Organic/free range/whatever

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V960
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2005/12/15 15:40:45 (permalink)

Organic/free range/whatever

Does anyone go for this stuff?

I raise free range chickens, ducks and turkeys which have a multitude of restrictions in NC. Selling eggs has become a major hassle.

Just a question?
#1

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    Scorereader
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/15 15:47:38 (permalink)
    I like getting free range meats. I usually do not concern myself with term "organic" as the laws of what makes something "organic" do not really go far enough to separate truely organic foods from non-organic.
    But free range is pretty clear, and the taste, IMO, is better.

    We had friends in NC who raised chickens. Once, while they were on vacation, my wife agreed to feed the chicken. Which turned out to be a great deal, because, I'm fairly certain we didn't buy eggs for a long time after that.

    I've heard the laws have been making it harder. In fact, they left the country for work and upon their return, I don't think they have chickens anymore due to all the hassles.



    #2
    efuery
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/15 15:48:38 (permalink)
    Latest research indicates a growing interest in organic foods by consumers. Currently demand is larger than supply as illustrated by the Bush Administrations move to weaken organic food standards (mainly for milk) to boost the supply so that big box retailers like Wal-mart can get in on the action.

    read more here:

    http://www.organicconsumers.org/sos/weaken102705.cfm
    #3
    tmiles
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/15 16:18:45 (permalink)
    The only thing that I raise now is sheep. They are all sold wholesale via a co-op, so I don't run into retail problems. Several people that I know sell eggs from the house without regulatory problems. Theft has been an issue, and one self serv guy recently stopped selling eggs because of it. I stopped making cider when it had to be pasturized, and any "processing" now requires a permit. Example: I can sell fruits and vegetables, but I can't sell salad, an apple pie, or the afore mentioned cider without a permit and a commercial kitchen. Cheese can be made from raw milk, but only if the cheese ages long enough. IMO the regulations that have been passed over the last 50 years have done more good than bad, but feel free to disagree.

    On the "organic" question, IMO, the jury is still out. It took years to pass the regulations that we have, but they don't really work. To joke about a famous phrase, I can not define organic, but I know it when I see it......

    Organic eggs, IMO, should not come from a caged chicken, but in some cases they do........the chicken only gets organic feed, and no drugs if she gets sick.

    My sheep are not legally organic. They eat free range pasture, and non medicated grain, but I do vaccinate. I have not had a sick sheep in years, but when I do, I will not hesitate to use an antibiotic. To do otherwise is, IMO, cruel.
    #4
    rjb
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/15 16:28:34 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by tmiles

    The only thing that I raise now is sheep. They are all sold wholesale via a co-op, so I don't run into retail problems. Several people that I know sell eggs from the house without regulatory problems. Theft has been an issue, and one self serv guy recently stopped selling eggs because of it. I stopped making cider when it had to be pasturized, and any "processing" now requires a permit. Example: I can sell fruits and vegetables, but I can't sell salad, an apple pie, or the afore mentioned cider without a permit and a commercial kitchen. Cheese can be made from raw milk, but only if the cheese ages long enough. IMO the regulations that have been passed over the last 50 years have done more good than bad, but feel free to disagree.

    On the "organic" question, IMO, the jury is still out. It took years to pass the regulations that we have, but they don't really work. To joke about a famous phrase, I can not define organic, but I know it when I see it......

    Organic eggs, IMO, should not come from a caged chicken, but in some cases they do........the chicken only gets organic feed, and no drugs if she gets sick.

    My sheep are not legally organic. They eat free range pasture, and non medicated grain, but I do vaccinate. I have not had a sick sheep in years, but when I do, I will not hesitate to use an antibiotic. To do otherwise is, IMO, cruel.


    What breed do you raise? And I assume this is a meat operation, not wool?
    #5
    Bushie
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/15 23:46:59 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by V960

    Does anyone go for this stuff?

    As much as possible, I try to buy from my local farms. Eggs, milk, beef, lamb, and chicken come from farms within 30 miles from my house, and I've developed friendships with these farmers. Veggies and fruits are abundant from local farmers at the markets, and again, I try to buy exclusively from them.

    I do that to get fresh stuff, but also to support them so they can continue to produce great healthy food.

    Many of the veggie farms are "certified organic", but none of the meat and egg places are. (They are, however, all "free-range".) They all tell me that to become certified would actually result in a decrease in the quality they now offer, not to mention the much higher expense and extra hassle.

    One more example of how limited government is better...

