Prime Rib

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The-Porcus
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2003/10/04 18:02:13 (permalink)

Prime Rib

I don't see anyone talking prime rib and it may be almost sacrilegious, in light of the other mouth-watering threads here, to say but to me a great prime rib rises above the best of any steak. However, as the song goes, "don't get around much anymore" so I'm wondering what say people about the best in their region? I used to frequent the venerable Durgin Park in Boston for their excellent prime and, later, came to love Jake O'Shaughenessy's in Seattle with their slow saltroasted beef. But it's been years.
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    Walleye
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/04 18:55:58 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by The-Porcus

    I don't see anyone talking prime rib and it may be almost sacrilegious, in light of the other mouth-watering threads here, to say but to me a great prime rib rises above the best of any steak. However, as the song goes, "don't get around much anymore" so I'm wondering what say people about the best in their region? I used to frequent the venerable Durgin Park in Boston for their excellent prime and, later, came to love Jake O'Shaughenessy's in Seattle with their slow saltroasted beef. But it's been years.


    That might have something to do with the fact that, except in high-end restaurants, you don't often find prime rib. Oh, it's from the rib, but the meat is usually graded Select or Choice.
    #2
    peppertree
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/04 19:05:32 (permalink)
    Whenever I go to Las Vegas, I treat my heart and arteries to a delicious prime rib. Everyone sells it and the prices are fantastic.

    It is hard to go wrong with a prime rib.
    #3
    unclefudd
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/04 21:19:00 (permalink)
    I may be wrong, but my 50-year-old memories of being an apprentice meatcutter seem to be telling me that the "prime" of prime rib has not to do with any USDA grading such as "Select" or "Choice", but rather the section of the beef side it was cut from, i.e., the "prime" or first cut of the rib section.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Walleye

    quote:
    Originally posted by The-Porcus

    I don't see anyone talking prime rib and it may be almost sacrilegious, in light of the other mouth-watering threads here, to say but to me a great prime rib rises above the best of any steak. However, as the song goes, "don't get around much anymore" so I'm wondering what say people about the best in their region? I used to frequent the venerable Durgin Park in Boston for their excellent prime and, later, came to love Jake O'Shaughenessy's in Seattle with their slow saltroasted beef. But it's been years.


    That might have something to do with the fact that, except in high-end restaurants, you don't often find prime rib. Oh, it's from the rib, but the meat is usually graded Select or Choice.
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    seafarer john
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/04 21:53:56 (permalink)
    A "prime rib" cut can be from any portion of the rib section of the steer.
    The name implies that it is a cut from "Prime" graded beef as opposed to other grades.

    My butcher of many years went out of business and I found myself searching around our area for a source of genuine "prime ribs" for our Xmas dinnner. Most buitchers were honest and said thay could not get prime beef even if they had a market for it and promised they would keep any eye out for a promising looking side of choice beef. One butcher, perhaps trained in the same school as "Unclefudd", tried to convince me that "prime rib" was merely the name of a cut of beef and had nothing to do with it's grading by USDA. I at last lucked out when my fish monger said he would get me a prime roast from a supplier of restaurants he knew in a nearby city - it was delicious. Unfortunately, prime beef is almost totally unavailable to the average consumer these days. You have to go to a very high end restaurant to get it - at a helll of a high price. I am not familiar with the widely advertised mail order sellers of Prime beef, does annyone out there have experinece with any of them?
    #5
    RibDog
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/04 22:28:55 (permalink)
    I agree with Seafarer that "Prime Rib" has always referred to a standing rib roast that was graded "Prime" by the USDA. Otherwise, it should be referred to as a standing rib roast.

    But if you are willing to pay for it, prime is available from a number of purveyors over the internet. If you do a search, just make sure you are dealing with someone reputable.

    I myself get the Hereford aged standing rib roast from Fresh Market and I find it is of exceptional quality. I have had "prime" and this is pretty darn close. To fine a distinction for me to spend the extra money for the prime. IMHO.

