

if some one askes for double of anything , they certainly will get double. I admit that i dont count pieces of pepperoni but when your slammed and you have 20 pies to get in the oven you dont have time. I will say this though nobody will go hungry we do pile it on if someone asks. if a customer askes specifically for double you better put on double because the customer asked for it and they are expecting it. he problem is that not enough Owners are spending time in there businesses probably and leaveing it up to their managers and pizza guys to make decisions. it really is a management problem!

quote:

Originally posted by dannybotz

Im in business to want people to COME BACK to my store. Im not in business because i rip people off. But if you feel like your getting ripped off find a BETTER place.

Danny,
I didn’t say or infer your ripping off your customers. This wasn’t written about you or your restaurant and if somehow you were made to feel that way I apologize. However from what I’m reading it’s an industry standard. A standard that would not be acceptable in any other type of restaurant business. I have gone from one Pizza Restaurant to another in this town and in other cities around the country and ordered pizza always the same way, and I always end up with the same results. If I ever get tired of the BBQ business Pizza would be my next venture.
Jack

quote:

Originally posted by Dr of BBQ

quote:

Originally posted by dannybotz

Im in business to want people to COME BACK to my store. Im not in business because i rip people off. But if you feel like your getting ripped off find a BETTER place.

Danny,
I didn’t say or infer your ripping off your customers. This wasn’t written about you or your restaurant and if somehow you were made to feel that way I apologize. However from what I’m reading it’s an industry standard. A standard that would not be acceptable in any other type of restaurant business. I have gone from one Pizza Restaurant to another in this town and in other cities around the country and ordered pizza always the same way, and I always end up with the same results. If I ever get tired of the BBQ business Pizza would be my next venture.
Jack

hope i didnt sound like i took it personally!! actually it saddens me that the indusry has so many negative aspects or standards. it really is just dumb that an owner wouldnt give a person exactly what they want. I tell you this, if you ask specifically for anything at least in my store im going to go out of my way to do it. its just good business. Thats how you make money. By customers coming back and word of mouth . uh kind of like the whole premise of Roadfood!!!!haha thats why so so so so many pizza jionts open and close. because the owners are concerned with the bottom line before anything else and that just dont work!

Domino's (pizza) wise, is a good example of an offender in this area. Per corporate policy, the "count" / "quantity" of toppings are reduced the more toppings per pizza ordered. Since most pizza chains do use chain ovens, the production line is upset when extra items (not reduced) are requested, as said pizza naturally takes longer to cook.

quote:

Originally posted by MilwFoodlovers

My pet peeve is when you order a large pizza and extras are $2.50 each. OK for sausage and pepperoni but ONIONS TOO? Unless they flew them in from Walla Walla or Maui, onions on a pizza don't deserve the same price as a more costly ingredient.

Mike, I speak to this topic with great authority having worked at a pizza place for more than 30 years. Those $2.50 onions are offsetting the higher price of the sausage and pepperoni, preventing them from going for $4.50.

You can believe it or don't, but I'm giving it to you straight. Promise.

Buddy

@ $2.50 per topping my favorite pizza would cost almost $50.00. Get real.

Buddy,
A good quality Italian sausage goes for 6 to a lb. @ $3.50/lb retail or less. I agree that I wouldn't pay $4.50 for a link (1/4 to 1/6 lb) which I believe is about the amount that goes on a pizza. Ned's, a popular local chain, does not charge for onions or green peppers.

This used to p*ss me off ROYALLY!!! If I'm being charged extra for adding an ingredient, then I figure I'm getting cheated if they reduce the amount. Over the years, I've learned to not buy from places who don't engage in fair practice.

I fully understand that loading a pizza with tons of stuff makes it more difficult to bake, but they should either explain that to the customer (giving full portions and letting the customer accept the consequences), or make a great pie with appropriate amounts of toppings and NOT CHARGE EXORBITANT EXTRA PRICES.

quote:

Originally posted by Adjudicator

@ $2.50 per topping my favorite pizza would cost almost $50.00. Get real.

Assuming the plain pizza is $15...a $50 pizza would mean 14 toppings! Are there 14 toppings? You guys all put a LOT of stuff on your pies!

2X cheese, 2X pepperoni, 2X sausage, ham, 2X onions, 2X bananna peppers, pineapple, jalepenos, black olives, AND extra sauce. OK. Technically that's only 13 toppings...

Mike and all others who are appalled over the idea of a $2.50 extra ingredient, bear in mind I was using the $2.50 figure only because you used it in your post. The only pizza we serve where we charge $2.50 for an extra ingredient is an XXL, an 18", thick crust pizza that could easily serve six people.

As regards the initial gripe of the Dr. of BBQ, we do not lessen the quantity of each individual ingredient as the total quantity of ingredients goes up. This does however effect the way the pizza cooks. In fact if you have enough stuff piled on top of that pizza you will end up with a very soggy crust.

All those veggies render a whole lot of water which, even at a baking temp of 650 degrees, will not fully evaporate in the time it takes a pizza to cook. If you leave the pie in the oven long enough to properly cook the crust on the bottom, the topmost ingredients will burn.

Buddy

I think a discussion similar to this came up in the Hot Dogs forum about the new Papaya King in Clifton, NJ. A poster reported paying a ridiculous amount of money for a few franks, because every topping, even the first helping of sauerkraut, was counted as an extra topping. There was no way that poster could have received a full serving of every topping, because they would have fallen off the frank before it was handed to him.

