Pricing Advice

BillyB


Hey POPS, I wonder how many people are using local meat markets. This maybe a way to use local beef hot dogs and sausage and advertise. The  meat market would get some advertising with you buying, and selling, his product.  If people like it they could go to his market and buy iy for home use. This may work well with his area in the south. Thye are all about local, local, local. Also thanks for the good advice in this post.................Bill

Bill,
 
I don't know how many are using local meat markets.  I would like to sell a local dog or sausage, but only if it was a superior product and cost effective.  We have a local company that grows their own meat and makes their own dogs.  Problem is that the dogs are pork, and they are expensive.  Nautidogs uses a local meat company that seems to offer a great product and a great value.
 
I love the idea of supporting local as long as it makes sense.  We use a local mustard as well as local hot sauces.

PopsDogHouse

Methais,
A couple of thoughts here.  First, I was at Sam's today and  that dog is actually a 4/1.  It's been my experience that most folks would rather have (2) 8/1's than (1) 4/1. Just something to think about.

Yep, I went up there today to check and they were 4/1 here, and that's the only size they have. I bought one to see how big they are, and they're freakin huge! The first thing I thought of is "Nobody's gonna be able to eat 2 of these.", and I'm with you on 2 8/1's vs. 1 4/1. Less is more to a lot of people in situations like this, and it would be more profitable to me too, so everyone wins.

Only problem is I can't find anywhere that sells Nathan's 8/1's in bulk. There's no Costco or anything around here, just Sam's as far as I know. I checked with one of the vendors at my commissary and they only sell 5/1.

I'm probably not going to budge on wanting to sell 8/1 dogs. Problem is if I can't find 8/1 Nathan's in bulk (Walmart sells packs of 8 for $4.12, which would just be really stupid for me to go with that price). BUT if people are willing to pay $3 for it, then it would be fine. Though I'd much rather sell for $2, but at $.53 per it's just not feasible.

So assuming I can't find 8/1 Nathan's in bulk, I'm at a bit of a crossroad here and could use some advice on another good all beef brand to use. Sam's had Ball Park 8/1 for $.27 per. Everything else was chicken and pork garbage for around $.13-16 per, which I'm not even considering because all beef is just better imho.

I don't think Ball Park dogs are bad at all, but Nathan's just has something about them that no other brand I've ever had has. So I could either do Ball Parks for $2 each and hope people like them enough to keep buying them, or do Nathan's for $3 (or maybe $2.50) and hope people think the better quality is worth the extra price. I'm all ears here if anyone has any recommendations for this.
 

Second, you are estimating too high on your condiments.

Yep, I did that intentionally since I was just running some rough numbers and don't really know how many "servings" (or what the nutrition label tries to tell you is a serving, but that's a rant for another day) of mustard go on an average dog, etc. Though I suppose I could break out the teaspoons and stuff and squirt exactly 1 serving of X condiment and see if it's enough for an average dog.

But yeah, that $1.04 production cost for a hot dog is (and with probable overestimation on condiment costs) a dog with mustard, relish, ketchup, mayo, jalapenos, onions, a boat, fork, napkin, and also assuming I change gloves after every dog, which obviously won't be the case but I was running rough numbers to see what my super ultra bottom of the barrel low end profit would be. I guess it's better to overestimate your costs than underestimate, at least to an extent. I'm guessing (hoping?) that a more accurate number would be around $.75-80 cents per dog. But then again since this is using $.53 for a 1/4 dog when I'm looking to sell 1/8 dogs, I think it's safe to say none of these numbers are even remotely accurate at the moment. I would guess at least using Ball Park dogs with the other ingredients being the same that my cost would be more around $.70-80 cents per dog. Does that sound about right you think?
 

Just a couple more things to think about.  You can use foil for .01 each instead of the boat at .02.  Foil will also keep the bun steamy and food hotter for a longer period of time.  Forget the fork.  We only use them with our Half pound Belly Buster because once you load it with Chili and Slaw, it can get messy.  Sam's club here sells canned soda for .30 each.  Watch Walmart closely on soda.  They run it on sale for $6 per case.  That's .25 per can.  I just bought 80 cases Saturday at this price.  On your chips, if you are using the 1 oz bags from Sam's, you will probably get serious price resistance at $1.