    John
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    garykg6
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/05 08:21:39 (permalink)
    there used to be a place in Grand Rapids,Michigan called the 'Shnitzelbank' or something akin to that, where the atmosphere was truly german(steins all over the place,etc.)and the prime rib,which had to weigh in at 2lbs+, was an absolute sensation....anyone know of this place?
    #7
    essvee
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/05 12:36:27 (permalink)
    This might be a tad off-topic but I have grilled an 8-rib prime rib a few times and it is so voluptuous. Black and smoky-charred on the outside, brilliant pink-red and juicy on the inside. Truly the best of both worlds.
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    RibDog
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/05 17:05:43 (permalink)
    I agree with you Essvee. During the holidays, I always cook a standing rib roast in my smoker. It is absolutely to die for, if I do say so myself. Everyone I serve it to just loves it.

    John
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    mayor al
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/05 17:51:15 (permalink)
    This probably belongs on a "Pet Peeve" thread, but it fits here too. I am tired of every restaurant bragging on a "Great Ribeye Steak". it seems that most of the those Ribeyes are not Ribeye, but the whole Rib Steak including a large piece fat and the 'cap' or top layer of less attractive and less tender beef. When done as a slice of the rib-roast It is a tasty addition...but when broiled as a steak it is NOT as attractive, and tasty/tender as the real rib "eye" is. Yet the price remains high. I consider the Ribeye lable to be false advertising on the part of the places who do mislead us poor consumers.
    #10
    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/05 17:58:07 (permalink)
    Originally posted by unclefudd

    I may be wrong, but my 50-year-old memories of being an apprentice meatcutter seem to be telling me that the "prime" of prime rib has not to do with any USDA grading such as "Select" or "Choice", but rather the section of the beef side it was cut from, i.e., the "prime" or first cut of the rib section.

    It certainly used to. I base that on my memories of working at my father's wholesale meat business. New Haven Packing Co. Purveyors to Hotels and Restaurants."
    #11
    RibDog
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/05 19:49:03 (permalink)
    I stand corrected Uncle Fudd and Michael. I did a little hunting and found the following explanation of "prime rib" on the California Barbecue Association website.

    It said:

    Prime rib does not always mean "USDA prime grade"

    Opinion by JOE O'CONNELL, cbbqa Past President
    Posted November 30, 2001

    There is a common belief that a "prime rib" refers to USDA prime-grade rib roast. This is a myth.

    In beef, prime rib has long meant the best cut of the rib section. The rib section is cut from the 6th to the 12th ribs, inclusive. This means that the rib section does not include the 5th rib forward, which is part of the "chuck", and the 13th rib backwards, which is part of the "loin".

    As described below, chefs like Ranhofer in 1894 used the term "Prime Rib" many years before the USDA first adopted a tentative meat grading system in 1916.

    Ranhofer's reference
    For example, Charles Ranhofer, the famous 19th Century chef de cuisine at Delmonico's Restaurant in Manhattan, explained the meaning of Prime Rib in his 1894 treatise, The Epicurean, at page 472. Ranhofer's illustration of the American beef cuts shows three cuts, labeled A, B and C (with C being the front-most), which are described:

    Six Prime ribs, A [11th and 12th ribs] first cut, B [9th and 10th ribs] second cut, C [7th and 8th ribs] third cut. Id.

    The 6th rib is also part of the rib section and can be used as a rib roast, but not a "Prime Rib".

    USDA meat grading
    The first tentative standards for grades of dressed beef were formulated in 1916, and the federal grading of beef began in 1927.

    Conclusion
    The term "Prime Rib" was in common use to mean the best part of the beef rib section, more than 25 years before the first use of the "Prime-Grade" designation by the USDA.

    Related information
    Harris, J.J., H.R. Cross, and J.W. Savell (Department of Animal Science, Texas A&M University). "History of Meat Grading in the United States". November 30, 2001.

    This sure opened my eyes!

    John
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    seafarer john
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/05 21:28:30 (permalink)
    Rib Dog et.al. : BBQers do not do Prime ribs - that would be one hell of a waste of great meat. So who cares what the California BBQ Association has to say on the subject. BBQrs might do a standing rib roast in their smokers and I'll bet it's great - but it would be one Hell of a waste to use "Prime" in that technique - a technique designed to tenderize less tender cuts of meat.

    Delmonico's and chef Ranhofer are long gone and so is their definition of "Prime Ribs". Your history lesson is impressive, but it is just that - History. The modern definition, dating from about 1928 is that Prime Ribs are selected from the USDA graded beef - "Prime Grade". Ribdog was correct in his first statement , that anything other than "Prime" graded beef is a "standing rib roast" by modern definiotion.