If you are a person who likes more than two toppings on your pizza, I have a few suggestions. First, see if they offer a pizza with a cutesy name on it that just happens to have what you are looking on it, or close. The Shakeys in Delaware used to do this. The price was always lower than if ordering a cheese pie, then asking for the toppings you wanted. Last time I looked, Pizza Hut had some of these offerings. Many joints offer a "Supreme" pizza at a package price.

One time on business, a friend and I, after having consumed a few malt-based beverages, decided to try gaming the kids working at a chain pizza joint. We walked in and asked what the price would be for a pizza with 5 toppings. After getting the 5X price, we started haggling with them. Since it was a chain joint, we told them we knew how much of each topping they put on a one topping pie. We told them that if they put a full serving of all five toppings on the pie, it wouldn't bake properly. We asked them if they could give us a reduced price, if they proportionately reduced the number of each topping. We haggled with them like trying to haggle a jeweler down on the price of a necklace, but they wouldn't budge. After wasting their time, we told them to just put pepperoni on the pie!

I agree with the Doctor that the "Price per additional topping X number of additional toppings = the amount we are going to rape you for" pricing is a rip. We all know pizza joints are going to proportionately reduce toppings to keep from messing up the production line or to get the thing to bake properly, unless you read them the riot act. Maybe if more people tried haggling with the pizza joints, they would eventually give a quantity discount.

I worked the line at Pizza Hut in high school, and there was a specific chart with measurements of amounts for each topping for a specified number of toppings a pizza. And "specialty" pizzas with multiple toppings had way less per topping than a comparable pizza ordered as "give me a pepperoni, pork, mushroom, olive, and green pepper pizza" as opposed to "give me a Supreme Pizza". And I was told even then that on those pass-through ovens, all pizzas have to bake for the same amount of time, so overloading the pizza with multiple toppings makes the crust gummy and doesn't cook the toppings adequately. I've discovered the same thing when cooking pizza in my home kitchen, and my oven doesn't get to those sort of temperatures.
And in old-style pizzerias, where they cook the pizza directly on the oven floor, I would imagine overtopped pizzas would make a tremendous mess when they stick to the oven from all that topping.
I guess there's no real answer except get yourself a lawyer and sue for breach of oral contract or false advertising.

In the FWIW department, I once had a girl friend that loved "raw" green peppers but thought them bitter if cooked. She would ask that the peppers be put on after they came out of the oven. The crunchy sweetness is something I still enjoy today and I'll bet I get more of them this way then if I ordered them the usual way.

quote:

And in old-style pizzerias, where they cook the pizza directly on the oven floor, I would imagine overtopped pizzas would make a tremendous mess when they stick to the oven from all that topping.

To all of that think you can’t cook a Pizza with double ingredients or even triple ingredients on it are full of hot air. If your using a standard pizza oven it can be done very easily. I’m not familiar with the new chain drive ovens but the local guys have no problem doing this every night.

Night before last I met with 6 friends that get together every month or so and let them read the printed version of the topic at hand. One of those individuals was Rich the owner of Top Cats and the other was a friend that owns the local Antonio’s franchise with 8 locations in Springfield. Both read the forum post on this matter and both agreed that if an employee shorted a customer’s toppings because they had ordered extra toppings that employee would be fired. Both agreed it dose in fact take extra time in the oven to cook a loaded pizza and more attention from the kitchen staff but they had never had one that was raw in the middle. By the way Top Cats serves pretty big chucks of meat on their pizzas and the local Antonio’s franchise uses those little tinny bits and pieces like Pizza Hut.

Furthermore at whatever price you charge for onions and other vegetables you make up what ever may be shorted profit wise in meat toppings.

Someone in the Foodservice forum wrote on this topic “We make a thick pizza because we put larger portions of vegetables on the pizza and reasonable amount of meat. When you order "double" toppings that is what you receive for that size pizza with that number of toppings”.

Let me address this: First from reading the above you evidently load your pizzas with extra vegetables, which is not done here in Springfield. Nor have I ever eaten a pizza anywhere else that had extra vegetables. But here in Springfield you find very little deep-dish pizzas. Most are a very thin crust that has been a hallmark in Springfield from the early 50s when (our first Pizza Restaurant) Gabatoni’s opened. Two years later Bernie & Betty’s opened with the same thin crust and in fact was opened by two former employees from Gabatoni’s. Both are open and thriving to this day.

As I said using a standard pizza oven it can be done very easily, and most people in Springfield order lots of toppings on their pie. I have had pie here that was 1 ½ thick with toppings and you do it the same way you cook anything that is thick, by moving it around in the oven. Anyone that EVER used even a flattop will tell you in a heartbeat where the hottest spot is and just as quickly where the coolest area is so it’s not a problem. You just have to mind the pie and the oven unlike most of the people in kitchens today that just go through the motions and don’t know why they do what they do. I stopped back into Top Cat’s today to meet a friend and walked into the kitchen and shared the content of this forum (with the cook the cooked my last pizza) in a printed version he read it and laughed. Then he said send these people to me I’ll teach them how to make a great big extra thick pie.
Jack@DrofBBQ.com
In fact I'll make it a point to post some pictures next week of the entire process.