Hot!Pics of my p30 truck build

Page: < 12 Showing page 2 of 2
Author
Dr of BBQ
Filet Mignon
  • Total Posts : 3716
  • Joined: 2004/10/11 20:16:00
  • Location: Springfield, IL
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2012/03/24 00:24:37 (permalink)
Kitchen sinks don't need P-Traps, or vents, according to our code have you checked your code? In a mobile food or regular kitchen operation, in Illinois you must have a (can't think of the term) larger funnel type drain and an air gap in order to compensate for P-Traps and of course you don't need a vent for that type of system. Someone here doing a truck build discussed that at length in a thread. I'd check my code before you go through a bunch of work, worry, and expense.
#31
edwmax
Double Chili Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 2073
  • Joined: 2007/01/01 15:42:00
  • Location: Cairo, GA
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2012/03/24 07:46:37 (permalink)
I'm not a fan of the 'air gap' requirement. There are better ways to do the same job, but many HD Insp. do not understand this.  In mobile setups, the vent on the waste tank is the air gap and this is the positive stop for the highest point that waste can backup in the drain line. But since a mobile setup is an independent, self contained system this will not happen anyway vs the possibility of a B&M kitchen at a low point on a city sewer system where sewage could backflow into the kitchen.    Also, some Codes do make allowance for the use of 'floor drains' as the effective 'air gap' if the drain is on the same service line and within 25 ft of the sink.   ...There are 2 causes for sewage to backup into a sink (temporally & unknown):  plumbing fixtures at a higher elevation within the building and slow draining or undersize service lines;  .... other business/homes at a higher elevations being serviced by a slow draining city sewer line.
 
The p-trap function is to stop stinking sewer gas from entering the kitchen or house and should be installed on the sewer side of the air gap.
 
Dr BBQ is correct some local codes specifically require an 'air gap' at all kitchen sinks; some HD Insp will not have it anyway but their way regardless of the Code requirement.   There are a couple of threads on these forums showing the extend Members have went to, to satisfy their HD Dept.
#32
Dr of BBQ
Filet Mignon
  • Total Posts : 3716
  • Joined: 2004/10/11 20:16:00
  • Location: Springfield, IL
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2012/03/24 09:22:15 (permalink)
QUESTION: What is an air gap?

ANSWER: An air gap is a vertical, physical separation between the end of a water supply outlet and the flood-level rim of a receiving vessel. This separation must be at least twice the diameter of the water supply outlet and never less than one inch. An air gap is considered the maximum protection available against back pressure back flow or back siphonage but is not always practical and can easily be bypassed.
 
Here is a picture http://www.abpa.org/faq.htm#8
 

#33
Dr of BBQ
Filet Mignon
  • Total Posts : 3716
  • Joined: 2004/10/11 20:16:00
  • Location: Springfield, IL
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2012/03/24 09:48:56 (permalink)
I think there are two problems that cause the confusion on building codes especially with issues like this.
 
One is the unwillingness of inspectors to explain the code (complete with pictures).
 
The other is the builder’s inexperience in the build.
 
Inspector’s use terms that are like code to new builders and leave a lot of questions that may occur hours or even days down the road unanswered.  As often as not doing the research (reading local code books) still leaves unanswered questions.
 
It would be so much easier if inspectors offered a code book complete with options and multi view pictures/diagrams of acceptable alternatives.
 
And after you have tried this and that and finally worked your way through the numerous inspections  process and expense of refitting most are still puzzled as to how the system works or why its required to be built that way.  
 
I still think the best bet is to go view a working system with an inspector to explain the hows and whys.
#34
edwmax
Double Chili Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 2073
  • Joined: 2007/01/01 15:42:00
  • Location: Cairo, GA
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2012/03/24 12:11:15 (permalink)
The 'air gap' described is one method to prevent raw sewage from back flowing into a sink used for food preparation.   Raw sewage can temporally back flow into a sink and drain out without anyone being aware it happened. This is the reason back flows need to be prevented.   ... But the way many HD implement this requirement simple causes the raw sewage or sink waste to flow out onto the kitchen floor where the contamination will be tracked all over the kitchen and serving areas, thus causing and even bigger problem where the restaurant needed to be shut down and sanitized.
 