    I'm encouraged by the fact that these small farms are becoming more viable. Still have a long way to go, but the "buy local" idea is really catching on all across the country from what I'm reading. It's like a movement is taking hold to get away from mass-produced and mass-distributed food, and to quote Martha, "It's a good thing."
    #6
    Jimeats
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 06:59:00 (permalink)
    It really ruffles my feathers about all this pasturization and other standards that have come along. It seems corprate America is intentionaly trying to drive out the little guy If we can't buy him out drive him out. I use to love farm fresh cider particularly when it was just starting to turn a little on the bubbly side. Also farm fresh milk almost impossible to get but I do have a source. Next thing probably to come is they will tell us homemade bread is no good because of hight bactereia count or something or other. Dose anyone know if Lodge cookware is a publicly traded company? Chow Jim
    #7
    Sundancer7
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 07:51:24 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Jimeats

    It really ruffles my feathers about all this pasturization and other standards that have come along. It seems corprate America is intentionaly trying to drive out the little guy If we can't buy him out drive him out. I use to love farm fresh cider particularly when it was just starting to turn a little on the bubbly side. Also farm fresh milk almost impossible to get but I do have a source. Next thing probably to come is they will tell us homemade bread is no good because of hight bactereia count or something or other. Dose anyone know if Lodge cookware is a publicly traded company? Chow Jim


    Lodge is still a family owned company in South Pittsburg. I visited their outlet there a few weeks ago. It is located in front of their factory. Their cookware is not cheap but it is excellent. Mamaw Smith has one that she has had for better than 60 years.

    I was burning some brush on the beach last winter from all the brush that drifts in each year. Mamaw Smith brought her huge frying pan down and put it in the fire for about a hour. Cleaned it and reseasoned it and it works like a charm.

    http://www.lodgemfg.com/history.asp

    Paul E. Smith
    Knoxville, TN
    #8
    tmiles
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 09:30:11 (permalink)
    [id=quote font="arial, helvetica"]quote: Originally posted by rjb

    [id=quote font="arial, helvetica"]quote: Originally posted by tmiles

    The only thing that I raise now is sheep. They are all sold wholesale via a co-op, so I don't run into retail problems. Several people that I know sell eggs from the house without regulatory problems. Theft has been an issue, and one self serv guy recently stopped selling eggs because of it. I stopped making cider when it had to be pasturized, and any "processing" now requires a permit. Example: I can sell fruits and vegetables, but I can't sell salad, an apple pie, or the afore mentioned cider without a permit and a commercial kitchen. Cheese can be made from raw milk, but only if the cheese ages long enough. IMO the regulations that have been passed over the last 50 years have done more good than bad, but feel free to disagree.

    On the "organic" question, IMO, the jury is still out. It took years to pass the regulations that we have, but they don't really work. To joke about a famous phrase, I can not define organic, but I know it when I see it......

    Organic eggs, IMO, should not come from a caged chicken, but in some cases they do........the chicken only gets organic feed, and no drugs if she gets sick.

    My sheep are not legally organic. They eat free range pasture, and non medicated grain, but I do vaccinate. I have not had a sick sheep in years, but when I do, I will not hesitate to use an antibiotic. To do otherwise is, IMO, cruel.



    What breed do you raise? And I assume this is a meat operation, not wool?


    Like most sheep in this country, mine are for meat and wool. My sheep are mostly crossbreeds, but I use purebred rams. Today I have a Hampshire ram and a Southdown ram. In the past, I have used Dorset and Romney. By using 2 rams of different breeds, I can tell which one is doing his job. A little over a year ago, I bought the 2 new rams. The Southdown was pushed around by the much larger Hampshire. It seemed that the poor little Southdown never got very close to the girls. The girls must have liked the Southdown better, though, because most of the lambs last spring looked a lot like him. There is a little more info on my sheep at www.millburytravel.vacation.com . You can go there and click on "sheep". I will be updating the sheep portion of the site as lambs start to be born in about 6 weeks.
    Update: I closed Millbury Travel some time ago so the link no longer works. I no longer have my own website, but do have a page on farmfresh.org. www.farmfresh.org/food/farm.php?farm=1306 _
    post edited by tmiles - 2010/01/05 11:23:15
    #9
    Charity
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 09:43:05 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Bushie

    As much as possible, I try to buy from my local farms. Eggs, milk, beef, lamb, and chicken come from farms within 30 miles from my house, and I've developed friendships with these farmers. Veggies and fruits are abundant from local farmers at the markets, and again, I try to buy exclusively from them.