    I might also add that I am sure Delmonico's aged all their beef, and as long as it was of at least "choice" quality by modern definition the ageing gave the beef tenderness and great taste. If I could get aged
    choice grade rib roast I'd no longer have to chase around trying to find
    Prime for the Holidays. And, if any of you out there can give me explicit directions for safely ageing beef at home ( without investment in a walk-in meat locker with high tech temperature and humidity controls) I'd be most appreciative and would give it a try this winter.

    #13
    RibDog
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/05 22:12:12 (permalink)
    Well, I think there is one you are not considering Seafarer. Just because I cook a ribroast in my smoker, whether it be prime or choice, I cook the roast at the same temps I would cook it in a kitchen oven. No low and slow for rib roasts. I cook mine at 350* until I hit internal temp of 118, take the roast and the water pan off of the smoker and run the vents wide open to get the smoker straight up to 450* and put the roast back on for a very quick outside sear. Finished internal temp will be 125 to 130. I do agree that no one should cook a rib roast at standard "smoke" temps. That would just be wasteful.

    John
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    CheeseWit
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/05 22:19:42 (permalink)
    Mayor, I agree with you 100%. It's a pet peeve with me too. I laughed when I read your post. I was thinking about writing a similar post.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Al-The Mayor-Bowen

    This probably belongs on a "Pet Peeve" thread, but it fits here too. I am tired of every restaurant bragging on a "Great Ribeye Steak". it seems that most of the those Ribeyes are not Ribeye, but the whole Rib Steak including a large piece fat and the 'cap' or top layer of less attractive and less tender beef. When done as a slice of the rib-roast It is a tasty addition...but when broiled as a steak it is NOT as attractive, and tasty/tender as the real rib "eye" is. Yet the price remains high. I consider the Ribeye lable to be false advertising on the part of the places who do mislead us poor consumers.
    #15
    Hillbilly
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/06 08:40:38 (permalink)
    The best prime rib I ever had was at "SLUG'S RIB" on Independence Blvd in Charlotte, NC. Slug Claiborne opened up several other "Slug's" restaurants across town (including one on top of the First Union tower) with varied menus, but the first one on Independence at Albemarle served only fantastic prime rib.
    #16
    mek
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/06 10:26:35 (permalink)
    When in Baltimore, go to The Prime Rib. I believe they opened in 1965. Consistently the best, despite the arrival of Ruth Chris, Morton's, Fleming's, etc.
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    seafarer john
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/06 18:34:07 (permalink)
    Ribdog: I bow to your superior technique on the smoker - your recipe sounds great, but i wont attempt it here in the Hudson Valley on December 24th when i am craving the warmth of the fireplace not the chill of the patio.
    #18
    redtressed
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/06 19:53:02 (permalink)
    I positively hate going into the fancier chain places and see what they usually come with as "prime rib", most looks more like a slice of eye of round. My favorite place to indulge in prime rib is a place outside of Cumberland, Maryland on I-68 called JB's Steak Cellar, which lies under a family type place on top, Mason's Barn.
    The Prime there is truly prime.....aged and all.....and you watch them cut your portion off a large spit. It ALWAYS fills your French White dinner plate and lops over the edges. And they KNOW it's sacrilege not to offer horseradish cream and Yorkshire Pudding by it's side. Another eccentricity of theirs I just love is the opening offering of crusty bread loaves surrounded by huge heads of roasted garlic......as spread instead of butter. The price is right there also...A 6 oz prime, with salad, 3 sides, bread runs about 7 dollars. They also offer the best of confections such as Beesting Cake, Rum Cake, cheesecakes from Philly, Mississippi Mud et al.
    #19
    RibDog
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/07 08:45:05 (permalink)
    Seafarer: No reason to bow. I think we all know that there are always many different ways to cook a piece of meat. I just really like mine with the taste of hardwood charcoal and hickory every once in a while. If you ever want the full recipe, let me know and I will post it.