I agree with you on the chips. I priced some 1 3/8 oz. and some 2 oz. chips at Sam's today and they were about $.37 per bag, as opposed to $.23 for a 1 oz. bag. So I'll probably go with the 2 oz. bags instead. The individual profit will be slightly less, but I'm sure it will be more than made up for from selling better. Even if I dropped the 1 oz. bags to $.75, the 2 oz. bags would still be better profit. I'm with you on the drinks too. I plan to rack up on those once I have all my papers straight and permits (inspection tomorrow!) and am ready to start buying actual food.

As for the foil...I plan on dressing the dogs myself, so if I made say a decked out Chicago dog, wouldn't unwrapping the foil pull some of the condiments off the top of the dog and make a bit of a mess? I'm not opposed to using foil at all, I was just thinking boats would be less messy, but I'd be losing out on the dog keeping warm for longer too like you said. I keep forgetting to buy some foil and test the sloppy condiment thing I just mentioned, but hopefully it causes minimal mess....right? :D
 

Does your selling price include tax?  If so, you have to figure that into your margin.

Yes, all my prices will include tax.
 

Edit: You can also purchase buns at the cafe at Sam's.  They steam well, taste good, and will hold that quarter pounder.  They will run you $13 for 80 buns (.16 ea.).

Are you talking about the big buns that they serve those 4/1 hot dogs in at their cafe? I meant to check on that while I was there today after I ate one of those monsters, but I managed to somehow forget. I'd prefer to stay away from 4/1's though, but I won't rule it out completely.

I also couldn't find any good precooked sausages at Sam's. They were all gigantic. Walmart had some nice New Orleans and Italian style sausages (might have been bratwursts, I can't remember but they're pretty much the same thing right?) that were great and I was hoping to find them in bulk at Sam's, but no luck today.

Phew that was a long post. Thanks again for all the help and advice folks. And if anyone knows where I can find 8/1 Nathan's in bulk, I will love you forever.

Methais

PopsDogHouse

Methais,
A couple of thoughts here.  First, I was at Sam's today and  that dog is actually a 4/1.  It's been my experience that most folks would rather have (2) 8/1's than (1) 4/1. Just something to think about.

Yep, I went up there today to check and they were 4/1 here, and that's the only size they have. I bought one to see how big they are, and they're freakin huge! The first thing I thought of is "Nobody's gonna be able to eat 2 of these.", and I'm with you on 2 8/1's vs. 1 4/1. Less is more to a lot of people in situations like this, and it would be more profitable to me too, so everyone wins.
 
You got it!

Only problem is I can't find anywhere that sells Nathan's 8/1's in bulk. There's no Costco or anything around here, just Sam's as far as I know. I checked with one of the vendors at my commissary and they only sell 5/1.

I'm probably not going to budge on wanting to sell 8/1 dogs. Problem is if I can't find 8/1 Nathan's in bulk (Walmart sells packs of 8 for $4.12, which would just be really stupid for me to go with that price). BUT if people are willing to pay $3 for it, then it would be fine. Though I'd much rather sell for $2, but at $.53 per it's just not feasible.

So assuming I can't find 8/1 Nathan's in bulk, I'm at a bit of a crossroad here and could use some advice on another good all beef brand to use. Sam's had Ball Park 8/1 for $.27 per. Everything else was chicken and pork garbage for around $.13-16 per, which I'm not even considering because all beef is just better imho.

I don't think Ball Park dogs are bad at all, but Nathan's just has something about them that no other brand I've ever had has. So I could either do Ball Parks for $2 each and hope people like them enough to keep buying them, or do Nathan's for $3 (or maybe $2.50) and hope people think the better quality is worth the extra price. I'm all ears here if anyone has any recommendations for this.
 
One of the problems with building your business around Sam's or Costco is that they are an unreliable supplier for food service.  I am not talking about paper goods, foil, and soda.  They are pretty good in that area.  They eliminate products and bring in new products all the time.  You can get caught in the middle.  You want consistency in product and supply.  You can also check with GFS or Restaurant Depot.  If you still have no luck, you may want to talk to Sysco or US Foods.  They are not a low cost provider.  They are going to be higher than Sam's or Costco in most cases.  It has been my experience that they are much more reliable though (as long as you don't expect miracles).  My rep is great.  He has really been an asset to my business.   I was able to establish a rapport with my rep and he does not enforce any minimum order on me.  Times are tough for many restaurants and the food suppliers are having to become more flexible.