Per many Codes an 'air gap' is not always required.   This section of the "PART 890 ILLINOIS PLUMBING CODE" clearly states this.  ref: http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/admincode/077/077008900H10100R.html
....
Section 890.1010  Indirect Waste Piping
 a)         Food and Beverage Handling.  Commercial dishwashing machines, dishwashing sinks, pot washing sinks, pre-rinse sinks, silverware sinks, bar sinks, soda fountain sinks, vegetable sinks, potato peelers, ice machines, steam tables, steam cookers and other similar fixtures shall have their drain lines indirectly discharged to a proper receptor.  The only exception shall be when such fixtures are located adjacent to a floor drain.  The waste may be directly connected on the sewer side of the floor drain trap provided the fixture waste is trapped and vented as required by this Part (see Appendix H:  Illustrations A and B), and the floor drain is located within 4 feet horizontally of the fixtures and in the same room.   ....

 
referenced illustrations:  
ill A: [url]http://www.ilga.gov/commi...07700890ZZ9996haR.html[/url]

 
ill B: http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/admincode/077/07700890ZZ9996hbR.html

 
 
  note: the Illinois Plumbing Code was used because it was readly available and online for reference.
post edited by edwmax - 2012/03/24 12:26:24
#35
Dr of BBQ
Filet Mignon
  • Total Posts : 3716
  • Joined: 2004/10/11 20:16:00
  • Location: Springfield, IL
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2012/03/24 12:29:15 (permalink)
Edwmax your funny I know the Illinois code, but I don't think the question came from someone in Illinois. However it was nice of you to show a better diagram of the air gap system. And I would question that if a floor drain backed up the BOH staff would allow it to be tracked all over the kitchen or into the FOH. I guess they could but I doubt it.
jack
#36
edwmax
Double Chili Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 2073
  • Joined: 2007/01/01 15:42:00
  • Location: Cairo, GA
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2012/03/24 15:02:37 (permalink)
I wasn't trying to be funny    ... Your above post stated that in Illinois "must have a (can't think of the term) larger funnel type drain and an air gap".  Per the Illinois Plumbing Code that isn't true, but I have no doubt a HD Insp told you that.
 
I just did a google for 'mobile food build guide'.  There are a number of these guide & codes online.   California does not require 'air gaps' if the the waste tank is vented and a couple of other states indicate the same.  But, several states specially require that all food preparation equipment (sinks ect) can not connect directly to the waste drain & tank (ie: air gap). Other guides are ambiguous as to their requirements.
 
As for waste backing up onto the kitchen floor, I sure the HD would not allow the kitchen to continue operation if they saw it, but I question whether all kitchen manages would close the kitchen and stop severing if the HD was not onsite.   ... I have been in a kitchen where the sinks were flooding the floor and staff was tracking the 'dirty water' into the service areas.
#37
Dr of BBQ
Filet Mignon
  • Total Posts : 3716
  • Joined: 2004/10/11 20:16:00
  • Location: Springfield, IL
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2012/03/24 15:56:57 (permalink)
"I have been in a kitchen where the sinks were flooding the floor and staff was tracking the 'dirty water' into the service areas."
 
God that's disgusting and I sure hope I never eat in that place, because if they would do that they are cutting a lot of other corners..
 
Our health department doesn't inspect waste water and fresh water tanks to that extent. We have a city plumbing inspector that does that. And your guess is correct he insisted on the air gap. But he is the same dummy that wanted BOCA codes used and our city has never approved them. So I said no on that part.
 
But that just proves my point in that "the inspector'' should flat out offer a report with and multiview pictures/diagrams of acceptable alternatives. And they could charge for it but when you got done you'd know it was code and done the right way.
 
But here they have a terrible habit of giving you a list of 2 or 3 things and when you finish that they give you another list. And that sucks in fact there was almost a fight in city hall over that when I was building my trailer. LMAO I had the entire office in an uproar. Now they are very respectful and we get along well.
 
jack
#38
nlapinski
Junior Burger
  • Total Posts : 3
  • Joined: 2013/08/26 14:07:00
  • Location: Philadelphia, PA
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2013/08/26 14:12:39 (permalink)
edwmax, I'm working on a P30 build, would you mind sharing your sketchup file, or a link to the van model you used as a base?
 
Thanks,
Nate
 
 
#39
edwmax
Double Chili Cheeseburger
  • Total Posts : 2073
  • Joined: 2007/01/01 15:42:00
  • Location: Cairo, GA
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2013/08/26 15:42:28 (permalink)
Do a web search for 'sketchup catering truck' or 'sketchup food truck'.    On 3d warehouse, you will find several files to select from. More than a year ago.  I think it was the 'catering van/taco truck' that I started from.    http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=16a54f42e76fc7ec69aa7c0bbd18138b

or this one:   http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=a8878015c1633d23b73fa3ccf418a5b 
 
If these don't help, Pm me.
post edited by edwmax - 2013/08/26 16:08:13
#40
nlapinski
Junior Burger
  • Total Posts : 3
  • Joined: 2013/08/26 14:07:00
  • Location: Philadelphia, PA
  • Status: offline
Re:Pics of my p30 truck build 2013/08/27 21:08:06 (permalink)
That helps! Thanks!!
 
-Nate
#41
Page: < 12 Showing page 2 of 2
Jump to:
© 2014 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1