    [snipped]

    I'm encouraged by the fact that these small farms are becoming more viable. Still have a long way to go, but the "buy local" idea is really catching on all across the country from what I'm reading. It's like a movement is taking hold to get away from mass-produced and mass-distributed food, and to quote Martha, "It's a good thing."


    We're in Boston, so both the short growing season and the much smaller number of local livestock farms make this harder for us to do 100%, but in the past 6 months we've really tried to make a shift to buying locally. (The brutal fact of it is, the climate limits the farmer's market season etc. to June-November at best.)

    I've been shopping the farmer's markets in season for years, and we've been CSA members for 4 or 5 years now, which gives us 16 or 17 weeks of fresh produce from a farmer we know. We've shifted a lot of our off-season produce shopping to a place in Watertown (A. Russo & Sons) that makes a point of trying to buy locally when they can, including from hothouse growers in the off season.

    This past summer we started buying beef from a Massachusetts farm that sells at one of the local farmer's markets, and they deliver to restaurants and homes in Boston year-round - I need to get in an order soon, because we've run through all the ground beef and most of the stew beef we stocked up on at the last farmer's market of the season, back at the end of October.

    Russo's sells local eggs, milk and other dairy product, and we also bought eggs from another seller at the farmer's market over the summmer. We've found a farm in NH that sells half hogs, although we're still on the waiting list for the spring slaughter.

    Ironically, given the start of this thread, we've had the hardest time on poultry, and have not yet found a nearby farm that raises chicken (though if I'd planned better we could have had a locally raised turkey for Thanksgiving...) Any leads on poultry farmers in eastern MA, southern NH, or RI/eastern CT would be welcome!
    #10
    UncleVic
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 10:01:00 (permalink)
    Tmiles, just out of curiosity I went to check out your site. The sheep link (javascript) didnt seem to do anything here...
    #11
    1bbqboy
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 10:07:18 (permalink)
    #12
    tmiles
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 10:12:21 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by UncleVic

    Tmiles, just out of curiosity I went to check out your site. The sheep link (javascript) didnt seem to do anything here...

    I just checked it and it worked for me. I am no web expert so I don't know why it didn't work for you. As a Vacation.com member, I get the use of "sitebuilder" software, and built my own site according to the mask provided. Some of my links are fairly good because they point to professional web sites, but my "custom pages" like "sheep" are very simple. I don't even know how to do paragraphs in them. I can do a page in "pagemaker" and put it over there, but it takes me a long time at my skill level. You may be surprised to learn that my site gets more hits for my peony and sheep info than for travel.
    #13
    tmiles
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 10:19:07 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by Charity

    quote:
    Originally posted by Bushie

    As much as possible, I try to buy from my local farms. Eggs, milk, beef, lamb, and chicken come from farms within 30 miles from my house, and I've developed friendships with these farmers. Veggies and fruits are abundant from local farmers at the markets, and again, I try to buy exclusively from them.

    [snipped]

    I'm encouraged by the fact that these small farms are becoming more viable. Still have a long way to go, but the "buy local" idea is really catching on all across the country from what I'm reading. It's like a movement is taking hold to get away from mass-produced and mass-distributed food, and to quote Martha, "It's a good thing."


    We're in Boston, so both the short growing season and the much smaller number of local livestock farms make this harder for us to do 100%, but in the past 6 months we've really tried to make a shift to buying locally. (The brutal fact of it is, the climate limits the farmer's market season etc. to June-November at best.)

    I've been shopping the farmer's markets in season for years, and we've been CSA members for 4 or 5 years now, which gives us 16 or 17 weeks of fresh produce from a farmer we know. We've shifted a lot of our off-season produce shopping to a place in Watertown (A. Russo & Sons) that makes a point of trying to buy locally when they can, including from hothouse growers in the off season.

    This past summer we started buying beef from a Massachusetts farm that sells at one of the local farmer's markets, and they deliver to restaurants and homes in Boston year-round - I need to get in an order soon, because we've run through all the ground beef and most of the stew beef we stocked up on at the last farmer's market of the season, back at the end of October.

    Russo's sells local eggs, milk and other dairy product, and we also bought eggs from another seller at the farmer's market over the summmer. We've found a farm in NH that sells half hogs, although we're still on the waiting list for the spring slaughter.

    Ironically, given the start of this thread, we've had the hardest time on poultry, and have not yet found a nearby farm that raises chicken (though if I'd planned better we could have had a locally raised turkey for Thanksgiving...) Any leads on poultry farmers in eastern MA, southern NH, or RI/eastern CT would be welcome!