    John
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    baybey
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/07 10:09:36 (permalink)
    To reply to the initial post searching for a great prime rib place. The best to my mind is Kreis just west of St.Louis. They specialize in prime rib and serve up a humongous cut that is 2 ribs thick and almost looks like a cake (of meat) on the plate. Other diners turn and stare as it is brought through the dining room. An unforgetable meal
    #21
    lleechef
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/07 16:44:39 (permalink)
    redtressed,
    What is Beesting cake??? Sounds dangerous. " />
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    Oneiron339
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/07 17:09:00 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by seafarer john

    Rib Dog et.al. : BBQers do not do Prime ribs - that would be one hell of a waste of great meat. So who cares what the California BBQ Association has to say on the subject. BBQrs might do a standing rib roast in their smokers and I'll bet it's great - but it would be one Hell of a waste to use "Prime" in that technique - a technique designed to tenderize less tender cuts of meat.

    Delmonico's and chef Ranhofer are long gone and so is their definition of "Prime Ribs". Your history lesson is impressive, but it is just that - History. The modern definition, dating from about 1928 is that Prime Ribs are selected from the USDA graded beef - "Prime Grade". Ribdog was correct in his first statement , that anything other than "Prime" graded beef is a "standing rib roast" by modern definiotion.

    I might also add that I am sure Delmonico's aged all their beef, and as long as it was of at least "choice" quality by modern definition the ageing gave the beef tenderness and great taste. If I could get aged
    choice grade rib roast I'd no longer have to chase around trying to find
    Prime for the Holidays. And, if any of you out there can give me explicit directions for safely ageing beef at home ( without investment in a walk-in meat locker with high tech temperature and humidity controls) I'd be most appreciative and would give it a try this winter.


    Seafarer Alton Brown did an aged beef standing rib roast show where he demonstrated how to age the roast in his frig in a plastic container. You may check the Food Channel.com for the exact details but it looked pretty easy.
    #23
    seafarer john
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/07 17:33:03 (permalink)
    Thanks Ribdog, yes, I'd like the recipe, I'll pass it along to my son who is becomming a master at the smoker (Big Green Egg) and hope that sometime he'll do it for us.

    And, thanks One Iron, I'll look into the alton Brown thing- he's quite a genius at improvising ways that really work well...
    #24
    Rick F.
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/07 18:12:33 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by seafarer john

    I am not familiar with the widely advertised mail order sellers of Prime beef, does annyone out there have experinece with any of them?
    I've shopped at[url='http://www.lobels.com']Lobel's[/url] and been very happy with the results. Their meat is dry-aged and never frozen. Their meat is also (sigh) very expensive.
    #25
    redtressed
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/07 19:10:29 (permalink)
    Beesting cake is actually of German origin, original name being "Bienenstich" There are several variations of it including a rum one, Chocolate one etc, but the key ingredient in any Beesting Cake is honey. Here's a very good recipe for it found on ALLRECIPES.com that sticks to the original very well.


    BeeSting Cake

    Ingredients


    2 (.25 ounce) packages active dry yeast
    1/4 cup warm water
    3/4 cup unsalted butter, softened
    3/4 cup white sugar
    2 eggs, room temperature
    3 egg yolks
    1/2 teaspoon salt
    1/2 cup warm milk
    2 teaspoons vanilla extract
    1/2 cup sour cream, room temperature
    4 cups all-purpose flour
    2 tablespoons unsalted butter, melted

    2/3 cup packed light brown sugar
    6 tablespoons unsalted butter
    3/8 cup heavy whipping cream
    3/8 cup honey
    1/4 cup lemon juice
    5/8 cup sliced almonds

    2 cups pastry cream


    Directions
    1 Combine the yeast, and the warm water; set aside to proof for 5 minutes.
    2 Cream 3/4 cup butter and sugar until light. Beat in the eggs and yolks one at a time. Add the vanilla, milk, sour cream, and yeast. Beat until smooth. Add the flour a little at a time to form a soft dough. Add all of the flour, and continue to beat until elastic, about 8 minutes. Place dough into an oiled bowl, cover and place in a warm spot until doubled in size, about 50 minutes. Can be placed in the refrigerator overnight instead.
    3 Beat down the dough, and divide into two pieces. Place each in a buttered 9 inch square pan. Brush the top of each with 1 tablespoon of the melted butter. Cover and let rise until doubled.
    4 For the glaze, place the brown sugar, 6 tablespoons butter, cream, and honey in a saucepan over medium heat. Bring to a boil, and stir until the sugar dissolves. Boil for 30 seconds. Remove from heat; add the lemon juice and almonds. Let cool slightly. Drizzle the warm glaze, not hot, over each of the cakes.
    5 Bake at 375 degrees F (190 degrees C) for 30 minutes, or until the nuts are golden. Cool on a rack.
    6 Split the cakes lengthwise using a serrated knife, and fill with the pastry cream. Sandwich cakes back together and serve.