Second, you are estimating too high on your condiments.

Yep, I did that intentionally since I was just running some rough numbers and don't really know how many "servings" (or what the nutrition label tries to tell you is a serving, but that's a rant for another day) of mustard go on an average dog, etc. Though I suppose I could break out the teaspoons and stuff and squirt exactly 1 serving of X condiment and see if it's enough for an average dog.

But yeah, that $1.04 production cost for a hot dog is (and with probable overestimation on condiment costs) a dog with mustard, relish, ketchup, mayo, jalapenos, onions, a boat, fork, napkin, and also assuming I change gloves after every dog, which obviously won't be the case but I was running rough numbers to see what my super ultra bottom of the barrel low end profit would be. I guess it's better to overestimate your costs than underestimate, at least to an extent. I'm guessing (hoping?) that a more accurate number would be around $.75-80 cents per dog. But then again since this is using $.53 for a 1/4 dog when I'm looking to sell 1/8 dogs, I think it's safe to say none of these numbers are even remotely accurate at the moment. I would guess at least using Ball Park dogs with the other ingredients being the same that my cost would be more around $.70-80 cents per dog. Does that sound about right you think?

Just a couple more things to think about.  You can use foil for .01 each instead of the boat at .02.  Foil will also keep the bun steamy and food hotter for a longer period of time.  Forget the fork.  We only use them with our Half pound Belly Buster because once you load it with Chili and Slaw, it can get messy.  Sam's club here sells canned soda for .30 each.  Watch Walmart closely on soda.  They run it on sale for $6 per case.  That's .25 per can.  I just bought 80 cases Saturday at this price.  On your chips, if you are using the 1 oz bags from Sam's, you will probably get serious price resistance at $1.

I agree with you on the chips. I priced some 1 3/8 oz. and some 2 oz. chips at Sam's today and they were about $.37 per bag, as opposed to $.23 for a 1 oz. bag. So I'll probably go with the 2 oz. bags instead. The individual profit will be slightly less, but I'm sure it will be more than made up for from selling better. Even if I dropped the 1 oz. bags to $.75, the 2 oz. bags would still be better profit. I'm with you on the drinks too. I plan to rack up on those once I have all my papers straight and permits (inspection tomorrow!) and am ready to start buying actual food.
 
One of the nice things about the smaller 1 oz bags is that they figure in nicely in a combo meal to improve your OVERALL margin because of the lower cost.  Just something to think about.

As for the foil...I plan on dressing the dogs myself, so if I made say a decked out Chicago dog, wouldn't unwrapping the foil pull some of the condiments off the top of the dog and make a bit of a mess? I'm not opposed to using foil at all, I was just thinking boats would be less messy, but I'd be losing out on the dog keeping warm for longer too like you said. I keep forgetting to buy some foil and test the sloppy condiment thing I just mentioned, but hopefully it causes minimal mess....right? :D
 
Lay your wet condiments down first.  Chicago dog shouldn't be a big issue.  We use foil and 80%-90% of our dogs contain chili and/or slaw.

Does your selling price include tax?  If so, you have to figure that into your margin.

Yes, all my prices will include tax.
 
Ok.  Then you have to add the sales tax into the cost of your product to get an accurate product cost.

Edit: You can also purchase buns at the cafe at Sam's.  They steam well, taste good, and will hold that quarter pounder.  They will run you $13 for 80 buns (.16 ea.).

Are you talking about the big buns that they serve those 4/1 hot dogs in at their cafe? I meant to check on that while I was there today after I ate one of those monsters, but I managed to somehow forget. I'd prefer to stay away from 4/1's though, but I won't rule it out completely.
 
Yes.  Those were the buns that I was referring to, but if you don't go with the Nathan's 4/1 it is a moot point.

I also couldn't find any good precooked sausages at Sam's. They were all gigantic. Walmart had some nice New Orleans and Italian style sausages (might have been bratwursts, I can't remember but they're pretty much the same thing right?) that were great and I was hoping to find them in bulk at Sam's, but no luck today.
 
If you decide to talk to Sysco or US Foods, ask them about Fontanini Bratwurst and Italian Sausage.  You won't be sorry.