    You should try Blood Farm, 94 W. Main St, W. Groton Mass 978-448-6669. Disclosure.....They have bought a lot of my lambs over the years. There is some good info about them on Google.
    #14
    1bbqboy
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 10:19:52 (permalink)
    This seems to be the preferred "alternative" chicken out in these parts.
    http://www.petalumapoultry.com/organic.html
    http://www.mindfully.org/Sustainability/Agriculture-Petaluma8apr03.htm

    Petaluma Poultry is known throughout the western states for being a purveyor of free range and organic poultry. Its product line includes Rocky the Range Chicken, Rosie the Organic Chicken, and Rocky Jr. The terms natural and organic have been abused within the natural foods marketplace for years, but Petaluma Poultry is serious about farming methods and the product they offer consumers.

    The company uses no antibiotics or hormones on the chickens and feeds them corn and soybean meal that contain no animal fat or animal by-products. The avoidance of antibiotics requires that the poultry houses be kept clean in order to keep the birds in perfect health. "In the 1980s, Allen started thinking about comments from chefs about the French-style chickens," said Duranceau. "That's when he decided to go to France to figure out what it was about the farming methods there that produced good-tasting chickens. Out of that came a philosophy of using no antibiotics."
    "We were the first in the country to raise free range chickens," said Duranceau. "All of our chickens are free roaming, and that means not being kept in cages. Rocky and Rosie are both free range chickens that are fully feathered and are allowed to go outside within a fenced area. Prior to four weeks old, they have to stay inside because they aren't fully feathered and could get sunburned."

    In addition to quality care for the livestock, Petaluma Poultry has also put together a Sustainability Team with the goal of minimizing the company's environmental impact. "We're working with the University of California, Davis and the United States Department of Agriculture in their pilot ozone project that's designed to sanitize water and eliminate the use of chlorine in the processing plant," said Duranceau. "We've also done many little things that add up. We did some lighting conversions and received a $20,000 rebate from PG&E last year, eliminated the use of freezer gel packs used in shipping chickens by air, and are working with the Petaluma Wetlands Project."

    With a strong history of sustainable agriculture, it's no surprise that the company has been awarded the Environmental Business of the Year award. "Our farming methods strive to create harmonious relationships in nature, sustaining the health of creatures and the natural world," Duranceau said.

    "Sustainable agriculture means taking care of the land God blessed you with and being a good steward of it. It means taking care of the livestock he's given you and taking care of the people that work for you. It's like a three-pronged spoke. You never see a two-pronged spoke, there's always a minimum of three. If you took one out, it wouldn't work. Sustainable agriculture to us means taking care of those three things."
    I suppose this shows how different states view this type of agriculture.
    #15
    1bbqboy
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 12:23:07 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by tmiles

    quote:
    Originally posted by UncleVic

    Tmiles, just out of curiosity I went to check out your site. The sheep link (javascript) didnt seem to do anything here...

    I just checked it and it worked for me. I am no web expert so I don't know why it didn't work for you. As a Vacation.com member, I get the use of "sitebuilder" software, and built my own site according to the mask provided. Some of my links are fairly good because they point to professional web sites, but my "custom pages" like "sheep" are very simple. I don't even know how to do paragraphs in them. I can do a page in "pagemaker" and put it over there, but it takes me a long time at my skill level. You may be surprised to learn that my site gets more hits for my peony and sheep info than for travel.

    Hey Tmiles, links didn't work for me either. Mac OS10 and firefox. I wanted to read about peonies and Sarcoxie. Oregon seems to be peony country.
    #16
    V960
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2005/12/16 14:22:37 (permalink)
    I market my free range chickens as live animals. I am selling livestock not meat. Virtually no restrictions beyond a free livestock license. Many ethnic folks prefer the animals live and actually will pay a premium.

    The Chinese market that buys my eggs and chickens couldn't care less about regulations. Cash deal and I don't exist. Couldn't handle preparing the eggs as baluts. Do a google for the whole story on baluts. Far east beer nuts.
    #17
    tmiles
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    RE: Organic/free range/whatever 2010/01/05 11:27:40 (permalink)
    I don't sell free range eggs, but was thinking of it, as people ask for them at the farm markets where I sell. I've changed my mind. A hawk has been beating up on the few chickens and ducks in my home flock. I've had to confine them to protect them (let the hawk eat field mice like he/she is supposed to). No free range poultry for me.
    #18
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