    Pastry Cream:

    Ingredients


    1 cup milk
    3 egg yolks
    1/2 cup white sugar
    1/4 cup all-purpose flour
    1 tablespoon butter
    1 tablespoon vanilla extract


    Directions
    1 In a small saucepan, Heat milk to boiling point and remove from the heat.
    2 In a heatproof mixing bowl, beat egg yolks until smooth. Gradually add the granulated sugar and continue beating until pale yellow. Beat in the flour.
    3 Pour the hot milk into the egg yolk mixture in a steady stream, beating constantly. When all the milk has been added, place the bowl over (not in) a pan of boiling water, or pour the mixture into the top of a double boiler. Heat, stirring constantly, until thickened. Cook 2 minutes more, then remove from the heat. Stir in the butter and vanilla. Cover with plastic wrap and allow to cool.



    Makes 8 servings


    It's delicious, rich and as sinful as they come



    #26
    RibDog
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/07 22:13:40 (permalink)
    Here you go Seafarer:

    On the night before you want to cook the roast, take the roast and rub it down with Worchestshire. Then sprinkle fairly heavily with McCormick's Montreal Steak Seasoning. Wrap the roast in plastic wrap and pop it in the fridge for the night. The next day, take the roast out about three hours before you plan to pop it in the smoker and pack the two ends of the roast with finely ground rock salt or kosher salt. Put the roast back in the fridge. About one hour before cooking, take the roast out and leave on counter to warm up some. Put the roast in a smoker running anywhere from 275* to 325*. If you are shooting for medium rare, cook the roast until you reach an internal temp of 118*. If you can, use a Polder thermometer so you don't have to keep opening the smoker to check the roast. When it hits 118*, take it out and cover with foil. Then open all the vents on the smoker and run it up to 450-500 and pop the roast back in for five minutes. This will give you a little better carmelization on the outside. The roast is now ready to sliced and served.

    BTW, when I cook a rib roast, I use lump charcoal in my smoker along with two to three chunks of hickory. Since your son is already using a BGE, he is use to lump.

    Enjoy.

    John
    #27
    Oneiron339
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/08 08:49:04 (permalink)
    Hey, Rib... about how long (cooking time)for this smoked rib roast, say 4-6 lbs.?
    #28
    seafarer john
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/12 12:48:30 (permalink)
    Our little Village of New Paltz has been blessed for the past 30 years with the best Italian Deli outside NYC, Toscani and Sons. Recently they have expanded and opened a butcher shop as part of the Deli and therein lies the really good news. The butcher has solved my problem of trying to find prime beef and especially aged prime beef. He stocks it all the time. We had a beautiful inch-and-a-half porterhouse ($12 / lb) for dinner last night and are looking foreward to an aged rib roast for the Holidays. We just hope he will get the support he needs from our community to continue to carry such a luxury item all the time.
    #29
    spadoman
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    RE: Prime Rib 2003/10/12 18:26:03 (permalink)
    When I worked as a cook in a resort up-north in Minnesota, we made grilled prime rib steaks. We used a restaurant cut lip on prime rib and cut about one inch thick steaks.
    I put these in a marinade for at least one day, two is better.
    The marinade was made with soy sauce, worchestershire sauce and garlic powder, cut with a little water.
    Then just grilled on a very hot charcoal fired grill, searing the juices in.
    These were a marvelous way to cook prime rib. We did this a lot in Winter and the aroma of the charcoal fired grill in the cold cleab northern air permeated the area, especially when the barometer was in a high perssure mode.
    Makes me think I'd like to get that job back. maybe the Hungry Jack lodge in Grand marais, MN needs a backup cook for the snowmobilers this winter.
    #30
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