Phew that was a long post. Thanks again for all the help and advice folks. And if anyone knows where I can find 8/1 Nathan's in bulk, I will love you forever.

BillyB

rickmalek


Here is my food cost breakdown:

Nathans 4-1 dog- $2.75 @ FC 27.598%
Hebrew National 4-1 dog- $3.25 @ FC 28.98%
Boars Head Veal Brat 4-1-$4.50 @ FC 32.96%
Boars Head NC 8-1 dog-$2.00 @ FC 33.655%
Johnsonville Turkey Cheddar Dog$-2.75 @FC 27.552%

Hey Rick, How do the Boars Head Brats sell???????  

Not very well right now.  I am going to stick with it this season and see how it sells.  I really love the Boars Head Spicy Sausage.  I think I am going to add that dude next shipment.

Methais

PopsDogHouse

Methais,
A couple of thoughts here.  First, I was at Sam's today and  that dog is actually a 4/1.  It's been my experience that most folks would rather have (2) 8/1's than (1) 4/1. Just something to think about.

Yep, I went up there today to check and they were 4/1 here, and that's the only size they have. I bought one to see how big they are, and they're freakin huge! The first thing I thought of is "Nobody's gonna be able to eat 2 of these.", and I'm with you on 2 8/1's vs. 1 4/1. Less is more to a lot of people in situations like this, and it would be more profitable to me too, so everyone wins.

Only problem is I can't find anywhere that sells Nathan's 8/1's in bulk. There's no Costco or anything around here, just Sam's as far as I know. I checked with one of the vendors at my commissary and they only sell 5/1.

I'm probably not going to budge on wanting to sell 8/1 dogs. Problem is if I can't find 8/1 Nathan's in bulk (Walmart sells packs of 8 for $4.12, which would just be really stupid for me to go with that price). BUT if people are willing to pay $3 for it, then it would be fine. Though I'd much rather sell for $2, but at $.53 per it's just not feasible.

So assuming I can't find 8/1 Nathan's in bulk, I'm at a bit of a crossroad here and could use some advice on another good all beef brand to use. Sam's had Ball Park 8/1 for $.27 per. Everything else was chicken and pork garbage for around $.13-16 per, which I'm not even considering because all beef is just better imho.

I don't think Ball Park dogs are bad at all, but Nathan's just has something about them that no other brand I've ever had has. So I could either do Ball Parks for $2 each and hope people like them enough to keep buying them, or do Nathan's for $3 (or maybe $2.50) and hope people think the better quality is worth the extra price. I'm all ears here if anyone has any recommendations for this.

Second, you are estimating too high on your condiments.

Yep, I did that intentionally since I was just running some rough numbers and don't really know how many "servings" (or what the nutrition label tries to tell you is a serving, but that's a rant for another day) of mustard go on an average dog, etc. Though I suppose I could break out the teaspoons and stuff and squirt exactly 1 serving of X condiment and see if it's enough for an average dog.

But yeah, that $1.04 production cost for a hot dog is (and with probable overestimation on condiment costs) a dog with mustard, relish, ketchup, mayo, jalapenos, onions, a boat, fork, napkin, and also assuming I change gloves after every dog, which obviously won't be the case but I was running rough numbers to see what my super ultra bottom of the barrel low end profit would be. I guess it's better to overestimate your costs than underestimate, at least to an extent. I'm guessing (hoping?) that a more accurate number would be around $.75-80 cents per dog. But then again since this is using $.53 for a 1/4 dog when I'm looking to sell 1/8 dogs, I think it's safe to say none of these numbers are even remotely accurate at the moment. I would guess at least using Ball Park dogs with the other ingredients being the same that my cost would be more around $.70-80 cents per dog. Does that sound about right you think?

Just a couple more things to think about.  You can use foil for .01 each instead of the boat at .02.  Foil will also keep the bun steamy and food hotter for a longer period of time.  Forget the fork.  We only use them with our Half pound Belly Buster because once you load it with Chili and Slaw, it can get messy.  Sam's club here sells canned soda for .30 each.  Watch Walmart closely on soda.  They run it on sale for $6 per case.  That's .25 per can.  I just bought 80 cases Saturday at this price.  On your chips, if you are using the 1 oz bags from Sam's, you will probably get serious price resistance at $1.

I agree with you on the chips. I priced some 1 3/8 oz. and some 2 oz. chips at Sam's today and they were about $.37 per bag, as opposed to $.23 for a 1 oz. bag. So I'll probably go with the 2 oz. bags instead. The individual profit will be slightly less, but I'm sure it will be more than made up for from selling better. Even if I dropped the 1 oz. bags to $.75, the 2 oz. bags would still be better profit. I'm with you on the drinks too. I plan to rack up on those once I have all my papers straight and permits (inspection tomorrow!) and am ready to start buying actual food.

As for the foil...I plan on dressing the dogs myself, so if I made say a decked out Chicago dog, wouldn't unwrapping the foil pull some of the condiments off the top of the dog and make a bit of a mess? I'm not opposed to using foil at all, I was just thinking boats would be less messy, but I'd be losing out on the dog keeping warm for longer too like you said. I keep forgetting to buy some foil and test the sloppy condiment thing I just mentioned, but hopefully it causes minimal mess....right? :D

Does your selling price include tax?  If so, you have to figure that into your margin.

Yes, all my prices will include tax.

Edit: You can also purchase buns at the cafe at Sam's.  They steam well, taste good, and will hold that quarter pounder.  They will run you $13 for 80 buns (.16 ea.).

Are you talking about the big buns that they serve those 4/1 hot dogs in at their cafe? I meant to check on that while I was there today after I ate one of those monsters, but I managed to somehow forget. I'd prefer to stay away from 4/1's though, but I won't rule it out completely.

I also couldn't find any good precooked sausages at Sam's. They were all gigantic. Walmart had some nice New Orleans and Italian style sausages (might have been bratwursts, I can't remember but they're pretty much the same thing right?) that were great and I was hoping to find them in bulk at Sam's, but no luck today.

Phew that was a long post. Thanks again for all the help and advice folks. And if anyone knows where I can find 8/1 Nathan's in bulk, I will love you forever.

Mathais--

Let me help you out on a few things here.  I sell the 4-1 Nathans dogs from Sams, with the Sams buns and use the foil from Sams.  FAR AND AWAY this is my most popular product and I sell it at the best food cost.   My customers love the Nathans and are happy to pay 2.75 for them.

As for what you said about not thinking that customers will buy 2 of them, you are wrong dude.  I had someone last Saturday night eat 4 in front of me!  That is rare but I get 3 dog eaters all the time and tons of customers that order 2.  Don't dismiss the product because you get it from Sams, people love it.

The Sams buns are really not that great, but are usually OK if you keep them very fresh.  I don't defrost my bread until 6 hours before game time, that way it is nice and soft.  After a couple of days the Sams buns are pretty dry.

If you have good local options on bread i suggest you go that route.

PopsDogHouse
One of the nice things about the smaller 1 oz bags is that they figure in nicely in a combo meal to improve your OVERALL margin because of the lower cost.  Just something to think about.

Makes sense. Good info I'll have to remember :)

rickmalek

Mathais--

Let me help you out on a few things here.  I sell the 4-1 Nathans dogs from Sams, with the Sams buns and use the foil from Sams.  FAR AND AWAY this is my most popular product and I sell it at the best food cost.   My customers love the Nathans and are happy to pay 2.75 for them.

As for what you said about not thinking that customers will buy 2 of them, you are wrong dude.  I had someone last Saturday night eat 4 in front of me!  That is rare but I get 3 dog eaters all the time and tons of customers that order 2.  Don't dismiss the product because you get it from Sams, people love it.

The Sams buns are really not that great, but are usually OK if you keep them very fresh.  I don't defrost my bread until 6 hours before game time, that way it is nice and soft.  After a couple of days the Sams buns are pretty dry.

If you have good local options on bread i suggest you go that route.

Hmm, maybe it will be worth checking out. The more I think about it, I don't see why I couldn't get $3 for a big 1/4 lb. dog out here in the spots I'm looking to set up in, especially around a bunch of hungry drunks.

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it.

...On your chips, if you are using the 1 oz bags from Sam's, you will probably get serious price resistance at $1....

We offer chips @ the same price.  We will be dropping them.  It's not that folks object to the price, they simply don't want them.  BBQ & TGI Friday's  tater skins sells the best but Ruffles don't move.  M&M cookies are selling at the same rate as the skins & BBQ.  So we will keep the cookies & dump the chips (all the same price).

...As for the foil..... I was just thinking boats would be less messy...

We use the Dixie brand  hot dog trays & only wrap in the foil sheets (12" wide) if they will need to transport (most eat a hot dog right at the cart & then order a second dog.  Customers request the condiments they want.

...The Sams buns are really not that great, but are usually OK if you keep them very fresh... After a couple of days the Sams buns are pretty dry...

We use the Flowers brand from Sam's club.  We have kept buns for 3 weeks.  We do freeze them and we have kept them thawed out for several days with out loss of quality.  SaraLee is not acceptable to us.  Poorly cut & end up wasting too many.

Lornaschinske you should be able to get Flowers delivered to you daily?   just a thought.

You don't quite understand our situation. It's a little different than most folks...  

We live (full-time) in an RV.  We travel a lot. Since we moved into the RV 3 yrs ago, we have lived in FL, NC, GA, & TN, multiple times. This was because of David's job (remodeling for a woman who had more $$ than brains).  He is no longer working for her and can now move at our leisure since we dislike staying for too long in one place.  David built the hot dog cart so that we can hit the road when we want... stay a few months in one place... play "tourist" & see the sights, then move on to another spot. We will probably spend our summers in NM... someplace and winter in TX (around Corpus Christi).  We are in Franklin to pack up our stuff, get rid of other stuff (sold the PU truck Finally & scrapped our Eagle05 bus shell... literally...) and bought a 40 ft flat nosed Blue Bird skoolie to transport the stuff we are keeping plus our daughters stuff.  We will move out to NM in another month or so. Weather & flu has messed with us on doing a few things to the RV & packing.... still have to part with some more stuff as it simply won't all fit in the bus & we still have alot of woodworking tools we won't part with because I will convert the Blue Bird into an RV... My old vintage Class C just isn't up to pulling a car hauler with my jeep & the hot dog cart on it.  Franklin & Toccoa Raceway are our "shake-down".  We have worked out quite a few things (like we really don't want to do a 3 day event... last Saurday the races ended after 1:30AM and we still had to drive the 70 miles back to Franklin...  To be semi-retired that was a very long day... multiply that by 3 days and that's is too much for the two of us).  We will most likely stick with Sam's & pick up a Costco account. We do not feel we could set up with a vendor for anything right now. Right now, I don't even know when we are leaving here.  July 3rd is the end of the first half of the race season. But I don't know if we will stay that long or not. David is friends with the manger of the racetrack and he doesn't care how long we work it since it is the driver/pit crew we are serving and he has a hard time finding someone to work over there.  My daughter who is out in NM right now, just found out tonight that her offer was accepted on a house and she may be able to close by June 5th.  We need to wait until she is in her home before we arrive because her sister (currently here with us) has to stay with her until she buys her own RV (& hot dog cart).  We are planing on it taking us about 2 weeks to get out there (we'll be stopping at a TX state park on the way out).  So like I said, it's all up in the air and our situation is too unstable to commit to anything.

Wow, having a hotdog cart in New Mexico in the summer. Whats it going to be like selling dogs when its 115 degree out side????????? 

Can't be too much different than being in South GA at 115F and 95% humidity!  My flip flops would melt on the pavement walking in/out of the air conditioned stores.  I noticed folks would park at the Sonic Drive-in and eat with the AC running.

got it, try to stop in and see me before you leave for NM.

Great thread. Certain areas will not support a $3.00 Hot Dog. And $9.00 for a Hot Dog lunch is a little high. I hate 4/1 large Hot Dogs and alot of people are that way. Everyone will eat an 8/1. I will not go back to a vendor that serves 4/1. I bet others feel the same way. A 4/1 Chicago Dog is horrible. Nobody mentioned Volume. Volume can cure almost all problems. Quality of your product, cleanliness, your attitude, and then price. I will gladly pay $2.50 for a Hot Dog with mustard and onions, $4.00 for a good Chicago or Coney. Tiny bags of chips are terrible....Russ

I'm probably gonna do 4/1 Nathan's and also offer 8/1 Ball Park since I can't find 8/1 Nathan's in bulk around here.